Character Matchups & Strategies

[Supermodel From Paris]

Like everyone else this week (wtf) the ZSS boards are discussing the Pikachu match-up and we could use your input. Except for you. Yes, you.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=203418

 

[choknater]

haha sup guys

i played stealth raptor's pika today with sheik at genesis

they were pretty close but stealth raptor won all the friendliez

i'll get at him tmw in brawl singles! ahahah

just confirming that stealth raptor is PRIY GUD!!

he didn't cg me though

was he being nice or is it not a guaranteed cg?

 

[SilverSpark]

not guaranteed -coughcoughnotreally-

 

[Piman34]

lol, stealth nice? good one, haha

good luck at genesis stealthy poo

 

[HammerBro123]

i really thought the captain falcon matchup was like 80-10 or something like that but ya he just gets chaingrabbed to 80% and then gets thundered or up smashed

 

[Stealth Raptor]

haha sup guys

i played stealth raptor's pika today with sheik at genesis

they were pretty close but stealth raptor won all the friendliez

i'll get at him tmw in brawl singles! ahahah

just confirming that stealth raptor is PRIY GUD!!

he didn't cg me though

was he being nice or is it not a guaranteed cg?

oh **** that was you choko? O.o yeah i dont cg in friendlies <.< i really REALLY hate them. ggs :D

 

[lax guy5]

i really thought the captain falcon matchup was like 80-10 or something like that but ya he just gets chaingrabbed to 80% and then gets thundered or up smashed

Sorry, but I couldn't help but noticed your math. "80-10"????

 

[Urban Menace]

Dawg this Chart is too good. Really Helpful too. O and lol @ that guys math^^^

 

[PUNK9]

Love the chartt!! Helped alott.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

hi pikas, the JP boards are ready to talk about you so pleace come over ---->(click arrow)

 

[Kataefi]

Wow this thread is looking great

Well anyways the zeldas are discussing you guys so I'd be grateful if you could turn up to this thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=244250

 

[DanGR]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=245052

:3

 

[Noa.]

I'm surprised the Pika boards haven't yet come to discuss the Oli matchup. I thought they were always online. >.>

 

[Razek]

We just pick MK and pretend nados are jolts -=P. lol

 

[Noa.]

I just learned the Mk matchup lastnight with Caps. Mk won't work next time. =p

 

[Admiral Pit]

Pit is now discussing Pikachu

Pit is discussing (or rediscussing, whichever it is) the Pikachu matchup.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=246276

Your support would be appreciated.

 

[KayLo!]

Moving this to the matchup thread. Hopefully some Pikas will head over and contribute.

 

[A1lion835]

The Kirby boards are discussing Pikachu, and any help with the discussion would be appreciated.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=236395

 

[TLMSheikant]

The Toon Link boards are rediscussing the Pikachu Matchup. If you pikachu mains could contribute your thoughts in the pikachu matchup thread it'd be very much appreciated .

 

[o-Serin-o]

Attempting to rediscuss the Pikachu Matchup

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=242610

Submiting any info will help. What I'm trying to do is really see if the matchup is 65:35 Pikachu.

 

[Alphicans]

Hey pikas, what are your thoughts on the falco vs pika m/u with the new cg? Falco boards seems to think 65:35 in pika's favor, but I am a little bit skeptical.

 

[gallax]

ima say 60:40. playing falcos when they are at 95% after a grab is like nothin. seriousuly. all you need is another 30% and you can now nair them to their death. in other words you need like 3 grabs(pummels included) then they are in death percentage.

its not 65:35 just because of the "you may not get a grab on their stock" idea.
this is all imo though.

 

[Alphicans]

I was kind of thinking the same thing, but I was leaning towards more of the 55-45 ratio, because it seems that it can be pretty hard to actually hit falco after the grab. Once the fear is gone, falco just kind of takes full stage domination and can pretty easily catch-up. But I guess that's the problem isn't it? Falco will always be in the position of trying to catch-up. Idk, 55-45 or 60-40 seem fair, but I think discussing this further with you guys would be a good thing for both groups.

 

[gallax]

yeah i mean i know falco has a CG on us which can lead to about 45% damage. but after that, falco cant really approach pika. if we grab>cg you will have to approach. we can duck your lasers. if you jump off the stage and laser us we have to shield for at most 2 lasers. then duck again. having the advantage of making you approach is what makes this fight easier. but if you make us approach, it gets to be more like 55:45.

 

[Kenrawr]

Ducking tends to usually only works near the edges of the stages from what I know. In which case you might as well plank.

I say this because I usually just get ->b'd by the falco when I excessively duck. Especially near the middle of the stage.

Does anyone know how well a pikachu can punish a perfectly canceled falco ->b?

 

[KayLo!]

Yeah, ducking's just gonna get you Illusion'd over and over again unless you're pretty far away. At mid-range, it's better to perfect shield.

 

[gallax]

Yeah, ducking's just gonna get you Illusion'd over and over again unless you're pretty far away. At mid-range, it's better to perfect shield.

uh ...duh. only an idiot would duck close to falco and not expect to get illusioned. always duck near the edge of the stage. i prefer not to grab the ledge since you have to take more time to get off the ledge and back into an advantageous spot, which can be a pain sometimes. plus, if you like to plank, there is a ledge grab limit. therefore, duck. NEAR THE EDGE.

 

[Alphicans]

yeah i mean i know falco has a CG on us which can lead to about 45% damage. but after that, falco cant really approach pika. if we grab>cg you will have to approach. we can duck your lasers. if you jump off the stage and laser us we have to shield for at most 2 lasers. then duck again. having the advantage of making you approach is what makes this fight easier. but if you make us approach, it gets to be more like 55:45.

The cg gets to like 50%, and if you get the spike off stage, it's really easy to get an illusion off, so like make it 55-60%. Closing the gap from 60% can be pretty easy, and it gets even easier since pika can't actually do much damage to falco or else the cg won't work properly. The whole metagame right now is at 0% both characters avoid the grab. I think under perfect play falco should get the grab first, and from then on can camp for a really long time, or at least until pika is above 100%. That way the match-up will be even. Now obviously this requires perfect play, and doesn't factor in the falco player being predictable, which is actually a major problem since he will tend to run away a lot making his movement really predictable. It's hard to tell though, but I really think falco can stall this match-up long enough to make it even at all times.

EDIT: Remember I say this under the assumption pika doesn't try to actually hurt falco until he gets the grab. And now that I think about it, it sounds dumb because at some point if falco camping and avoiding a grab is making pika fall behind enough the pika will probably smarten up and actually attack. I actually have no idea wtf to think of this match-up rofl .

 

[Kenrawr]

uh ...duh. only an idiot would duck close to falco and not expect to get illusioned. always duck near the edge of the stage. i prefer not to grab the ledge since you have to take more time to get off the ledge and back into an advantageous spot, which can be a pain sometimes. plus, if you like to plank, there is a ledge grab limit. therefore, duck. NEAR THE EDGE.

u mad.

Be more specific.

Grab limits depend on the TO's usually.

Isn't planking generally an effective strategy vs Falco anyway? What's disadvantageous about it?

 

[Alphicans]

Well falco has like no options to deal with planking, but 50 grab limit is pretty standard now a days. I don't think planking should be brought into this discussion.

 

[Kenrawr]

It's not that established in my area yet. And my area is pretty active.

Why wouldn't I bring it into the discussion?

 

[Alphicans]

I suppose it depends on location, but haven't most of the major tournaments lately implemented the ledge grab rule? Bringing planking into discussion just kind of ***** falco, and that's basically it right there.

 

[Kenrawr]

There's gotta be more depth to it than planking. >_>

Oh well, discuss away. Just wanted to say something about the whole ducking tactic.

 

[KayLo!]

If planking is a legit strategy that works, I dunno why.... it wouldn't be discussed. x.x

(Side note: I don't support playing lame like that, but whatever works, works.)

 

[gallax]

if you wanna plank then go ahead. in FL we will call you out for planking and grabbing the edge more than 50 times.

but we dont discuss planking because it doesnt help you get to know the matchup any better. so if you are doing friendlies and trying to learn to play falco then i suggest not planking. learn how to play falco so that if you ever get behind you wont be like, OMG I CANT PLANK SO I DUNNO HOW TO BEAT THE FALCO.

on a side note, i met plank. hes a cool dude. we entered a tourney together at hbox's

 

[Kenrawr]

if you wanna plank then go ahead. in FL we will call you out for planking and grabbing the edge more than 50 times.

I don't give a **** about Florida. Your rule sets are not relevant to me.

Planking is a tactic. Now, is it a good idea to plank throughout the match? Would it benefit me more to stay on the stage? If I do plank how much should I plank and how should I punish a falco in scenarios where he would try and counter my planking?

Maybe I should just go ahead and figure it out myself since no one seems to have a real answer. /useless

 

[Alphicans]

I don't think it really matters. The cg is just as scary to falco as planking. Maybe you could like plank after you land the cg? That way if you mess up planking it won't matter because you're ahead about 100% damage.

 

[gallax]

I don't give a **** about Florida. Your rule sets are not relevant to me.

Planking is a tactic. Now, is it a good idea to plank throughout the match? Would it benefit me more to stay on the stage? If I do plank how much should I plank and how should I punish a falco in scenarios where he would try and counter my planking?

Maybe I should just go ahead and figure it out myself since no one seems to have a real answer. /useless

woah dude no need so hostile. i was just saying that people will call out for planking if you grabbed more than 50 times because they want to win and will do whatever to win. my statement was more of a "watch out because playing too safe might hurt you."

now if you know that you can stall out the rest of the match then by all means plank. if you know you will stay under the limit then go for it. i was just saying that in friendlies you shouldnt plank unless you are trying to learn how to plank. but planking in friendlies will definately be more hurtful than helpful in trying to learn the matchup.

 

[KayLo!]

All we said was that planking is a legit strategy, lol, not the only one. Calm yourself a bit..... extra large font not necessary.

 

[Alphicans]

Ok planking is legit, but wouldn't you want to discuss how to play if planking was limited?