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Close, Please, and sticky the official tier list.

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INSANE CARZY GUY

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pichu is better than MH and kirby I swear I hate T0mmy sometimes, he'll post about his results and how he was in finals with pichu and NEVER posts a link or a video. I want some form of solid proof.

so if you believe in him yeah pichu can in fact place i've heard him say he's placed high(like top 4) like 2 times within the year.
 

Doc King

Smash Lord
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No, Pichu can at least juggle spacies and has quick moves, Kirby is complete Garbage. Slow speed while being floaty and a light weight and having very laggy movesets is really bad. :laugh:
 

ShadyMilkman

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pichu is better than MH and kirby I swear I hate T0mmy sometimes, he'll post about his results and how he was in finals with pichu and NEVER posts a link or a video. I want some form of solid proof.

so if you believe in him yeah pichu can in fact place i've heard him say he's placed high(like top 4) like 2 times within the year.
There are lots of videos of T0mmy out there. He's the most mackinest, biggest ballinest Pichu there ever was.
 

INSANE CARZY GUY

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07 isn't todays metagame no one will count it. Even if he still plays and DOES win tournments i'm geussing more than 30 people. some videos could show oh yeah pichu does have a moveset.
 

ShadyMilkman

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07 isn't todays metagame no one will count it. Even if he still plays and DOES win tournments i'm geussing more than 30 people. some videos could show oh yeah pichu does have a moveset.
Sure, alot changes in the metagame in 2-3 years, but skills are skills are skills, and T0mmy has them. His videos from '07 and '08 are as fastpaced and precise as any.
 

INSANE CARZY GUY

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You see the thing is people will disargee with you and REFUSE to listen I argee anti pichu tactics haven't goten any better and pichu improved a litte due to my massive reseachand mastering tech skills most people don't know about like double up-B.

Really I just hate how I work my nuts off to find the smallest things for pichu and no one ever cares and says your dumb and even if kirby's metagame has never nor will ever change and pichu's is slowly getting much better they'll still so oh yeah pichu isn't as good even if you did discover new techs and junk.
 

ryuu seika

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MH has his uses and I'm still not convinced Pichu is more tournament viable than Kirby. Even if he is better on paper, he's purely a worse Pikachu, while Kirby has unique atributes that can give him an edge here and there, even if he is otherwise useless.
 

Merkuri

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T0mmy did some cool things back in the day, but T!mmy did even greater things.

@Lolmaster: you're dumb, lol :laugh:
 

Merkuri

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There are maybe a handful of low tier players capable of beating Armada's Kirby. The thought that Pichu > Kirby is laughable.
 

j00t

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GnW should atleast be above Ness. I dunno about Yoshi though, that dinosaur is beast
 

Merkuri

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^^ There are Vids of it on youtube in various low tier tournaments. I didn't hear anything, I saw it. Mad good.
 

N.A.G.A.C.E

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ok the list is not bad but imo needs a few adjustments.

for one i say combine top and high and i am not sure if falco should be above sheik. and i still think both sheik and marth should be top tier

2nd b/c high and top are combined move every other tier name up so this makes upper high, middle middle upper, low mid, bottom low, and garbage bottom

Roy may not be good but with his range alone i dont think he should be at the very bottom or if he is at the bottom at least he should be the top of bottom
 

Jimbo Slice

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I've seen a lot of people say Sheik should be above Falco or that they're iffy on Falco being higher. Could some of you guys elaborate? Just curious on your reasoning.
 

N.A.G.A.C.E

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I've seen a lot of people say Sheik should be above Falco or that they're iffy on Falco being higher. Could some of you guys elaborate? Just curious on your reasoning.
well i am not a very good writer nor am i a top lvl player so i am not really the person to take on the task of elaborating but i will try to do so a little bit but i could get things wrong.

for one falco is so easy to gimp its kinda a joke, while sheiks recvoery might not be the best its still has a better chance of surviving then falco's imo

2nd if you look at the match up chart sheik has overall better match ups

next if you look at recent large tourneys were the best falco and the best sheik main both played, which would be pound 4: the sheik placed higher which to me shows that at the highest lvl of play sheik is better (i know this is a arguable statement b/c of different factors such as who they played or if you need to look at more then just the top player or the the top 5 players to see how the character does in most hands etc). but seeing how this list seems to take into account the top player for a character which is why i would assume both mewtwo and pika moved up. Also imo the best sheik is amsah while the best falco main i am guessing is zhu but i am not sure so if people want to voice their opinion here i'm open to suggestions

there are more reasons but as i said i am not a very good writer and i am sure people will find faults with what i already wrote so i am going to stop here for now and wait for responses and maybe a more articulate person or a better player to write the reasons for sheik>falco
 

INSANE CARZY GUY

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Pichu *****.
my brother recently picked up sheik in melee and so far I really like the match-up it's like fighting a marth with less range, easier to deal with attacks, harder punishment, less moves, worse recovery. mindgames it makes up for chain throwing.

There are maybe a handful of low tier players capable of beating Armada's Kirby. The thought that Pichu > Kirby is laughable.
I'll beat him with pichu let's go KJ64 he'll quit before I land a nair.

his kirby is hella good mango was f***ing around a lot a SD missed wavedashes. Really I wish mango started bair camping him back mario would beat out kirby it's that funny. heck he even got some sweet combos. Mango was trying to be flashly and have fun.

mango refuses to play gay which I respect, but it's just to easy to out gay kirby. or to simply outdo.

kirby can't cut off your options(not counting falco here) really other than maybe tech options if your on a platform you can get off kirby can't keep you up there afraid of giving beaten down. Kirby can't control you other then like 3rd world tech chasing. At the begining of a match what is kirby going to do? is he going to take over stage control,charge up something, create an unpassable wall, projectile at them to limit options? what? NOTHING kirby starts off no control what so ever the space he control is like the hitbox up his up-smash and WD lenght.

He controls next to no space he can't bair camping is pretty s***y DK,sheik, zedla, marios, marth,falcon, gannon, ness(fair), fox, G&W, peach. So when you lose that then WHAT? you took more damage and lost a lot of stage control and your going to be backed into a corner forced to approach with what? fair? CC punish with d-smash not your off the edge now what?


please tell mewhat kirby has going for him? he has 3 good things not compared to himself but to the cast. grab range, duck, up-tilt

most people have better tilts(f-tilt/d-tilt) than kirby but oh wait nair shine is worlds better I can approach and mix-up with it. At least pichu has an approach jolts, nair, fake-outs(countless many), and d-tilt.At least pichu can recovery, at least pichu can combo, at least can control space I start I jolt and take up most of the map and force them closer to the edge and have a bit more control.

If they run away I have projectiles, I can keep up and am near impossible to hit sometimes. At least pichu has a great mix-up that is hard to counter attack all the time. at least it's not as easy to force pichu into a corner.

II'm sorry about the rant but WTF people never give a good reason why kirby is better I play a fairly of kirby and pichu I've studied bioth carefully I don't see why kirby is so much better it should be duh.
 

MalwareDie

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Look, that was a while ago and that was back then when I didn't know what I was talking about. So I'm not like that anymore, I've changed. :bee:
You still have no clue what you're talking about. Little kiddies from all over the world can beat you easily. Anybody who thinks that Marth vs spacies is 70-30 is a scrub of the highest order.
 

CloneHat

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I've played this Kirby vs Pichu matchup. Sure, it may not be on the level of Mango and Armada sandbagging, but I play the matchup quite a bit.

Kirby is too slow. He can never catch Pichu if he hits and runs. His tilts will beat out everything Pichu has if Pichu just stands there and tries to tilt him back. But why would he do that? Pichu can hit Kirby and follow up for more damage, or if he is unsuccessful, he can jump safely away from Kirby's attempted punish with some garbage move. If Kirby shields, Pichu's main approach (nair), will take him behind the shield most of the time. If that doesn't work, Kirby can't do anything but maybe grab, which is more or less useless.

To top it off, Pichu can double jump off the stage and safely nair Kirby's defenseless recovery, while Kirby lacks the tools to pressure Pichu offstage at all.
 

KAOSTAR

the Ascended One
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You still have no clue what you're talking about. Little kiddies from all over the world can beat you easily. Anybody who thinks that Marth vs spacies is 70-30 is a scrub of the highest order.
it only means they are wrong. or they are really good at marth or really bad at spacie.
 

INSANE CARZY GUY

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clonehat I need to play it more. I'm not sure about edge gaurd when I played bunbun I never once edge gaurded him other than like f-tilting up-B and grabbing the edge I saw the fairs and I didn't think I could jolt him so I would go off to taunt for the whole set. But if I had a solid idea of what to do I think that would've helped and maybe I would've got more kills. tilt his up-B and nair his jumps? what if he fairs?
 

CloneHat

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clonehat I need to play it more. I'm not sure about edge gaurd when I played bunbun I never once edge gaurded him other than like f-tilting up-B and grabbing the edge I saw the fairs and I didn't think I could jolt him so I would go off to taunt for the whole set. But if I had a solid idea of what to do I think that would've helped and maybe I would've got more kills. tilt his up-B and nair his jumps? what if he fairs?
You could nair his fairs if he is close (drop down and DJ nair), but a smart Kirby might avoid this if they knew what they were doing. You're right in saying fair will stop jolts. The hard hit of nair should beat Kirby's fair but not the weak part. I guess force him to go low then quick attack to the ledge and stop his up B.

Basically, it's not guaranteed but you shouldn't be afraid of Kirby of the stage, just don't do anything too risky or you'll eat a fair. Half the battle is just getting Kirby to give up a higher position relative to the ledge, killing his recovery.

Also did you get matches recorded? The only matches I see on YT are Tommy vs. Timmy
 

Merkuri

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I've played this Kirby vs Pichu matchup. Sure, it may not be on the level of Mango and Armada sandbagging, but I play the matchup quite a bit.

Kirby is too slow. He can never catch Pichu if he hits and runs. His tilts will beat out everything Pichu has if Pichu just stands there and tries to tilt him back. But why would he do that? Pichu can hit Kirby and follow up for more damage, or if he is unsuccessful, he can jump safely away from Kirby's attempted punish with some garbage move. If Kirby shields, Pichu's main approach (nair), will take him behind the shield most of the time. If that doesn't work, Kirby can't do anything but maybe grab, which is more or less useless.

To top it off, Pichu can double jump off the stage and safely nair Kirby's defenseless recovery, while Kirby lacks the tools to pressure Pichu offstage at all.
What is this? Unless your opponent has a **** projectike(like fox) then having difficulty catching your opponent is never just cuz for a match to be unwinnable. All Kirby has to do is patiently try and capture the Pichu(you assume the Pichu has the life advantage for some reason, which given Kirby better move set is unlikely) if Cosmo can consistently beat Foxes with Zelda(where the speed gap is much greater than Pichu/Kirby) then it's laughable to think Kirby can't beat Pichu.

By the way Kirby's uptilt beats Pichu's nair.
 

Europhoria

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I think you should put G/W on bottom, I don't see him as being as horrible as his garbage tier associates. He has a high amount of priority for that tier area, some decent spacing tools.
 

Dark Hart

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It's rare to see people change. Like skin color.

Only ***** that did that **** was Micheal Jackson.

Edit: Young Link's better than Zelda. Idgaf if Mewtwo's higher or lower though. He'd stuill get wreck by YLink.
rhan, I love you dawg, but for real

Zelda > Mewtwo and Y.Link dude.
 
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