Close, Please, and sticky the official tier list.

[KirbyKaze]

Kirby is better than Pichu against Sheik, Samus, Peach, Jigglypuff, and ICs*.

Pichu is probably better against Fox.

I'm not sure how Falco works out. Kirby can SHDL if he sucks him off, but then Pichu can death CG or do a big combo if he gets a grab, and I'm really not sure which one of those things is more likely to happen.

Falcon I'm not sure either, I'd probably give it to Pichu because Falcon's shield game and CC game suck and those are the usual hindrances that Pichu must overcome. He also has a nice CG on some levels (up to decent percents even on Dreamland and BF because of how weak his throw is and how low it sends), and can also combo Uairs into substantial things that setup an edgeguard (Nair --> Nair). But Kirby can duck grabs and U-tilt combo, and comes with some good poking gimmicks. But I don't know, nor do I really care.

* ICs are the same if Wobbling is legal.

 

[KAOSTAR]

Kirby is better than Pichu against Sheik, Samus, Peach, Jigglypuff, and ICs*.

Pichu is probably better against Fox.

I'm not sure how Falco works out. Kirby can SHDL if he sucks him off, but then Pichu can death CG or do a big combo if he gets a grab, and I'm really not sure which one of those things is more likely to happen.

Falcon I'm not sure either, I'd probably give it to Pichu because Falcon's shield game and CC game suck and those are the usual hindrances that Pichu must overcome. He also has a nice CG on some levels (up to decent percents even on Dreamland and BF because of how weak his throw is and how low it sends), and can also combo Uairs into substantial things that setup an edgeguard (Nair --> Nair). But Kirby can duck grabs and U-tilt combo, and comes with some good poking gimmicks. But I don't know, nor do I really care.

* ICs are the same if Wobbling is legal.

I think kirby does better against falco.

having lasers and better tools to gimp falco should make it an easier time than pichu falco.

having the speed isn't needed as much vs falco.

I think kirby has beefier moves that combat better vs falcos aerials.

kirby has grab follow ups and an african **** sized grab range.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Look at Pichu's b-throw then tell me Kirby has better tools to gimp him. Pichu also can fly super far offstage with no warning to hit certain recoveries and has an F-tilt like Pikachu's. Pichu's gimping is fine vs Falco since it's basically Pikachu's just without the Uair. Nair --> Nair/Dair will suffice vs Falco, he doesn't have the hitbox on his Up+B startup that can randomly screw over low priority moves like Pichu's Nair.

Kirby's grab follows are not better than Pichu's, not even close, but Kirby is more likely to get a grab because of the range thing.

Kirby's moves are beefier (namely Bair, F-tilt, and U-tilt), which is good in combat vs Falco's aerials defensively, since he can actually position himself in more than one way to beat Falco's cavalcade of high priority bullshit. I would note that Pichu's Uair is not something to overlook, though.

 

[KAOSTAR]

I pretty much gave kirby grab adv since he was much more likely to shield grab.

also by now I thought falcos would stop running over to the edge lol.

I just think kirby is a bit better suited to combat falco. overall they both suck. but kirby imo has more reliable options.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

KK overall knows what he is talking about. if you b0throw falco he is dead it's THAT simple 2nd jolt f-smash bye bye stock. small note pikachu's b-throw rolls more and has greater knockback not an insane amount but still more. pichu's f-tilt is pretty good for edge gaurd.

pichu can do ANY move he wants vs falco/fox after upair till 60% that or higher you must follow up with dair or nair or another upair. upair combos are **** vs them but you have to add up-smashes and junk to get some damage in there.

Hey KK I would agrue that pichu is better vs puff because puff beats kirby's bairing and I think we could both argee to that. pichu is very hard rest sometimes if puff misses at 25% or huigher any stage=death up-smash kills at low percents if she does land it. and pichu does have a few bread and butter combos. f-throw nair, up-throw dair, nair fast tilt rarely up-smash, projectile is very useful at times like before puff lands and could at least help slow down puff's recovery that and if puff is to high at least thunder will punish puff with like 16%.

also pichu's speed and small size make avoiding puff much easier. also perfect up-B is nice to get around puff's wall if puff trys to trap you. full jop bair is somewhat risky as puff pichu could easily running SHFF upair and regain control so puff can't be to high over pichu.

but vs falco they pretend that the falco knows bith match-ups.

kirby sucks up falco, FF dair shine bair has a decent chance he'll lose the power or die/get edge gaurded. No SDs will work really. but if kirby does get the lasers and has like 1 sec. he'll **** falco and falco's best bet is mindlessly approach and hit kirby as much as he can. kirby just loses horribly till he gets a laser or if the falco isn't pressureing kirby enough.

pichu can deal with the lasers prettty well nice powersheild not to much unlike kirby's but small size forces falco's to aim carefully and that will slow down their lasers by it's self. sometimes jump over them FF upair onto them is great. Also be in falco's face so he doesn't have the room to laser without you being able to run up d-tilt him. once pichu is close enough to stop the lasers the match-up is much easier. nair jab reset f-smash is mad ****. Also full hop jolt helps alot it forces him to stop/take damage and you get more stage control.

really i've played both sides of the match-up IF They know how o fight kirby and don't fall for dumb tricks like SD tactics you won't hav emuch of a problem dealing with falco. he shouldn't have a problem it's easy to fight falco and keep your lasers and beat everything they do. However if they know kirby won't get the lasers and get ***** in every possible way. pichu the only thing worse is it's much harder recover but not unbarealbe.

so if they know what they are doing kirby is super easy mode if not WTF pichu does it much better. Pichu is like fox just because you know to do something agianst one of his tactics that doesn't mean it will work there are many mix-ups/options that aren't uber easy to punish.

but i'll played both match-ups a fair amount. also pichu is better vs marth he can recover and projectile and punish harder plus haveing a good DD is amazing vs marth.

wait CCing ***** pichu??? maybe if they're peach maybe ice climbers. Really nair doesn't have much of a porblem with CCing with good spaceing. fair does but yeah.

 

[KAOSTAR]

»__«

ICG

pichu is tied with kirby for bottom. you have proven your case. pichu doesn't suck any more than kirby.

but kirby is better

 

[1048576]

I'm not seeing how Kirby is better against Samus. Where is Kirby getting kills from? At least Pichu has an upsmash.

Also, I love fighting falcons with Pichu. Falcon's grabs lead to techchase, which is still bad, esp. vs. Pichu, but its better than a long auto-combo. Pichu gets the benefits of both combos and gimps, something Kirby still can't take advantage of.

And Jiggs is horrible for Pichu. I played against Raistlin and got 3 stocked. Racking up damage isn't so bad, but killing is really difficult (Raistlin doesn't fall for random upsmash)

 

[rhan]

rhan, I love you dawg, but for real

Zelda > Mewtwo and Y.Link dude.

30$ MM? Zel v YL

That offer is for any Zelda brave enough.

Edit: Except for Cosmo... I'll play Cosmo for 10$..... lol

 

[rhan]

no way yl is gonna be above m2. zelda sucks but you know. she has a good move. yl hasn't even entered a tourney lol.

zelda/m2/yl or m2/zelda/yl but zelda seems like she has better MUs (not very versatile tho imo).

Oh well double post.

MM at Pound 5. Same amount.

I'll show you why YLink in better.

 

[Deleted member]

im starting to believe that this is actually 6:4 zelda favor

i played trail in tournament yesterday, he couldn't do anything. 3 stocks

from what i've played, zelda beats ICs pretty narrowly.

i dont understand why the people think juggs is invencible. ken ***** mango jiggs in 2007 and ok the metagame is more advance and etc but is the same game the game didnt change in one aspect since 2007. if jiggs is so invencible i think like 2003 jiggs had mastered in all the tournaments. the argument that no one discover the effectivity of the aerial movility of jiggs is really STUPID in all of the years of melee (2001) they discover wavedash,how to use master hand and since 2008 jiggs of nothing is the best character. if jiggs have success its because mango and HBOX are very very good.stop made tier list based in tournaments results

you shut your ***** mouth. stop making good points @ 28 posts.

rhan I already told you I'm MM your keebler w/ zelda. head up to nova sometime and let's play. I'm definitely not as scary as cosmo right?

 

[soju]

This is how it really should go =3=
Smash Tier
Fox=Falco=Jigglypuff=Sheik=Marth=Falcon=Peach=ICs=Ganon=Samus=Doc=Luigi=Pikachu=DK=Mario=Link=Mewtwo=Zelda=Y Link=Kirby=Roy=G&W=Bowser=Yoshi=Ness

ICG TIER
Pichu

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

I'm not seeing how Kirby is better against Samus. Where is Kirby getting kills from? At least Pichu has an upsmash.

Also, I love fighting falcons with Pichu. Falcon's grabs lead to techchase, which is still bad, esp. vs. Pichu, but its better than a long auto-combo. Pichu gets the benefits of both combos and gimps, something Kirby still can't take advantage of.

And Jiggs is horrible for Pichu. I played against Raistlin and got 3 stocked. Racking up damage isn't so bad, but killing is really difficult (Raistlin doesn't fall for random upsmash)

vs puff you have to mind **** her into getting up-smashed stages with slopes so you can duck under bairs and hit her. also perfect up-B is useful. fighting puff you must be smart. also thunder is mad useful. nair kills at like 150% on most stages. dairshould kill a fair amount lower up-sm,ash kills at like 80% fully chatged side-B kills at 25% on any stage so missed rests are easy kills. also if we knock a puff off the stage i'm thinking about running dair should finish her off and if not jolts will. if you don't feel like taking a risk thunder her if she comes high, jolt low, from middle maybe dair over/upair high to thunder if to high to dair.

if you get a grab f-throw nair is your best bet most of the time. also thunder mindgames work VERY well in the begining of the set nice meatly hit and if you predict DI another thunder for puff to run into. If they predict and are very fast and somehow rest you'll at least take her stock hit or miss. I like to ban YS so I can get away from her if I need to.

 

[1048576]

I can tell you've never played against a good Jiggs, but I'll try theorying with you anyway.

They aren't going to full hop so you have time to run up and upsmash. It's a quick sh bair, then retreat. You have to turn around to have any chance to hit, and there just isn't time. All you get is a near-free sourspot nair. It's different than say, Samus, who jumps high enough to give you upsmash.

You can't edgeguard Jiggs. She has attacks too.

Grab is worth 20%. It's not exactly helpful.

Most good Jiggs don't go for non-guaranteed rests at non-kill percents unless they're deperate or guaranteed to win anyway. Like when I play Jiggs I might reckless rest off the spawn platform, but after 25 I'd be careful.

What sloped stages are you talking about?

 

[Fletch]

Why does every single tier/matchup thread turn into Pichu vs. Kirby debates? You really got to give it a rest ICG.

 

[Dark Hart]

KAO, rhan, let's all do $5 buy-in round robin bo5 versus each other, Zelda, YLink, and Mew2

 

[EPsilon933]

KAO, rhan, let's all do $5 buy-in round robin bo5 versus each other, Zelda, YLink, and Mew2

My Zelda will do it better for you.

 

[omgwtfToph]

hella other games use slashes for tier lists, this is fine

 

[ryuu seika]

Top
Fox/Falco/Jigglypuff
Sheik
Marth

High
Peach/Falcon


Upper
Ice Climbers
Ganon/Samus
Doctor Mario

Middle
Mario/Pikachu/DK
Luigi
Link

Low
Zelda
Mewtwo/Young Link

Bottom
Yoshi/G&W
Ness/Bowser/Roy/Kirby
Master Hand

ICG
Pichu

A few modifications based on my reading. Is this better?

 

[rhan]

rhan I already told you I'm MM your keebler w/ zelda. head up to nova sometime and let's play. I'm definitely not as scary as cosmo right?

Haha yeah it's waaaaaaaayyyyy overdue. I think we were suppose to have it like last POund but I never got a description of you... When's Melee gonna be hosted in NoVA again?

KAO, rhan, let's all do $5 buy-in round robin bo5 versus each other, Zelda, YLink, and Mew2

I'm down. Free money is always nice.

My Zelda will do it better for you.

Yuuuuu wanannnnnananananananana goooooooooooooo?

 

[EPsilon933]

Yuuuuu wanannnnnananananananana goooooooooooooo?

yes .

 

[KirbyKaze]

I'm not seeing how Kirby is better against Samus. Where is Kirby getting kills from? At least Pichu has an upsmash.

Samus can be edgeguarded with Bair, ledgehop Bair, and killed with Uair at 120% or so if you manage to land it. Mostly it's just the fact that Kirby can fly out and absorb the bombs or Bair the bombs (or Samus) to gimp her.

Kirby's range is useful against Samus's crouch cancel spam, F-tilt/D-smash, and Up+B OOS.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Pichu has no answer to a CCing Samus.

Kirby's inhale beats CCs, at least.

 

[Merkuri]

^ Yeah, and then his charge shot beats Samus' CCing.

 

[ryuu seika]

Or his Kirbycide...

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

Pichu has no answer to a CCing Samus.

Kirby's inhale beats CCs, at least.

went and tested put samus at like 20% to avoid low percent answer. But no first try didn't really space nair that amazinly and pichu landed beyond samus's d-smash range. pichu's nair covers a s*** lot of ground.

also pichu has the fastest l-cancel in the game it's not easy to punish. also krby's suck off in midair has much less range even when it lands so many people could outrange him.

also it won't be to hard to run up SHFF into 2nd jump away jolt they are buffering down and it won't be easy to quickly counter a jolt.

 

[TheManaLord]

30$ MM? Zel v YL

That offer is for any Zelda brave enough.

Edit: Except for Cosmo... I'll play Cosmo for 10$..... lol

rom 3 ?

 

[Deleted member]

most everyone can do decently vs samus one way or another because WD out of shield exists. kirby does fine vs samus, oddly.

 

[KAOSTAR]

KAO, rhan, let's all do $5 buy-in round robin bo5 versus each other, Zelda, YLink, and Mew2

haha sounds fun.

 

[Doc King]

I miss UsurperKingZant's Fox, I wish he would play him more.

BTW Umbreon, is the Tier list almost done?

 

[V3ctorMan]

KAO, rhan, let's all do $5 buy-in round robin bo5 versus each other, Zelda, YLink, and Mew2

Can Vman's Yoshi join in on this low tier fun?

<33?

 

[Deleted member]

I miss UsurperKingZant's Fox, I wish he would play him more.

BTW Umbreon, is the Tier list almost done?

no, we stopped halfway through and we're discussing it in a different manner before we resume i think.

 

[Dr. Riddler]

bliusclues (9:04:20 PM): http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=284778
bliusclues (9:04:26 PM): can u believe this ****?
bliusclues (9:04:39 PM): >garbage
bliusclues (9:04:40 PM): >roy
bliusclues (9:04:42 PM): WHAT
bliusclues (9:04:54 PM): you unlock roy after marth
bliusclues (9:04:57 PM): so roy>marth
bliusclues (9:04:58 PM): srsly
Yedispaghetti (9:05:38 PM): yo
Yedispaghetti (9:05:39 PM): so true
Yedispaghetti (9:05:40 PM): wtf
Yedispaghetti (9:05:44 PM): how did they overlook this
bliusclues (9:05:48 PM): i no right?
bliusclues (9:05:50 PM): post that
bliusclues (9:05:54 PM): people wont look at my post
bliusclues (9:05:58 PM): cuz my name aint purple

 

[LLDL]

Roy is below garbage lmfao, never noticed that.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Roy might be bottom on the merit of his DD grab, DD side B, CC D-tilt, WD back, and his overall ability to fight with a style similar to that of a top tier.

 

[-ShadowPhoenix-]

bliusclues (9:04:20 PM): http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=284778
bliusclues (9:04:26 PM): can u believe this ****?
bliusclues (9:04:39 PM): >garbage
bliusclues (9:04:40 PM): >roy
bliusclues (9:04:42 PM): WHAT
bliusclues (9:04:54 PM): you unlock roy after marth
bliusclues (9:04:57 PM): so roy>marth
bliusclues (9:04:58 PM): srsly
Yedispaghetti (9:05:38 PM): yo
Yedispaghetti (9:05:39 PM): so true
Yedispaghetti (9:05:40 PM): wtf
Yedispaghetti (9:05:44 PM): how did they overlook this
bliusclues (9:05:48 PM): i no right?
bliusclues (9:05:50 PM): post that
bliusclues (9:05:54 PM): people wont look at my post
bliusclues (9:05:58 PM): cuz my name aint purple

this is win

 

[ChivalRuse]

Roy's about as tournament viable as Yoshi or Ness.

 

[1048576]

went and tested put samus at like 20% to avoid low percent answer. But no first try didn't really space nair that amazinly and pichu landed beyond samus's d-smash range. pichu's nair covers a s*** lot of ground.

also pichu has the fastest l-cancel in the game it's not easy to punish. also krby's suck off in midair has much less range even when it lands so many people could outrange him.

also it won't be to hard to run up SHFF into 2nd jump away jolt they are buffering down and it won't be easy to quickly counter a jolt.

I second this. Also, Pichu is a much better edgeguarder than kirby, unless the opponent is recovering right below the stage. He just gets there faster.

 

[Animal]

i feel yoshi has low tier potenital. jsut ask vectorman. luigi should be moving on up if u ask me

 

[rhan]

yes .

You don't wanna goooooo!

rom 3 ?

When's that? I can try. I got fam in NY.

 

[ChivalRuse]

i feel yoshi has low tier potenital. jsut ask vectorman.

Any character can be played "well" and be developed ever closer to that potential. It just takes a lot more skill depending on how bad of a character we're talking about.