COMPETITIVE Brawl+: Code Agenda

[kupo15]

Well, probably not, but there is no reason to make assumptions on something before it's out.

And there shouldn't even have been a debate thread either. Also, this thread is not a HAD debate thread either...

 

[InterimOfZeal]

This is now a SOMEONE PLEASE LORD PLAY ME thread.

No, srsly. D:

 

[Shell]

Exactly. There shouldn't be a debate about using it permanently, just universal agreement to try it out and then judge. The real argument should be how exactly the HAD could function. But I digress...

I heard Almas was going to look into char-specific SH / gravities and such in the next few days. Be excited.

 

[MookieRah]

I heard Almas was going to look into char-specific SH / gravities and such in the next few days. Be excited.

Yah, he is going to work on that tomorrow. I was talking to him about it earlier today on AIM. It's gonna be sweet.

 

[kupo15]

Yah, he is going to work on that tomorrow. I was talking to him about it earlier today on AIM. It's gonna be sweet.

maybe I should ask pw to try the air movement code...its up to Almas though

 

[Shell]

Any update on teching? Last I heard he was considering a custom hook for the teching window.

 

[kupo15]

Any update on teching? Last I heard he was considering a custom hook for the teching window.

nothing yet. He was busy with other non competitive requests from other users so I expect he will work on teching soon

 

[xicsrh]

I remember some people discussing a few times the possibility of hacking non-fast-falled dairs when using the C-stick. Did anyone ever mention the possibility of replacing the C-stick down's smash function with the attack function, but only in the air so that dsmashes aren't affected?

 

[Finns7]

Tbh a better teching window seems like the only major code we need left. O and grab release stuff.

 

[MuBa]

I know my code is a bit more on the hardcore side kupo but think you can post it? I'll get it ready sometime soon.

Edit: This will also give a better idea of what people would prefer.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

Tbh a better teching window seems like the only major code we need left. O and grab release stuff.

Imo air momentum is way more important than either of those. :/

 

[MuBa]

Alright here's MuBa's Code Set. So far imo this version feels very smooth.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=0W7B4YS9

Hitstun 0.4875

0.6 Hitlag

1.35 Fall Speed
1.25 Fast Fall
1.35 Dash Speed
Shield stun X=11 Z=22 Y=5
0.8 Short Hop
Hold SHIELD for Independent Pokemon +no wreck My Music
3/4 Stale Move Modifier
Shortened Power Shield Window



Hope you guys like it!

 

[Makkun]

Since I have the day off school today. (Snow!) I will be updating my SD card pack again with Kupo, Mookie, and MuBa's new sets.

This also means I will be on BB all day.

Also, I want to play some B+! I'm on AIM all day if anyone is interested.

 

[trojanpooh]

Imo air momentum is way more important than either of those. :/

I would agree with this and that we are almost done. All that's left is this and the optional minor changes in the to do list.

 

[Makkun]

I would agree with this and that we are almost done. All that's left is this and the optional minor changes in the to do list.

I also agree. I don't think we need a bigger tech window. I like the fact that it's harder to perform, it makes it that much more important to practice/master.

Edit: It also adds more opportunities for tech chasing and such. <3

 

[trojanpooh]

I also agree. I don't think we need a bigger tech window. I like the fact that it's harder to perform, it makes it that much more important to practice/master.

Edit: It also adds more opportunities for tech chasing and such. <3

I never had a problem with teching but I also am not part of the actual competitive scene, I just play competitively (that is with out items and I do all in my power to win) so I don't really know how important this really is. The more I think about it, I'm not even sure if what I'm talking about is teching. Teching is the thing where you shield before hitting the ground to roll back up quicker right? If this is the case I also don't think we need a bigger window. People have to understand, Brawl is a new game you'll adjust your timing and in a couple weeks/months you'll all laugh at the idea of needing to make teching easier.

 

[Revven]

I would agree with this and that we are almost done. All that's left is this and the optional minor changes in the to do list.

I also agree. I don't think we need a bigger tech window. I like the fact that it's harder to perform, it makes it that much more important to practice/master.

Edit: It also adds more opportunities for tech chasing and such. <3

Thing is, it's very tedious to tech. I couldn't tech AT ALL in my offline matches against my friend SFG (who was CF by the way, you can see three of our matches here: http://www.youtube.com/user/smk2, although the sound is off because I forgot to turn it on D: ) and I was punished for it because all I could do was roll left or right, stand up, or use the get up attack which all of them get pretty predictable over time. And when I DID tech, I got hit, PUNISHED for teching, just the standing tech. In Melee, I don't recall ever getting punished for doing the standing tech, maybe the rolling ones but, never standing because it was so fast.

Most people want a bigger window and I'm one of them lulz. PW is already making the code so, let's see how it turns out before turning it down gais. (Much like with HAD).

 

[trojanpooh]

PW is already making the code so, let's see how it turns out before turning it down gais. (Much like with HAD).

Despite being against a bigger window, I do have to agree with trying any code that is made regardless of how I feel about it, especially because a code I proposed is on the to do list (very low on the to do list but its still there). The more options the merrier.

 

[Makkun]

Of course I will try the code! Haha! I didn't realize how difficult it could really be, and I didn't even think about WiFi. Even if online = lolz

 

[Eaode]

I've learned to tech a lot better in the past few days, but I still think the window needs to be slightly larger. Also, regardless, tech rolls and such need to be faster and/or cover more distance. it's pretty ridiculous that it's so hard to tech and teching is so bad.

 

[Dark Sonic]

@Kupo-your codelist isn't working for some reason.

I copied each code individually, but when I tried them out the No ASL, Halve lag, Independent pokemon, hitstun, and lagless ledges codes didn't work.

 

[trojanpooh]

@Kupo-your codelist isn't working for some reason.

I copied each code individually, but when I tried them out the No ASL, Halve lag, Independent pokemon, hitstun, and lagless ledges codes didn't work.

Did you also take the PW merger code? You need that to use any of the codes you mentioned (I think).

 

[Revven]

I might be able to play B+ online after lunch today... perhaps after I've done some shoveling. So, if anyone wants to play just come to the IRC and we can schedule something I guess.

 

[shanus]

Thing is, it's very tedious to tech. I couldn't tech AT ALL in my offline matches against my friend SFG (who was CF by the way, you can see three of our matches here: http://www.youtube.com/user/smk2, although the sound is off because I forgot to turn it on D: ) and I was punished for it because all I could do was roll left or right, stand up, or use the get up attack which all of them get pretty predictable over time. And when I DID tech, I got hit, PUNISHED for teching, just the standing tech. In Melee, I don't recall ever getting punished for doing the standing tech, maybe the rolling ones but, never standing because it was so fast.

Most people want a bigger window and I'm one of them lulz. PW is already making the code so, let's see how it turns out before turning it down gais. (Much like with HAD).

In melee you easily can get punished for standing teching by falcon, in fact its kind of like some of the bread & butter techchasing of his back then. Teching window & tech speed are fine. Challenge is good, it forces you to focus and if you dont have the skill for it, you get punished.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Did you also take the PW merger code? You need that to use any of the codes you mentioned (I think).

Yes I took the PW merger code (although, his code was only 94 lines (apparently he removed some stuff from it).

edit: I just tried making a new file, and I don't get what's going on. I copied all the codes in the merger section, but my hitstun still isn't working (every other code works fine though).

Is anyone else having this problem?

 

[trojanpooh]

Yes I took the PW merger code (although, his code was only 94 lines (apparently he removed some stuff from it).

edit: I just tried making a new file, and I don't get what's going on. I copied all the codes in the merger section, but my hitstun still isn't working (every other code works fine though).

Is anyone else having this problem?

You aren't changing the hitstun code are you? You are supposed to adjust hitstun through the constants code (I think its 3 lines)

 

[Dark Sonic]

Yeah, I'm using that 3 lines constant code...but I'm still not getting any hitstun.

I tried Mookie's codeset and the hitstun worked just fine, so I guess I'll just edit that one.

 

[Deleted member]

so, does the merger code actually work?

 

[trojanpooh]

so, does the merger code actually work?

Yeah it does he probably just made a mistake copying, happens to everyone at least once.

 

[Deleted member]

^I have to port it to PAL, but I heard some trouble with it so waited awhile to make sure I wasn't wasting my time

 

[CountKaiser]

The teching window feels awkward, to me. AFter a little practice, I noticed that you can't tech right when your character is about to hit the ground, but some small amount of time before that, which is stupid.

In simpler terms, the window to tech, from what I can decipher, is some amount of frames before you hit the ground. However, you can't tech within that number of frames. Say you have to tech 20 frames before you hit the ground. You can't hit the button 10 frames before you hit the ground and expect to tech, nor can you hit it 30 frames before you hit he ground. This feels so incredibly awkward that teching doesn't feel natural.

 

[MuBa]

Merger code is suppose to be 107 lines long, not 106.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Merger code is suppose to be 107 lines long, not 106.

Yeah I noticed that, but the one in the OP says 106 lines. He's missing a line.

And I just noticed that the OP is missing the hitstun code (the one that goes with the merger code) as well.

Kupo needs to fix that.

 

[Almas]

Paprika, if you take a quick gander at most of PW's codes, they tend to function by looping through the players, checking if certain values are equal to certain things and if they are, modifying them.

The merger code merely makes all of the codes operate under the same 'loop', removing a lot of uneccessary lines from most of them. All it does is save lines - the function of the codes themselves is not changed. So you should also be able to just copy/paste addresses from the other codes.

 

[MuBa]

These are the codes I used in my set for hitstun.

PW Merger Code [Phantom Wings, Almas, 107 Lines]

ASM Codes

PW Merger Code
* * 80000000 80623320
* * 80000001 00000000
* * 60000006 00000000
* * 60000003 00000001
* * 4A001000 00000000
* * 4A101001 00000000
* * 32000000 0000001C
* * 025A9310 00000001
* * 32000001 0000000F
* * 025A9312 00000001
* * E2000001 00000000
* * 36000000 00000032
* * 58010000 00000004
* * DE000000 80008180
* * 58010000 00000060
* * DE000000 80008180
* * 92210006 00000014
* * 92210007 00000014
* * 92210008 00000068
* * 92210005 00000070
* * 92210002 0000007C
* * 92210003 00000018
* * 92210009 00000070
* * 9221000A 0000007C
* * 9221000B 00000014
* * 9001000E 00000000
* * 58010000 000000C4
* * 9221000C 00000010
* * 4A000000 805A0100
* * 9221000D 00000000
* * 88A0000C 0000000D
* * 4A00100A 00000000
* * 30000036 00000018
* * 4A00100B 00000000
* * 9221000D 00000040
* * 8890000D 0000000C
* * 9421000D 00000040
* * E2000001 00000000
* * 4800100E 0000007C
* * 30000038 00000074
* * 86000006 00000040
* * 86910006 40000000
* * E2000001 00000000
* * 4800100E 0000007C
* * 30000038 00000005
* * 4A001008 00000000
* * 3400003C BF266666
* * 4A001007 00000000
* * 14000040 4F000000
* * E2000002 00000000
* * 4800100E 00000068
* * 30000154 00000009
* * 1400015C 00000001
* * 14000150 00000001
* * E2000001 00000000
* * 4800100E 0000007C
* * 285A9312 FFFE0001
* * 58010000 0000002C
* * 92210004 00000004
* * 4A001002 00000000
* * C078172C 0000000B
* * 9421FF80 BC410008
* * 3C808000 60841808
* * 80A40008 80C4000C
* * 80E40010 C0060010
* * C026001C FC000840
* * 40810014 890700D4
* * 7108007F 990700D4
* * 4800000C 890700D5
* * 990700D4 B8410008
* * 38210080 4E800020
* * 60000000 00000000
* * 34000038 00000111
* * E2000002 00000000
* * 4800100E 00000008
* * 20001810 0000001D
* * 14017FB0 4F000000
* * 20001811 0000001E
* * 14016300 4F000000
* * 20001811 0000001F
* * 14011124 4F000000
* * E2000001 00000000
* * 4800100E 0000007C
* * 285A9310 FFFE0001
* * 34000038 00000042
* * 36000038 00000049
* * 4A001009 00000000
* * 58010000 00000024
* * 58010000 0000000C
* * 1400001C 00000088
* * 14000018 00000088
* * E2000003 00000000
* * 4800100E 0000007C
* * 30000038 00000073
* * 4A001005 00000000
* * 58010000 00000020
* * 92210005 0000001C
* * 86310005 FFFFFFF7
* * E2000001 00000000
* * 4800100E 0000007C
* * 80100001 00000008
* * 62000000 00000001
* * E200000F 00000000
* * 80000001 00000000
* * 80100000 00000244
* * 62000000 00000000
* * E0000000 80008000

Hitstun [Phantom Wings, 3 Lines]
* C276CCD4 00000002
* C022FFE0 EF7C0072
* 60000000 00000000

 

[Deleted member]

Paprika, if you take a quick gander at most of PW's codes, they tend to function by looping through the players, checking if certain values are equal to certain things and if they are, modifying them.

The merger code merely makes all of the codes operate under the same 'loop', removing a lot of uneccessary lines from most of them. All it does is save lines - the function of the codes themselves is not changed. So you should also be able to just copy/paste addresses from the other codes.

I figured it would be something like that.

 

[Almas]

Just checked - the code in the OP is incorrect. Let me fetch it for you. I am working on adding certain character tweaks to it now (but I noticed some inconsistencies with how the game arranges codes earlier so i'm double checking that it will work).

PW Merger Code [Phantom Wings, Almas, 102 Lines]
80000000 80623320
80000001 00000000
60000006 00000000
60000003 00000001
4A001000 00000000
4A101001 00000000
32000000 0000001C
025A9310 00000001
32000001 0000000F
025A9312 00000001
E2000001 00000000
36000000 00000032
9221000F 00000000
58010000 00000004
DE000000 80008180
58010000 00000060
DE000000 80008180
92210006 00000014
92210007 00000014
92210008 00000068
92210005 00000070
92210002 0000007C
92210003 00000018
92210009 00000070
9221000A 0000007C
9221000B 00000014
9001000E 00000000
58010000 000000C4
9221000C 00000010
4A000000 805A0100
9221000D 00000000
88A0000C 0000000D
4A00100A 00000000
30000036 00000018
4A00100B 00000000
9221000D 00000040
8890000D 0000000C
9421000D 00000040
E2000001 00000000
4800100E 0000007C
30000038 00000074
86000006 00000040
86910006 40000000
E2000001 00000000
4800100E 0000007C
30000038 00000005
4A001008 00000000
3400003C BF266666
4A001007 00000000
14000040 4F000000
E2000002 00000000
4800100E 0000007C
285A9312 FFFE0001
58010000 0000002C
92210004 00000004
4A001002 00000000
C078172C 0000000B
9421FF80 BC410008
3C808000 60841808
80A40008 80C4000C
80E40010 C0060010
C026001C FC000840
40810014 890700D4
7108007F 990700D4
4800000C 890700D5
990700D4 B8410008
38210080 4E800020
60000000 00000000
34000038 00000111
E2000002 00000000
4800100E 00000008
20001844 0000001D
14017FB0 4F000000
20001845 0000001E
14016300 4F000000
20001845 0000001F
14011124 4F000000
E2000001 00000000
4800100E 0000007C
285A9310 FFFE0001
34000038 00000042
36000038 00000049
4A001009 00000000
58010000 00000024
58010000 0000000C
1400001C 00000088
14000018 00000088
E2000003 00000000
4800100E 0000007C
30000038 00000073
4A001005 00000000
58010000 00000020
92210005 0000001C
86310005 FFFFFFF7
E2000001 00000000
80100001 00000008
62000000 00000001
E200000F 00000000
80000001 00000000
80100000 00000244
62000000 00000000
E0000000 80008000

 

[Deleted member]

ok people the official codeset stuff is not making progress at all.
the codes that don't require vatiables are more than likely all gonna be in (except MAD and ofcourse only one lag cancel)
but the main problem are the codes that do need a constant. I think they are best put in these categories:

-movement
down gravity
up gravity
SH height
FF speed
dash speed

-lag and stun
shieldstun
hitlag

-misc
perfect shield mod
buffer mod
(more?)

-hitstun
hitstun


some may argue that hitstun should be put under lag and stun,
but it is the universal value of debate that is influenced by all other codes,
so it should have it's own catergory.

now discussing these by everybody is simply not going to work, so I think it is best we should form some sort of group of people with experience in this, hackers and maybe some reseachers.

 

[Eaode]

Well for now I'll just put my two cents in.

-movement
down gravity: 1.15 I think this is a good value, a good gravity, but not too much
up gravity: 1.1 This is very controversial. I've posted my reasons before but I don't feel like making a long post explaining them again.
SH height: 0.9 maybe 0.95 Shorter short hops combined with Upward gravity makes SHFFLing perfect
FF speed: 1.1 I think mine is on 1.1 now (either that or 1.15). The FF doesn't need to be excessive because we already have more downwards gravity
dash speed: 1.15 I like the increase it gives in speed. It's not absolutely necessary, but it's just fun.

-lag and stun
shieldstun: I'm on 13/22/5 right now. I don't really notice anything weird but if this is too high I'd lower it, I haven't really paid much attention to Shield Stun
hitlag: 60% Works beautifully and still preserves ZSS's Stuns.

-misc
perfect shield mod: 3 Frames. I'm on three right now (might go to 2 but 3 is fine) PS is a viable tactic without being too easy.
buffer mod: I'm on 0 right now out of laziness (it was in the OP's codeset at the time) 0 or 1 I don't really care
(more?)

-hitstun
hitstun: +8.75% I was at nine before, and it was good, but I lowered it just a tad. I feel it's perfect right now.

I have vids up at these values: http://www.youtube.com/user/Eaode

 

[trojanpooh]

ok people the official codeset stuff is not making progress at all.
the codes that don't require vatiables are more than likely all gonna be in (except MAD and ofcourse only one lag cancel)
but the main problem are the codes that do need a constant. I think they are best put in these categories:

-movement
down gravity
up gravity
SH height
FF speed
dash speed

-lag and stun
shieldstun
hitlag

-misc
perfect shield mod
buffer mod
(more?)

-hitstun
hitstun


some may argue that hitstun should be put under lag and stun,
but it is the universal value of debate that is influenced by all other codes,
so it should have it's own catergory.

now discussing these by everybody is simply not going to work, so I think it is best we should form some sort of group of people with experience in this, hackers and maybe some reseachers.

Its true. Unless a group decides upon an official code set, everyone will continue to use their own values. A large but contained group has to decide whats best for Brawl+ (10 to 20 people should be good). To keep the general public happy, a few things could be voted on such as what to do with PT. It also wouldn't hurt to make multiple code sets and then decide as a community which one to use. Maybe make a conservative set, a faster set, and a Melee fast set.