Character Matchups & Strategies

[[FBC] ESAM]

Yeah fine, settle for 60:40 people?

 

[gallax]

im not settling for 60:40 just yet.

 

[TLMSheikant]

60:40 sounds legit. I find DDD a little hard to grab tho.

 

[gallax]

unless you submit proof then saying its legit really has no weight. i need sound reasoning.

 

[Stealth Raptor]

so obviously gallax has to agree with it before its legit. oh boy

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

He doesn't need to restate what i said...

Advantages:
CG
Better camping
Better comboing
Better speed
Better edgeguarding

Disadvantages:
Worse Spacing
Worse Killing (doesn't everybody?)


Pros definitely outweigh the cons...it HAS to be 60:40 AT LEAST

 

[gallax]

i know what you said fool. people coming in and just saying i agree isn't helpful other than if its someone like prime or stealth or you or klo. ive never heard of this guy. im not gonna assume he knows what hes talking about just because he agrees with someone.

and no more debate on this for the next day. give me a chance to do something then ill be back on it.

 

[KayLo!]

I honestly don't care what the numbers are. They're not gonna change the matchup any, soooo if people insist on 60:40, it's whatever.

 

[TLMSheikant]

Gallax everything was said about the matchup already. Ive played the matchup a few times. Im nowhere near anther or ESAM's level and u prolly never heard of me but does that really matter? We have better camping game. Can combo DDD with upair. Can edgeguard him (providing hes far enough that he needs to upB he will always eat a thunder). Faster attacks. Have a chain grab on him. Cannot be Chain grabbed by him. Altho his back throw deals a ridiculous 16 damage and we can be tech chased...He has the advantage getting the kill and has better spacing with back air, ftilt and his stupid shield grab and general range. But thats about it. We definetely have the advantage. Any pika suggesting otherwise is not playing the matchup gay enough or doesnt know how to play the matchup to begin with.

 

[KayLo!]

We definetely have the advantage. Any pika suggesting otherwise is not playing the matchup gay enough or doesnt know how to play the matchup to begin with.

No one said we don't have the advantage, lol. We're arguing over the difference between 55:45 and 60:40, which is just plain ********, imo.

ESAM, your 65:35 doesn't count because.... that's just ridiculous.

 

[Kenrawr]

ESAM, for such a good player,

*rollsonfloorlaughing*

ESAM, I may have missed it in the hugeness of your text. But why is Pika:Ike 65:35 in your opinion?

 

[KayLo!]

*rollsonfloorlaughing*

ESAM, I may have missed it in the hugeness of your text. But why is Pika:Ike 65:35 in your opinion?

Lol, I know, that was a funny joke, right?

Anyway, lemme predict what ESAM'll say:
We can CG Ike!
We can camp Ike!
Ike is slow!
Ike has a bad recovery!

Calling it right now.

 

[Nicholas1024]

ESAM, your 65:35 doesn't count because.... that's just ridiculous.

The funny thing is, that ridiculous number... is what the D3 boards have for the matchup.

Anyway, Pikachu might be able to kill as early as D3, with the U-tilt/U-smash to thunder setup. Does anyone know a rough guildline at what percentage this will K.O him? Also, QAC to thunder might give the DDD some headaches. I think that with thunder, U-air, U-tilt, and U-smash, we can keep him in the air for some damage. (Disclaimer: I've rarely played a DDD, with the exception of the computer. All my knowledge is based off of what I've read on smashboards, and what I've done to computer opponents. )

 

[Kenrawr]

Im nowhere near ESAM's.

alskdjfalsdjf xD

I just got done reading the last page.

Personally after the last fest since I've been working on my MU I think the Pika/D3 MU could definitely be 60:40. 70:30 is just ridiculous though.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Well i previously thought the MU was 60:40, and we can do more damage with the CG now, but whatever. I guess the ike one was wrong, i don't have experience against a good one. But most of them i know are right. DDD should still be 65:35 imo, they had that number BEFORE we got 40 more % with our new CG.

 

[KayLo!]

DDD should still be 65:35 imo, they had that number BEFORE we got 40 more % with our new CG.

Oh no, not 40%?! That's like a scratch vs. DDD, lol.

 

[Nicholas1024]

40% is some nice damage vs any character. I mean, that's somewhere between 1/3 and 1/4 of a stock.

 

[KayLo!]

40% is some nice damage vs any character. I mean, that's somewhere between 1/3 and 1/4 of a stock.

Imo, vs. DDD, it doesn't warrant jumping him to a 65:35 matchup. But like I said, numbers are just numbers, I don't really care.

In fact, I'm not really sure why I bothered to say anything since ESAM's obviously not listening to anybody.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Just beacsue i stand by my opinion doesn't mean i'm not listening...

 

[KayLo!]

Whatever you say, little one. <3

 

[Sensei Seibrik]

He doesn't need to restate what i said...

Advantages:
CG
Better camping
Better comboing
Better speed
Better edgeguarding

Disadvantages:
Worse Spacing
Worse Killing (doesn't everybody?)


Pros definitely outweigh the cons...it HAS to be 60:40 AT LEAST

Im seibrik and I approve this message.


Besides, i duno if esams brought it up but i taught it to him, that if u just camp and wait for a waddle dee toss, 9 times out of 10 on reaction pika can run right under it and get a free grab/usmash

 

[Kenrawr]

It's like 60:40

Waddles? I'm guessing that got brought up in a wall of text somewhere. The D3's I've played NEVER use waddles unless they're on the opposite side of the stage hoping to get a gordo (or I assume that's what their intentions are anyway).

They shield grab/bair aerial camp with a couple of ftilts thrown in. Or they try to play smart and zone the pika if there are any platforms around.

Darn name searchers =o

 

[Sensei Seibrik]

Yeah I name searched but I only posted cause people are bashing esam


Anyways, you can test this out urselves if u like, toss a waddle dee and hold shield as u do it. notice how long it takes for a shield to come up. im gona do some recording later to show you, but its pretty **** laggy.

from across FD pika can either run under it and grab/usmash, or if the DDD is smart enough to angle the waddle dees down, now pika has to run powershield, run grab/usmash. it works either way.

 

[Kenrawr]

Don't worry. ESAM trolls us so we troll back.

I thought D3's don't try and waddle pikas in general now. :D

*waits for other pika's inputs*

 

[Stealth Raptor]

we dont bash esam, i know me and kaylo dont have anything against esam at all. we just like to poke fun

 

[KayLo!]

The D3's I've played NEVER use waddles unless they're on the opposite side of the stage hoping to get a gordo (or I assume that's what their intentions are anyway).

They shield grab/bair aerial camp with a couple of ftilts thrown in. Or they try to play smart and zone the pika if there are any platforms around.

Yeah, DDDs I play never waddle throw anywhere near me unless they know I'm not expecting it. They usually walk forward and pshield my tjolts until they're in a good range to ftilt, grab, and bair/dair camp. What DDD is gonna try to outcamp you? I think it's pretty general knowledge that tjolt > waddles in terms of straight-up camp.

Also, @Seibrik: ESAM practically invites the "bashing" we give him. He's said plenty of immature and condescending things to other people, so don't give him too much sympathy, lol. But like I said in the CG thread, I'm taking this whole thing to PMs from now on..... it's not something to be discussed on the forum.

 

[gallax]

im going to keep the MU at 60:40 in advantage of pikachu. nuf said.

 

[Jupz]

Imo 65:35 in Pikas favor. The CG's really hurt, all we've got in our favor is kill power and your down B can easily kill us if we use UPB. One of my least fave matches, around 60:40 or 65:35

 

[Xyro77]

Guys, the tasty Samus boards are talkin about Pikachu this week so please throw in your opinions on the match-up.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=222783

 

[Dynamism?]

I thought you said TASTY samus boards...
tasty wouldn't have big clothes on...

 

[AvoiD]

Falco boards are rediscussing the Pikachu matchup.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=238087

Please contribute, we have bread.

 

[Shadowtheoriginalone]

Ugh..no wonder I hate Marths. Their spacy attacks and tips annoy the hell outta me. >.<

 

[Pika_Cam]

One thing I noticed about the chart, probably just a blooper... Ness is listed as 5.3 difficulty but it also says we have a 55:45 matchup on him. Which is it?

 

[Guilhe]

Ike boards is currently revising the Pikachu matchup, all Pikachu players are invited to join us. But first, please refer to the main matchup thread for information on our procedures and informative threads over Ike. I’ve compiled some links to threads with important information over Pikachu there as well, if you wish to add other threads you consider important for this matchup analysis, please post the links there.

Main matchup thread:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=238648

Pikachu matchup discussion thread:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=7680248#post7680248

 

[GOL | 482 | JSalt]

One thing I noticed: Diddy has 6.0 difficulty with a 45:55 matchup, while Wario has 5.9 with a 40:60. How does that work?

 

[KayLo!]

One thing I noticed about the chart, probably just a blooper... Ness is listed as 5.3 difficulty but it also says we have a 55:45 matchup on him. Which is it?

One thing I noticed: Diddy has 6.0 difficulty with a 45:55 matchup, while Wario has 5.9 with a 40:60. How does that work?

Afaik, Gallax (with Kitt's help, possibly) is planning on re-evaluating the MU numbers so that they match. We're also going through Pika's matchups again (see: matchup re-discussion thread), so these ratios may change soon anyway.

 

[KuroKitt10]

Afaik, Gallax (with Kitt's help, possibly) is planning on re-evaluating the MU numbers so that they match. We're also going through Pika's matchups again (see: matchup re-discussion thread), so these ratios may change soon anyway.

This is correct. I'm just waiting to hear back from Galax before I get started on the next chart.

Mew.

 

[Inferno3044]

The Mario boards are now discussing Pikachu and want your help to get an accurate matchup.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=227291&page=82

 

[Ussi]

So the Warios are discussing Pikachu.... http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=7687368#post7687368

go get them Prime

 

[gallax]

kitt, we are re-evaluating yes. and same goes to everyone else. we are going to redo the matchup chart.