Ask VMan about Yoshi Thread (A General Yoshi Discussion)

[Beat!]

I've yet to see planking being successful against someone who tries to deal with it properly, so idk if it even is "play 2 win".

Maybe we should stop derailing the Yoshi thread btw.

 

[Hai Im Fearless]

hes just trolling so its kinda you derailing the boards.

 

[Beat!]

............................................... shut up.

(((((

 

[Strong Badam]

Hi, I'm fearless.

 

[leffen]

So yeah, won (read:annihilated) another "national" tournament with Yoshi.Since HIF (Hi I'm Fearless) did a miniblog on his tournament I thought I'd give you guys something of the sort.

***** pools, really put zero effort in them (had just woken up etcetc johns). Did a sick 0-to-death on a CF that ended in Fair tech chase on top BF platform -> Charged reversed Fsmash (**** and it was recorded).
In pools I also faced Navn who I saw as another random *** spacie player who didnt really know any fundamentals like everyone and their mom but turns out that he ended up placing third and he could actually play really gay pretty well (read:he dash dance camped his *** off, I was tired and bored so I ran mindlessly into his obvious baits a few times <_>). I still 2-0d him pretty convincingly though.

So onto bracket: I was up against Zoler (good fox, I won teams with him last weekend) and by now I was awake and had eaten and **** so I was game baby. First match was ~3stock low percent with **** combos and second match was a brutal 4 stock with even more **** combos. 3rd match was just random fox dittos since I wanted him to have some fun lolol (I always do this :o). It was all recorded ;9

Next up I faced a Jigglypuff (Oskar) which I had pwned or smth in friendlies with Yoshi so hard that he more or less went random when I picked Yoshi... so I said wth and suggested Fox vs Jigglypuff cause I'm nice like dat.

Next up was King Funk (Falco) who I ran over pretty nicely first 2 games and then I went Fox 3rd game bcuz of request lols.

So it was winner finals and I was up against Dev (he more or less dominates south sweden regionals). First two matches was 2-3 stocks against his Fox... 3rd game he went falco and it was semi close afaik.

In GF's I went falco 2 first games and just went all random and ****, then I went Yoshi vs his falco and I played horrible with SDs and the like so I lost 2 games and barely won last game (dont watch GFs plox LOL).

I also won Teams playing Fox with Nizro(CF) and we played amazingly with awesome teamcombos and **** synergy to me suiciding 4 times a match and **** (johns etc).

/end rant lol



@Parry with C-stick buffer:

Seriously guys? I'm kinda dissapointed that you're even considering this...
First off, Parry is a 6 frame window, Cstick buffer jumps on frame 2. Shield is buffered if you just hold it so if you wanna "buffer" a parry or wth then just hold shield and time your jump... 6 frame timings aren't hard lol.

@Random shield dropping new mysterious strategy:

I could care less. I already have shield dropping down to 110% consistency and I have used way better and for longer than anyone else... the fact that you have to point at Jeapies videos where he uses it unnecessarily 99% of the time (amsah spaced HORRIBLY on his shield, he could just have Kneed oos/shield grabed him lol) kinda goes beyond me.
This is not even me being cocky etc, just watch my videos when they come out (1-2 days for my Norway ones prob) if you wanna see shield droppings true potential with Yoshi.


@Beat: DI'ing sideways will only make the combo go on for longer lol (sad but true). Just take the 60% and try to DI upwards as much as possible (although when Marths do that I start using Nairs to extend the combo)

@Parrying between Shieldpressure: This should really be standard... shame that noone but me is using it really. Use it after Jabs, after nairs/bairs/fairs/uairs and dtilts (when playing vs falco, Dtilt his shield and then just wait for them to sh dair you oos and parry it, works EVERY TIME).

@Everyone: Please remember the fact that Yoshi has no shieldstun and that he can spotdodge out of his shield release animation. kkthxbye.


Random sidenote: I'm making a combo video lols. I already have 40+ 0-to-deaths that are awesomely unique (even for ppl who main Yoshi). This aint gonna be no 2 hit not even true combo video (no offense Vman).


Lost 2 games with Yoshi throughout the tournament, both in

 

[Beat!]

@Beat: DI'ing sideways will only make the combo go on for longer lol (sad but true). Just take the 60% and try to DI upwards as much as possible (although when Marths do that I start using Nairs to extend the combo)

BROKEN CHARACTER

TOO GOOD

BROKEN

****







And yeah, shield dropping *****.

 

[leffen]

Yoshi is HELLA BROKEN.

when I am playing good enough so that I can hide his weaknesses by being ****.

when other people with too little swag play him tho its kinda harsh on the eyes though.

 

[yoshiiscool]

Everyone can spot dodge out of shield drop animation, and the "lolbuffershieldlolparry6frame" thing you just posted doesn't actually work. Maybe it's different in PAL, but if you're holding shield triggers previous to being able to shield, you can't use it to jump out of when it does start the shield.

Also what ****ing falcos d-air you oos over and over again after you keep baiting and parrying it? Don't you think shine oos is a bit better of an option for them, or just getting away if you're out of range for that? Not all falcos will just immediately d-air like robots.

I'm not saying you're bad, just think before you post dude, and maybe get your head out of your *** a little bit, cuz it's kind of annoying. I don't care if you're the best player in the world, or whatever you may think, but coming off as conceited isn't really a good thing. Just be chill ffs. "kthxbai"

 

[Hai Im Fearless]

Where was he conceited?

 

[leffen]

YIC: Um, if you cannot do that, then you cannot jump out of it with Cstick either. And I'm pretty sure that you can do that, but regardless, if my thing doesnt work then the same thing applies to you. My point still stands, EVERYWHERE that you can "cstick buffer" you can also just not be terrible and use normal parry which is better and easier.

Shining OOS vs a spaced dtilt? (WHICH I CLEARLY STATED). It will never hit dude, them dairing oos is their best option and if they wd oos or jump away then good for you, your parry will remain unpunished and you are at frame advantage.

Of course its just a semi gimmick its still very solid just like marths uthrow->dthrow->fsmash on spacies.

And since when can other characters cancel their shield drop lag with a spotdodge? Even if they caj, its still underused, especially as Yoshi has so few options for dropping his shield on the ground.

 

[yoshiiscool]

You're not buffering the shield with the c-stick parry, you're buffering the jump itself, not the shield, which is why it works, and I'm not saying it's good at all, it's just easier than having to do both of the inputs in a precise timeframe, as opposed to just pressing the shield trigger.

Also about the falco thing, you're pretty much just saying "space a d-tilt and react to what they do" which is different from "throwing out parries between pressure" if you throw out parries randomly in pressure, you're going to force yourself to jump, and then you're in a position where you're possibly giving them the opportunity to run(unless you're a demigod and can react during your parry and wavedash or DJL out and chase), and at least yoshi vs spacies is in favor of them in neutral positions. You should only be using the parry on visible things, you can expect/react to easily. If you space something on the shield, and can react to an oos attack, good for you, abuse that, but that's only going to be if you're already properly spaced and they have to do something reactable to punish in the first place, which makes it an obvious no-no for the other person. There will be no way to consistently dodge shieldgrabs with this, or even quick oos options when you're in range, so why even bother? You MAY get lucky and dodge something like that, but is it worth all the times you'll fail?

I guess what I'm just saying is using it during shield pressure is what doesn't make sense, especially the way you made it sound when you said "your parry will be frame advantage if they wd out/jump out" which means you aren't reacting to them actually attacking, and just doing it for the hell of it. In which case the only thing it'd be useful for is things you can't react to, like a shieldgrab, or some quick u-smash/upb you can't react to. My little rule of thumb is that if I can't react to it, I shouldn't try to parry it, and when someone's in a shield, I pressure with spacing they can't punish to make them do something else, so I can chase and punish, not gamble with ****.

 

[leffen]

You obviously don't understand my post...

""space a d-tilt and react to what they do"
No, always try to parry (you don't have time to react to the dair). Since its best option its nice to use at times. If they dont use a dair then you're still safe. I'm not saying that this should be your main pressure, just occasionally as a poke.


and lmao at "I need to react to it to parry it". GLHF not parrying ANYTHING. With that logic, you'd only ever parry moves that have 14+(average human reaction time) startup. If you are parrying a Falco dair, a Fox nair or w/e, then you arent reacting.

And there is no pressure that thats unpunishable in the entire game, ALL pressure require you to read and guess, just like parrying a shield grab do.

Really, what am I doing. I'm not going to argue with someone thats a ****in wuss thats not willing to take risks (even though its much more risk filled to do normal nair pressure). You arent gonna go nowhere with that mindset, come back when understand what it takes to be good, cya.

 

[yoshiiscool]

You're kidding right? I never HAVE react to a fox n-air falco d-air to parry it, what I react to is their jump towards me/fall on me, you moron. I make sure they're coming towards me with what's most likely going to be an approaching attack, and input parry when they're close enough to hit me. Doesn't take a ****ing rocket scientist to figure that out, maybe that's how you can actually do it. I honestly think you're the one that doesn't understand anything being said, but please if you think I'm too dumb to understand whatever you're saying, elaborate a bit.

Here's what the situation is in my head, if you're spacing a d-tilt on their shield, you're so far away that they have to move forwards with their jump before they can actually hit you with the attack, you can react to the jump and safely assume that parrying is a good option when they're close enough so that they'll use the attack. Am I wrong in saying that?

See the thing I was talking about parrying randomly when you don't even have a guess at what's going to go down is that it's a COMMITMENT that you're making, and therefore you're not open to other possibilities... So please, what are you even talking about man? Do you even understand what I mean by it?

 

[leffen]

I never HAVE react to a fox n-air falco d-air to parry it, what I react to is their jump towards me/fall on me, you moron. I make sure they're coming towards me with what's most likely going to be an approaching attack, and input parry when they're close enough to hit me. Doesn't take a ****ing rocket scientist to figure that out, maybe that's how you can actually do it

You don't realize that they can just time their Dair /Nair differently or just land or Fox can just Dair and **** you for parrying. IN OTHER WORDS, YOU ARE PREDICTING THEIR TO PARRY, NOT REACTING.

See the thing I was talking about parrying randomly when you don't even have a guess at what's going to go down is that it's a COMMITMENT that you're making, and therefore you're not open to other possibilities... So please, what are you even talking about man? Do you even understand what I mean by it?

You are ALWAYS closing down yourself to options. There is NO SAFE PRESSURE. PERIOD. You always commit no matter what pressure you do. And I dont know, but "See the thing I was talking about parrying randomly when you don't even have a guess at what's going to go down " is NOT what I'm talking about, and the fact that you somehow got that from "Parrying when you predict that they will grab" is astonishing.

Whatever, I'm not gonna keep explaining myself to a someone who cannot understand fundamentals and keeps using terrible ad hominem arguments (YOU MORON, MAYBE THATS HOW YOU DO IT, MAYBE THATS HOW FALCOS TERRIBLE FALCOS IN YOUR REGION ARE etc. Seriously, grow the FK UP).
That's all you get from me. Keep staying childish and ****tarded bro.

 

[Mind Trick]

Whatever, I'm not gonna keep explaining myself to a someone who cannot understand fundamentals and keeps using terrible ad hominem arguments (YOU MORON, MAYBE THATS HOW YOU DO IT, MAYBE THATS HOW FALCOS TERRIBLE FALCOS IN YOUR REGION ARE etc. Seriously, grow the FK UP).
That's all you get from me. Keep staying childish and ****tarded bro.

Are you serious??? lol

You are most likely the best Yoshi there is now, but... god complex much?

Honestly, you make me want to be able to punch people through my monitor.

 

[leffen]

Um, what? Please explain why "I'm not gonna keep bashing my head against a wall over and over"= god complex.

 

[yoshiiscool]

Wow you get mad really easily, it's kinda funny. I never really criticized people in your area, nor the way you do things, I was just stating my opinion of things, and correcting your misinformation. Also, I never said there was a perfect way of pressuring, because that's stupid, I know there's not, if there was, this game would be a hell of a lot easier xD. Stop putting words in my mouth "bro." I'm not just gonna repost what I've been saying, because it'll just go on forever like this, but I do have one thing to ask.

"You don't realize that they can just time their Dair /Nair differently or just land or Fox can just Dair and **** you for parrying. IN OTHER WORDS, YOU ARE PREDICTING THEIR TO PARRY, NOT REACTING."

So since I can get ***** for reacting to the physical cues of a jump in, should I just not parry at all? Oh master of Yoshi Leffen, I need your insight. At first you tell me to GLHF not parrying anything because I try to do it on reaction, but now you're telling me I can get ***** for making this educated guess for a parrying situation? I am thoroughly confused, and need your holy guidance.

 

[leffen]

, I pressure with spacing they can't punish to make them do something else, so I can chase and punish, not gamble with ****.

aka perfect/safe pressure. If its not a gamble, then its obviously safe/perfect

So since I can get ***** for reacting to the physical cues of a jump in, should I just not parry at all?

No, you should mixup parrying sh approaches. My point was that you cannot REACT to them with Parry since you invalidated parrying shield grabs with

My little rule of thumb is that if I can't react to it, I shouldn't try to parry it,

which means that you don't parry jump ins, when you clearly state that you do.

At first you tell me to GLHF not parrying anything because I try to do it on reaction, but now you're telling me I can get ***** for making this educated guess for a parrying situation

"But now"... Um, the 2 "tellings" are saying the very same fkn thing. If you are only gonna parry on reaction, then you are gonna parry extremely few things, and the latter part of the sentence was telling you that you don't react when parrying a falco/fox approach.

Following the red thread is really hard for you isn't it.





And again, WHY IS PARRYING SHIELDGRABS(or nair oos etc) A BAD STRATEGY? You where the one flaming me, when I have already have great success using it. It being a commitment isn't a legit reason to why something is bad, and neither is because you have to "gamble" since you do that anyway. I know that you can grab his jump squat later instead but Yoshi doesnt have anything else that is as fast and with as little drawback as a parry. Likewise, double Shining with Spacies is also a commitment and a gamble, yet it *****.

 

[AXE 09]

This aint gonna be no 2 hit not even true combo video (no offense Vman).

Are you serious? Lol

 

[Battlecow]

I was gonna make a clever compilation of extraordinarily arrogant/****holish quotations from Leffen's posts, but then I realized that literally everything he's said in the last two pages would have to go in.

Apparently he's a nice guy in person though, and he's only like the 3rd most conceited guy on the forum, so IDK.

 

[leffen]

@Axe: I was more commenting on the trend ppl seem to have when creating combo videos (esp all the ganon ones) where they include a huge amount of subpar clips that really just make the video unnecessarily long. I loved Eggstinction for what it was, a introduction to show that Yoshi can do all this fancy **** and it was great combo video, especially for those who didnt know Yoshis capabilities.


I do however (I'm really cynical about combo videos in general) think that it had too many 2-3 hit combos into his opponent sitting in shield etc. Many combos were honestly 2 different 3 hit combos with neutral game between rather than just one great combos with no fails.
(I realize that this probably stems 99% from Vman not recording enough rather than him actually not being able to do 0-to deaths).

I want to do another "Eggstinction". People now know that you can parry a Falco nair into djc nair punish with a short followup. I want to show the development that is possible, that you can ParryPowershield a Laser into a true 0-to-death combo, Parry -> Usmash a spaced Fox Bair into 0-to death combo, Shield drop-> Uair -> huge combo, Standard Fair->Nair->Grab -> Uair combos spiced up with reversed bairs to fsmash 0-to deaths, Winner Finals footage instead of friendlies etc

Where Eggstinction showed that its possible to combo with Yoshi, I want to show examples of when its perfected.
My combo video will also be shorter with only the very best clips.

 

[V3ctorMan]

"Sigh" ever since I've played Yoshi, i feel as if everyone like wants to just like run me out of town... (which is fine), but idk, i don't exactly know how to explain this feeling... The yoshi players can have their Yoshi... I feel like i've only caused turmoil through pple.. I only wanted to pursue the character, w/what i did at Pound V, but seems all I did was innovate it and help cause it...not to mention, everyone "seems' hence "seems" to just, idk hate for what i've done... idk how else to really say it... anyway

For those of you who don't know...

I'm a roy guy now...

ummm Good luck Leffen Moo, Yoshi mains, do your thing, i hope you push Yoshi farther than I have, and show everyone...
also as a friend... calm down man, I know you're a good player, but cool it man... Your pride, and ego show alot man.. it's fine to have those, but just show everyone here man.. like I had to.. not just talk about it.. I know you can do it..

Thanks yoshi players/fans... <3

^copied from other thread

 

[Zoler]

yoshi is ******** and he beats fox easily

in all seriousness he probably has a better matchup vs fox than... ganon lolz

 

[YOSHIDO]

^copied from other thread

Good sir u obviously were a positive influence. Some people are just impossible to get along with. This is noticed when one or two peeps have fights with everyone about everything. Now lol i can't force u to play yoshi. But I DO expect a yoshi ditto set with you if I make it to Apex. From what I remember last time we only got to play one or two matches and they were close. I contain some good crystalized salt sir. Lol we will play yoshi vs roy matches too. But I don't expect u to drop yoshi without at least some good friendlies. Lol Do u know how hard it is to find a good yoshi ditto match. They are far and few in between.


I'll be honest with you. If it wasn't for you I probably would have let my yoshi slide over time and focus on better characters. But because of pride, and just the overall belief that I can still improve helped me greatly. Our lil conversation at the tourney was very helpful. It's very easy to get complacent when there is a lack of inspiration. But with a growing RVA community and inspiration it helped push my yoshi to some new deep yoshism. Lol and I'm sure i didn't tell u but Hungrybox asked if i was u in our friendlies. I know i should take it as a complement But in my head I was like I know he didn't lol. Again it just makes me work that much harder. So yeah long story short I don't care who u play with in the future, i just want some good friendlies in a yoshi ditto match

 

[Beat!]

Apparently he's a nice guy in person though, and he's only like the 3rd most conceited guy on the forum, so IDK.

It's a pretty notable difference, yeah.

 

[V3ctorMan]

Well this thread has some interesting questions/topics about Yoshi....

May I perhaps be of assistance? I'm sure I can answer most questions.. ^^

I'm a Yoshi main, i'd say I know a very large amount about him, and I most definetely main him, and play him in tournament environment too...

Hi thread n_n

^Copied from the Official MBR tier list thread...Like seriously, I SUPPOSE im going to leave on this note, but if you/any of you are unclear on ANY OF THESE things, why does noone just ask me these things, or even Moo... and Leffen knows some things too but I think some things he recently found out.. I mean, this thread is a yoshi general discussion, and my name's even involved in it... You can ask me, Im sure i'll know it..

Sveet: looks like I'm 0 for 2 in terms of Yoshi shield mechanics today LOL. yoshi broken

Copied from the MBR Tier list thread... "sigh" you can ask me ya know?

EDIT WHAT THE HELL YOSHI HAS NO SHIELDSTUN!? I THOUGHT THAT WAS PARRY ONLY looooooooooool.

omg, I think you can actually shieldgrab a late fox/falco Bair and you can definitely shieldgrab a knee/ganon fair LOLLLLLLLL

@Parrying between Shieldpressure: This should really be standard... shame that noone but me is using it really. Use it after Jabs, after nairs/bairs/fairs/uairs and dtilts (when playing vs falco, Dtilt his shield and then just wait for them to sh dair you oos and parry it, works EVERY TIME).

@Everyone: Please remember the fact that Yoshi has no shieldstun and that he can spotdodge out of his shield release animation. kkthxbye...

^You posted this (what I have quoted) earlier in the Official MBR list thread Leffen, but you didn't even find out till recently eh? I thought you were aware...which links to what I put below as well..

^Leffen you had posted this in this thread (In bold/italic/underlined), letting all Yoshi players know or reminding them per se, and it's ok, but you went about it wrong, making it seem like you've always known this.... granted I have... I mean there's a HUGE guide stickied into our Yoshi section... I thought all of us know this

As for your 1st paragraph, about noone using parrying between shield pressure... I don't want to feel insulted, but it feels it's getting there... I mean seriously? I have tons of Yoshi vs Falco MU prolly spammed on youtube, since it seems, at the moment, (noone else can upload as many/frequently as I get to) and lemme say I'm sure there are parrying variables in all of them, in shield pressure, non shield pressure many occassions... I know you are a splendid yoshi, and I know/hope you aren't exactly trying to downplay my Yoshi, or me as a player, but you're not the only one... I'm sure others do too, Angel, Moo, maybe they can't show videos like I have.... I don't exactly feel offended, just a bit hurt/shocked?

... You are a close friend, and a fellow Yoshi player whom I respect, (though i'm not a Yoshi myself anymore) but still man, it's ok to admit, that even you, don't know all the specs of Yoshi... it's fine.. Yoshi is the character that STILL even after 10 years has the most undiscovered stuff in this game.. I myself, don't know everything about Yoshi either, but hey im trying to catch up and learn everything.. i can

...You don't drop your shield when parrying, you jump out of it... o_O

It amazes me still how many people don't know about Yoshi, does it hurt to ask me, or something for a change? I'm sure I could've helped.

wow i just saw this in magus post:

Quote:
Yoshi does not receive any shieldstun from anything at all and can always roll/dodge/grab instantly after shield hitlag ends o_O..

^Ahh good old magus, knows all...

Random stuff on everything, but wow, people still don't know it all, if that's the case, please just ask me, or any Yoshi player im sure they can give an answer, not give an unsure one, or info they've just discovered..

C'mon yoshi players, let's get some hype, bring me some videos...i'll need to watch something, since i'm leaving him for Roy...

/sigh so many bottled up emotions.. idk what to really say... I will say I have faith in you guys though... Make me proud you guys... <3

 

[Strong Badam]

yoshi is broken

 

[Pi]

this is bad o.O

 

[Strong Badam]

yo real talk vman is the truth, the homie, the alpha & the omega y'all don't know what you've lost

 

[KAOSTAR]

Yoshi players are something else lololool. You guys need to just ****in chill. I was gonna write up some ****, but its not really worth it, Id rather play with this lvl 4 ganon and practice turnaround JC waveshines.

As far as Eggstinction goes, it was the truth, could it be better, not by much at the time. But thats only because Yoshis game has improved a notable amount after its release. If I was looking for adjectives to describe it, it wouldnt be sub par, or basic, Id just say old. Im 100% positive just based on watching V3ctorman play at G2 that he could easily make another combo video that far surpasses eggstinction. I tried to talk him into it, but he wants to play roy lol.

my point being tho, dont go in the past and try to say this isnt a good combo video for the present, or it doesnt showcase yoshi's potential. The time line is just alot shorter for underdeveloped characters in a game thats got 10 yrs of development behind it.

Everybody should really just keep the pot shots to themselves. If Leffen thinks he can make a boss *** video, more power to him, nobody doubts that he can. but dont put other ppl down to make a point. Let your work stand on its own.

 

[leffen]

@Vman. You're right. My bad ppl.

@Kaosstar, that was exactly what I said (or tried to) o_o. It was really good for its time but I just think I can show what has been developed since.

 

[KAOSTAR]

Thats a much more positive way of putting it. and I believe that you can do it, I look forward to the release of said vid.

Also, tell Zoler Kaostar said Hi.

 

[Strong Badam]

ya I think in general ppl should be less negative to each other esp us low tier heroes. there's enough bringing us down cuz we use bad chars, no need for our friends to do so.

 

[Zoler]

Sup kaostar=)

 

[Hai Im Fearless]

Parrying in between shield pressure. Why didn't I think of that............

 

[Hai Im Fearless]

HYPE AS **** MM w/ Colbol commentary

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOkCpVuSQro&feature=feedu

edit: I had 420 johns

 

[Hai Im Fearless]

Somebody post something about it

 

[KAOSTAR]

but u already johnned, another win under the fox belt lol.

 

[yoshiiscool]

Loved the showcasing of the revolutionary shield drop technique you've been talking about on the Yoshi story match.

 

[Hai Im Fearless]

LOL im no where near at the point where I can apply shield dropping properly. I have to embed much more yoshi movement control first