Ask VMan about Yoshi Thread (A General Yoshi Discussion)

[AXE 09]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLu5972oPZc&feature=related
This is how I shield drop, and I've been doing it for so damn long lol. I'm pretty sure that there is no other way to shield drop easier than this and if there is, its not needed. I'm honestly just sure you don't know **** about that vid and think you are discovering something new when its almost 4 years old... lol!

This is how I've been shield dropping too ever since I started shield dropping lol.

This is especially good for yoshi though cuz he will never get shield stabbed for tilting his shield =)
*dunno why I said that cuz you guys already know but oh well lol ^^*

 

[leffen]

Won another tournament (regional) yesterday, yoshi 100% of the time. Had a great WF/GF set vs Pepito (3rd best falco main in europe or smth, and he knows the matchup really really really well).

vids where recorded and my other vids are coming up atm too.

 

[KAOSTAR]

post those links up, im tryna peep this epic *** yoshi.

 

[leffen]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nf7A9oXUNvU&feature=feedu here is the first one on youtube... its decent, and it shows how to NOT play yoshi vs Ics very well ;D

The tournament from norway is pretty bad/has little vids too so be patient and wait for the 2 next ones (also uploading soon)

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_B8v5JmlmQ&feature=channel_video_title

 

[Blistering Speed]

Good **** leffen, putting in work.

 

[leffen]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahpbXlkWCMw&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL WF
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJHq9tzXKeI&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL GF
Me vs Pepito.

I made a few errors here and there, but if you're looking for high level Yoshi play then these are your by far best sets to watch.

 

[Mind Trick]

Really sick stuff in these matches, I felt you were sandbagging hard and doing silly stuff a lot in the other recent sets, but I will definitely be looking back at these ones.

One thing you might want to consider adding to your game is wavedashing out of parry. A lot of times parrying a laser and turning to the air when he is just out of reach is getting you hit, might be a better idea to just reposition yourself.

 

[leffen]

Thanks, and yeah, I kinda was fooling around at TiA


WD out parry is tricky, Im trying to implement it ;o

 

[KAOSTAR]

just like to say, mind trick sounds like the tightest name ive ever heard with that avatar lol. like I don't picture him saying it, only implementing it if that makes any sense lol.

 

[Naughty Pixel]

Those were some fun matches to watch

 

[V3ctorMan]

Good stuff Leffen! haha, I honestly don't know what to say.. You've implemented many things into your game...that i'm very glad to see... you even combo similar to me now... haha

All I can say honestly is keep it up, Great vids man, looking forward to more...

Liking your use of egglay, and jab resets, really happy to see Yoshi's do that now ^^

Keep it up man

 

[leffen]

Thanks!

Tbh, my comboing/punishment weren't at the best during the set (I dropped a lot of edge guards and missed many followups) but then again I'm a little worse at comboing Falco than Fox.

 

[Nogzor'z]

Amazingly entertaining sets, leffen. Keep it up!
As MT stated, I will definitely watch these a few times over.

here's what I posted in the tier list thread. I felt the points in it are relevant and I'm curious to know everyone's thoughts.

Dang, what the heck did I miss?

**goes back to read**


As a fore warning, I may restate some things said from the past 4 or 5 pages.
First off, these your matches vs. pepito are great, leffen. You had an amazing display of parrying, tech chases, jab resets, DJ gimmicks, and general yoshi play that shows off yoshi, but also your own yoshi abilities. Hopefully this, at least, stops any future doubts of your yoshi.

Im also a little shocked at the differences between PAL and NTSC yoshi. I Did not think they were that large (especially seeing the higher damage threshold for breaking yoshi‘s DJ), but I digress. My main point of concern pertaining to your recent matches vs. pepito is your claim of his knowledge of the match-up.

After watching the matches, there were some general instances, which I will point out, that may show some lack of knowledge on pepito’s part. If I’m mistaken please share your thoughts.

- In general, Pepito’s falco somewhat failed to edge guard yoshi properly. I saw attempts to simply f-smash or b-air yoshi (at low percents), rather than a shine, or waiting for yoshi’s DJ to end and reacting properly ( either by reaching the end of the jump or you canceling it).

- Lots of missed techs from getting hit by eggs/nairs/fairs/f-tilt/u-tilt leads to jab reset/heavy punish (though these could be mistakes, falco should try to minimize something so important since they avoid combo starters)

- Smash DI / crouch cancel to tech: Pepito missed a lot of these when he was hit by F-tilts/u-tilts and simply dropped to the ground, rather that teching/techrolling.

- A larger mix up of high lasers along with low/mid would keep yoshi grounded/with limited movement and perhaps bait out an attempt to reflect/parry them, rather than doing mostly low lasers (which is what I saw)

- illusion cancels: this is more of a recovery that falco does in general but it would have greatly helped to avoid all the d-smash hits while going for the ledge (by throwing off your timing)

- Needs more overall use of anti-yoshi defense: falco has moves that can show down/ outspace much of what yoshi has to offer (namely his U-tilt). While pepito used it a few times, it really could have been utilized much more to shut down some of yoshi’s close-quarter movements/approaches.

- breaking out of egg lay: I noticed Pepito had trouble with egg lay (the 2 or 3 time it hit) and was unable to break out in time or could not wavedash out. (it could be mistakes, but as with the missed techs, I would think, being very experience against yoshi, he would not have a problem)

- quick use of do: Just as a note, Pepito used his Double jump rather quickly in dangerous situations multiple times. I would expect more caution of this, but perhaps you massively outplayed him. (although you stated that he is a better player, otherwise)

I bring these points up not based of theory, but because I play against falco players (who are experts vs. the yoshi matchups) who pull these tactics off successfully, making my win that much more difficult.
Don’t get me wrong, I see pepito as a great player, but I feel you may have exaggerated his matchup knowledge/ability.

Perhaps the PAL/NTSC differences null some of my points? I’m really not sure.


Regardless of all of this, Leffen, your yoshi is no joke, no doubt. Really awesome to see these videos. Here’s hoping for more!

 

[YOSHIDO]

Good stuff leffen. Great matches. I agree with Nogorz. I'm sure the falco will sharpen up over time. His spacing and mix ups of approach could be better. Great job though. Just remember to smash DI those shines. That can make it that much harder for him to combo. Also because it's PAL you can catch him off guard for a counter attack easier than in NTSC.

 

[V3ctorMan]

Allrite everyone, that time's near again... (Well sorta, anyway apex is right around the corner, and I think we should have like a Yoshi discussion with current matchups of what we think can be implemented... (yes we've done similar scenarios like this before, but with Leffen's recent videos, and of course with more Yoshi representation, I feel Yoshi, is a very "hype" character atm, as Leffen, myself, MT, Moo, Nogz, Yoshido, etc all us Yoshi players, I believe it can benefit all of us as well..

Yoshi hasn't been receiving this much hype in a very long time, and it's actually nice to see.. I've high hopes for our character... ^^

Allrite, ummm where to even begin...hmmmmm..

I sort of wanna go through the entire tier list in a way, so I guess we can start here... and work with me, I'm not very good at this (it's a big reason, why i've nver started something like this before), cuz I don't exactly know how to "word" what im tryna say, or do.. I usually just have videos back me up, or an example of sort, but here I'm a try... Hmm let's see.. I guess let's start off with...Yoshi vs....

YOSHI vs JIGGLYPUFF

Again, this is just my opinion,(and please everyone else is welcome to join discussion) Since my only Jiggs experience is vs a local here in my town named "Tag" and of course Hungrybox, but I'm going to give this a shot here..

IMHO, this is a matchup that I feel is 50/50, or (possibly even better) This is a tough MU to decipher, as enough of it hasn't been seen at top level play either..but from what I've experienced, it isn't all bad..Yoshi's ground game vs Jiggs is phenominal, and shield pressure game on Puff is rather amazing as well. Yoshi can space, in this MU very good as well combining all of this with his mobility/air mobility as well, can give Jiggs a tougher than expected battle. Yoshi's "Jabs" on Puff's shield are rather intimidating, and give opportunity, not to mention "jab cancelling with Yoshi on Jiggs shield is near gold (still can be punished) but rather effective as well, if done properly/correctly/spaced etc. Most MU's people tend to "fear" being vs Puff, in the air. This is one of the MU's that I believe Yoshi doesn't necessarily need to "Fear" being in the air, more accurately, needs to be wise with movesets/choices.

In the air, I believe Jiggs will fear trading hits with Yoshi rather than the ladder, ofc, thanks to Yoshi's superarmor, this further increases this chance as well, since Yoshi's moves hit hard, and ofc, Jiggs is much lighter than Yoshi is as well....Another thing to note, is that Yoshi has "eggs" probably the most 'underrated" projectile in the game, and has many options w/it's usage, make it very elusive, and effective..this projectile on average inflicts 10-12% per egg, that's astounding for a projectile, and can quickly rack up damage to Jiggs as well..another thing to note, is that these eggs have a decent amount of "stun" as well, I believe this is important too. (They can shieldstab too) ^^.. Since most of Yoshi's kill moves on jiggs will kill around the 85%+ mark. (Down+B, kills rather early as well in this MU at 88% (lower on lower ceiling stages such as PS/FD iirc)

Another thing I believe is important, is that this MU, can be played almost at any pace...As most of you know Myself/Leffen are more the "aggressive" kind of Yoshi, while Nogzors/Moo/MT, are the "tricky/defensive" ones. Either way, this MU can be handled with patience as well... Yoshi is much more mobile in this MU, and in his own sense can set the tone/pace for the MU.. Both characters can even somewhat "camp" in this MU, as well, Yoshi can use ECE/Eggs, Jiggs, can sorta float around, etc, (I'm sure you get the idea of what i'm tryna say)

I may be "misusing" this next part, and if I am, help me think of a better word I suppose, but I also feel that Yoshi "outranges" Jiggs in this MU as well.. Most of Jiggs, way to get in are mere Fairs, bairs. both of these can be DJCC, parried, or just avoided (in most cases) Yoshi's priority is rather decent in this MU as well (ground based) Yoshi's Usmash, and Fsmash IMO are very good in this MU. Fsmash avoids an attack, then deals it, which can be very useful, just on basic jiggs, approaches (Dodging a fair/bair<Fsmash), I'm sure you get the general idea.. and not to mention the range/priority on the move(s) are good also... I'd say be a bit careful on the go happy "aggro" type as I feel Jiggs has limited OOS options, but she does have "rest" OOS. Like most MU, if you want to play aggro, try to attack behind the opponents shield to avoid shieldgrabs, but in this case vs Jiggs, just be careful on the DJCNair, spacing etc to avoid Rest OOS. ^^

I would avoid grabs in this MU as they can be costly, due to Yoshi's long animation/vulnerability leave him exposed for free rest/damage opportunities etc...but even then, use at your own discretion/safety etc... ^^;

Ummm another move attempt, (and I don't want to start anything here, remember this is just from my experience) but egg-lay has it's "uses" in this MU. To me, I see it as a "reset" It adds on 6-7% to Jiggs, and puts her (in most all cases) above you, which can give you time to put yourself in a better position, get yourself into a "comfort zone" etc. I can't think of any reason why, it's bad to have Jiggs above you especially in this MU haha. If you anticipate Jiggs escaping early from Egglay, Toss up a few eggs, and give yourself a chance at an extra 10%+. (maybe throw out a random "Egg lay>Down+B. I've actually gotten kills like this haha) If they stay in the egg, than just add yourself some %. This is just a theory, but i've never been severely punished for missing egg-lay in this MU, that either a DJCC, or my superarmor couldn't make up for. I could be wrong, it's just my opinion.

Ummm yeah, haha, hopefully you guys can add more to what I may have missed. I'm not too good at doing this, but I feel it's something I can get better at, and feel like I can contribute ALOT more than what I have in the past and with Yoshi receiving some mad hype, I feel it's time we start some serious discussion, and hope we get some positive feedback/results etc... Again, I want to go through (if possible) the entire character roster, and give it a shot, with MU's at the current metagame level. I feel much can be accomplished with this.. ^^

Please I hope to hear everyones thoughts on this, and with Apex coming, arguably biggest, tourney ever, I want to make sure our Yoshi player(s) have a vast amount of knowledge and will be ready to go for this event..

Let's go! Would love to hear all your thoughs everyone! Leffen, Moo, MT, Nogzors, Yoshido, etc (Puff players even) <3
~Vman~

EDIT: Happy Thanksgiving you guys! <3 you all

 

[yoshiiscool]

I'm ok with discussing some matchups, I'm also going to TO7 like next weekend or so... so I'll try to meet hbox and get more knowledge on the matchup since I'm not too great with it now.

From the experiences that I've had with jiggs up to date, it's not a terribly difficult matchup, and I'd agree with vman that it's about even. The problem for both characters is approaching, I feel like jiggs has the better approach game, but with Yoshi's insane defensive game (parry, DJCC) he just faces jiggs wall like "lolwut?" and goes in. As far as I can tell though, there's no effective way for Yoshi to really approach with attacks in mind in this matchup, since jiggs will almost always be airborne, and able to hit yoshi out of his major approaches (f-air due to startup, and b-air due to lack of range) Smart jiggs players usually cover their basis for approaches, and are hard to sneak up on and punish easily(at least with yoshi's speed and range), which is why I'd think you'd almost always end up trading in a DJCC situation until you find some good positioning you can take advantage of. Normally this just means having jiggs directly above you where she's the weakest, and where I think yoshi is the strongest. Though as vman said, both of those smashes are really good in this match, u-smash has the ridiculous priority on the backside, and f-smash being a great techdodge, and can also be angled upwards if you feel they're a bit too high.

I kinda disagree about what vman said about eggs, I feel they're useful in this match, but you need to be EXTREMELY careful while using them, as jiggs mobility is insane, as well as her priority to just bust through the eggs and punish you without you having much say in the matter. If need be, try to angle the eggs a bit up in a safe position, making her deal with high eggs where she's weak can put her out of good positioning, and even give you an opening if you're lucky. I also feel like platform stages are awful for eggs, as you won't be able to control her as much since she can just hide from them and you can't cover as many options. The damage is extremely useful, though I don't think you'll likely get any quick 2-hit combos out of it, unless it's from an ECE. Definitely egg that recovery though, I don't think her f-air can beat out a spaced yoshi f-air either, so maybe look for them as well during recovery for extra damage, and to remove some of her options.

I guess egg lay as an alternative to grabs is alright in this matchup, but I'm unsure if u-throw u-air works on jiggs. It's something I've been using to get kills on the relatively floaty chars like pika for awhile now, but I haven't tested it on jiggs yet, so unless that's an option at higher %s, I'd say they might not be worth it risk/reward, whereas egg lay is decently safe, and you can make yourself mobile during it.

The matchup really does look pretty even, no character really has a glaring strength over the other, except jiggs can combo the **** out of a yoshi without his jump, but we make up for that by being extremely hard to kill when we do have it, as well as by not being ******** and wasting our jump vs a dangerous char like this. Edgeguarding in either position is annoying, everything will just be kind of a spacing battle and chip hits until the death, definitely highly spacing oriented matchup for both. Yoshi wins in defensive categories, jiggs for the more offensive, so I'd say they kinda cancel eachother out almost. Yoshi can definitely keep more pressure on though, once he manages to get in and get below, though, so I dunno how to call it. I'd say it's kinda similar to the samus, or peach matchups, except better for Yoshi.

I say spaced f-airs are your best friend here. Actually everywhere. I ****ing love f-air

Oh yea, happy thanksgiving all US yoshis.

 

[leffen]

I'm off to party my brains out with armada and my bros from sweden so I dont have time write anything long...
I'm gonna go Yoshi at this finnish tournament too, so expect vids.

I p. much agree with what vman said except that jabs suck **** vs jiggs if she knows how to handle em. Just look at the frame data >_>

Egg lay is really useful until they learn it,then its borderline useless.
General pointers (that vman didnt write about)

-Platform camp
-shield drops breaks the matchups for yoshi, puff has NOTHING that works against it
-parry spam (->shield drops)
-being at the edge is your best position no doubt, whenever you feel pressured lightshield and grab the edge. She cannot do anything against proper planking, if you're playing for big money then just go for a timeout if she doesn't approach if you have the lead.
-get under her, uair wins over everything
-use pivots and shieldstops approaches with nair and bair = essential, it wins over everything cept bair.
-fsmash is a beast shield pressuring tool vs her (and in every other matchup, I still don't see why NOONE ever uses it >_>).
-avoid FOD like the plague.


Oh, and I have found a couple (more than 4 diffrent) "gamebreaking" techniques with Yoshi, most of them are a bit situational/matchup specific but they essentially break entire aspects of a few top tier matchups.
I'm not gonna tell anyone here in public though, and honestly I don't think I will share it with any other Yoshi player at the momentsince:

1. 99% chance that people will I tell spread them and make 2 of the techniques less useful.
2. People will spend time mastering these techniques before they are at a decent fundamental level
3. One of the techniques is a guaranteed kill from 0% on Yoshi that works on every stage with 2 of the most used characters
4. No other Yoshi has tournament videos of a high level which I can learn off.
5. No one goes to enough tournaments/ is good enough to properly make use of the techniques except for me, and really, there isn't any other Yoshi who has even bothered to fully implement shield dropping to their game and a few other techniques that I've posted about. If someone take time and master the other ones I'll tell them about these in a PM.
6. Apex is coming up.

I promise you though, that I'm no Pi. I am 100% sure that these techniques are new and that they aren't known by anyone else except who the ones I've told. I'll be very happy if someone else figure these out, but noone really seems to be motivated to improve anyways so I doubt it

 

[YOSHIDO]

Hmm I agree with most of whats posted. we have a pretty consistent jigs in the region. Its true that we must stay under jigs in this matchup. With good jiggs, parry attacks don't work as well as say pary-move to better position because of the way she can attack. I haven't tried DJC Up air out of parry on her but it might be quick enough to work. For the most part she usually swings at you then floats away to reset the position. Spacing is very important in this match. Eggs work great at a distance. They aren't worth it up close though. Planking here an there will work if she is no where near you. Jiggs has several attacks that can break through the egg and hit you. Forward smash, Nair, Fair, Bair.

As far as jabs go they help me alot in stuffing jumps and grab attempts. If I'm approaching its usually with nair or fair. I believe everything might be safe but like vman said u must be accurate. From my experience you should be fine as long as you going across or under her. Its usually a bad idea to be on the same y point in the air. You only have one jump one miss, she has several. An as far as edge gaurding i just try and watch her jump height. She inflates when she jumps, that's when i try and land a down tilt or down smash. If she is already above the stage might as well rack up egg damage. OO and parrying the rollout when they are trying to come back is quite fun. DJC rest is pretty fun too.

 

[leffen]

@Yoshido: Use dash cancel->parry if you have trouble punishing her when she floats back, its really easy x_x

I also heavily disagree with how she can break through the planking lol. If you let her get close enough to hit you when she has that poor vertical mobility then you are just doing it wrong.

 

[YOSHIDO]

I wasn't saying you can't parry jiggs aerials. I was saying it is very risky to try parry then counter attack like djc Nair because jiggs will properly space hitting in and out of your range. That's why I suggested DJC up air. This would allow yoshi to follow her for a moment before striking.

 

[~Twitch~]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahpbXlkWCMw&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL WF
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJHq9tzXKeI&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL GF
Me vs Pepito.

I made a few errors here and there, but if you're looking for high level Yoshi play then these are your by far best sets to watch.

i can actually legit see yoshi's potential now and it's lookin good. very impressive leffen.

that first match on dream land was ****in beautiful.

it seemed like you should've banned fd buuuut it looked like you banned ps. why?

 

[Beat!]

We were using MBRs new ruleset (minus Japes in teams) for that tourney, meaning no stage bans for bo5s.

Should be noted though that we wouldn't have had stage bans anyway. The european ruleset has been ban-free for quite some time.

 

[V3ctorMan]

Does anyone else have anything to add on?

I understand it's Thxgiving weekend, and many of us, may not have gotten to respond etc, but I did wanna make sure everyone got a chance to share their insight... ^^

This MU is one I'd love to get more experience with too, and i'm sure I will at Apex, I'll get my rematch with Hungrybox! n_n

and i'll win..............(hopefully)

Oh, and I have found a couple (more than 4 diffrent) "gamebreaking" techniques with Yoshi, most of them are a bit situational/matchup specific but they essentially break entire aspects of a few top tier matchups.
I'm not gonna tell anyone here in public though, and honestly I don't think I will share it with any other Yoshi player at the momentsince:

1. 99% chance that people will I tell spread them and make 2 of the techniques less useful.
2. People will spend time mastering these techniques before they are at a decent fundamental level
3. One of the techniques is a guaranteed kill from 0% on Yoshi that works on every stage with 2 of the most used characters
4. No other Yoshi has tournament videos of a high level which I can learn off.
5. No one goes to enough tournaments/ is good enough to properly make use of the techniques except for me, and really, there isn't any other Yoshi who has even bothered to fully implement shield dropping to their game and a few other techniques that I've posted about. If someone take time and master the other ones I'll tell them about these in a PM.
6. Apex is coming up.

I promise you though, that I'm no Pi. I am 100% sure that these techniques are new and that they aren't known by anyone else except who the ones I've told. I'll be very happy if someone else figure these out, but noone really seems to be motivated to improve anyways so I doubt it

Again, curious/wondering, why you think/feel you're the only Yoshi that exists. Other Yoshi players have been playing even longer than we have. I'm sure everyone here acknowledges your abilities as Yoshi, I'm happy for that, and i know you are too, but to still deny, "other Yoshi players existence, and your wording. Very much disrespect, not to just me, but I'm sure all of the Yoshi players in here..

You can/will use "Pound V" against me, all you want, "oh it was just one tourney" "Oh it was almost a year ago, etc." (I'll leave out good players I've beaten, cuz I suppose to you Weon-X, Azen, Hax, Cyrain, aren't good or something. But in theory, I can do the "exact" same thing back. "oh it's just one character, "oh it's just vs spacies" "Oh my performance was at Pound V" at an international level, with MUCH tougher competition, char variety, etc than a "regional level" with limited top level players in your region. I could even go on, and say oh it's just Pepito he's not that good (and disrespect him as a player) etc... I'd rather not go on. (more importantly I won't say that, because I don't believe this at all, and I don't think it serves the "real" purpose of what i'm trying to defend myself/Yoshi players on. It's a "mere" example of what YOU are doing (You may not even notice this, but you are) and I feel HIGHLY disrespected by this...

Spoiler

Honestly many of your post(s) have been rather disrespectful towards me, not just in this thread, but I still respect/admire you as a fellow Yoshi player, so I'm hoping it's a misunderstanding rather than your actual thoughts

As for your "theory" "No one else knows these techniques except for me, and players I've told. "No one is good enough to properly make use of the techniques except for me, and really, there isn't any other Yoshi who has even bothered to fully implement shield dropping to their game and a few other techniques that I've posted about.

It's YOUR opinion that no one else is good enough. I don't need to explain this, I know i'm good, Results never lie, not to mention Yoshi has an exceptional amount of hype right now and I know I've been a LARGE part of that as well. Again, I will not forget about Nogz, Moo, etc are good too.. Neglecting other Yoshi players is also disrespectful.

Your "new discoveries" too, if they are new "awesome" congrats, kudos etc.... but I highly doubt that NOONE knows about this, there are players that know techniques, that they don't even know that they know about... I could be ENTIRELY WRONG about this as well, but I doubt, it's something I don't know about. (inb4, I don't see it in your videos therefore no you don't know) Fine, I don't/haven't shown it in videos, doesn't mean I, nor any other Yoshi players, or other players in general don't know about it.

^ As for your shielddropping, Many GREAT players still do not implement/have yet to add this to their complete game. It does not "dismiss" the fact that they are great players. As for other players not "bothering" to implement shielddropping is also false.. Everyone's not gonna post "Ok now i'm gonna practice/implement shield dropping. Some of us would like to further develop it, be more accurate, successful with it, many other reasons... Another viable point is many of were LIKE YOU used to be, and lacked videos/video evidence... I'm sure Moo, Nogz, Yoshido, etc, know what I mean here. You didn't always have the capabilty of uploading videos, and just because you have recent videos of using it, doesn't dismiss everyone else, lack of/ability to implement it. Another sign of disrespect on your part. (Again you may not even realize that you're doing it)

Again, I wish you all the best of luck at Apex, (I still find it difficult to believe you'll be using all Yoshi, for how far you're coming from, how much, financially you'll be spendng) when I know you want to prove your abilities here.. Choosing a much worse character in OUR version as well don't exactly help your chances, but I've indeed been proven wrong before.

I admire your abilties Leffen. . I respect you alot more than you may even believe, (though others ask me why I do so, for the way you've treated me, but I feel this way) You're helping Push Yoshi's metagame to unforseen plateaus, and giving the character deserved appreciation, from many players. It's awesome. However you are NOT doing this alone, like you make it seem/believe you are... I have pitched in a good amount as well, and our other Yoshi players have too, (maybe not as much, but they still have put down thoughts) and your post(s) were disrespectful towards me, Yoshi players, and I feel that it needed to be said is all..

~Vman~

EDIT: Continue MU discussion about Jiggs! n_n were almost done, our next MU's will be the awesome Spacies MU's! ^^

 

[leffen]

Does anyone else have anything to add on?

I understand it's Thxgiving weekend, and many of us, may not have gotten to respond etc, but I did wanna make sure everyone got a chance to share their insight... ^^

This MU is one I'd love to get more experience with too, and i'm sure I will at Apex, I'll get my rematch with Hungrybox! n_n

and i'll win..............(hopefully)

[/B]

Again, curious/wondering, why you think/feel you're the only Yoshi that exists. Other Yoshi players have been playing even longer than we have. I'm sure everyone here acknowledges your abilities as Yoshi, I'm happy for that, and i know you are too, but to still deny, "other Yoshi players existence, and your wording. Very much disrespect, not to just me, but I'm sure all of the Yoshi players in here..

You can/will use "Pound V" against me, all you want, "oh it was just one tourney" "Oh it was almost a year ago, etc." (I'll leave out good players I've beaten, cuz I suppose to you Weon-X, Azen, Hax, Cyrain, aren't good or something. But in theory, I can do the "exact" same thing back. "oh it's just one character, "oh it's just vs spacies" "Oh my performance was at Pound V" at an international level, with MUCH tougher competition, char variety, etc than a "regional level" with limited top level players in your region. I could even go on, and say oh it's just Pepito he's not that good (and disrespect him as a player) etc... I'd rather not go on. (more importantly I won't say that, because I don't believe this at all, and I don't think it serves the "real" purpose of what i'm trying to defend myself/Yoshi players on. It's a "mere" example of what YOU are doing (You may not even notice this, but you are) and I feel HIGHLY disrespected by this...

Spoiler

Honestly many of your post(s) have been rather disrespectful towards me, not just in this thread, but I still respect/admire you as a fellow Yoshi player, so I'm hoping it's a misunderstanding rather than your actual thoughts

As for your "theory" "No one else knows these techniques except for me, and players I've told. "No one is good enough to properly make use of the techniques except for me, and really, there isn't any other Yoshi who has even bothered to fully implement shield dropping to their game and a few other techniques that I've posted about.

It's YOUR opinion that no one else is good enough. I don't need to explain this, I know i'm good, Results never lie, not to mention Yoshi has an exceptional amount of hype right now and I know I've been a LARGE part of that as well. Again, I will not forget about Nogz, Moo, etc are good too.. Neglecting other Yoshi players is also disrespectful.

Your "new discoveries" too, if they are new "awesome" congrats, kudos etc.... but I highly doubt that NOONE knows about this, there are players that know techniques, that they don't even know that they know about... I could be ENTIRELY WRONG about this as well, but I doubt, it's something I don't know about. (inb4, I don't see it in your videos therefore no you don't know) Fine, I don't/haven't shown it in videos, doesn't mean I, nor any other Yoshi players, or other players in general don't know about it.

^ As for your shielddropping, Many GREAT players still do not implement/have yet to add this to their complete game. It does not "dismiss" the fact that they are great players. As for other players not "bothering" to implement shielddropping is also false.. Everyone's not gonna post "Ok now i'm gonna practice/implement shield dropping. Some of us would like to further develop it, be more accurate, successful with it, many other reasons... Another viable point is many of were LIKE YOU used to be, and lacked videos/video evidence... I'm sure Moo, Nogz, Yoshido, etc, know what I mean here. You didn't always have the capabilty of uploading videos, and just because you have recent videos of using it, doesn't dismiss everyone else, lack of/ability to implement it. Another sign of disrespect on your part. (Again you may not even realize that you're doing it)

Again, I wish you all the best of luck at Apex, (I still find it difficult to believe you'll be using all Yoshi, for how far you're coming from, how much, financially you'll be spendng) when I know you want to prove your abilities here.. Choosing a much worse character in OUR version as well don't exactly help your chances, but I've indeed been proven wrong before.

I admire your abilties Leffen. . I respect you alot more than you may even believe, (though others ask me why I do so, for the way you've treated me, but I feel this way) You're helping Push Yoshi's metagame to unforseen plateaus, and giving the character deserved appreciation, from many players. It's awesome. However you are NOT doing this alone, like you make it seem/believe you are... I have pitched in a good amount as well, and our other Yoshi players have too, (maybe not as much, but they still have put down thoughts) and your post(s) were disrespectful towards me, Yoshi players, and I feel that it needed to be said is all..

~Vman~

EDIT: Continue MU discussion about Jiggs! n_n were almost done, our next MU's will be the awesome Spacies MU's! ^^

Derpp. On phone so I cant write a long answer.
Just please, stop caring so much at what people say.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

leffen why not just stop being a **** to people? Did your daddy touch you when you were little?

 

[YOSHIDO]

Ok leffen. I feel that vman or anyone for that matter deserved a better response. Well i usually don't really take a good portion of your comments seriously after the plank falco suggestion thing. I'm sure your a great guy in person. I've just seen you getting into crap with too many peeps. Vman probably said what he said because he has been bashed and labeled as a "cocky new guy thats teh best yoshi ever". And because What you said was disrespectful. An as always he was pretty nice in about his response.

Anywho For jiggs what do yall feel give you trouble in the match up. I sometimes find it hard to throw her off balance to gain the upper hand in the spacing battle. It usually ends up being the most patient or most accurate gets the momentum first. Dash dance, and wavedashing help a lot obviously. I could probably go for more neutral b's to get under her safer.

Also what neutral stages do yall like fighting on besides Yoshi Story. I actually had a lot of success on FOD. The stage size allowed for pretty decent horizontal kills.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Derpp. On phone so I cant write a long answer.
Just please, stop caring so much at what people say.

I feel we've been on slightly better terms lately, but your posting style really is abrasive sometimes. I'm not entirely sure at what point you decided you were the best Yoshi, or decided to make that information public, or decided that everyone was largely unworthy of your secret techniques (why would you tell people that you have them, anyway, if you're not gonna share? Seems like you're just stroking your ego), but I'm fairly certain many of the people on Vectorman's "hit list" would wreck the people you're bragging about beating at European "nationals". There is ample evidence that other people are also trying to push this character.

You may call me uninformed or whatever but I don't recall most of these people placing consistently well at high profile European tournaments, and a great deal of them weren't mentioned when I asked the Europeans at Pound 4 & 5 who their other good players were.

I dunno. I'm not going to say you're bad because you're clearly skilled. It just seems a lot of your boasts are difficult to back up objectively.

I mean, is it really a chore for you to be civil? Even when others are trying to be polite? :/

 

[yoshiiscool]

I ****ing love kirbykaze T.T

 

[Veetaak]

Don't expect a reply from leffen for a few days cuz right now I think he is drunk somewhere in Finland

 

[Hai Im Fearless]

Good 'ol objective vman keeping it real.
Good 'ol biased, yet honest about his bias leffen keeping it real.

These are def the coolest character specific boards from at least the chars I have mained.

I'll post up a large response \ any new info I haven't shared with you guys yet (if you don't know any of it already) at some point in the next few days. I've been learning a lot vs colbol \ darksonic \ gahtzu \ Pi \ Plup \ etc so I feel like there should be at least SOMETHING new in all my jumbled yoshi notes -_-

 

[Nogzor'z]

I dont really have much to add about the Yoshi vs Jiggs MU at the moment, but I'll try to touch on some things. Perhaps play a few jigglypuff matches.

- Parrying is rather tasty, but puffs who catch on/know the match up will punish for parry>committing aerial, so just be careful. This goes the same for DJCC stuff. (though this should be obvious)

- Properly spaced fairs can eat Jiggs Nair and possibly Fair. Its gernerally large hitbox and damage output will prove to be something jiggs trys to avoid. Dealing with Bair can be a problem, as with most characters.

- I believe it was said before, but F-smash and U-smash are great for heavy punishes on Puffs who are aiming a bit too high or are spaced just a bit too close.
(Personally, I like to weave in and out of a jiggs "zoned" area using Yoshi's speed, squeezing in U-air or upangled F-tilt)

- Eggs definitely has use in this matchup. We can use them to apply damage, possibly combo into U-air on bad DI (although im not sure), and hitting puff may place her in the air allowing us to heckle her with U-air anyway.

-Yoshi's aerial mobility with can prove to be a challenge for jiggs if we use Nair/Bairs correctly (the Reverse Nair, preferably).

- IIRC Bair can be used to combo into U-air on survival/no DI

- Recovering against Jiggs is not too difficult until her Bair starts to effectively break our DJ. Just keeps mobile and unpredictable and react to attempted edgeguards to recover properly.

- Edgeguarding Puff can be tricky/ impossible if she recovers high. Throw some eggs to apply damage and deny her ledge with Fair/ Dsmash?

I understand these things may be rather general/ already stated/ just plain incorrect. My experience against puff is limited, but these points are what came to my head when I sat down to type this.

 

[Hai Im Fearless]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4Plni0PsLI

going through footage takes soooo looonnngg

 

[Nogzor'z]

Well, Fearless, speaking purely critcally, I can't say I saw anything 'NEW' (conceptually at least).

There were many displays of, what some see as, "Yoshi shenanigans" such as: DJCC at weird times, egg tech chases, parries, Nair edge-guards, edge-cancelled aerials, interesting strings of attacks and some other things. But nothing I've NEVER seen or done before. Regardless, the video was fun to watch (for me at least) and shows your progression with yoshi.

**I assumed from the dropped combos, missed tech chases, and missed/incomplete edge guards that the video was not to be criticized as far as your ability to play yoshi goes.

 

[Hai Im Fearless]

The video wasn't a representation of my previous statement saying I will post my notes, etc. this is just a preview-ish of a combo vid I had in the works and I'm taking out half of those clips, lol

 

[Pi]

leffen so cute, gonna get scraped at apex haha

maybe once he gets humbled he won't be such a tool, i'd be surprised to see him do better than what vman did

 

[Nogzor'z]

The video wasn't a representation of my previous statement saying I will post my notes, etc. this is just a preview-ish of a combo vid I had in the works and I'm taking out half of those clips, lol

Heh, Gotcha. Hope the combo video work goes smoothly. Looking forward to it.

 

[leffen]

Sorry for everything guys, ive been a ****ing douche... ive had a lot going on in my life lately but that is no excuze.
Im still not gonna be sugar coating everything but im gonna stop flaming fkn everyone online for no reason.

Sorry again.


Oh y, i got **** on by ivp and pepito this tournament and i cop outed later and played even worse.
No johns though, im more motivated (and salty I guess) than ever and im going hard for apex

 

[Beat!]

That's the spirit!

 

[leffen]

Terebi videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOzrppvbvHk&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL Vs Zoler (2nd match =4stock 50%).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpeqlY1fIe8&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL vs King Funk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fp1w7eQbACg&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL vs Dev, WF.


Critique is appreciated, although keep in mind that these vids are 3 weeks old ;o