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[JBM falcon08]

ive seen 13 recently

 

[halcyon.days]

ive seen 13 recently

I think the only reason why you can shine out at 13% is if the Marth is too late with his grab or misses it completely?

 

[Liemohnoes]

Hey in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omrJ7XgBYwU&feature=PlayList&p=59807436369A592B&index=36 , what does Kizzu do in between the other person's respawn time (the moveset with wavedashes and stuff.) I can't really figure it out myself cuz it looks like a giant blur cuz he's going so fast.

 

[Havokbringer]

Well he's dash dancing with some wavedashing mixed in at the end.

Atleast thats what I think you are talking about, if its something else then give us a time during the video to look at.

 

[KAOSTAR]

yea its just some dash dancing with wavedashes in it.

I think its called wave dancing lol[actually written in smash wiki]. or dancewaving lol [not really]

 

[Milos]

that was due to a mistake on the marth's part

 

[Phoenix~Lament]

So..

I grab a captain falcon who is below 10%. What the hell can i do now besides tech chase? Or is that really it..? ._. Since upthrow doesn't really give any opportunities for followups to marth, or am I missing something?

 

[Teczer0]

So..

I grab a captain falcon who is below 10%. What the hell can i do now besides tech chase? Or is that really it..? ._. Since upthrow doesn't really give any opportunities for followups to marth, or am I missing something?

The question is, why would you not want to tech chase?



But I think f-throw/d-throw tech chase is probably the most reliable thing to do out of a grab at low percents.

 

[Phoenix~Lament]

Well.. on most popular characters, marth can do something fancy out of a low percent grab. Chain upthrow on spacies, forward throw chain -> upair/fmash/fair/dtilt on most others including jiggs, marth, sheik, and peach..

But seemingly nothing for falcon. Tech chasing is fun :D Just wanted to know if there's anything else. Thanks

 

[Havokbringer]

Well For Falcon at low percents up throw and d-throws are easy tech chases to rack up damage so which ever you prefer.

F-Throw to D-Tilt is also a good option at low percent, it can lead to a tech chase or if they dont tech a Fsmash(or another d tilt, its up for alot of improvisation).

At around 35% you can start up throws to up tilt, but I think they can jump away before they get hit so you have to test and see if they like jumping out, in which case you can chase them with Fairs instead of up tilting.

Really your best option out of a throw is to tech chase, at low percents anyways.

 

[AlcyoNite]

Dair is something i never look for because good players never DI in.

just thought i would put that out there

THIS is completely wrong....

it is based on NOTHING and worth NOTHING.

 

[knightpraetor]

rofl, he says that cause I did it to him twice a match for a very long time. Everyone DIs perfectly when facing worse opponents, but look at m2k vs mango; he just keeps making mistakes that he wouldn't make against lesser players...it's really easy to get flustered playing good people.

I just hope that M2k is training hard and owns mango at genesis. Marth for Glory Tier

PS - I only missed one DI against you theo where you could have daired me in that entire night..so it's natural that you would think that I never miss that DI, but when I was at chudat's I missed it twice in tourney.

It's all a matter of surprising your opponent...well and throwing them fast...and mixing it up well so they have too much on their mind to think about.

 

[Smash G 0 D]

Who Marth is coming to pound 4 ;D?

 

[Cactuar]

If I go to pound 4, maybe I'll go all Marth just for old times sake.

 

[JesiahTEG]

Why did you switch to Fox anyways?

 

[KAOSTAR]

Who Marth is coming to pound 4 ;D?

Ill most likely be at pound 4 if I find out the date soon enough.

If I go to pound 4, maybe I'll go all Marth just for old times sake.

ur not quitting smash are u, only asking cuz there has been a trend of players going back to thier roots for old times sake for something equivalent to thier last tourney or something.

 

[Ohayo]

is it essential for Marth to have wavedashing?

 

[Milos]

absolutely. use it to space, stay in your range and out of your opponent's, bait attacks that can lead to a free grab for you, etc.

 

[MexicanBJ]

is it essential for Marth to have wavedashing?

Yes just learn it's not hard and if you think it is play brawl

 

[Piman34]

Yes just learn it's not hard and if you think it is play brawl

QFT, you are my hero

 

[knightpraetor]

define "essential"

but you should learn it regardless

 

[halcyon.days]

Okay, so in the community here there's lots of Marths, Foxes, a few Falcos and Falcons.

The problem is... there are no sheiks... I've only played against a few of them in tournament play and I usually won with Fox, but against Marth what works against them?

Like I know every matchup except for Sheik. I pretty much only know to **** her because of her laggy recovery but other than that... Also, I'm not sure how to DI out of throws as it always leads to a ftilt.

 

[ArcNatural]

Okay, so in the community here there's lots of Marths, Foxes, a few Falcos and Falcons.

The problem is... there are no sheiks... I've only played against a few of them in tournament play and I usually won with Fox, but against Marth what works against them?

Like I know every matchup except for Sheik. I pretty much only know to **** her because of her laggy recovery but other than that... Also, I'm not sure how to DI out of throws as it always leads to a ftilt.

low % EVERYTHING SHOULD BE CC'D. This whole matchup is based on who CC's & predicts spotdodges the best. When Sheik's approach from the air, almost all of them do some variation of aerial -> jab/spotdodge/tilt/dsmash. 3/4 can be CC grabbed, you can shield the aerial then CC grab in case they try to grab instead, and if they jab or tilt you just keep holding shield and spam A to immediately CC grab again.

It's also about really good spacing since her grab is pretty long too. a lot of stationary fairing to fading back nair/fairs help force Sheik into tight spaces. Bad Sheiks will try to roll so fade back nairs and fairs can either hit or you can just grab them after you see the roll.

The main reason why Sheik has the advantage here is projectiles give her the advantage in her ability to CC since your the one that's forced to approach more often.

For jumping out, you basically want to DI slightly behind her head and jump AWAY. If you DI slightly behind and then stop DIing and jump or try jumping towards her you will get upsmashed (in my experience anyway). They can still tilt or aerial you, but you get out of the CG that way.

It's late that's all I can think of for now. @.@

 

[Smash G 0 D]

You HAVE to be unpredictableeee when you're fighting Sheik. She's just got the right equipment to deal with what Marth has to throw at her. Pretty much, you have to outright outsmart her :/

 

[soap]

You HAVE to be unpredictableeee when you're fighting Sheik. She's just got the right equipment to deal with what Marth has to throw at her. Pretty much, you have to outright outsmart her :/

or downthrow her off the ledge

 

[Aesir]

Down b a lot.

 

[Smash G 0 D]

Neither of those work. :[ Sheik has an infinite cape glitch. OWAIT

Soap, the thing is, a good Sheik isn't going to let you get in that position. She'll just outcamp you with needles.

Aesir: .

^all i gotta say

 

[Aesir]

Okay I won't troll even though I REALLY COULD AND MAKE YOU ALL RAWR AT YOUR COMPUTER SCREENS!

Anyway my advise against sheik: is grabs at low percents, keep your spacing hug the ground alot and do a lot of safe pokes. Basically play incredibly safe, more so then usual, sheik has this nasty habit of combing you very well at low percents, and just as well at high percents. You on the other hand can only really combo her at low percents. The goal of this match up is to minimize your risk of getting combo'd.

The best advise you can possibly get out of all this is. Know your stages, space very well, just approach safely and what not. Ya know just be very cautious, this whole match up is a up hill battle.

Here's a list of stages I found bad/good in my match up experience vs sheik.

Stages:

Neutral:

Final D: 60/40
Yoshi Story: 55/45
FoD: 55/45
Stadium: 60/40
Dream Land: 60/40
battlefield: 60/40

Counter Pick stages:

Corneria: ****
Rainbow Cruise: Maybe possibly good?
Jungle Japes: I dunno, I could see this being REALLy bad for either character.
Green Greens: lol, gg marth
Mute City: 55/45
Brinstar: gg again marth
PokeFloats: could be good for either of them, or rather one isn't as gayed by the stage as the other.

I don't know much about counter picks, I'm always afraid to counter pick them in tourneys. and Any matches with spawn I know are just not legit because I know him like the back of my hand.

Places that are 60/40 are possible to win at, however they're incredibly difficult and unless you know the stage very well and are on top of your game you'll likely lose.

 

[soap]

that fin **** doesnt really let marth **** corneria, not if they know the mechanics and how to counter that nonsense

 

[Aesir]

I meant sheik ***** marth there.

 

[JesiahTEG]

Why did you switch to Fox anyways?

 

[Aesir]

I suck with fox, so I would rather not do that.

 

[Hinryu]

I hope I'm not intruding on any discussions going on ^^.

But I need a little help with double fairing. If anyone could help me that would be fantastic.

When I shorthop with Marth, I can only get one fair off before I land. About how soon do I fair when i sh? And when should I try fair again after the first one?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[AlcyoNite]

I hope I'm not intruding on any discussions going on ^^.

But I need a little help with double fairing. If anyone could help me that would be fantastic.

When I shorthop with Marth, I can only get one fair off before I land. About how soon do I fair when i sh? And when should I try fair again after the first one?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Cactuar should keep a running list of how many times people ask this question. Can there be a link at the top post of this thread for a "lesson" on shdf?

nothing against hinryu, but for an issue this common, there should be a default response.

I dont claw, so I use A for the first fair by sliding my finger from Y to A ASAP!! You DO have to fair quickly so that you can pull off the second fair.
I always use C-stick to do the second fair so that I can control my DI. DI in to combo; DI out to escape a shield grab or usmash out of shield. This general technique has never given me problems.

 

[Hinryu]

Thanks a lot! I appreciate the help. Sorry if I asked a nub question like that lol. I just wanted to get some feedback on how it was done. I've only been playing for about half a year, but I think I might be picking the game up alright.

 

[KAOSTAR]

haha the legendary double fair. lol makes u win automatically some say.


this is not true.

only advice is that if u are spamming it fade back so u dont get grabbed, or space it so u are outside of grab ranges

 

[Cactuar]

I just slide input between Y and A for shdf. Admittedly, I don't really use shdf much in high level play. I don't find it that useful outside of combos.

 

[knightpraetor]

yeah, for you new players....please please understand. SHDF is for comboing, not approaching..it can occasionally work for pressure on the worse characters in melee, but usually it's better to uptilt, dtilt, or jab after aerials instead. if you do feel pressured and do a rising fair (for example, OOS against falco), then unless you hit, it's usually safer to just land or retreating jump.

I remember there was a time when i was really horrible at this game, and I constantly SHDF against my opponents, and they constantly got owned by it.

But there was also a time when i let falcos pillar my shield and then full jump right above me as if I could not FJ upair out of shield....and FJ pillar pressure is not viable at all.

 

[SinceEternity]

hmm, if SHDF isn't that good at competitive play - how about dtilt? I don't see it very often either...

 

[Falcinho]

Dtilt *****

If you spam it and it keeps hitting your enemy will get mad like "that ***** is making fun of me"