Brawl Character Match-Up chart

[ChronoPenguin]

You need to fix up Yoshi.
He clearly beats Squirtle as made apparent when both communities go
Okay if we will use Charizard and Ivysaur vs Yoshi but not squirtle since squirtle gets CG'd to f-aired.

 

[Mario_ 101]

Why, may I ask that you think Mario has only 3 good matchups? Ridiculous. For starters, Mario vs. ROB is AT LEAST NEUTRAL. I listed this like a month back but no one paid any attention. Go check the ROB and Mario matchup threads Ivaneva.

 

[Judge Judy]

Why don't people just go to the Mario boards and read the match-ups? Mario has way more good match-ups than 3.

 

[ROOOOY!]

I would say 'mindgames', but that's not factored into matchups.

Good players can dodge, and to counter that, good players can mindgame.

It sort of evens out so that in the matchup discussion, we assume that characters will get hit once in a while lol.

If Sonic is in the air, a good Ike can do stuff to focus on/camp airdodges. Jab can stop approaches and give Ike a chance to grab, and as I perceive it, Ike has a pretty decent grab game.

Range, priority, power make it ... neutral ish.

Argh. Well that sucks. If we're comparing move vs move which is seemingly what it is then by that logic Sonic loses out in every single match-up.
You've gotta factor other things in..surely?
For that matter, I don't know how we can really do Sonic match-ups. Every Sonic plays so differently, so some people have difficulty in match-ups that other Sonic's would find easy.
Again, if we look at it linear and without mindgames and stuff which are by far the biggest part of Sonic's gameplay then he doesn't have ANY good match-ups.
I base my opinions more on how well a character can deal with these mindgames and general pressure. Characters like Ike are *****es for punishment, and also *****es for having punishable moves baited out of him via Sonic cancelling approaches because quite a few of his attacks have very punishable lag.
I agree with your points though.

 

[iLink]

Why does Yoshi have a significant dis-advantage to Falco?

Yoshi can release chain grab him fairly easily and can lead into an inescapable spike.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=189699

 

[gantrain05]

Why does Yoshi have a significant dis-advantage to Falco?

Yoshi can release chain grab him fairly easily and can lead into an inescapable spike.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=189699

just so you know, yoshi's spike after his chaingrab is escapable by any character, its not fast enough to not let them airdodge before you land it.

 

[DanGR]

just so you know, yoshi's spike after his chaingrab is escapable by any character, its not fast enough to not let them airdodge before you land it.

It's an inescapable fair spike. Trust me.

 

[CR4SH]

Your gif is wrong. Luigi isn't just at a disadvantage against metaknight, he's at a disgustingly terrible disadvantage.

 

[DMG]

It's an inescapable fair spike. Trust me.

The spike is only inescapable if they are spaced right, and I doubt they can alter their spacing while they are moving forward with CG's. They have to be spaced right at the end, but there's no way to space before hand from what I can tell. So the spike is not guaranteed every time.

 

[DanGR]

The spike is only inescapable if they are spaced right, and I doubt they can alter their spacing while they are moving forward with CG's. They have to be spaced right at the end, but there's no way to space before hand from what I can tell. So the spike is not guaranteed every time.

Yeah, that's true. I guess in that way it is escapable. I'm not sure about altering it though, You'd have to ask Mmac.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Yoshi isn't neutral with Falco even with the CG spike.

This is because while Yoshi has an advantage to an extent with this.
The CG spike won't kill from 0% unless the Falco is being stupid.

Remember Falco also Demolished Yoshi before this was found.
All this done is turn it from a Huge advantage for Falco at like 7:3

to like 6:4

IMO,

 

[Ornj]

wario does not have a bad match up against luigi in fact, if anything, its the other way around

and wario does bad against lucas

 

[gantrain05]

wario does not have a bad match up against luigi in fact, if anything, its the other way around

and wario does bad against lucas

WHAT?! every time i come across a wario with my weegi it never turns out good for wario, weegis arial speed and power just shut down warios air game, and makes it almost impossible for him to approach.

 

[Blackbelt]

wario does not have a bad match up against luigi in fact, if anything, its the other way around

and wario does bad against lucas

I main Lucas.

You are incorrect.

Good day

 

[mimic_king]

If Snake is the best and Meta Knight is second, the why does Meta Knight have less disadvantages than Snake?

Same goes for CF and Ganondorf. CF is ranked worse than Ganondorf, but has an advantage against him. It doesnt make sense.

 

[exidid]

MK is better than Snake, that is very well known.

CF has worse tourney results than Ganondorf and overall, less potential.

 

[adumbrodeus]

If Snake is the best and Meta Knight is second, the why does Meta Knight have less disadvantages than Snake?

Same goes for CF and Ganondorf. CF is ranked worse than Ganondorf, but has an advantage against him. It doesnt make sense.

Snake is not the best MK is.

And when Snake was the top winner in tournaments, metaknights didn't know how to deal with him properly, and they cleared his disadvantages from tournaments.

So, it's really entirely based on the metagame.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I'm tired of repeating myself (especially since nobody pays attention anyways but Falco vs Kirby = neutral

 

[iLink]

Yoshi isn't neutral with Falco even with the CG spike.

This is because while Yoshi has an advantage to an extent with this.
The CG spike won't kill from 0% unless the Falco is being stupid.

Remember Falco also Demolished Yoshi before this was found.
All this done is turn it from a Huge advantage for Falco at like 7:3

to like 6:4

IMO,

That's mainly what I was getting at. I don't think he's at a huge disadvantage, just a disadvantage.

 

[Mmac]

The spike is only inescapable if they are spaced right, and I doubt they can alter their spacing while they are moving forward with CG's. They have to be spaced right at the end, but there's no way to space before hand from what I can tell. So the spike is not guaranteed every time.

No, that's only true with MetaKnight. Everyone else can be done exactly at the edge. Everyone seems to be taking the properties of MetaKnight and applying to every other character. How does that work? That's like saying that Ness's Bair and Falcon's Fair are the same, therefore Falcon's airs are equal to Ness's.

Also in my opinion, Falco is the 2nd easiest to spike out of the 4 that can be Chaingrabbed.

Yoshi isn't neutral with Falco even with the CG spike.

This is because while Yoshi has an advantage to an extent with this.
The CG spike won't kill from 0% unless the Falco is being stupid.

Remember Falco also Demolished Yoshi before this was found.
All this done is turn it from a Huge advantage for Falco at like 7:3 to like 6:4

IMO,

Uh, no. He doesn't die from 0% because he's stupid. He dies at 0% because he doesn't have the ability to recover from that height and distance, not to mention his UpB is probably one of the easiest to Edgehog, especially at the climax of his attack. Just because he has time to react from the spike, doesn't mean he's not screwed.

It's easy to do, and even only doing it once most likely gains him the win. He's not even stopped by platforms so you can't even counterpick, so how can it NOT be anything but Yoshi's Advantage?

 

[demodemo]

hey, spotted some problems with your chart for sheik;

sheik vs ganondorf is by no degree even, if anything a heavy counter
sheik vs toon link should be favoured
sheik vs snake should be even, snakes advantage over sheik is not nearly enough to be a counterpick

 

[Gabz]

Well i think about your post demo that sheiks speed takes over ganondorf strenght in my opinon sheik should have a lttle advantage.

sheik vs Tl well in clash of atacks tls swords have mor range and when used well his long distance attacks like the bomb arrow etc just doesnt let her do her stuff

And sheik vs snake snake has powerful long distance atacks and his fists are very powerful when closing in, in my opinion it barely fits as a counterpick.

But remember this is only an advantage/disadvantage chart the rest is the ability of the player in how

 

[DMG]

No, that's only true with MetaKnight. Everyone else can be done exactly at the edge. Everyone seems to be taking the properties of MetaKnight and applying to every other character. How does that work? That's like saying that Ness's Bair and Falcon's Fair are the same, therefore Falcon's airs are equal to Ness's.

What I mean is, if you grab someone way before the edge, and you are CG them towards the edge, that I don't think you can space your grabs as to alter your position significantly as you move forward. If you grab someone at a particular part of FD, how do you know you will end up exactly at the edge instead of spaced further back when you are at the end of the CG string? If you aren't right at the edge, and you release them and they go too far for a regrab, then I would think the spike would miss on the characters you can do it on the edge to.

I have no idea what the CF Knee and Ness Bair metaphor was about, I was talking about Yoshi's positioning while he is CGing lol. :/

 

[Mmac]

Well Yoshi always slides forward when Chaingrabbing people, so that means he really doesn't need to space at all to end up right on the ledge. Also, Yoshi can grab them past the ledge also. Ending up on the very ledge is probably the most common place they're going to end up in. MetaKnight is the only one that actually needs spacing as you need to be near the edge, but not right on it for the spike to work. Thats what I think when you say "Spacing" because he's the only one that actually need spacing.

Falco, along with the others (Squirtle, Ganondorf, Lucas, Snake) does NOT require spacing at all in order to spike them when Chaingrabbing (Excluding Snake, you're basically taking advantage of his linear recovery, taking away his double jump and force a Cypher recovery, which you grab him out of to kill him.)

 

[Olimarman]

D3>Snake

Few reasons, his chaingrab wrecks Snake, hes heavy so he doesn't die as early as other characters, hes strong so he can kill Snake faster than other characters, he has a great offstage game with Snake, he just has too many advantages over Snake.

 

[Mmac]

He can escape the Chaingrab with a Grenade, can't he?

 

[NinjaLink]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fxwgKdJS4k

This is why D3 beats snake

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIBt1KQqWII another ending. Look at comeback. Its effortless what D3 has to do to win this matchup.

 

[Darth JoBak]

please reexamine the zelda matchups, they appear very outdated

 

[Miller]

Ivan, I completely disagree with the matchup of Marth vs Iceys, It's in now way in Marth's favour. Marth must always be close to iceys to attack, and his forward smash has to be perfectly spaced to beat Iceys Blizzard. Marth is by far one of the easiest to CG, and Desync against. It should be Iceys advantage. PM me if you wish to discuss this more.

 

[Snowstalker]

The Yoshi matchups really need to be dusted off. Yoshi and PT mainers agree that Yoshi completely ***** Squirtle, but it's still a neutral. Same thing with Wario.

 

[Koskinator]

I really dont see how Ganon vs Sheik is neutral. Sheik can combo and edgeguard the **** out of ganon.

 

[gantrain05]

I really dont see how Ganon vs Sheik is neutral. Sheik can combo and edgeguard the **** out of ganon.

and ganon can choke>choke>choke>choke>choke>choke>choke>............wizards foot...end.

 

[BladeWise]

lol sheik can do whatever she wants to ganon and he's basically helpless.

 

[Judge Judy]

I said the same thing about Mario but nobody listened...

 

[Mario_ 101]

wow this thread is pointless then if people don't listen

 

[Jigglymaster]

zomg this topic is on the second page. I could find it for a molment. So bump.

why isn't it stickied.

 

[Clai]

Yeah, it's pretty much common knowledge that Sheik destroys Ganondorf.

As does Peach.

I still have no idea why ROB has a huge advantage over Ganondorf. There is really nothing about Ganondorf that would hinder him more than any other character with an uphill battle against ROB. ROB should have a minimum advantage, if any at all.

 

[adumbrodeus]

zomg this topic is on the second page. I could find it for a molment. So bump.

why isn't it stickied.

Because it's completely outdated and has bias issues.

Unlike the other match-up chart.

 

[Darth JoBak]

wolf = DK or even >DK

 

[choknater]

Sheik is 100:0 against Ganondorf ^___________^