Close, Please, and sticky the official tier list.

[Stevo]

I dont think it should be cut down that much

there is like zero insight in that list.
it tells us very little

 

[ryuu seika]

Ok so:

Top
Fox
Falco
Jigglypuff
Sheik
Marth

High
Peach
Falcon
Ice Climbers
Ganon
Samus
Doctor Mario

Mid
Pikachu
Luigi
Mario
Link
DK

Low
Mewtwo
Young Link
Zelda
G&W
Yoshi

Bottom
Roy
Bowser
Ness
Pichu
Kirby

Can't say I'm exactly happy with the size of "High" now but hey, it's what you wanted.

 

[Stevo]

We would have to discuss if any of Samus, Ganon, or Doc deserve to be in Mid instead.

I think Ganon maybe should be top of mid. Has too many bad matchups

<3 Kage

Spoiler

hidden spike summon

what have ganon players said about ganon's placement?

 

[Merkuri]

Roy should be in low, not bottom. He's better than G&W.

 

[Geist]

There shouldn't be the same number of characters in each tier. It says about as much if you were to just list them all from best to worst without bothering to separate them into categories in the first place.
imo high should end at ICs or maybe even Ganon, it seems right to have a chunky sized mid tier with all this madness going on lately.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

when ppl say that pikachu isn't low tier, I always wonder where they wanna put him. Is he better than ganon? Better than IC? Better than DK or luigi? I honestly don't think so. Well, maybe DK.

axe is good. Doesn't mean pika is better than ganon or luigi or even mario.

i still thimk we need to see axe's pika in future tourneys before anyone can decided just how good pika is.

Also i dont think ganon is really that good of character, i agree with something i saw hugs say that ganon is a gimmicky character who is overrated.

Also i can see pika being put above DK and Luigi.

I also yesterday did not get to say that its not just low tiers that are showing more potential in the current meta-game, both peach b/c of armada and sheik b/c of amsah i believe show that the character has room to improve. Armada is the first person imo to truly show what peach can do (but atm i think peach is perfect were she is in the tier list) As for amsah he shows how sheik should be played, we are spoiled by her down throw being so great it made our sheik development stale but since she is nerfed in the pal version amsah is able to use her full potential better b/c he does not relie on the d-throw crutch (imo sheik is still top tier without a doubt)

(sorry if this is poorly written but i am in a hurry and need to get to class)

 

[KAOSTAR]

~TOP~
Fox
Falco
Puff

~HIGH~
Sheik
Marth
Peach
Falcon

~UPPER-MID~
Ice Climbers
Samus
Doctor Mario
Ganondorf

~MIDDLE~
Luigi
Pikachu
Mario
Link
Donkey Kong

~LOWER~
Mewtwo
Zelda
Young Link
Game & Watch
Roy

~BOTTOM~
Yoshi
Bowser
Ness
Kirby
Pichu

I think yoshi may move to low. zelda and yl may move above mewtwo. pikachu may be below mario. ganon might be above doc. but doc seems more solid imo.

@Sveet-I'd be down for discussing that **** you was sayin.

 

[Stevo]

My opinion

~TOP~
Fox
Falco
Puff

~HIGH~
Sheik
Marth
Peach
Falcon
Ice Climbers(not sure but with wobbling I think could be)

~MIDDLE~
Samus
Doctor Mario
Ganondorf
Mario
Pikachu
Luigi
Donkey Kong

~LOWER~
Link
Young Link
Mewtwo
Zelda
Game & Watch


~BOTTOM~
Yoshi
Roy
Bowser
Ness
Kirby
Pichu

 

[ryuu seika]

I don't know what others thing but I like that Stevo. My only worry is that Link and Y.Link are a bit too close together.

 

[G.L.]

no way are samus and doc in the same tier group. there just needs to be more groups but hboxs list is pretty good IMO

 

[h!tboxexplo!ter]

This is what I think it should be

Fox, Sheik, Puff, Falco, Marth

/agreed

followed by cf, peach, icies, ganon, samus, doc, idc

 

[ryuu seika]

needs to be more groups

You people are unpleasable.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

I have a question for everyone who says pikachu should be in at leats mid mid tier. WHY??? what's great about him? is it his DD, nair, d-tilt, jolts, grab game, recovery, up-wards kill power or what?

if any of those reason are even PART of why you think pikachu has a reason to be above low tier WHY IS PICHU STILL BOTTOM? You people got to be f***ing me?

I mean some of those things I listed pichu's better at like pichu's nair is better same for movement and grab game and other non listed things.

really think of pikachu using just recovery, nair, jolt d-tilt he'll still be decent and that's most of the moves he uses WTF that's what pichu does frame by frame perfect in fact pichu's nair is better.

This isn't like saying roy should move up like marth because his grab game is just as good or something crazy like that. This is like lets rise this charcter for __________________ but this charcter with some of the same moves but better and worse moves and other SMALL details should go down. WTF both smap the same moves in matches it's ******** to pretend otherwise. Really pikachu should move up but maybe one or 2 spots from a our curent list.

Axe is an amazing player no hate to him but pikachu's tactics really haven't changed and i've disocovered a number of new techs/tactics as pichu never used till recently like using double up-B ibn real matches.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

@Sveet-I'd be down for discussing that **** you was sayin.

http://www.smashboards.com/group.php?groupid=2377

 

[Stevo]

Pikachu is really hard to be good with, which is why it took so long a player like axe to appear, but this doesnt mean he isnt a lot better than pichu.

-Pichu is REALLY light and dies easy, coupled with the fact he hurts himself, this is bad news.
I also dont like pichus up-b, it travels slower, but that might be just me. (besides the 4% damage)
-Pichu has less range, less useful down-b, an up-air that cannot gimp (a BIG aspect to why Pikachu is usable versus spacies) all of pichu's smashes seem less useful (less range, escapable, etc etc.)

Most clone characters have diferent play styles then their counterparts, but Pichu just seems to be a bad version of Pikachu.

Pichu can wall-jump and landing and jumping animations are a bit faster.... anything else?


thats why I put him/her/it last

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

You misunderstand my meaning. both pikachu and pichu have the same flaws they can't take hits and they suck at range pikachu a little less but his grabs kill him. However only pikachu is rised higher.

also pichu has less lag on all landing moves airs, up-B and etc. helps avoid sheild grabs. pichu's sheild is useable. pichu's up-B ha smore options double up-B, landing is safer for him due to lack of lag and wall jumps. Really pichu has a better defnce in the idea of movement, size, less lag , and much harder to hit.

why is pikachu hard to be good with? pichu's different upair and f-smash goes hand in hand vs space animals for combos also down-B it's harder to say which one is better pichu's sets up combos and more damage and junk but pikachu's has more knockback. I've gone kills from thunder combos in pichu dittos as mad as it sounds.

 

[Stevo]

You misunderstand my meaning. both pikachu and pichu have the same flaws they can't take hits and they suck at range pikachu a little less but his grabs kill him. However only pikachu is rised higher.

also pichu has less lag on all landing moves airs, up-B and etc. helps avoid sheild grabs. pichu's sheild is useable. pichu's up-B ha smore options double up-B, landing is safer for him due to lack of lag and wall jumps. Really pichu has a better defnce in the idea of movement, size, less lag , and much harder to hit.

why is pikachu hard to be good with? pichu's different upair and f-smash goes hand in hand vs space animals for combos also down-B it's harder to say which one is better pichu's sets up combos and more damage and junk but pikachu's has more knockback. I've gone kills from thunder combos in pichu dittos as mad as it sounds.

you need to look past your love for pichu.

first of all, avoiding shield grabs isnt THAT important for pikachu because when attacks a shielded opponent

a: grabs
b: crosses over the shield with neutral air (avoiding the shield grab)
c: up-smash or f-smash or f-tilt etc.(not an air move)

2nd, pikachus up-air can lead into combos too, but the most important thing (like I said in my last post) is his gimp.

3rd, the lag on pikachus up-b doesnt matter because he will almost always go for the ledge. Which usually works out well, because his up-b moves faster.

4th, about the smashes, Pikachus increased range with his smashes is really important versus say marth.

basically, if pikachu didnt have those few things, he would be at the bottom too

Although, I could see pichu being better than Kirby or Ness or something.... maybe

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

I argee yeah I love them nairs as for the upar gimp would you argee it's not his Only way gimp them or finish them off at an edge other than MAYbe gannon. his upair isn't like the shine pikachu doesn't have to use a fast mov he can recover unlike fox. He could nair and still easily recover unlike fox.

I also forget about pikachu's ******** f-smash at times it's a very neat move can't clank but maybe with needles but it may just beat them and keep going like pichu's f-smash.

what's your mian reason for moving pikachu up? by a more than like 3 spots?

 

[Jim Morrison]

this list is uneducated and/or ********.

 

[h!tboxexplo!ter]

pichu is the second worst character, and that just will never change. his range sucks, hes light as a feather, the thing damages itself on most attacks.... there is more but theres no need to go on

 

[everlasting yayuhzz]

Pichu > Kirby

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

pichu is better than kirby and MH. I don't think pichu is good just that it's not impossible to win as bowser vs a campy fox.

 

[NJzFinest]

Mewtwo is not better then YLink