Close, Please, and sticky the official tier list.

[Charlesz]

ICG dishing out the pain.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

I can't post a video about how happy you make me. your better than a bunch of ducks.

 

[Stratocaster]

than a bunch of ducks? wow thats ....really something!

ICG tier please?

 

[metaivan]

marth>sheik in the highest level

 

[KirbyKaze]

ALSO at KK the mindgame was you expected one. I fooled you into fooling yourself. I may suck but i'll mind **** the f*** out of who ever I play against.

I expected more from you.

I'm disappointed.

Oh well.

I guess I got trolled?

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

again that was the mindgame you expected a mindgame welcome to pardox city.

 

[NeutralDamage]

By this logic no one matters but for mango who can he beat armada, m2k, and bottom/low tier masters with? If he can beat all the best bottom tier players with pichu by your logic pichu is better. It's basically mango's list of who he is best as. So EVERYONE get out of the way because mango is like isai of this game. Isai can beat ANYONE with anyone easily and some of those people have been playing just as long and are top players that can try to beat him ALL day.

Mango has retired as far as I know. But before his last tourney, he has proven he could beat everyone with his Jigglypuff, but not everyone with other than that. Last tourney he tried to beat everyone with mario&cpt.falcon and failed. Remember casuals don't matter. And I don't really care about low-tiers. I think there is a good reason why people don't play with them much: they suck. And this is one reason there are only rare people that play these characters at high level anyway since they lower so much your chances of winning.

Seeing how at top level in ssb your logic says

Link=pikachu no one can beat that link or pikachu it's unbeatable. NO ISAI is JUST beyond everyone esle to the point where it's How you play not who you pick nearly as much you ******.

Picking your character is part of the game and part of playing. So how you play is also how you pick, not entirely of it of course, but a part of it. I agree that when someone gets so good he can beat everyone like with every character, then he is the best player of all of the characters and then it would be more difficult from that to tell which characters are the bests. But this isn't the case with Melee, so it's unrelevant to think/discuss.

You can't purely take from the top nor the bottom your a fool if you do. high level should effect this but only small bits like axe with piakchu could place like 5th place at large tournments maining using pikachu like 80% of the time at least. Take a little bit lower high than him to rep pikachu think of pikachu as pikachu not axe. Axe uses mindgames does pikachu use mindgames can pikachu mindgame into approaching by simply picking pikachu? H*** no. mindgames can't be counted in the metagame. Nor can the mental part of the player like adapting and controling rage.

As I said before, just picking some character is never gonna be enough; one still has to make the other choises in his game wisely if one is going to win. And by these I mean the choises which takes place during the actual battle. And yes I do think the characters should be looked for the highest level of play possible. But I agree that some characters are just not played enough high level for us to make reasonable decisions how good those characters are. But I still think going by the highest level play is better than trying to speculate how good they might become in the future and stuff. It is just so much speculation and NOBODY can ever know the answer to that.

Also in ways yes who you play as picked you. Pichu perfectly fits HOW I play and want to play you could say fox is better but my pichu would still be better even if I played as fox just as much, why? pichu flows amazinly to me like comapreing how you many flow as yoshi but you won't flow like that as puff. I like camping a lot as pichu but fox bores me when I camp as him just because it's better doesn't mean it's better for me.

Pichu chose you? xD. And you're calling me a ******? xD. Haha. But seriously, I think you're logic of determining tier list is more of speculating what might happen or what it might be in the future without looking the evidence so much, when Im just trying to look at the only real evidence we have(the tourney results, sets and used characters) and trying to figure from those what the tierlist should be.

Argh, I hate tierlist discussion, why did I go here again when I promised I wouldn't xD. I'll try to leave it here *_*.

 

[metaivan]

i dont understand why the people think juggs is invencible. ken ***** mango jiggs in 2007 and ok the metagame is more advance and etc but is the same game the game didnt change in one aspect since 2007. if jiggs is so invencible i think like 2003 jiggs had mastered in all the tournaments. the argument that no one discover the effectivity of the aerial movility of jiggs is really STUPID in all of the years of melee (2001) they discover wavedash,how to use master hand and since 2008 jiggs of nothing is the best character. if jiggs have success its because mango and HBOX are very very good.stop made tier list based in tournaments results

 

[EPsilon933]

if jiggs have success its because mango and HBOX are very very good.stop made tier list based in tournaments results

Tournament results do influence our interpretations of who's better than who, but too many only look at 3 tournaments and ignore the other 1,000+ that happen.

 

[CloneHat]

Pichu chose you? xD. And you're calling me a ******? xD. Haha. But seriously, I think you're logic of determining tier list is more of speculating what might happen or what it might be in the future without looking the evidence so much, when Im just trying to look at the only real evidence we have(the tourney results, sets and used characters) and trying to figure from those what the tierlist should be.

The metagame changes. Trends change. The best player used to be a Marth.

That doesn't mean that Jiggs BECAME a better character. The only thing the tier list has to do with popularity/player skill is how much of each metagame is explored.

 

[Ayatsuri_Rinku]

wow, this tier list is really awesome :D
i like the whole bracket deal

 

[hungrybox]

mango can beat H-boxes puff with fox/falco/falcon

Fox Yes.
Falco sorta.

Falcon I doubt...I won the last few MM's against his falcon.

It's all good though. I won the ROM2 MM's, he won the APEX MM's.

We'll get even better by the time ROM3/Pound5 rolls around, if he decides to be active at all.

And I was considering going Sheik or Falco at a national (maybe in pools) but i'm too underconfident lol.

 

[Djent]

****, that's a solid list!

 

[ROMBO69]

Fox Yes.
Falco sorta.

Falcon I doubt...I won the last few MM's against his falcon.

It's all good though. I won the ROM2 MM's, he won the APEX MM's.

We'll get even better by the time ROM3/Pound5 rolls around, if he decides to be active at all.

And I was considering going Sheik or Falco at a national (maybe in pools) but i'm too underconfident lol.

you may have won the mm's but my falcons 1-0 against u in tourney ^_^

also.. What mms did u win at rom2? when i was drunk? u homo LOl

you also forgot to put that IVE only won the tourney matches =D

edit - my falcon mario could beat everyone if i cared ^_^


Also

Marth
Sheik
Fox
Falco
Puff/Peach
Falcon

Is a way more accurate tier list

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Fox Yes.
Falco sorta.

Falcon I doubt...I won the last few MM's against his falcon.

It's all good though. I won the ROM2 MM's, he won the APEX MM's.

We'll get even better by the time ROM3/Pound5 rolls around, if he decides to be active at all.

And I was considering going Sheik or Falco at a national (maybe in pools) but i'm too underconfident lol.

What is your opinion on Jiggly's tier placing, hbox?

 

[n1000]

And I was considering going Sheik or Falco at a national (maybe in pools) but i'm too underconfident lol.

You're so good at capitalizing/getting those crucial hits, moves that lead into rest are equivalent to starting up combos with sheik/falco that I bet you could find success with either of those characters.

You should own a few scrubs with secondaries and shut the haters up!

 

[rhan]

jiggly "supposely destorys" sheik (which i disagree.. i give it 50 to 50 or 45 to 55 sheik) and she definitely does better on fox than sheik does and does better on falco.

Oh cool. You put it into nice big letters.

She might do a little better on them. But Sheik wrecks all other characters that Jiggs can't handle.

 

[Zodiac]

Link needs to go above luigi and dk, jiggs is one spot to high, other than that pretty good

 

[rhan]

I want to believe that too. He's definitely above DK in my opinion but Luigi has better matchups against the cast then Link does.

 

[cablepuff]

Oh cool. You put it into nice big letters.

She might do a little better on them. But Sheik wrecks all other characters that Jiggs can't handle.

I think you I forgot to put ice climbers.

 

[GreatRit]

Pichu for god tier. lol.

 

[Doc King]

I think Falco and Sheik should switch. Falco is just kindof easy to gimp.

Also, Zelda should be in Garbage Tier, cause she usually gets comboed easily and KO'd easily.

 

[_wzrd]

Solid list IMO, I don't think there is anything on it that I strongly disagree with.

Fox Yes.
Falco sorta.

And I was considering going Sheik or Falco at a national (maybe in pools) but i'm too underconfident lol.

do you enter regional tournaments with either of them?
if you don't, try and stick through one with just one of them (or both, but no jiggs), I think it'd be a great/fun experience.

and it'd be cool to see you try out marf...he has zoning slightly akin to puff (most spacing being ground based) and you can think of the fsmash tipper as a lower risk/reward version of rest ;p
(extremely good killing power, great range, gets punished pretty hard) plus he has a bunch of fun *** edgeguards.

 

[rhan]

I think you I forgot to put ice climbers.

Nah Ice Climbers are in my list. Sheik can go even with them. The matchup isn't completely in IC's favor. There's a minimal disadvantage maybe.

 

[EPsilon933]

Zelda should be in Garbage Tier, cause she usually gets comboed easily and KO'd easily.

She should stay above garbage tier. She doesn't get that easily comboed. Her toe is a really good combo breaker sometimes. If Fox tries to uthrow uair, Zelda can just full DI left or right and toe Fox during his uair. He won't reach horizontally. She can survive a lot of stuff like Peach can (the have the same weight and similar falling speeds), but she gets edgeguarded so easily.

 

[Doc King]

Well, from what I see, whenever a Sheik main becomes into Zelda, Zelda get comboed very fast and easy and Zelda is too slow to change back into Sheik or run awayfrom a Fox.

 

[EPsilon933]

Well, from what I see, whenever a Sheik main becomes into Zelda, Zelda get comboed very fast and easy and Zelda is too slow to change back into Sheik or run awayfrom a Fox.

Sheik players are not always also Zelda players.

 

[Doc King]

I know, but what I'm saying is that Zelda is way too slow to be tourney playable and too weak, making her basically garbage.

 

[llamapaste]

They should be.

 

[EPsilon933]

I know, but what I'm saying is that Zelda is way too slow to be tourney playable and too weak, making her basically garbage.

You really haven't seen her toes. It's stronger than the Knee.

Sheik players should stay as Sheik players. 99% of the time they're Sheik. That makes them Sheik players.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Between various forms of kick walling, f-smash, jab, Naryu's Love, and CC d-smash, Zelda has just barely enough defensive options to not get completely run over by the faster characters [imo].

 

[TheManaLord]

barely. fox falcon and sheik are her worst matchups

 

[ChivalRuse]

I've seen good Zeldas do little with less in those matchups.

 

[Doc King]

Zelda is only useful as a recovery tool, nuff said! XD

 

[Merkuri]

^ There a mid-west Zelda who is like top 5 in the region. She's not useless imo.

 

[exarch]

Icys are too low.

They should be over peach/cf. They've only really got one bad matchup (Peach) who isn't even in the top tier. It isn't even THAT bad of a matchup Icys just like to complain about it like Marths do the Sheik matchup.

Also Roy's hella underrated. Have you forgotten about teh phir3? Minor complaint.

Seriously Icys are too low. Otherwise I can live with the other small disagreements I have.

 

[Doc King]

Look, no character is useless, so lets forget about having a Garbage Tier.

 

[Doc King]

Icys are too low.

They should be over peach/cf. They've only really got one bad matchup (Peach) who isn't even in the top tier. It isn't even THAT bad of a matchup Icys just like to complain about it like Marths do the Sheik matchup.

Also Roy's hella underrated. Have you forgotten about teh phir3? Minor complaint.

Seriously Icys are too low. Otherwise I can live with the other small disagreements I have.

The IC's are very good, I would say right under where Falcon and Peach are.

Also, Roy aint Garbage

 

[exarch]

No they're better than Peach/CF.

They go even with the spacies and marth, slight (slight) edge over sheik. Used to be said vs Jiggs was even, though idk what players think of that matchup now. Lose to peach, beat CF, and wtfrape a large portion of the low tier.

Peach loses to Fox, and generously call the rest of her important matchups even.
CF loses to Falco, and very generously call the rest of the top tier even.

Icys are better because their bad matchup (peach) is worse than the other two (fox and falco).

They have ridiculous damage output, insane grab combos, very good edgeguarding, a projectile which autocancels on landing, good killmoves, a couple of very good aerials, combos outside of grabs, desynchs, and should pretty much never (ever) lose to the vast majority of low tiers.

Above Peach and CF. Whether you leave them in upper or stick them in high doesn't matter much to me, but they're a better character than peach or cf.

 

[Merkuri]

Yeah as he stands now I think Roy is about as good as Mewtwo.

No they're better than Peach/CF.

They go even with the spacies and marth, slight (slight) edge over sheik. Used to be said vs Jiggs was even, though idk what players think of that matchup now. Lose to peach, beat CF, and wtfrape a large portion of the low tier.

Above Peach and CF. Whether you leave them in upper or stick them in high doesn't matter much to me, but they're a better character than peach or cf.

There are a lot of different opinions on ICs match ups but the consensus is that they lose to spacies and at best go even with CF.