Brawl Character Match-Up chart

[IvanEva]

There is really nothing about Ganondorf that would hinder him more than any other character with an uphill battle against ROB. ROB should have a minimum advantage, if any at all.

Ganondorf has a lot of trouble getting past ROB's spot dodge to down smash. Couple that with ROB's ridiculous projectile game against the slow moving Ganon and you've got a very uphill match-up.

Because it's completely outdated and has bias issues.

Unlike the other match-up chart.

While I like how the other match-up chart is coming together (taking only consensus that is agreed upon by both boards), it has a long way to go. I'm going to be taking this chart in a different direction when I'm feeling more productive. However, I definitely agree that this is becoming a bit too outdated as I've not really gone over each match-up for a while now.

wolf = DK or even >DK

Why? DK's range deals with Wolf pretty well.

 

[choknater]

If I had to use my imagination, ALL of Ganon's matchups would be uphill.

The trick to playing him well is being confident in his sheer power. Seeing stuff like his dash attack doing 19% certainly puts a smile on my face. In essence it could take only 6 or 7 good hits to KO someone.

 

[ShadowLink84]

its a pity he has difficulty landing those hits.

*nod nod*

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Snake > Wolf is wrong. It's 50:50

 

[choknater]

its a pity he has difficulty landing those hits.

*nod nod*

Yeah, for sure. Going into matches with confidence helps though.

I'm sure Ganon players go into matches knowing they are at a disadvantage in matchups.

But good Ganon players should not go into matchups thinking "Darn, this is going to an uphill battle." or "Crap, I will lose."

They gotta think "I'm gonna get those good hits in so I can win... with Old Man Bearded Ganon baby!"

 

[NinjaLink]

actually i would believe its in snakes favor. Sadly snakes ftilt clashes with all of wolfs ground attack but after i saw the matchup in person i could say its even. Wolf just has to outspace the **** outta him.

 

[choknater]

pretty nice sig gifs

 

[IvanEva]

I feel dirty turning Snake advantages into non-advantage ones. He's just so much ****...

As for Old Manondorf, yeah, he's usually very much on the short end of any stick but when he gets those hits in they really hurt. It makes his match-ups hard to do since, while he doesn't dominate anybody, at any time he can turn things around so quickly.

 

[Fatmanonice]

zomg this topic is on the second page. I could find it for a molment. So bump.

why isn't it stickied.

Because it's pretty inaccurate, actually. For example, Mario's matchups are a complete mess...

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Some of Snakes disadvantages seem to be questionable. Why does he have one vs Pika and Olimar?

 

[Fatmanonice]

Some of Snakes disadvantages seem to be questionable. Why does he have one vs Pika and Olimar?

Pikachu has a chain grab on him, can stop camping and blow up mines simply by using the thunder jolt, and, when used right, thunder absolutely ***** his recovery. The matchup is at least 60/40 in Pikachu's favor. Olimar, I agree, is questionable. Snake's camping>>>Olimar's caming. Snake's grenades make it very hard to pull off shield grabs and Olimar's predictible recovery make it way too easy for Snake to set up mine/nikitia/grenade/c4 traps on the edge.

 

[NinjaLink]

Pikachu was considered an official counter months ago.

 

[peruvian_001]

Snake > Wolf is wrong. It's 50:50

This is wrong, snake destroys wolf all he has is the gun against snake, where as snake can do pretty much anything to destroy wolf.

 

[Mmac]

You're well aware of the other thread, then you're well aware that you know of Yoshi development and his Matchups where BOTH parties have agreed on (You think that Both Yoshi and MetaKnights agreeing on a Neutral Matchup would mean alot >_> ). Yet, you still choose to bliantly ignore those facts

Personally, I have all reasons to suspect that you have extreme biased against him, and nothing more than the stereotypical "Yoshi is as garbage as Falcon/Ganondorf" trend. I also think that you are also not treating other characters as fairly as well *Coughsoniccough*

 

[~ Gheb ~]

no. just no

Gun stops mortar slide and Snakes mobility is non existen without the Mortar slide. Count in the fact, that Wolf outcamps Snake and you can see, that Snakes options are minimal.

A dthrow down the ladge is a perfect set-up for a spike, so killing isn't an issue for Wolf either.

Plus Wolf can counter Snakes beloved tilts with Shine-...

 

[ROOOOY!]

Mmac you should get used to it. No one takes low tier mains seriously because their opinions are less valid because they're not intelligent/good enough to play a better character.
I've discussed extensively in this thread why Sonic has the advantage over Bowser quite clearly at least twice, and even though there's a freakin thread in the Bowser boards about having trouble with Sonic I'm still not getting listened to.
I feel like an indignant little bitch.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

You better get used to it, Rooooy. Stuff like that will alwazs be ignored. I also showed Falco and Kirby is even long ago but it never got recognised in the chart, although the matchup is agreed...

 

[Dark Sonic]

^^I still don't get why that hasn't changed. That was a well supported arguement, and even the Kirby mains agreed with it.

 

[M@v]

just a headsup, the fox guide your linked to hasn't been updated since may. We have a new one now

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=186742

 

[Shy Guy 86]

The whole thing is outdated, the only way he will listen that Yoshi = MK is for an MK main to say it, I used to main him(along with falco), but I quit him in June.

 

[GreenKirby]

*looks at Meta Knight's crapload of checks and absolutely no x's*

And people still want him not to be banned? >_>

Heck, the other top tier characters have at least 2 bad match ups

 

[choknater]

No idiot's gonna ban MK calm down.

Spoiler

in b4 italy

 

[IvanEva]

1. Mmac you should get used to it. No one takes low tier mains seriously because their opinions are less valid because they're not intelligent/good enough to play a better character.

2. I've discussed extensively in this thread why Sonic has the advantage over Bowser quite clearly at least twice, and even though there's a freakin thread in the Bowser boards about having trouble with Sonic I'm still not getting listened to.
I feel like an indignant little bitch.

1. I have a lot of respect for people who play low tier characters; I myself main Lucas and will never change mains despite all the gimping and chain grabs to forward smashes. However, I keep seeing a bit of hypocrisy in how low tier mains act towards their characters. They seem to enjoy being in 'low tier' status but don't like acknowledging why it is that those characters are there. It's because they're not that good. Yes, the Ganondorf, Yoshi, Sonic, Ness, Lucas, Link, etc. mains have a harder time getting their point across when they claim that their characters have good match-ups against better characters, it's because those other characters are BETTER.

Nobody, I should hope, believes that low tier mains are less intelligent, or not good enough to play the highter tiered characters. Hell, you have to be very good to be winning with the low tiers.

2. If everybody was in agreement it wouldn't be an issue. Thing is, for many match-ups there are people believing it goes both ways. The Bowser/Sonic one has gone back and forth a bit. I might change it again soon though.

Yeah, I'll change the Falco/Kirby one soon as well.

 

[peruvian_001]

no. just no

Gun stops mortar slide and Snakes mobility is non existen without the Mortar slide. Count in the fact, that Wolf outcamps Snake and you can see, that Snakes options are minimal.

A dthrow down the ladge is a perfect set-up for a spike, so killing isn't an issue for Wolf either.

Plus Wolf can counter Snakes beloved tilts with Shine-...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBqoJVpScn4

 

[DanGR]

Olimar, I agree, is questionable. Snake's camping>>>Olimar's caming. Snake's grenades make it very hard to pull off shield grabs and Olimar's predictible recovery make it way too easy for Snake to set up mine/nikitia/grenade/c4 traps on the edge.

You're wrong. some highlights,
-Olimar outcamps Snake very easily.
-Olimar has a very good defensive game that makes approaching with Snake very hard.
-One grab at low percents =50% easily. (without techchasing and followups)
-He's very easily to juggle, which is much more important for Olimar than it is for most characters.
-Killing is no problem.

I've explained his advantage numerous times earlier, and many other Snake and Olimar mains have agreed with me.

 

[NC-Echo]

DanGR is right as usual. Olimar has the advantage against Snake. Though I believe it to be quite a small advantage he does have the advantage.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBqoJVpScn4

lol

Are you trying to prove my arguments wrong by posting one vid???

Edit: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=aNd6ciPDmGQ

 

[ROOOOY!]

1. I have a lot of respect for people who play low tier characters; I myself main Lucas and will never change mains despite all the gimping and chain grabs to forward smashes. However, I keep seeing a bit of hypocrisy in how low tier mains act towards their characters. They seem to enjoy being in 'low tier' status but don't like acknowledging why it is that those characters are there. It's because they're not that good. Yes, the Ganondorf, Yoshi, Sonic, Ness, Lucas, Link, etc. mains have a harder time getting their point across when they claim that their characters have good match-ups against better characters, it's because those other characters are BETTER.

Nobody, I should hope, believes that low tier mains are less intelligent, or not good enough to play the highter tiered characters. Hell, you have to be very good to be winning with the low tiers.

2. If everybody was in agreement it wouldn't be an issue. Thing is, for many match-ups there are people believing it goes both ways. The Bowser/Sonic one has gone back and forth a bit. I might change it again soon though.

Yeah, I'll change the Falco/Kirby one soon as well.

1. Is that meant to imply that I can't accept Sonic sucks? He does. Even though I'll be the first to admit that 5th bottom on the tier list is an absolute joke, I still consider him a low tier character. As for the match-up at hand, I also think Bowser is a low tier character, so yeah.

2. I haven't seen any arguments at all for the match-up not being in Sonic's favour. That's a bit silly that you should bring that up, especially where I brought up the point that Bowser boards have a problem with Sonic identified in a thread on their first page.

Meh, I don't mean any disrespect. I just felt that when I argued a point and nobody argued against it my point was probably right and so should have been reflected on that chart, that's all.

 

[Ruse]

Doesn't Jigglypuff have an advantage over IC?

 

[Snowstalker]

Why is Yoshi STILL even with Wario?

Amen. Yoshi isn't absolute suck, but I'll be the first to stick him in Low tier. Maybe 8th from the bottom.

 

[Flayl]

ROOOOY!, is it customary in the sonic boards to read only the title of a thread and not its content?

I suggest taking a second peek.

 

[ROOOOY!]

At what, sorry?

 

[Shy Guy 86]

Why is Yoshi STILL even with Wario?

Amen. Yoshi isn't absolute suck, but I'll be the first to stick him in Low tier. Maybe 8th from the bottom.

Aren't Yoshi's matchups decent, but some of his other things put him back?

 

[Mmac]

Aren't Yoshi's matchups decent, but some of his other things put him back?

Crappy Shield....

uh.... Some killing troubles on most characters....

..... Hmmm.....

He does get owned badly by Game & Watch and Lucario though >_>

 

[NinjaFoxX]

Doesn't Jigglypuff have an advantage over IC?

nope,even match up

Jiggs can just hit Nana off the stage and (with her infamous air-game) ensure that she never makes it back on. Once Nana is removed from the equation, one Climber doesn't really have any good approaches/uber broken attacks, and the climbers recovery is gimped.
When going for rest combos its pretty hard not to hit at least one of them because of how close they always are to eachother. Its also pretty hard for IC to chainthrow jiggs because she is both an uncommon foe, and super floaty. Be advised that IC's Up B wil **** jiggs.currently a 5:5 tho,possibliy 45:55 jiggs

 

[~ Gheb ~]

There are IC mains, who think, that Jiggs has something like a 70:30 advantage...don't ask me why though...

 

[Shy Guy 86]

Crappy Shield....

uh.... Some killing troubles on most characters....

..... Hmmm.....

He does get owned badly by Game & Watch and Lucario though >_>

Wasn't Falco his hardest matchup before the CG?

 

[Flayl]

At what, sorry?

At the fact that Dias, the one who created the thread, came back to say he didn't have problems with sonic.

It's called learning the matchup.

 

[ShadowLink84]

At the fact that Dias, the one who created the thread, came back to say he didn't have problems with sonic.

It's called learning the matchup.

but you also ignore the fact that Terios' Sonic is average.
Hell he said it himself, there are a number of things that would have helped him int he match (spinshotting being number1) but he does not do well.

 

[MonkeyMan]

according to the chart, ganondorf is the worst character in the game 0 advantages *shrug* just thought i'd point that out