Close, Please, and sticky the official tier list.

[Winston]

luigi should be moving on up if u ask me

Currently there's no reason to say that he's better than Mario/Pika/DK. Maybe there will be in the future if Luigi players step it up and develop the character more, but right now that tie is pretty accurate

 

[EPsilon933]

I miss UsurperKingZant's Fox, I wish he would play him more.

Waht? Please explain. I just got here and I have no clue about anything at the moment.

 

[Stevo]

DK should be lowered to not be = to luigi/mario/Pika

because DK is terrible versus spacies and has trouble with peach, jiggs

only decent matchups are falcon marth for the higher tiered characters.

 

[KAOSTAR]

i feel yoshi has low tier potenital. jsut ask vectorman. luigi should be moving on up if u ask me

ICG thinks pichu has mounds of untapped **** waiting to be unleashed.

you gotta start releasing some of it to be moving people up. feelings suck as evidence.

 

[BEES]

Roy's about as tournament viable as Yoshi or Ness.

On paper, Ness looks worse to me than the other two.

ICG thinks pichu has mounds of untapped **** waiting to be unleashed.

you gotta start releasing some of it to be moving people up. feelings suck as evidence.

A tier list acknowledges untapped potential. Otherwise it would be the exact same as the character ranking list. ICG can't serve as a strawman against theory-based arguments, because we clearly don't know everything about the low tiers and bottom tiers. We know what their flaws are, and that's why they're very underutilized characters, but now that people have stepped it up with Pikachu and Mewtwo (who we wrote off as worse than Pichu at one point), we can speculate what that kind of talent could do for other low tiers.

 

[bossa nova ♪]

dont forget zelda


cosmo's puttin in work



**** zelda though srsly

 

[TheManaLord]

You don't wanna goooooo!



When's that? I can try. I got fam in NY.

november 20-21st

europeans and west coast comin its gonna be the biggest rom yet

 

[rhan]

That's possible for me. I justr need to convince niiggas in my area to drive... lmao

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

I second this. Also, Pichu is a much better edgeguarder than kirby, unless the opponent is recovering right below the stage. He just gets there faster.

really it was depends on who your fighting for sheik, puff, marth, falco/fox(b-throw to death any percent), falcon, gannon, zedla, m2,pichu,and pikachu pichu is better ay edge gaurding and setting up and etc. even at low percents. mario/dr.mario I would think kirby and pichu are even.

but pichu's b-throw gimps, f-smashes raw power/time it lasts , great recovery so if they counter you you will still recover, and jolts make pichu's pretty nice. kirby's tilts aren't any better than pichu other than maybe somepeople with massive sweetspots like ness but really grab the edge and bair. pichu's 2nd jump goes higher faster so his bair covers more options faster and is just as hard to beat as kirby's bair. but pichu's iis longer lasting. what's nice about kirby's is dair and sometimes suck up is a last ditch plan. other wise pichu's is better.

oh maybe kirby's up-B could be used with space animals like how I use pichu's side-B to **** their side-B

 

[RockCrock]

Samus is probably the most over-rated character in the game. Ganon and Doc should be above her, no doubt.

 

[Stevo]

yea I agree, who does well with samus besides hugs? and even he cant do better than most good doc and ganon players (in tournament)

 

[1048576]

Pichu's fsmash duration is deceptive. You don't want to hit with the beginning, since then they just sdi and punish. It basically lasts a fair bit of time, but has a really high startup.

Also lolwut about side-B. If I saw you charge that thing for any length of time I'd just sweetspot and watch you send yourself off the stage.

 

[Merkuri]

Samus is probably the most over-rated character in the game. Ganon and Doc should be above her, no doubt.

Ganon should definitely be above Samus. I'm not so sure about Doc though, I think they're tied.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

Pichu's fsmash duration is deceptive. You don't want to hit with the beginning, since then they just sdi and punish. It basically lasts a fair bit of time, but has a really high startup.

Also lolwut about side-B. If I saw you charge that thing for any length of time I'd just sweetspot and watch you send yourself off the stage.

yeah i know pichu's f-smash but it'ss nice to have extra time I do time it to only hit during the end. also HAHA at you trying to sweetspot and stay on the edge. Because that's a way I deal with people on the edge I side-B them and they plan to sit there and wiat to edge gaurd me and a funny thing happens pichu's side-B lasts much longer than anyone knows so he still has his hitbox out when he is falling and looks safe same for luigi and they may lose their 2nd jump and its pretty easy to gimp them from there. people don't know much about pichu's side-B so they normallu think a lot of things are very safe vs it like puff's rollout fully charged loses to non-charged side-B.

 

[ShadyMilkman]

yea I agree, who does well with samus besides hugs? and even he cant do better than most good doc and ganon players (in tournament)

Recently saw a vid of a fella named Rat who looked mad solid for srs. I also heard Phanna is pretty okay.

 

[S l o X]

Ganon should definitely be above Samus. I'm not so sure about Doc though, I think they're tied.

Really? I feel Doc is a LOT better than Samus. I would list reasons why but Doc basically has everything over Samus. The only thing Samus probably has over Doc is her defensive / camp game and even that is ehhhhhh. Projectile camping for her is all she has over him. Doc > Samus at gimping. He gets off when he gets a grab. I think he does a lot better against both higher and lower tier characters. Samus is just a bunch of gimmicks. Once you overcome them then you'll be fine. Unless you're being completely outplayed.

 

[Merkuri]

Really? I feel Doc is a LOT better than Samus. I would list reasons why but Doc basically has everything over Samus. The only thing Samus probably has over Doc is her defensive / camp game and even that is ehhhhhh. Projectile camping for her is all she has over him. Doc > Samus at gimping. He gets off when he gets a grab. I think he does a lot better against both higher and lower tier characters. Samus is just a bunch of gimmicks. Once you overcome them then you'll be fine. Unless you're being completely outplayed.

In a nut shell what it comes down to is that Doc has better offensive options, while Samus has a better camping/defensive game and a much much better recovery. I think that killing power kind of takes top priority, but Samus' ability to camp effectively and break pressure, as well as her weight and recovery break them about even. Please remember than next to Puff Samus may very well be the second most difficult character to edge guard.

 

[rhan]

Samus is probably the most over-rated character in the game. Ganon and Doc should be above her, no doubt.

Ganon and Doc are the most overrated characters in the game. Next to Jiggs.

yea I agree, who does well with samus besides hugs? and even he cant do better than most good doc and ganon players (in tournament)

I agree with HugS

Recently saw a vid of a fella named Rat who looked mad solid for srs. I also heard Phanna is pretty okay.

Rat's legit. Along with IHSB and Watty.

Phanna is poot.

 

[Niko45]

Really? I feel Doc is a LOT better than Samus. I would list reasons why but Doc basically has everything over Samus. The only thing Samus probably has over Doc is her defensive / camp game and even that is ehhhhhh. Projectile camping for her is all she has over him. Doc > Samus at gimping. He gets off when he gets a grab. I think he does a lot better against both higher and lower tier characters. Samus is just a bunch of gimmicks. Once you overcome them then you'll be fine. Unless you're being completely outplayed.

Nah, Samus is thoroughly good defensively. Playing a defensive game seems gimmicky but look at Armada's peach if you question the viability of that playstyle. Samus is like a bad Peach. Great defensive counter-attack options, but not much pure offense. Luckily she lives an eternity to make up for this lack of offense. Doc on the other hand dies quickly, and his offense isn't THAT great (better on some characters than others), although he does have a decent defensive game of his own. Doc is probably better against the tip top characters (falco/fox/puff) but hard to say who is better overall imo. I might also lean doc, but it's close.

 

[HugS™]

yea I agree, who does well with samus besides hugs? and even he cant do better than most good doc and ganon players (in tournament)

I rarely underperform the Ganons and Doc's in tournament. Wtf is your source?

There's no ganon or doc who has ever achieved better overall results than my Samus has. You can find maybe 1 or 2 tournaments at best. That's it.

If anything Ganon is overrated. Doc is fine.

You ganon's love to s*** on Samus because she's like your only good match up against a character that's rated higher, MAYBE IC's.

So good job, you got a possible match up advantage on Samus and IC's. How do you fair against Falco, Fox? The two most popular characters in the game today. Certainly not better than Samus. You'll get ***** harder by Sheik too. So your results will rarely, if ever, be on par with the best Samus players. You'll always get **** on by a fox/falco in the bracket.

Ganon is a gimmicky character, I've been firm on that stance for years now. Have you seen a Ganon get overwhelmed? It happens so often. You'll see them getting 2 hits in max, and you'll be thinking "Didn't this ganon just **** the last dude he fought?". A classic sign of a gimmicky character. Ganon is trash, below Samus and Doc guaranteed.

 

[Kyu Puff]

i thought kage beat mango or something

 

[HugS™]

i thought kage beat mango or something

"Have you seen a Ganon get overwhelmed? It happens so often. You'll see them getting 2 hits in max, and you'll be thinking "Didn't this ganon just **** the last dude he fought?". A classic sign of a gimmicky character. "

The a** beating Kage's ganon got was from the courtesy of Dr. PP immediately after Kage supposedly beat the best player in the world (Mango). Go figure, right?

Either way, that's as good as a Ganon has ever done in tournament. He went on to attain continuously poorer results. My samus has still done better.

 

[Stevo]

There's no ganon or doc who has ever achieved better overall results than my Samus has. You can find maybe 1 or 2 tournaments at best. That's it.

If anything Ganon is overrated. Doc is fine.

You ganon's love to s*** on Samus because she's like your only good match up against a character that's rated higher, MAYBE IC's.

So good job, you got a possible match up advantage on Samus and IC's. How do you fair against Falco, Fox? The two most popular characters in the game today. Certainly not better than Samus. You'll get ***** harder by Sheik too. So your results will rarely, if ever, be on par with the best Samus players. You'll always get **** on by a fox/falco in the bracket.

Ganon is a gimmicky character, I've been firm on that stance for years now. Have you seen a Ganon get overwhelmed? It happens so often. You'll see them getting 2 hits in max, and you'll be thinking "Didn't this ganon just **** the last dude he fought?". A classic sign of a gimmicky character. Ganon is trash, below Samus and Doc guaranteed.

Maybe you have a point, but I see Samus player's get wrecked all the sudden too after they were ****** the last dude he fought.

 

[HugS™]

Who? When?

I know that if I beat mango 2 sets in a row, I wouldn't be getting a** f***ed by lasers the very next match, even if I was fighting the great Dr.

 

[Merkuri]

@Hugs: There is no way to say this without sounding like an ***. But your best results at national tournaments was before 2009. You always place great local/regionally but are you convinced it's something you can replicate at a larger scale? Since 2009 Ganon's have been out placing Samus' at national tournaments, it's notable.

 

[HugS™]

I've only been to 1 national, and it was my worst tournament performance of all time. And you're telling me Kage, Linguini, or Rock Crock would have beaten Tope (Sheik) and SS? Cuz these are the ONLY people you had to lose to in order to not make it out of my pool.

Either way, I already know what the problem is. My results really are better, even my recent ones, I just haven't been to nationals since pound, so Pound is all that people know.
Then, I seemingly have the entire weight of the character on my shoulders. So if you see HugS at 9th, IHSB at 33rd, and Kage, Linguini, and RockCrock at 13th, you just have to feel like Ganon is better, even if I can outplace them.

It's pretty lame, but I'm glad that I alone can keep Ganon ranked below Samus for the time being.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

results aren't always true. compare falcon to sheik. If you are going to base the tier list souly off of one thing it will suck and be wrong. it can't be who's the best. if so pikachu for high tier and m2 for mid tier. WTF???

you have to think about all parts of the metagame how has it advanced, match-ups, high level play not souly who's the best as them, are they strong countered and etc.

straight up pichu is like better than kirby in nearly everyway but the lack of notable pichus(I can name a few great pichu players that currently playbut whatever) kirby's best rep in the US is like lori and SW.

 

[HugS™]

So you're saying that the quantity of good players of a character matters more than the quality of a player's performance when compared to another?

I think relying on the best player of a character is safe. Sure, Axe is amazing with Pikachu, and he ***** foxes and other higher tiered characters. However, Pikachu's position won't sky rocket because, even if he can beat Jman, Jman's performances are still far better. This secures Fox's spot on the tier list, and the rest of the cast holds their ground pretty solidly as well.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

you can't go totally off of one thing but if someone won huge tournments with ness but no one esle could place ness would hop up a small bit but if other people could also do it and didn't suffer from his falws then ness should move up to mid tier. However there are a number of things that would have to be mastered covering flaws and match-ups.

MUs are huge same for covering flaws it's impossible for a few people to cover them all like bowser.

but anyone who want someone moved up purly based off of one reason shouldn't post because whatever they are going to post will be wrong unlike like they found out how cancel rest in 12 frames on any stage and time.

 

[Doc King]

So you're saying that the quantity of good players of a character matters more than the quality of a player's performance when compared to another?

I think relying on the best player of a character is safe. Sure, Axe is amazing with Pikachu, and he ***** foxes and other higher tiered characters. However, Pikachu's position won't sky rocket because, even if he can beat Jman, Jman's performances are still far better. This secures Fox's spot on the tier list, and the rest of the cast holds their ground pretty solidly as well.

It's almost like your saying that no matter what a low tier does, they can't rise up that much!

Now that sounds pretty depressing. Although I do admit that that is somewhat true cause if you campare Tajs Mewtwo and the others, the average Mewtwo sucks in tourney play. But Mewtwo is only Top Tier when Taj plays him.

I have a question HugS, when is the Tier list coming out?

 

[Nø Ca$h]

mbr members get executed if they talk about the mbr

 

[KirbyKaze]

Nah b we just like making suspense.

 

[EPsilon933]

mbr members get executed if they talk about the mbr

So what if you know their secrets and you're not mbr?

 

[KirbyKaze]

It's like knowing Doopliss's real name. We lose some of our powers, but not all of them.

 

[Nø Ca$h]

nothing. i know an mbr secret and i wasnt executed.

 

[BEES]

So you're saying that the quantity of good players of a character matters more than the quality of a player's performance when compared to another?

I think relying on the best player of a character is safe. Sure, Axe is amazing with Pikachu, and he ***** foxes and other higher tiered characters. However, Pikachu's position won't sky rocket because, even if he can beat Jman, Jman's performances are still far better. This secures Fox's spot on the tier list, and the rest of the cast holds their ground pretty solidly as well.

Obviously Fox is in no danger of being ousted by Pikachu, but Axe is clearly doing better with Pikachu than many higher tiered mains do with their more popular characters. So upward mobility to a certain extent is possible.

 

[1048576]

yeah i know pichu's f-smash but it'ss nice to have extra time I do time it to only hit during the end. also HAHA at you trying to sweetspot and stay on the edge. Because that's a way I deal with people on the edge I side-B them and they plan to sit there and wiat to edge gaurd me and a funny thing happens pichu's side-B lasts much longer than anyone knows so he still has his hitbox out when he is falling and looks safe same for luigi and they may lose their 2nd jump and its pretty easy to gimp them from there. people don't know much about pichu's side-B so they normallu think a lot of things are very safe vs it like puff's rollout fully charged loses to non-charged side-B.

If you have to rely on your opponent's lack of knowledge to win, you're using a bad strategy / playing a bad character.

 

[TheManaLord]

I still get up to date screens of MBR activity. PM me for them! but not on smashboards

 

[Doc King]

mbr members get executed if they talk about the mbr

Sorry, didn't know. :embarrass

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

If you have to rely on your opponent's lack of knowledge to win, you're using a bad strategy / playing a bad character.

you make rely on people not knowing what your going to do sometimes even if they know pichu about as well as you. that's why i side-b to mix it all up and make it near impossible to predict. another case there is no rule about not punching someone for wobbling during.

If you pretend they knew everything you'd NEVER take a risk.