CyberHyperPhoenix
"Download Complete."
Early opinions. And like I said, it was just to get the discussion going
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Meta Australian Smash 4 General Ruleset Discussion
- Thread starter Attila_
- Start date
The top platform is also dangerously close to the top blast zone too.
I can also see circle camping being an issue there.
And juggling is buffed, since platforms make it much harder to get down once your opponent throws you up.
As an aside, captain falcon apparently has infinites on everyone with his custom lighting falcon kick...
http://gfycat.com/CleanFairBaboon
The footstool is untechable, and the multi hit nature of the moves acts as a jab lock, so you can't roll out. supposedly works on all characters, but some are harder to do than others.
gg.
http://gfycat.com/CleanFairBaboon
The footstool is untechable, and the multi hit nature of the moves acts as a jab lock, so you can't roll out. supposedly works on all characters, but some are harder to do than others.
gg.
Lex__
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2014
- Messages
- 231
So the question is, how much damage does this do. (obv its banned im just wondering)
Also at this point do we ban individual moves, or the use of these moves for infinites?
If it's a jab lock, he should be able to get away after the third hit. Counting in that clip seems pretty hard, but it looks like he rolls away on the fourth attempt.
Also Ganon is releasing from the electric animation and getting footstooled on the jump animation. Is that really how it'll play out 100% of the time?
Actually wait, yeah, I don't believe the jab lock counter is being activated if you footstool things in between. Wouldn't really be a problem on stages with platforms though.
Attila really going hard on finding any reason he can to ban things universally so that characters don't have approach options against DHD.
Also Ganon is releasing from the electric animation and getting footstooled on the jump animation. Is that really how it'll play out 100% of the time?
Actually wait, yeah, I don't believe the jab lock counter is being activated if you footstool things in between. Wouldn't really be a problem on stages with platforms though.
Attila really going hard on finding any reason he can to ban things universally so that characters don't have approach options against DHD.
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I dropped DHD. I don't think he's that great at this point. He's like snake with a terrible CQC game.
Pretty sure the jab lock counter is reset by the footstool, since the character leaves the ground.
Pretty sure the jab lock counter is reset by the footstool, since the character leaves the ground.
Redact
Professional Nice Guy
its not hard to replicate that. while finding a situation for it is a bit harder than you would think, it's still pretty dumb.
I'd move to ban that move alone rather than just custom moves obviously
I'd move to ban that move alone rather than just custom moves obviously
Venks
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2007
- Messages
- 375
- NNID
- VenksUSA
I don't understand. Melee and Brawl both have infinites that are allowed. Why is Smash 4 not allowed to have infinites?
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A lot of characters have electric properties on custom specials (and otherwise) though.
I would hope Pikachu cannot infinite people with his thunder wave (neutral b replacement that goes half distance but stuns like ZSS' laser/down smash).
I would hope Pikachu cannot infinite people with his thunder wave (neutral b replacement that goes half distance but stuns like ZSS' laser/down smash).
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This only works on FD or the top platform a stage (and probably not even then; I don't think you have room to do this on a battlefield platform), and isn't super free to set up. More importantly, it's Captain Falcon.
Do we really need to ban this?
Lets look at the other infinites we have legal in past games;
Melee; The only infinite where the victim has 0 input control is Wobbling and Fox's Shine Locks (only works against a wall, or on characters like C.Falcon that you can Shine forever if you have amazing control).
Brawl; D3 had several Dthrow infinites, IC's had their Chaingrab and apart from that I believe there were only character specific infinites? (Wario grab release shenanigans, Pikachu vs. Fox, etc.) Shaya needs to remind me about Diddy Kong banana infinites I forget how much impact they actually had.
All the above were legal, only Wobbling was banned for a point.
This is apparently NOT character specific, but by the looks of it, it is stage specific.
idc either way, but for what it's worth I don't actually expect this to get banned in America, unless we're taking the heaviest-handed approach yet to gameplay and rulesets with smash 4.
Do we really need to ban this?
Lets look at the other infinites we have legal in past games;
Melee; The only infinite where the victim has 0 input control is Wobbling and Fox's Shine Locks (only works against a wall, or on characters like C.Falcon that you can Shine forever if you have amazing control).
Brawl; D3 had several Dthrow infinites, IC's had their Chaingrab and apart from that I believe there were only character specific infinites? (Wario grab release shenanigans, Pikachu vs. Fox, etc.) Shaya needs to remind me about Diddy Kong banana infinites I forget how much impact they actually had.
All the above were legal, only Wobbling was banned for a point.
This is apparently NOT character specific, but by the looks of it, it is stage specific.
idc either way, but for what it's worth I don't actually expect this to get banned in America, unless we're taking the heaviest-handed approach yet to gameplay and rulesets with smash 4.
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Oh, yeah,
we don't ban "infinites" for the sake of them being infinites.
Falcon is pretty good in this game though Splice. I personally really really love that electric kick, think it's golden/glorious and actually makes down b useful in a game for once (CRAZY).
The spacing of the kick looks stupendously finicky though. At any different height or position, you could kick straight down into them, likely not locking them. Ganondorf's height/size makes him more of a beacon for it too.
While footstool "sizes" seem to be bigger in this game (I'm footstooling folks a lot more often than in Brawl; based TAP JUMP ON), I really don't see the scenario where a character's going to jump in the air while falcon's above them like that at a height suitable for the down b to angle correctly in the ground to avoid the sweetspot while not inputting any other move whatsoever to deny any footstool animation on yourself.
If a Falcon up aired someone into this full hop footstool lock, then I'd maybe be worried. But I doubt that will ever be feasible. Nothing else he has sends opponents straight up in a way thats comboable at all (down tilt/up tilt/etc). Perhaps the electric stun of the move will allow the set up in and of itself.
we don't ban "infinites" for the sake of them being infinites.
Falcon is pretty good in this game though Splice. I personally really really love that electric kick, think it's golden/glorious and actually makes down b useful in a game for once (CRAZY).
The spacing of the kick looks stupendously finicky though. At any different height or position, you could kick straight down into them, likely not locking them. Ganondorf's height/size makes him more of a beacon for it too.
While footstool "sizes" seem to be bigger in this game (I'm footstooling folks a lot more often than in Brawl; based TAP JUMP ON), I really don't see the scenario where a character's going to jump in the air while falcon's above them like that at a height suitable for the down b to angle correctly in the ground to avoid the sweetspot while not inputting any other move whatsoever to deny any footstool animation on yourself.
If a Falcon up aired someone into this full hop footstool lock, then I'd maybe be worried. But I doubt that will ever be feasible. Nothing else he has sends opponents straight up in a way thats comboable at all (down tilt/up tilt/etc). Perhaps the electric stun of the move will allow the set up in and of itself.
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I think Brawl kept infinites because we had so many others things that needed to be banned more.
Redact
Professional Nice Guy
you can set it up off dthrow at 0-25% pretty easily on like any character.
dthrow - dash forward - footstool - air down+b - ect ect...
i think ill just start practicing it so people get sad
dthrow - dash forward - footstool - air down+b - ect ect...
i think ill just start practicing it so people get sad
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Oh yeah, down throw!
Let's see how this goes then~
Let's see how this goes then~
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Regardless of what people do I just hope you realise this isn't grounds to ban the custom move; you ban players from repeating the infinite if it turns out to be too oppressive.
Worst case scenario everyone just plays C.Falcon, don't really see a problem.
Worst case scenario everyone just plays C.Falcon, don't really see a problem.
S.D
Smash Master
Eh, for all the conjecture that inevitably arises when some new 'infinite' is discovered, how practical are they, like ever? I remember practicing some footstool soft bair reset thing with Peach in Brawl thinking it was going to break the game only to find it next to impossible to setup/make work at all in competitive play. If someone pulled this off in tournament I'd be screaming my nuts off not asking for it to be banned.
Redact
Professional Nice Guy
the difference is this one gets set up off a single dthrow from falcon pretty easily.
I wasn't aware of the infinite, but i was already labbing with footstool off dthrow the other day and its super easy to land, before i was just doing regular falcon kick/falling nair off it, but this is real deal stuff now lol.
I wasn't aware of the infinite, but i was already labbing with footstool off dthrow the other day and its super easy to land, before i was just doing regular falcon kick/falling nair off it, but this is real deal stuff now lol.
for the record I never thought IC's chain grabs were entertaining.
Keen to see how reliable this dthrow -> footstool setup actually is.
Do you have to read their DI, and also what %'s?
This wouldn't be the first time there's a character where you play the "if you're below 40%, just stay on platforms coz you don't wanna get grabbed". Like Kirby's gatling combo in Brawl; Get grabbed at 0% and that's 50% damage right there.
Get grabbed at 20% and he can't do anything. Obvs this does more than 50% but you get my point.
it would've been better for hype if I said "Attila's such an ******, why are you even watching this on youtube. This is craptastic", right?
Listening to Afropony gave me some mad nostalgia tho
the best of times
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Redact
Professional Nice Guy
Its a very escapable infinite with footstools. The footstool seems to be di-able and the kick needs phenomenal spacing to just stun rather than pick up. Its pretty easy to DI and they don't have time to react.
Video is fraud back to vanilla falcon
Video is fraud back to vanilla falcon
I ****ing knew it.
Jamwa
Smash Champion
good thing all the brawl infinites on fox vs pika, ness/lucas v anyone, ICs, etc were banned and no1 was hindered in tournaments /s
let me be salty
let me be salty
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Banning ICs chaingrab in brawl would essentially make them useless; even with it, they still weren't as big an issue as mk.
ness/lucas were still low tier even without chaingrabs.
I do feel sorry for fox, but it would be hard to help him without removing all other chaingrabs. And then things start getting really messy.
@
Gords
: Come at me bro
ness/lucas were still low tier even without chaingrabs.
I do feel sorry for fox, but it would be hard to help him without removing all other chaingrabs. And then things start getting really messy.
@
Gords
: Come at me bro
Nahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, ICs are cancer. MK is an infectious disease. Just need a good dose of penicillin for one, but need to quit out due to no cure for the other.
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I agree with Shaya; there was a point when playing and dealing with MK was actually fun.
Ain't nobody sane having a good time against an Ice Climbers player.
This is not about that though;
Smash4 - So far so good, only infinite that exists right now is ZSS vs. Robin??
Ain't nobody sane having a good time against an Ice Climbers player.
This is not about that though;
Smash4 - So far so good, only infinite that exists right now is ZSS vs. Robin??
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Rosalina has infinites on Captain Falcon and Sheik. Default moveset though.
Lets ban Rosalina.
Lets ban Rosalina.
That looks super DI-able though. Suuuuurely.
Also, does it only start with sheik/falcon just above the ground?
EverAlert
Smash Master
i don't l0l
S.D
Smash Master
THat was the issue with Brawl footstool infinites, too easy to DI. You could still follow up, if you were some kind of frame perfect god.
Agreed, but even better would be to just ban the moves use as an infinite
It was patched afaik
ok so basically big hueg overreaction, kool
CyberHyperPhoenix
"Download Complete."
This reminds me of Gambit's infinite in Marvel vs Capcom 1.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeT1rN4MLX0
Pretty sure you can DI (or VI... whatever) out of it though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeT1rN4MLX0
Pretty sure you can DI (or VI... whatever) out of it though.
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That whole jab thing is complete bull**** and won't work
But I just realised Rosalina probably has grab release into Usmash set ups with Luma on the whole cast
Yes.
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S.D
Smash Master
Can someone link me a video of Rosalina being good? I can see it in theory but haven't seen it in practice.
CyberHyperPhoenix
"Download Complete."
Rosalina being good?
Do they even exist?
Do they even exist?
Rosalina just places her luma to be a shield, to be a combo breaker, to be a wall, to be a free hitbox producer. Then if you get past that she has dash attack, which is dumb huge, all of her aerials being galaxy size huge, and pretty good tilts/smashes/jabs herself. All of her stuff is punishable on shield, but Luma can be in a really good position to stop you from capitalising always.You have to respect Luma because it doesn't necessarily suffer hitstun like a normal character would, and also has excessively good kill power, like the 100%ish range on BOWSER.
I spotted a Rosalina online today and lost with Falco and Pikachu I think. Pikachu only really losing because roll to smash attack isn't a viable thing on him, but it is on like half the cast on wifi, sad faces. But then the glory that is MR GAME AND WATCH came to mind. Holy crap G&W probably beats Rosalina hard. All of his aerials out prioritise Luma and Rosalina's **** completely, back air on luma is actually using Luma against Rosalina to your benefit, it's sexy. And then that down smash, so good for killing rollers. I think I may have to drop Pikachu as my wifilagskillrollfaggottester and move over to G&W, I think I tried the idea before but probably lost to some character in a way I didn't see a reliable means of dealing with so I was like lolnup can't lead with him. BUT IF I CAN JUST JUMP AND BACK AIR TOWARDS ROSALINA AND NOT GIVE A ****, I'll take that risk. I think most Japanese players know my name by heart by now and just automatically quit out because they don't want to deal with Pikachu :<, every time I see a familiar hiragana/katakana name they quit out, lol.
Also XX10 Splice Air strategies so good. They like buffed down airing to the ground.
G&W is definitely in my current secondary rotation. I probably enjoy him a lot more than I enjoy Meta Knight right now. Definitely a much easier aerial control monster than spacing down airs into dash grab, really janky smashes again, possibly even jankier than in Brawl.
I'm probably avoiding him the mostly because he really doesn't need/want any variations in his custom specials, other than SPEED CHEF. The 1/9 judgement thing is pretty meh, it's draws 1 90% of the time anyway, definitely not the "LOL" I was expecting, but he doesn't really need that, the one that gives him "number drawn" x Hits is probably the most useful realistically, good B-reversing, good spot dodge beater, air to ground/ground to air np np.
I spotted a Rosalina online today and lost with Falco and Pikachu I think. Pikachu only really losing because roll to smash attack isn't a viable thing on him, but it is on like half the cast on wifi, sad faces. But then the glory that is MR GAME AND WATCH came to mind. Holy crap G&W probably beats Rosalina hard. All of his aerials out prioritise Luma and Rosalina's **** completely, back air on luma is actually using Luma against Rosalina to your benefit, it's sexy. And then that down smash, so good for killing rollers. I think I may have to drop Pikachu as my wifilagskillrollfaggottester and move over to G&W, I think I tried the idea before but probably lost to some character in a way I didn't see a reliable means of dealing with so I was like lolnup can't lead with him. BUT IF I CAN JUST JUMP AND BACK AIR TOWARDS ROSALINA AND NOT GIVE A ****, I'll take that risk. I think most Japanese players know my name by heart by now and just automatically quit out because they don't want to deal with Pikachu :<, every time I see a familiar hiragana/katakana name they quit out, lol.
Also XX10 Splice Air strategies so good. They like buffed down airing to the ground.
G&W is definitely in my current secondary rotation. I probably enjoy him a lot more than I enjoy Meta Knight right now. Definitely a much easier aerial control monster than spacing down airs into dash grab, really janky smashes again, possibly even jankier than in Brawl.
I'm probably avoiding him the mostly because he really doesn't need/want any variations in his custom specials, other than SPEED CHEF. The 1/9 judgement thing is pretty meh, it's draws 1 90% of the time anyway, definitely not the "LOL" I was expecting, but he doesn't really need that, the one that gives him "number drawn" x Hits is probably the most useful realistically, good B-reversing, good spot dodge beater, air to ground/ground to air np np.
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