COMPETITIVE Brawl+: Code Agenda

[SketchHurricane]

Kupo, the pages where the files were hosted is now simply a directory tree instead of a page with links. Now you can upload folders as well as files and have them show up. In other words, organize things however you like (Mookie's codes in a folder called Mookie, yours in another, ect.). If you need any help, hit me up on AIM.

I like how the whole "fun speed activate" thing became the slogan of B+. I wonder if I had anything to do with that

 

[kupo15]

Alright, mookie's has been added

 

[Shell]

Thank you.

I'm not sure how I feel about this dual forum thing. I'd rather keep one stickied thread here (FAQ with link to our forums) and commit to the new forums, or set up some sub-forums here. Too bad we have no knowledge or control of the second option.

 

[Eaode]

Brawl+ Matches :d

I've got Fresh Brawl+ Matches up guys!

Eaode (Ike) vs SalokiN (Link) 64% Ike Combo o_O

Eaode (Fox) vs SalokiN (ROB)

Eaode (ROB) vs SalokiN (Peach)

Eaode (Ganon) vs SalokiN (Kirby) Silly suicide match

Eaode (Kirby) vs. SalokiN (Falcon) <-- I get raeped

 

[MookieRah]

A lil bit ago I made a list of characters that I thought needed more knockback to be balanced. In that list I included Mario. I was playing him today, and due to his combo ability and his decent amount of KO moves I think he doesn't need it. If his recovery didn't blow he'd be pretty **** good.

 

[Shell]

MookieRah, have you registered on the Brawl+ forums, yet? You should make a topic there so we can talk about Mario.

 

[Makkun]

I think we actually have a good shot at getting our own subforum!

 

[kupo15]

I think we actually have a good shot at getting our own subforum!

Really? I hope so...

 

[goodoldganon]

If we do get our own subforum we should still limit the HAD v BAD discussion to the other forum in my opinion. I agree with Leaf it was starting to reflect poorly on the community.

 

[grim mouser]

This code merges Lagless Edges, Dash Cancelling,
Triple Jump Glitch, Autosweetspot Ledges, Hitstun and Aerial Lag Reduction codes.
PW Merger Code [Phantom Wings, Almas, 106 Lines]

This says Hitstun is included in the merger... however, the code breakdown doesn't list Hitstun. I'd like to know if it's in there or not before I turn this code on while also enabling my Hitstun code (.975).

 

[zxeon]

If we do get our own subforum we should still limit the HAD v BAD discussion to the other forum in my opinion. I agree with Leaf it was starting to reflect poorly on the community.

Limit? The only reason it reflects badly on the community is because there is this bull**** stigma against Melee and Wavedashing. There is nothing wrong with Melee, or Wavedashing. All of this is keeping us from moving forward and making this game the best it can be.

 

[MookieRah]

The only reason it reflects badly on the community is because there is this bull**** stigma against Melee and Wavedashing. There is nothing wrong with Melee, or Wavedashing. All of this is keeping us from moving forward and making this game the best it can be.

Amen. This is so true.

 

[grim mouser]

I agree. Sucks that I can't fit the 88 lines into my codelist. >.<

 

[shanus]

Limit? The only reason it reflects badly on the community is because there is this bull**** stigma against Melee and Wavedashing. There is nothing wrong with Melee, or Wavedashing. All of this is keeping us from moving forward and making this game the best it can be.

While there is nothing wrong with it, we need people to play it. Unfortunately this strong bias against it is an important factor to remember when trying to build up a player base. Also, the MAD code in its current implementation sucks!

 

[zxeon]

While there is nothing wrong with it, we need people to play it. Unfortunately this strong bias against it is an important factor to remember when trying to build up a player base. Also, the MAD code in its current implementation sucks!

What do you think the whole HAD code and discussion are all about?

To anyone who is going to argue against MAD or HAD: Just remember when you are going to argue about HAD give it a fair chance. Say to yourself "Melee does not suck, and Wavedashing was not evil", then post your opinion.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

I think that wavedashing, no matter what form it is in in brawl will be seen as a negative. If we can prove brawl can be competitive without it, we can make that much stronger of a game. People will be curious as to what we are doing. If wavedashing gets associated with brawl+, it already instills that cloud of doubt above peoples heads that we are just trying to make this into melee 2.0. whether or not this is our goal, that will always be the association.

 

[MuBa]

What do you think the whole HAD code and discussion are all about?

To anyone who is going to argue against MAD or HAD: Just remember when you are going to argue about HAD give it a fair chance. Say to yourself "Melee does not suck, and Wavedashing was not evil", then post your opinion.

I will definitely be open minded about it but I personally think that a regular BAD is fine for this game.

 

[CyberGlitch]

A lil bit ago I made a list of characters that I thought needed more knockback to be balanced. In that list I included Mario. I was playing him today, and due to his combo ability and his decent amount of KO moves I think he doesn't need it. If his recovery didn't blow he'd be pretty **** good.

Well, I'd say his forward air is the only thing that needs increase in knockback, it certainly isn't an easy move to hit with, or to combo into, it should be rewarded with more killing potential like in past games.


Wavedashing immediately brings on the stigma of Brawl+ being Melee 2.0

I found Wavedashing to be a very interesting technique in Melee that tended to balance the game by giving everyone more options. I don't think it is needed at all for Brawl+, my experiences show that it doesn't quite balance characters the same and it feels out of place. I can see why people are strictly against the idea of Wavedashing.


Ultimately, this thing will ideally wash over once a standardized codeset is made with some nice combo videos (highlighting all characters) to show it off. An FAQ for the added techniques and whatnot for the standardized codeset will also be needed (explaining Dash Dancing, Dash Canceling, No Autosweetspot, etc)

 

[zxeon]

I think that wavedashing, no matter what form it is in in brawl will be seen as a negative. If we can prove brawl can be competitive without it, we can make that much stronger of a game. People will be curious as to what we are doing. If wavedashing gets associated with brawl+, it already instills that cloud of doubt above peoples heads that we are just trying to make this into melee 2.0. whether or not this is our goal, that will always be the association.

Then screw the people who don't like it. At some point they'll get tired of VB and come to B+ anyway. It's been almost a year already and I'm done putting up with this. Melee only ever helped Smash. It doesn't deserve this. It's time to end this.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

Then screw the people who don't like it. At some point they'll get tired of VB and come to B+ anyway. It's been almost a year already and I'm done putting up with this. Melee only ever helped Smash. It doesn't deserve this. It's time to end this.

the thing is that it's not necessary. everything we've been adding to the game are important additions. wavedashing doesn't provide anything that we already have.

 

[leafgreen386]

What do you think the whole HAD code and discussion are all about?

To anyone who is going to argue against MAD or HAD: Just remember when you are going to argue about HAD give it a fair chance. Say to yourself "Melee does not suck, and Wavedashing was not evil", then post your opinion.

You realize that most of the biggest melee supporters on this project actually want BAD, right?

Also, could we keep HAD/BAD stuff on BB? I think that and character balance should be restrained there, while we continue to use this thread for a lot of our general talk.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

You realize that most of the biggest melee supporters on this project actually want BAD, right?

not to mention the better players support BAD

 

[zxeon]

the thing is that it's not necessary. everything we've been adding to the game are important additions. wavedashing doesn't provide anything that we already have.

It does provide things we don't already have. DDing and DC are good for opening up mid-range options. WDing works close range and makes all tilt attacks much easier to approach with than DDing and DCing could ever.

This is my view on this. If anyone can put it in better words go ahead. I'm not quite sure what I'm trying to say. For lack of better wording here goes: A moves particular utility should be determined by its effect on your opponent not what animation you're currently in. That's the whole basis of DDing, DCing, JCing grabs, and SHFLing.

I dunno tell me what you think.

 

[zxeon]

You realize that most of the biggest melee supporters on this project actually want BAD, right?

Also, could we keep HAD/BAD stuff on BB? I think that and character balance should be restrained there, while we continue to use this thread for a lot of our general talk.

You realize I could care less? Do you realize that by not giving this a fair chance you could be holding this game back?

 

[goodoldganon]

Ugh I apologize for even mentioning it Leaf...

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

You realize I could care less? Do you realize that by not giving this a fair chance you could be holding this game back?

what would hold the game back more? the loss of an unnecessary technique or a loss of many potential brawl+ players?

 

[zxeon]

what would hold the game back more? the loss of an unnecessary technique or a loss of many potential brawl+ players?

That goes both ways Jiang. Do you think that may people will say "**** that WDing **** I don't like B+ at all!". If they do then at some point they will end up leaving anyway. If it isn't WDing it will be something else.

This is not for the scrubs, johns, or faint of heart. This is Brawl+. This is serious business!

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

Do you think that may people will say "**** that WDing **** I don't like B+ at all!".

YES

why do you think i put that section on wavedashing in the FAQ?? anywho im done debating this.

 

[Shell]

Pssssst.... guys. Take it to the Brawl+ forum.

 

[MookieRah]

I'm sort of indifferent about wavedashing and directional air dodging. Honestly, it wouldn't hurt anything to have it in; however, I'd prefer to use those lines of code for character balancing.

 

[zxeon]

YES

why do you think i put that section on wavedashing in the FAQ?? anywho im done debating this.

Then we don't need them they'll either come around once they've had thier fill of garbage or they won't. You can't win over everyone all at once. Sometimes at takes a while.

By the way. Of all the lines in my last post you decided to quote that one alone? There are much more quotable things in that post.

 

[shanus]

What do you think the whole HAD code and discussion are all about?

To anyone who is going to argue against MAD or HAD: Just remember when you are going to argue about HAD give it a fair chance. Say to yourself "Melee does not suck, and Wavedashing was not evil", then post your opinion.

I think I know that just as well as anyone else. At the same time, if the feel of the Air dodge is as shaky as the MAD code felt, I will not support HAD. Its all about implementation. Also, while I may accept it, how do you plan to deal with the "new smash blood" (that is non melee competitive folks) overwhelming dislike for wavedashing? Do you want to alienate our player base?

Edit: and don't say they'll turn eventually. I've already recieved just as much negative feedback on other forums as positive about B+ and that is from new and old members alike. If we want to get this project to grow, it needs as much positive rep as possible.

 

[leafgreen386]

Guys! Take it to brawl+ brigade please! And that means you, too, zxeon.

 

[shanus]

Guys! Take it to brawl+ brigade please! And that means you, too, zxeon.

quoted for emphasis

 

[Shell]

Guys, we have a whole thread waiting for you to discuss the Air Dodge.

http://z13.invisionfree.com/BrawlPLUS_Brigade/index.php?showtopic=21

 

[zxeon]

Guys! Take it to brawl+ brigade please! And that means you, too, zxeon.

I have no choice since you asked so nicely.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Sooo... the Brawl+ boards need a WFC forum. I wanna play other people in Brawl+, badly.

 

[storm92]

Sooo... the Brawl+ boards need a WFC forum. I wanna play other people in Brawl+, badly.

That's why we have a Suggestions forum there
: pawnch:

...nothing happens here!!!

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Imma go there and make that suggestion. I'm also going to suggest someone play with me.

Right.

Now.

 

[MookieRah]

Also, while I may accept it, how do you plan to deal with the "new smash blood" (that is non melee competitive folks) overwhelming dislike for wavedashing? Do you want to alienate our player base?

I would not be so hasty to make claims that new people are anti-wave dashing. I would just say that there are just a lot of pro-Brawl players that are very vocal against wave dashing are causing a lot of problems. To say that all of the new guys coming in hate it is a bit much. The only reason there is friction at all is because of the crowd that was opposed to competitive smash focused on wave dashing as the "evils" of using "glitches and/or exploits." It was all dumb.

If you flashback to the melee days, it caused a stir in the beginning, but that was mainly cause people weren't sure of it's usefulness. Once it became standard all you saw was a few scrubs here and there making threads about how it was dumb or an abomination, and they were all either ignored or flamed by the community cause there was no reason to hate on it. The competitive portion of the smashboards recognized it as an important tool, and the guys that weren't so competitive didn't care because it didn't affect how they played.

Seeing how virtually everyone that is working with Brawl+ wants to make it a competitive game, I fail to see why we should eliminate possibilities that could enhance depth to appease to a scrubby mindset. Maybe HAD could implement directional air dodges very well. Who knows. If the code is made we should try it out and test it. Do I think it's necessary? Well, probably not, but there is no reason to make assumptions on something before it's out.