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[Phoenix~Lament]

I see people using dtilt after grabs or for ledgeguarding. O o

 

[Falcinho]

Oh and dtilt is the best move Marth has against ICs

 

[Piman34]

i have a vs peach question...i use dtilt alot for spacing, but in this matchup i end up crouch cancelling accidentally, and get hit by the d-smash of doom for alot more than i should be. i've watched match up videos and stuff, but i was just wondering what should i use to space in this matchup since i dont think dtilt is good...fair obviously, and go for utilt kills? also how to set up for those?

 

[KAOSTAR]

dtilt should be thrown in often. It has good knockback and the frames after the hit are interruptable so u can cancel the ending animations with another move, such as dtilt or smash.

fair to dtilt to grab isnt a combo but its effective.

its great for edgeguarding and shield poking and a weird sort of pressure.

 

[condemned_soul]

Oh and dtilt is the best move Marth has against ICs

i agree with that 100%....leaves good space between you and the opponent

 

[Kinglit]

anyone have advice for how to approach turnip-spam happy peaches??

i always end up getting FC'd aerialed in the face

any advice would help. thnx :D

 

[Milos]

use your aerials to go through the turnips

just shffl them in place

nair and fair are the best. space it so peach's FC's can't hit you in the nyuts

 

[Anomic_Punk]

anyone have advice for how to approach turnip-spam happy peaches??

i always end up getting FC'd aerialed in the face

any advice would help. thnx :D

^I'd say n-air works best, but countering is also an option. The risk/reward ratio is significantly lower, though.

 

[Roche_CL]

um, i would wait for an opening, if peach is jumping and throwing them you can aproach dashing below the turnip and then Nair/Uair from beneath her, just predict if she is going to throw it and not FCing.
If she's throwing on ground, you can jump them, i wouldn't recomend parrying/grabing, because you can get Dash attacked. Jump and wait if she tries to Nair you, then you double jump and punish. If she doesn't jump, then Fair, always space well because of CC.
Also power sheilding is an option, though a little hard, but practicing it is good cause it helps you with falco's matchup xD, at least thats for me.

anyway, try to pressure her a lot with Dtilts and jabs and space well, thats best thing you can do if you dont want turnips in the match.

 

[Kinglit]

thanks for the help :D

 

[Shinku]

im sure this has been asked over and over. but i really dont want to go through all those pages.

in the Marth vs captain falcon match up, who has the advantage. oh sure m2k may say its 60-40 is falcons favor, but ALOT of other people say marth has the advantage cuz of reach and edge guard.

i personally as a marth main strongly agree than falcon is a possible counter pick to marth.
the combos, speed, dash dancing, and knock back, are just very devastating against marth.
for me its like a keep away kinda thing, falcon attacks, marth defends. or at least thats how i feel.

 

[DippnDots]

It's in falcons favor at a higher level, marth's favor when the falcon isn't consistent and can't space for ****, or is just impatient.

 

[ArcNatural]

It's in falcons favor at a higher level, marth's favor when the falcon isn't consistent and can't space for ****, or is just impatient.

This, if the Falcon is really patient and knows how to properly mix up his approaches, dash dances, and doesn't mess up knee setups it's in Falcon's favor on any decent sized stage. I think it's slightly in Marth's favor in Yoshi's Island (Falcon has decent platform setups and easy knee KOs though), but more in Marth's favor on Fountain which is usually autobanned. Falcon also does better on non-neutrals IMO.

 

[KAOSTAR]

I just know that im comfortable with either character in the matchup.

it just depends on how good the falcon is at spacing. If he can get inside then grabs and uairs to knees own. but if not get punished hard for bad spacing and spammed aerials.

 

[Phoenix~Lament]

Marth vs Falcon is essentially whether or not the Falcon can get inside the Marth.

 

[chun1]

how do you CC grab without d-tilting??? Do you use the Z button to grab?? I keep on d-tilting out of the crouch

 

[KAOSTAR]

how do you CC grab without d-tilting??? Do you use the Z button to grab?? I keep on d-tilting out of the crouch

You should stand after you take the hit. while u are standing u can hit z.

A more reliable but 1 frame slower is to jump cancel your grab


You can also shield grab it and u may be able to grab b4 the shield comes out. if not ur wasting time.

What I do is simple let go of down after I take the hit and grab when there is an opening.

 

[KirbyKaze]

anyone have advice for how to approach turnip-spam happy peaches??

i always end up getting FC'd aerialed in the face

any advice would help. thnx :D

Start by not letting them throw turnips by being close enough to punish them if they try to pluck one, but not so close that you can't react to them doing dash attacks or float aerials at you or other Peach nonsense.

For actually dealing with turnips, you can simply avoid them by jumping around them or catching them (and then dropping them; Marth's item throws are bad) or Nair through them because of Marth's super hitbox of awesome.

 

[CanISmash]

You should stand after you take the hit. while u are standing u can hit z.

A more reliable but 1 frame slower is to jump cancel your grab

WHAT?

 

[KAOSTAR]

WHAT?

when u are CCing. You are forced into a crouching position. in this case Z will cause u to tilt.

after getting hit, I CC wit Cstick sometime so I auto return to a standing positon(dont remember if u do wit control stick or not to be honest), then I use Z to grab.

if u hold R or L u can simple do a shield grab but u may waste time putting up a shield b4 u grab.

method 3 is to jump cancel a grab while in the crouching position. since jumps can be canceled during the startup frames then that means 1-4 i believe are the possible frames u have to grab. Every input is taken into account on the next frame so if done perfectly u waste 1 frame jump cancelling a grab from the standing position vs simple grabbing.

its just saying that when u are crouching as u are forced into from a CC then u want to make sure u grab and dont dtilt.

let go of down and then grab
jc ur grab
shield grab
cc wit cstick and grab when u stand by hitting z or any of the above methods

 

[Smash G 0 D]

im sure this has been asked over and over. but i really dont want to go through all those pages.

in the Marth vs captain falcon match up, who has the advantage. oh sure m2k may say its 60-40 is falcons favor, but ALOT of other people say marth has the advantage cuz of reach and edge guard.

i personally as a marth main strongly agree than falcon is a possible counter pick to marth.
the combos, speed, dash dancing, and knock back, are just very devastating against marth.
for me its like a keep away kinda thing, falcon attacks, marth defends. or at least thats how i feel.

After the last tourney Max had I'm not so sure Falcon has as much of an advantage. If anything I'd say like 55:45 Falcon if he has an advantage at all. Marth just destroys him at the edge and it's not like you can't camp at the edge; Falcon doesn't have any projectiles. But he DOES have those insane 0-70 combos. As long as the Falcon knows the DI situations and he won't miss the knees.

 

[PK Webb]

i believe it depends on who has the better spacing. question is the ability to do double aerials nessecary to have a good marth.....like is it one of those skills that must be learned?????

 

[ArcNatural]

You should stand after you take the hit. while u are standing u can hit z.

A more reliable but 1 frame slower is to jump cancel your grab


You can also shield grab it and u may be able to grab b4 the shield comes out. if not ur wasting time.

What I do is simple let go of down after I take the hit and grab when there is an opening.

Just spamming shield + A is much more reliable than letting go and hitting Z imo. This method also lets continue to CC, so say they late nair to jab you can attempt to cc grab the nair and cc grab the jab if you don't get the grab out fast enough.

I'm pretty sure letting go of down is probably slower, I think it takes more frames to get out of the crouching position. Don't really know though could be wrong.

 

[KAOSTAR]

Just spamming shield + A is much more reliable than letting go and hitting Z imo. This method also lets continue to CC, so say they late nair to jab you can attempt to cc grab the nair and cc grab the jab if you don't get the grab out fast enough.

I'm pretty sure letting go of down is probably slower, I think it takes more frames to get out of the crouching position. Don't really know though could be wrong.

I thought that hitting down and then grab was simply a dash cancel grab or just crouch canceling in the sense of lag not CC as we normally say, and would be the same speed since there being a necessity to crouch for the CC grab method you can count the crouching frames as negligible and just perform at the same speed as a standing grab.

But I prefer not to spam shield grab and time my grab after they do an attack that I know has considerable lag, because more often then not a good opponent will space the attacks to where u cant grab anyway and u are just racking up damage thinking u will be rewarded and end up taking a stronger attack at the end or watching them grab your missed grab as u extend your hitboox.

But I do that too if its working. Spamming is easier and if u get rewarded for it then by all means make that paper.

 

[Phoenix~Lament]

Can anyone give advice on the marth/gdorf matchup? How to approach, possible grab followups at low %'s, how to stay out of his range, best stages, etc..

 

[KAOSTAR]

starters be patient. Wait for him to attack as much as you can and punish.

well spaced fairs to dtilt work well for keeping the beast from unleashing on ur ***.

Nair and side B work well also.

be persistant when edguarding and watch out for his falling uair when you recover.

I tend to like to fthrow at low percents and dthrow at higher ones. You can often side b and regrab(not a combo) or hit him again b4 he recovers.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

i'd suggest not using side b. you are stuck on the ground for a little bit, and a fair will hit you without you hitting him.

stay in the air and space. hes laggier than you, so you'll see ganons playing very defensively with retreating fairs. get his rhythm down and nair him. fair gets outspaced by his. you'll end up trading hits a lot, which is good for him.

use retreating fairs if he is being aggressive; bait and punish his lag. watch his jab habits, some people will wait a second to jab after the shield hit, and some will jab right away.

once a combo starts, you'll probably take him to death, so play patient.

 

[KAOSTAR]

i'd suggest not using side b. you are stuck on the ground for a little bit, and a fair will hit you without you hitting him.

stay in the air and space. hes laggier than you, so you'll see ganons playing very defensively with retreating fairs. get his rhythm down and nair him. fair gets outspaced by his. you'll end up trading hits a lot, which is good for him.

use retreating fairs if he is being aggressive; bait and punish his lag. watch his jab habits, some people will wait a second to jab after the shield hit, and some will jab right away.

once a combo starts, you'll probably take him to death, so play patient.

The point of the side B is that hes in the air. He cant mash into an attack like luigi could get a nair off or something. If Ganon was grounded he can jab faster than you can do anything but from the air you should be able to jus grab him or if you are both aerial you side B fast fall and uair.

 

[Aesir]

After the last tourney Max had I'm not so sure Falcon has as much of an advantage. If anything I'd say like 55:45 Falcon if he has an advantage at all. Marth just destroys him at the edge and it's not like you can't camp at the edge; Falcon doesn't have any projectiles. But he DOES have those insane 0-70 combos. As long as the Falcon knows the DI situations and he won't miss the knees.

up throw + knee @ (some stupid percent) > Marth

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

The point of the side B is that hes in the air. He cant mash into an attack like luigi could get a nair off or something. If Ganon was grounded he can jab faster than you can do anything but from the air you should be able to jus grab him or if you are both aerial you side B fast fall and uair.

yea, but the side b hitbox doesn't cover you that well vs ganon. it starts at the top, and very close to marth's head and then moves forward and down. IMO jab would be a lot better because of the space it protects.

 

[Roche_CL]

against ganon
aggresive mode on, if you manage to lift him up, the stock is yours. Double Fair, Fair to Uair, anything comboes him.
I wouldn't spam Nair too much, cause ganons Fair wins there. Also dont spam Utilt, because he isn't falcon.
my strategy, if he is double jumping Fairing, i would just DD and wait till an opening, approach with Rising Fair or dash attack.
Be careful of Ganons kick (downB), they always go "double jump, Fair, you approach, DownB"
dont get grabed, free Aerial, and his aerials do hurt alot.

i prefer fighting on larger stages, seems easier to combo him there, and on small stages you get knocked out on really low percentages.

i find this matchup not so easy as it sounds, you can't make mistakes D: and shielding approach is useless.

 

[Piman34]

something vs gannon i have noticed is he can jab out of some attacks/combos/strings, just be careful, like a low percent f-throw, he can jab out of it, so just be warned when trying to re-grab, etc

 

[Havokbringer]

Spam Up airs :D.

 

[KAOSTAR]

yea, but the side b hitbox doesn't cover you that well vs ganon. it starts at the top, and very close to marth's head and then moves forward and down. IMO jab would be a lot better because of the space it protects.

Right. thats why I like to use it when hes in the air about to fairly close to landing.

It hits him sooner and pulls him in closer. Where I often get grabs off.

I dont do it as a go 2 move but everyone can get frustrated when being tech chased by marths huge ***** overcompensating grab range.

ppl tend to Di away from the fthrows then u dthrow and they may get caught with bad DI. In which case I side B and regrab. Often the side b can be mistaken for an fsmash and they di that in getting close to u while still airborn.

thats all I was sayin. Its an option. Jab has outward knock back and at lower percents I like to grab and try to put them in a position to get gimped or knocked off the stage to an edgeguard.

 

[Havokbringer]

When ever I see Ganondorf or C.Falcon use their down b to recover I usually punish it with a reverse up b :D.

 

[Blistering Speed]

So.... a Peach beat the best Marth?

 

[Havokbringer]

So.... a Peach beat the best Marth?

I believe I heard M2K barely used marth but I'm not sure.

CACTUAR we should have done marth dittos instead of fox dittos T_T.

oh well maybe next time, also I need to eat before I play because I was in automatic mode until right before pools when I ate that double cheeseburger :D( mmmmmmmmmmmmm)

 

[Miggz]

When ever I see Ganondorf or C.Falcon use their down b to recover I usually punish it with a reverse up b :D.

That's something we have in common.

 

[Havokbringer]

lol yeah its too easy if you space it right.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

When ever I see Ganondorf or C.Falcon use their down b to recover I usually punish it with a reverse up b :D.

this was a fun tip, i started doing this and i really like it