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Balanced Brawl Public Preview *GENESIS UPDATE*
- Thread starter Amazing Ampharos
- Start date
- Status
stingers
Smash Obsessed
this is really fun, thanks guys ^.^
It's easy to change the codeset to replace any terrible stage, not just Hanenbow. Hanenbow was just my personal least favorite of the terribad banned stages.
See the code here:
* C26DCEE0 00000003
* A37A0022 2C1B0025
* 40820008 3B600037
* 60000000 00000000
Replace the 25 in the second line with whatever stage you want WiFi Training Room to replace.
See the code here:
* C26DCEE0 00000003
* A37A0022 2C1B0025
* 40820008 3B600037
* 60000000 00000000
Replace the 25 in the second line with whatever stage you want WiFi Training Room to replace.
T3h Albino
Smash Master
Heh d3 just can't catch a break now can he?
I mean upthrow was actually pretty good in vbrawl leading into a uair at very low percents and potentially leading into a kill with characters who aren't very good in the air *falco,wolf,diddy kong*. Oh well ill probably end up trying it out of VietG brings it around, but i won't go out of my way to try it until im sure i'll like it. Looks like im picking up a NEW, NEW main ;B
I mean upthrow was actually pretty good in vbrawl leading into a uair at very low percents and potentially leading into a kill with characters who aren't very good in the air *falco,wolf,diddy kong*. Oh well ill probably end up trying it out of VietG brings it around, but i won't go out of my way to try it until im sure i'll like it. Looks like im picking up a NEW, NEW main ;B
stingers
Smash Obsessed
yeah, add the file replacement code to the next release please. pretty big oversight lol...
Actually, DDD is by no means bad in this; we actually worried we would have to somehow nerf him after the grab change, but ultimately agreed against it. Tech chasing people out of the throw is REALLY easy and almost always a guaranteed regrab on read. And of course...
BUUMAN TRAP ON EVERYONE.
(Well, except perhaps Luigi and Lucario)
GA Peach
Smash Lord
this is interesting. i'd like to try this sometime. the thought on increased knockback on Peach's f-smashes, and Ike being viable are big pluses for me.
NintenJoe
Smash Ace
providing a simple and easy step-by-step guide on installation would definitely increase usage of this program, especially to computer illiterates such as myself. I recommend making it as accessible as texture hacking.
Revven
FrankerZ
Too bad that it's against the rules to post how to install homebrew.
Go watch Youtube videos.
![[FBC] ESAM](/data/avatars/l/92/92614.jpg?1365783210){kind=avatar}
[FBC] ESAM
Smash Legend
It doesn't say anywhere what the change was to pikachu's F-throw CG. What happens to it?
You forgot to change Wario's Dthrow chaingrab on DK, Wolf, and some other character's that lasts from like 0-100%. The easiest way to fix it would be to either slow down his grab by 1-2 frames or make it do more knockback/change the angle. I love what you guys did with Ganondorf. Awesome job all around.
It is slowed down a couple of frames, just one short of chaingrabbing bowser.
It's definitely worse, no doubt about it... Luckily, his other throws should have more utility. (We want lots of feedback on them!) Also, Pikachu does well on more liberal stages that are now enabled, although not as much of a benefit as others like Olimar.
I was testing this frame-by-frame and all characters but bowser were able to get out of it by spot-dodging within a one-frame window. Are you sure it's a true chaingrab? (Bowser could up-B out on that frame, too)
I gave it the old college try, and I can appreciate everything you are trying to do.
Balance was the thing that pushed me to Brawl+ in the first place.
I have been playing only Brawl+ for months now though, and going back to vBrawl physics just doesn't go over well for me
I'm so used only having floaty characters be floaty, and that's going to keep me away from this; good luck with the project either way.
Definitely include the file replacement code. Textures are always going to be a big draw for people to install the HBC, and once the HBC is installed they will be more willing to try this out. Nobody would want to lose their textures when they try this! (And most people have no idea what they are doing when it comes to creating a .gct so it would save you a lot of "how do I use textures with this" requests)
Adding on to that, I would suggest that you add the WBR's default texture pack to this as well, to be used in tournament play. It is just changes that make costumes of certain characters actually look like the color it is supposed to be for teams. It becomes clear Sonic is on red team, or green team; those kind of things.
Again, best wishes to those working closely with this project, and I hope you don't get the same flaming Brawl+ gets from people who don't even care to try something out first. It's a shame the kind of reaction these types of things get, at the very least people will probably be more open to this as it isn't nearly as radical as B+.
Balance was the thing that pushed me to Brawl+ in the first place.
I have been playing only Brawl+ for months now though, and going back to vBrawl physics just doesn't go over well for me
I'm so used only having floaty characters be floaty, and that's going to keep me away from this; good luck with the project either way.
Definitely include the file replacement code. Textures are always going to be a big draw for people to install the HBC, and once the HBC is installed they will be more willing to try this out. Nobody would want to lose their textures when they try this! (And most people have no idea what they are doing when it comes to creating a .gct so it would save you a lot of "how do I use textures with this" requests)
Adding on to that, I would suggest that you add the WBR's default texture pack to this as well, to be used in tournament play. It is just changes that make costumes of certain characters actually look like the color it is supposed to be for teams. It becomes clear Sonic is on red team, or green team; those kind of things.
Again, best wishes to those working closely with this project, and I hope you don't get the same flaming Brawl+ gets from people who don't even care to try something out first. It's a shame the kind of reaction these types of things get, at the very least people will probably be more open to this as it isn't nearly as radical as B+.
fromundaman
Henshin a go-go Baby!
This seems interesting to say the least...
I'll have to give it a try when my Wii gets fixed.
Also, I'm going to try my hardest to find every bug/exploit I can when I do try it
.
I'll have to give it a try when my Wii gets fixed.
Also, I'm going to try my hardest to find every bug/exploit I can when I do try it
.
The fthrow is slower which doesn't let it cg at all.
Anyway, installation. Well, you need some method to run Gecko OS which I can't help you with. Otherwise...
On your SD card in the root (that is, not in any folders) put the gameconfig.txt file. In the "apps" folder, put Gecko OS 1.9.1. In the "codes" folder, put the rsbe01.gct file. Now run gecko OS, and when Gecko opens, just press A a bunch (confirming the first option with default settings). Assuming you were smart enough to have Brawl in your Wii's disc drive, you should now be playing our patched version of the game.
All three of those files are in the link in the original post. I really wish I could help more, but I'm quickly nearing the limits of SWF global rules regarding these things. There are ways to run it on an unmodified Wii, but they're currently even more complicated. We really hope to be able to get things in the future to a place where everyone can run it almost as easily as standard Brawl.
Mr. Escalator
G&W Guru
I finished up 2v2ing with AmazingAmpharos, Steeler, and others, and I am loving this so much. The water is radically different, but I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing. It keeps awareness on your percent when playing on Delfino and such, and Pirate Ship is more than playable. Yoshi is fun, Ike's recovery is nifty, and Ganon is ridiculously better than he was. Luigi is pretty cool with his fast fireballs and dash attack as well.
AA showed us an easter egg, and all I will say is that it involves Mario. Kudos if you can find what they did!
AA showed us an easter egg, and all I will say is that it involves Mario. Kudos if you can find what they did!
It is character specific and it works for sure on DK. At 0% Wario gets a 5 frame advantage on DK and has a 6 frame grab so spot dodging doesn't work. This can be done until about 120%. A DK at 90% can jump away from a fresh Wario Dthrow but if they start at lower %'s then it will be stale enough to last until like 120%.
EDIT: Whoops you say you slowed it down. I didn't see that in Wario's changelist. My bad.
EDIT2: Lol disregard my first edit. I tried it out frame by frame too. It doesn't take longer to grab behind you when you buffer the grab so I don't know why our results differ. Could you retry with DK? I think it works on Wolf too.
clowsui
Smash Legend
snake is going to break this game rofl
reduce kb on ftilt and hitstun on jab 1 2 3 and it'll be okay
reduce kb on ftilt and hitstun on jab 1 2 3 and it'll be okay
MysticKenji
Smash Master
BigLøu
Smash Lord
this looks prettyn eat o_O.
ill have to try it out sometime
ill have to try it out sometime
Our internal testing suggests that Snake, more than most of the standard Brawl top characters, really doesn't like the low tier buffs. However, it is true that we had limited quality Snakes helping with the internal testing; hopefully some solid public playtesting will let us know where Snake stands now, be it at the very top or somewhere lower.
Snake really hates Ivysaur being good, FYI.
NintenJoe
Smash Ace
how much do the MK nerfs affect gameplay? Do low tier characters stand a chance now?
clowsui
Smash Legend
Alright, thanks AA
Rykoshet
Smash Champion
Wow yeah this kinda piques my interest.
I'm glad to answer this, because we are extremely pleased with where Meta Knight is right now.
If you expect Meta Knight to be a pushover, you are in for a sad surprise. All the things that made MK good before are still there, from the general things like speed and priority to little things that are a big deal like invincibility on up-b. All that was removed was the key elements that took him beyond a good character and effectively gave him no weaknesses.
D-smash being nerfed even slightly is a big deal. Along with the up-b nerf, that means that MK has trouble killing, similar to say Toon Link but not to the extent of say Sonic. MK really has to focus on consistency now, and really going for those gimps when he gets the chance.
The tornado change is also important for a lot of characters, even though the move isn't very different. It's still just as high priority, it's still just as safe, and it's still just as amazing against shields... However, not it spits people out instead of doing tons of damage; them means spamming nado is no longer an effective strategy. Also, since it doesn't knock down on the final hit, it simply isn't that good of a move on Luigi's Mansion or Skyworld anymore.
All of our testers, including Meta Knight mains, have enjoyed the new MK. Most MK players should find that all the reasons they choose Meta Knight to play are still there, and stand out more than before in the absence of nado spam and easy KOs. I'm willing to bet MK is still at least high-tier in this changeset.
Kit Cal-N
Smash Ace
I was one of the testers on this, and I gotta say, it nails everything it wants to.
We have friends who like Brawl, but don't play competitively and just can't keep up with us in friendlies. They pretty much stopped playing.
So, we turn this on, and suddenly they're all over it! They're not winning consistently still, but they don't feel terrible about playing Lucas/Captain Falcon.
What more, when they're not around, we play regular to keep in tournament shape.
With no problems
Every character is fun to play. That's the important part.
This is flat-out better than real Brawl.
We have friends who like Brawl, but don't play competitively and just can't keep up with us in friendlies. They pretty much stopped playing.
So, we turn this on, and suddenly they're all over it! They're not winning consistently still, but they don't feel terrible about playing Lucas/Captain Falcon.
What more, when they're not around, we play regular to keep in tournament shape.
With no problems
Every character is fun to play. That's the important part.
This is flat-out better than real Brawl.
Frolossus
Smash Lord
can there be a tier list for this or is it too balanced?
Blank Mauser
Smash Champion
I do like the changes with Sonic. Especially the spring gimp, but I think there are moves more deserving for damage buffs. Dash attack was a good one, but Sonic really lands grabs and and Fair way more often then say Dair.
Also, just curious as to why Fox and DK have been left unchanged. It feels as though they don't fit in with the rest of unchanged chars. Wondering what these "outside buffs" are.
That being said, this project is certainly interesting.
Also, just curious as to why Fox and DK have been left unchanged. It feels as though they don't fit in with the rest of unchanged chars. Wondering what these "outside buffs" are.
That being said, this project is certainly interesting.
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
While I wish... hacking the wii probably is never gonna be the standard. Why couldn't Sakurai have done this....
SAKURAI!!! *shakes fist*
There is always a tier list, since nothing can ever be balanced perfectly for all characters for all players.
However, the best we can do is balance to the point where no one is able to agree on tiers.
We are already seeing a little of this. Testers' "tier lists" are in many cases very different. Like, I think Wario is probably the best character. Ampharos thinks it is someone else. I've heard Ike, Pokemon Trianer, Mketa Knight (lol), and even Link be considered the "best" character in recent versions. Further testing may very well yield even more diverse opinions!
For the millionth time, we look forward to what everyone thinks.
Revven
FrankerZ
Sakurai can't patch the game because of this:
http://hackmii.com/2009/02/why-the-wii-will-never-get-any-better/
And Sakurai is just a ******* as a whole so there you go.
Turbo Ether
Smash Master
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2006
- Messages
- 3,601
Can't you do the same thing to New Pork City, that you did to Hyrule Temple?
Not being able to be infinited/psuedo-infinited by other characters is a BIG DEAL.
That said, I'm going to look more into this Wario cg. I might have been inputting commands to Wario wrong.
We viewed this project as continuing the balancing process that Sakurai started. There's a quote somewhere about how he "could balance and improve the game forever, but sadly we have to release sometime".
Just as Sakurai made mistakes that he would likely correct given more testing, we are human too. We have made changes that testers (and each other!) did not like, and had to try something different. It is surprising how hard it is!
Funny story: When trying different things to fix Falco, I once accidentally made his b-throw into an inescapable chainthrow better than his old one! It's very, very easy to do things by accident, and just goes to show you how important testing is. When I met Sakurai, he stressed the importance of making sure all these parameters in the game are just right and how he would stay up late working towards the never-ending goal of balance.
With your help, we can all proceed further down that never-ending road.
Yeah I just retested it and the Wario chain grab on DK is impossible to escape. It is only jump breakable anywhere from 90-140% based on how stale the Dthrow is.
Thanks, I'll disable the damage to get some good frame nubmers on that d-throw animation, and I'll test to see how many frames longer it needs to be to avoid re-grab. Should be just 2, by my reckoning, possibly 3.
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