Brawl Character Match-Up chart

[shadowlynk]

Crap, I meant to post this at the other list....

Can someone link "the other list"? Thanks!

 

[adumbrodeus]

I find the fact that both the yoshi and MK boards agree that it's a neutral match-up and you don't quite ironic. Seriously man, how can you know more about the characters then their mains? And they've got tons of people to filter the info.


Incomplete as it may be, DanGR's list doesn't presume the creator's omniscience.

Can someone link "the other list"? Thanks!

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=186338

 

[Dark.Pch]

Ok If I read this list right, there is a few things I dont agree with. and I will make a list of what I think. This is for my main Peach.

Diddy- Peach has the advantage.

Falco- Peach is at a disadvantage

Fox - Its even

Ganon - Peach has the advantage

Ivy- Peach Has the advantage.

Ice climbers - Peach has the advantage

Kirby - Even

Link - Ether its even or Peach has the advantage

Luigi - Even

Pikachu - Even

Pit - Even

Rob - Peach is at a disadvantage

Samus - ether even or peach has the advantage

Wario - Even

Zelda - Even

Zamus - Even

This is how I think it should be. And when I wake up I with talked about each of this match ups with hardcore detail on why I gave the match ups as I did on the list.

 

[ICANTCOUNT123456]

How did Snake go from being a counter to metaknight, to Meta being a counter to Snake?

 

[eyestrain92]

Yeah, I'm wondering where these influences are coming from.

 

[TKD]

EWWWWWWW...OUTDATEDNESS...yuck!!

 

[asob4]

lol @ TKD's sig

<3 both guys quoted there hahaha

 

[Hype]

How did Snake go from being a counter to metaknight, to Meta being a counter to Snake?

I was wondering too.

 

[cutter]

To make matters even worse, look at DDD's matchups. LMFAO

 

[adumbrodeus]

I was wondering too.

Basically, people were thinking in terms of the tornado, and a campy Snake deals with the tornado rather well.

Plus, Snake kills off MK early.


Thing Snake's safe moves get outranged by Mk's safe moves, initially nobody really realized this.

From there, Mk is overall superior at getting Snake's damage up, so even with the MUCH lower damage requirements, Snake will reach death percents first.


But it doesn't matter cause Snake beats the tornado! [/sarcasm]


Basically, by saying Snake had the advantage, the community jumped the gun.

 

[Laijin]

I was leaning more towards agreeing with this guide until I saw two things:
Kirby < Ness
DK > Metaknight.

I lost faith in this guide.

 

[MRTW113]

In my opinion, it would be better to pit computers against each other in say, 400 matches and see the results...

That'll be watching 400 brainless matches of fully charged smashes and no mindgames...

 

[adumbrodeus]

I was leaning more towards agreeing with this guide until I saw two things:
Kirby < Ness
DK > Metaknight.

I lost faith in this guide.

No, MK has no disadvantages at the moment.

Dk has priority, and can kill early... but he doesn't have safe options and MK has much better rushdown.

 

[Laijin]

No, MK has no disadvantages at the moment.

Dk has priority, and can kill early... but he doesn't have safe options and MK has much better rushdown.

Thats what im saying.
On the chart, it says DK has an advantage. Thats ridiculous. lol.
Kirby also has a huge advantage over Ness and DK.

 

[gantrain05]

no, as a former ness main, i've played many many many kirbys and honestly the match can go either way, its an easy 50/50 matchup, yeah kirby can be annoying with his arials and annoying dash attack, but a good ness will know when to simply shieldgrab the dash or counter kirbys arials with his Fair which outprioritizes every one of kirbys attacks besides hammer and his Up B.

 

[ICE27]

In my opinion, it would be better to pit computers against each other in say, 400 matches and see the results...

This sir is an invaild why u ask? Simply because when u save replays of u playing X char the game thinks "hey thats how X char should be played i'm gonna play like that more" Its not excatly like that but its close like certain move choices an tactices like how they appoarch some things!

Its been proven trust me, pit urself agaisnt ur main and watch how it fights u . If u have alot of replays of urself

 

[.Marik]

*Looks at Yoshi's*

.........

>_>

*Cries*

 

[Shy Guy 86]

*Looks at Yoshi's*

.........

>_>

*Cries*

Meh, This is outdated, go to the Yoshiboards and you can find much more accurate ones

 

[.Marik]

Meh, This is outdated, go to the Yoshiboards and you can find much more accurate ones

Yay. ^^

I'm just gonna prove to people that Yoshi is awesome.... I swear I will. Screw tiers. >_>

*Goes to Yoshiboards*

 

[adumbrodeus]

Yay. ^^

I'm just gonna prove to people that Yoshi is awesome.... I swear I will. Screw tiers. >_>

*Goes to Yoshiboards*

Accept your character's weaknesses..

Seriously though, he is rather underrated, but he is by no means awesome. You gotta learn to accept that if you're gonna improve.

 

[Kiwikomix]

Seriously though, he is rather underrated, but he is by no means awesome.

QFT. Few people seem to understand this, as it's either "Yoshi's awesome" or "Yoshi's awful" around SWF.

 

[Shy Guy 86]

about a few days before I got brawl, everyone was talking about how yoshi sucks, for the first time I tried him out today, he was by no means awsome, but not terrible as say Falcon/Sonic he is good, he can be mid tier IMO

 

[ROOOOY!]

Just because you suck with Sonic doesn't mean he's terrible.
Sure he's bad, but using him in the same sentence as Falcon is blasphemy.

On topic : FFS Bowser and Sonic is still neutral >_< I give up with this chart.

 

[Mmac]

Just because you suck with Sonic doesn't mean he's terrible.
Sure he's bad, but using him in the same sentence as Falcon is blasphemy.

On topic : FFS Bowser and Sonic is still neutral >_< I give up with this chart.

Forget it, Nobody ever listens to us ;_ ;

People are always putting Yoshi and Sonic down

 

[ROOOOY!]

Shut up Mmac you don't main an easy-win character so you're obviously worse than all the scrubs that flock to good characters and so are obviously less intelligent than them so your opinion is invalid!!!!

Spoiler

I keed mon ami

Ugh. Sonic. Bowser. Neutral. No.
There was a thread on Bowser boards about general troubles with Sonic a few weeks ago. I don't know why it's neutral at all.
b/c snoic spinnz into teh firez adn gits burnd adn pwnt, no?
There's plenty of wrong stuff in the Sonic bits.
Infact I'm bored and am putting off doing college work so am going to throw Sonic's match-ups out there from my own point of view and will give reasons soon enough, because I'm cool like that (even though I will be ignored xD)
I generally have played against most characters quite extensively but there are a few characters I haven't faced so will not give my opinion. Here goes lol.

Bowser - From neutral to advantage.
Falcon-Donkey Kong - correct
Falco - Disadvantage to neutral (though I'm sure no one would back me up there xD
Fox-Ganon - correct
Ice Climbers - Disadvantage to neutral
Ike - Neutral to advantage
Ivysaur and Jigglypuff I do not really know those match-ups so yah.
Dedede from advantage to neutral (though Dedede mains refuse to believe Sonic can even touch him)
Kirby-Lucario - correct.
Lucas - Not a disadvantage lol. Neutral at WORST.
Luigi-MK - correct
Ness - from advantage to neutral
Peach - Neutral to disadvantage
Pikachu I know nothing of.
Olimar's right.
Pit - Disadvantage to neutral.
ROB - Disadvantage to neutral (maybe, I'm not set on that)
Samus-Wario - correct
Wolf - Disadvantage to neutral
The last three characters are fine too.

I've checked quite a few of the changes I feel need to be made on some other character boards (Wolf, Ice Climbers, Peach (may look more but am probably to lazy to do so)) and their boards are in agreement in my judgement. Yes I'll come back and give reasoning.
Have fun ignoring me to death, lol.

 

[Greenstreet]

I'll try and fill in the blanks ROOOOY!...
Pikachu: We are either at big disadvantage or disadvantage, depending on how pikachu's see it, although I would more likely advocate just disadvantage as I can beat a decent Pikachu if the need arises.
I'd agree with ivysaur being nuetral, spent a good 6 hours playing PT's the other night and yer, there isnt anything one has over the other. Sonic just has to be carefull with aerials and Ivy has to try to avoid getting combo'd and avoiding lag.

I agree with ROOOY! on bowser. And if you think that the flames make sonics approach redudant, play a good sonic next time.
1. Spin shot approach - bowser flames are laggy enough that we'll b-air or even d-air or nair before Bowser stops flaming
2. SDJ- we can jump out of our roll!! and once again the bowser flames are laggy enough that we can sneak in a homing attack about 75% of the time
3. We can wait.

Sonic's these days are getting increasingly better at avoiding hits so more and more can we avoid Bowsers big smashes and bowsercides. You are a massive target with a fair bit of ending lag on some moves, the combo potential for Sonic is amazing, even if we just double hit you with a roll (SDJ) and add an extra 4 % from the spring.
As for ko'ing, sonics keep there smashes fresh if they are smart. It doesn't take long to shield grab bowser for a star ko either (altho good bowsers shud ba able to avoid this)

Just my opinion, flame if you will...

 

[ShadowLink84]

Argh I've been playing terribly lately T_T

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

Ike is kind of agreed to be a neutral match up. You can go check the tier sticky since the last 4 pages are like all about that. With a few other characters mixed in.

 

[Dark Sonic]

^^Yeah, I'm going to agree with neutral. Though admittedly the 4 page discussion seems to be centered around Sonic's ledgetraps against Ike.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Hmm? Oh it was a discussion on Ike's vulnerabilities not really a matchup thing.
I could post something if needed.

 

[ROOOOY!]

I've kept tabs on that discussion and it didn't seem to go anywhere or hit a conclusion at all.
I see no percievable way at all how it's neutral. I've NEVER had trouble with Ike, and fail to see what he has over Sonic. Ike's jab is the only thing fast enough to stop Sonic walking all over him IMO. Most attacks are easily telegraphed and punishable and whatever.
Oh well.

 

[Shy Guy 86]

I've kept tabs on that discussion and it didn't seem to go anywhere or hit a conclusion at all.
I see no percievable way at all how it's neutral. I've NEVER had trouble with Ike, and fail to see what he has over Sonic. Ike's jab is the only thing fast enough to stop Sonic walking all over him IMO. Most attacks are easily telegraphed and punishable and whatever.
Oh well.

With a matchup chart thats severly outdated and only gets updated every 1 month, it will take about 1 year to finish this if the metagame doesn't change

 

[gantrain05]

have we done mario vs ROB? if so can anyone provide a link to it, and if not, care to discuss?

 

[Cook]

How often does this chart get updated? Is it still very accurate?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

It gets updated ~every 1 or 2 month or so. It's always outdated after a week though...

 

[IvanEva]

What in the name of Yoshi's up-b!? Second page!? I've been away for much too long! This shall never happen again!

Ok, so, I'm back to slowly tending to my little baby. I was away from Smash for the most part for a bit thanks to the wonders of GGPO (which I still strongly recommend for everybody - Nintendo better be using it for Smash 4).

I disagree with the above post that it'll always be outdated after a week. The metagame is starting to take shape, making match-ups easier and such. I suspect that it'll be pretty stable in a few months. Having recently graduated I should hope that I'll be finding a job soon so that I can earn enough money to be running around attending tournaments.

 

[CSTIK]

We Lucarios say R.O.B. is an even match-up against us.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=176912
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5315891

 

[DanGR]

Olimar's matchups are actually looking pretty accurate except for a couple matchups. The Olimar players say Olimar has the slight edge over DK (55-45 even)- as do I. Peach should be moved to big disadvantage for Olimar. I'm pretty very sure that everyone from both sides have agreed to that. And squirtle is a somewhat even matchup.

I can go in depth if you want.

 

[Tenki]

I've kept tabs on that discussion and it didn't seem to go anywhere or hit a conclusion at all.
I see no percievable way at all how it's neutral. I've NEVER had trouble with Ike, and fail to see what he has over Sonic. Ike's jab is the only thing fast enough to stop Sonic walking all over him IMO. Most attacks are easily telegraphed and punishable and whatever.
Oh well.

I would say 'mindgames', but that's not factored into matchups.

Good players can dodge, and to counter that, good players can mindgame.

It sort of evens out so that in the matchup discussion, we assume that characters will get hit once in a while lol.

If Sonic is in the air, a good Ike can do stuff to focus on/camp airdodges. Jab can stop approaches and give Ike a chance to grab, and as I perceive it, Ike has a pretty decent grab game.

Range, priority, power make it ... neutral ish.

 

[Samuelson]

Great idea but it's a little inaccurate unfortunately. Lucario goes even with TL IMO, eventually this chart will be perfect but right now there are a couple things that probably need to be fixed.