Brawl Character Match-Up chart

[Morrigan]

What did u expect?

What do I expect? To see an update.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

What do I expect? To see an update.

Well then...in 3 month maybe?

 

[4Serial]

I was surprised to see that the list is fairly accurate. Good job. ^^
For the Link match up however:
I think that Diddy might have the advantage since his ground game is so strong and his stage control beats Link with his bananas.
I think that the Luigi match up isn't in Link's advantage. It's either even or disadvantage.. I don't know, maybe I don't know how to play against Luigis.
Against Marth, I'm never really sure. Most Links would say that the match up is even, and most Marths would say that Link is at a disadvantage. It's probably 55:45 in Marth's favor.
I think that it's pretty even vs Ness, but the grab release thing on Ness really hurts him.
The Pikachu match up is either even or a disadvantage for Link.
ROB is an even match up.
I'm not sure how Sonic has the advantage in this match up. Enlighten me?
I think that Toon Link has the advantage vs Link. So should Wario..
I'm not very educated in the match up vs Zelda and ZSS, but I would love to know why Link is at a disadvantage.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Sonic has the advantage because he is very adept at getting up close where Link is weakest. the projectile spam is easily dealt with nd his edge guard hurts Link very badly.

I should know I main them both.

 

[DMG]

Wario goes even with IC's. It says that on the IC matchup thread, and it says that in the Wario matchup thread.

 

[gantrain05]

saying it isnt hard for metaknight to approach snake is the most ******** statement i've ever heard, there is not a single character that doesn't have trouble approaching a good snake, i don't care how fast you think meta is, he can't just walk thru mines, grenades, nikitas, and then Ftilt/Utilt/AAA combo waiting at the end of it all, snake has stage control in this matchup, and snakes kill moves have so much speed and power its impossible to dodge them all.

 

[QuantumCat]

My Opinions:

// Things to look into \/
Marth > Shiek? IMO Marths bigger reach puts him at a big enough advantage to say he wins 60/40 or 70/30
Olimar > Snake? Olimars larger standing reach gives him the advantage. Plus, he wins in the air.
Luigi > Shiek I think this is one of those weird counters like in melee. In melee luigi countered space animals due to his extreme floatyness. In brawl, sheik cant **** as hard with tilts because weegee'd DI+floatyness lets him get away.
Donkey Kong > Olimar? Even
Falco < Marth? Uninformed
Metaknight > Snake? I know im going to get flamed for this, but imo Snake > meta. Gernade spam owns meta. Plus mining and c4ing edges destroys his shuttle loop recov.

I came to this thread from the Teir List discussion thread. I was wondering how one would get a ranking list from this chart. The way i see it is like this. Assign each matchup a value.
Bold X = -3
Normal X = -2
Even matchup= 0
Check = 2
Bold Check = 3

Using this you would find an overall power level for each character.
For example, bowser would be a -58. He sucks that bad.
If we found this total for each character, we could order them in a fasion that may depict teirs. Im not saying this would be at all definitive.

 

[mood4food77]

ok

ZSS is a wario counter, along with yoshi, both are very bad for wario, the grab release thing is basically the reason why

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

ok

ZSS is a wario counter, along with yoshi, both are very bad for wario, the grab release thing is basically the reason why

it's really THAT game breaking? because, I mean, Wario was a solid ZSS counter before... does the grab release really shift the balance THAT much!?!

 

[mood4food77]

yes

it really does

 

[GodAtHand]

I honestly don't see really good wario's get grabbed often...

IMO I owuld say Neutral for both

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I honestly don't see really good wario's get grabbed often...

IMO I owuld say Neutral for both

I'd have to agree... especially since ZSS has such an AWFUL AWFUL grab, and will get absolutely ***** if she whiffs

I mean... Wario beat ZSS, and HARD before... so the balance would have to REALLY shift a LOT to give ther the advatage

 

[mood4food77]

the problem is not getting grabbed

so i exaggerated a little bit...it still sucks to get into an infinite

it's like DK against D3, without the infinite, this match-up would be a lot more even

for wario, without the infinite,the match-ups would be in his favor...

and what wario's are really good besides reflex and futile?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

^ Blue Shell?

 

[mood4food77]

never heard of him

 

[~ Gheb ~]

What? He's a member of SWF -_-

 

[mood4food77]

so are you and so am i?

do you think i honostly know everyone on here, i never heard of you before just now

i'm not denying how good he is, i'm just saying i've never heard of him

 

[~ Gheb ~]

He isn't as good as Futile or Reflex...that's for sure...

 

[Shök]

My Opinions:



I came to this thread from the Teir List discussion thread. I was wondering how one would get a ranking list from this chart. The way i see it is like this. Assign each matchup a value.
Bold X = -3
Normal X = -2
Even matchup= 0
Check = 2
Bold Check = 3

Using this you would find an overall power level for each character.
For example, bowser would be a -58. He sucks that bad.
If we found this total for each character, we could order them in a fasion that may depict teirs. Im not saying this would be at all definitive.

I think I did this already, but the thread's gone.

what about ganon, he doesn't have one good match up.

and you can't truly call them tiers, then mr game and watch would be god tier and everyone else wouldn't come close.

 

[gantrain05]

I think I did this already, but the thread's gone.

what about ganon, he doesn't have one good match up.

and you can't truly call them tiers, then mr game and watch would be god tier and everyone else wouldn't come close.

ganon does pretty decent vs lucario actually, but on another note.

what does everyone think of the matchup peach vs wario? i've done this match alot of times as a peach main, and every match is pretty close.

 

[mood4food77]

i lied about wario

only yoshi's infinite is useful

 

[Wogrim]

My Opinions:



I came to this thread from the Teir List discussion thread. I was wondering how one would get a ranking list from this chart. The way i see it is like this. Assign each matchup a value.
Bold X = -3
Normal X = -2
Even matchup= 0
Check = 2
Bold Check = 3

Using this you would find an overall power level for each character.
For example, bowser would be a -58. He sucks that bad.
If we found this total for each character, we could order them in a fasion that may depict teirs. Im not saying this would be at all definitive.

Bold X = -3, Normal X = -2, Check = 2, and Bold Check = 3 are very crude ways to measure it. It would be better to measure expected win % against each character to see their overall usefulness against the rest of the cast, and to use a weighted sum of those percents based on character frequency in tournaments to see which characters should be doing the best in tournaments.

 

[cutter]

DDD's matchups really need to get a major overhaul IMO. There is NO WAY he has that many bad matchups; yet he is a force to be reckoned with in tourneys.

 

[gantrain05]

DDD's matchups really need to get a major overhaul IMO. There is NO WAY he has that many bad matchups; yet he is a force to be reckoned with in tourneys.

its the chaingrab, if he didn't have that he has nothin.

 

[Negative Zero]

I'm still pretty skeptical about the idea that Metaknight is countered by exactly one character, and that that character is DK. What does DK have that is so great against Metaknight that he gets that coveted blue check mark?

 

[Yonder]

I'm still pretty skeptical about the idea that Metaknight is countered by exactly one character, and that that character is DK. What does DK have that is so great against Metaknight that he gets that coveted blue check mark?

I'm not exactly sure, but I say MK has NO bad matchups.

KO power and meteor smashes on him? I dunno.

 

[QuantumCat]

Bold X = -3, Normal X = -2, Check = 2, and Bold Check = 3 are very crude ways to measure it. It would be better to measure expected win % against each character to see their overall usefulness against the rest of the cast, and to use a weighted sum of those percents based on character frequency in tournaments to see which characters should be doing the best in tournaments.

So, if we gathered from each forum the win ratios (50/50, 60/40, 70/30 etc) we could use those. If we go through with this we could do in in excel easily. We have one row for each character, with a column for each of their matchups. We have another column which shows the popularity of each character in high level play. We could use the # of top8 appearances or something. Then we weight each characters matchup with the characters popularity (so going 60/40 with a popular char is worth 65 "matchup points". And going 60/40 with an unpopular char becomes 55 "matchup points. ) Then you average the "matchup points" each character has, and you will end up with a single number. Then you make a list or whatever. How does that sound?

 

[Tien2500]

Is charizard at a disadvantage against Ness? Doesn't charizard infinite him?

 

[Tien2500]

I mean neutral.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

So, if we gathered from each forum the win ratios (50/50, 60/40, 70/30 etc) we could use those. If we go through with this we could do in in excel easily. We have one row for each character, with a column for each of their matchups. We have another column which shows the popularity of each character in high level play. We could use the # of top8 appearances or something. Then we weight each characters matchup with the characters popularity (so going 60/40 with a popular char is worth 65 "matchup points". And going 60/40 with an unpopular char becomes 55 "matchup points. ) Then you average the "matchup points" each character has, and you will end up with a single number. Then you make a list or whatever. How does that sound?

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.php?board=928518&topic=45101991

Done already.

 

[M.K]

Just out of curiosity, not arguing any side here, what does DK have over Meta-Knight? Priority?

 

[Mmac]

Just out of curiosity, not arguing any side here, what does DK have over Meta-Knight? Priority?

I think it's priority and range. He has decent speed also

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Yoshi has an advantage over Snake.

It's called Blackmail.

 

[Pose]

Great! This is useful.

 

[DanGR]

It's about time for Olimar to get the big check on Link and Ike.

Olimar's projectiles eliminate Link's projectile game, forcing him to approach rather aggressively. Pikmin stop arrows and the boomerang, and if a pikmin is attached to link when he has a bomb in his hand and he throws, the bomb will explode in his face.

Link isn't good at being very aggresive. He's too slow and lacks safe approaching. Both Link's rising and falling fair, bair, dair, and upair can be shieldgrabbed easily. This eliminates air approaches. His zair can be used to approach safely against most characters, but the pikmin force him to be too aggressive. He can't take the time to play the spacing game on Oli. Everything points towards a large advantage for Oli. here's a video I dug up of an Olimar against arguably the best Link in the world-two stocked: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5twIZY-Jrnw&feature=related It's not a very good example, but it shows how bad it is.

Ike has nothing on Olimar. Seriously. It's very pitiful to watch. He's got NO safe approaches, a range disadvantage on the ground, and an easily gimped recovery in throwing pikmin at his sideb. (he hits the pikmin) Ask any Olimainer or Ike mainer. It's sad.

 

[Mmac]

Wow? He updated it?

Yet I still see Yoshi still getting the Shaft -_ -

 

[MysticKenji]

Ike has nothing on Olimar.

Air range, power, priority, weight

He's got NO safe approaches,

Since when is this matchup specific?

a range disadvantage on the ground,

Which can be worked around.

and an easily gimped recovery in throwing pikmin at his sideb. (he hits the pikmin)

If Ike uses QD to recover, he deserves to die.

 

[cutter]

Wow? He updated it?

Yet I still see Yoshi still getting the Shaft -_ -

That's nothing. Look at DDD's matchups. God they're so inaccurate I don't know where to begin.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Air range, power, priority, weight

Too bad his speed is so low that getting his air range, power and priority to be an advantage means very little.
its like having a OHKO move. Yeah you have it, but can you land it?
No, Ike cannot.

Since when is this matchup specific?

It is Olimar vs Ike.

Which can be worked around.

Really?
Considering that Ike has to approach most of the tie and being on the ground for too long is a no go, that elaves the air. Which is also somewhat of a no go because his aerial speed isn't exactly good and while he does have range, Olimar is still going to be difficult to hit due to the startup time of is moves.

bair doesn't do much Olimar is very short so landing a Bair is difficult and risky.

If Ike uses QD to recover, he deserves to die.

Agreed though he's still boned since Olimar can just wait a little away from the ledge for Ike to come back up.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

That's nothing. Look at DDD's matchups. God they're so inaccurate I don't know where to begin.

Top Tier:
Metaknight: 52.5 points
Mr. G&W: 51 points
Marth: 50.5 points

High Tier:
Toon Link: 48 points
R.O.B: 47.5 points
Pit: 46.5 points
Snake: 46.5 points
Falco: 46 points
Zelda: 44.5 points
Wolf: 41 points
Olimar: 40.5 points
Pikachu: 40 points

Middle Tier:
Ice Climbers: 38.5 points
Lucario: 37 points
Zero suit Samus: 37 points
Wario: 36.5 points
Kirby: 35.5 points
Diddy Kong: 31 points
Lucas: 31 points
Donkey Kong: 30.5 points
Sheik: 30.5 points
Fox: 29.5 points

Low Tier:
King Dedede: 28 points
Ivysaur: 27 points
Ness: 25 points
Link: 24 points
Sonic: 23.5 points
Peach: 22.5 points
Squirtle: 22 points
Luigi: 21.5 points
ike: 20 points

Bottom Tier
Mario: 18.5 points
Charizard: 14.5 points
Samus:14.5 points
Jigglypuff: 13 points
Yoshi: 13 points
Bowser: 10.5 points

****ed to Hell Tier:
Captain Falcon: 5 points
Ganondorf: 5 points


Before the 1 on tactical discussion did (I call RIP OFF!!!)
Bladepenguin (no relation......that you know of)
didit first
by making a tier list from these match ups with 1.5 for advantage 1 for neutral and 0 dor disadvantage.

DDD got owned.