Ask VMan about Yoshi Thread (A General Yoshi Discussion)

[V3ctorMan]

Awwwwwwwwwww, boooo.. on the Yoshi part Leffen, Your Yoshi's so goood, and I don't think you give it enough credit.., but hey if not playing Yoshi's gonna help you get to apex, then heck do it...

haha, I know you were just kidding man, haha, i was just talkin back lol.. and Yoshi dittos truly don't really prove anything, but I like the MU, still your Yoshi's awesome regardless.. and I know you can do what I have..

Nah man, you didn't suck in bracket man, just got some cold feet, when you duidn't need it.. but it happens ya know? You're still an awesome player ^^

WOW beating Armada, that's awesome man, get some Fox exp in tournament man, I'd be hype to see you play man...My hopes/prayers are def, with you rep well man.. ^^

Either way good luck at Beast man, you got this..

Mind Trick - I heart you? ^^ haha, come back to Yoshi

 

[KAOSTAR]

haha leffen is tight.

 

[DerfMidWest]

well hi yoshi players. I'm bored so I'm posting on this board.

What inspired you to play yoshi? did you just like yoshi himself, or did you try him out and like his playstyle, or was it something else?

 

[Aero.]

Whatsup, guys.

I found myself looking at the matchup chart today and I was rather surprised how poorly Yoshi was placed, especially versus some of the higher tier characters I figured he'd pull (around) even against... Take Sheik, for example. How the hell is that a 90-10 in Sheik's favor? I don't question her gaiety (and my most frequent opponent may be a Sheik main), but I never expected such extreme conditions as this! :O

Any explanations?

 

[Strong Badam]

Grab = death. Sheik is good at grabbing.
Without grab, it's already a 70-30 matchup. Good luck.
What match-up thread, btw?

 

[leffen]

Wow Strongbad, damn ur clueless. I freaking hate people who have no clue about yoshi, his metagame and they have probably not played a single game in the matchup and yet they go around talking about impossible matchups etc.

Without grab ~50-50 (NTSC)
Sheik has NOTHING against parry/cc/djc or yoshis bair/spacing game in general.
she can't kill, she gets comboed /juggled like crazy and she dies early.
Oh and she can't gimp yoshi... obviously.

Sheiks grab is good, but its pretty damn hard for her to get one if she doesnt get a HARD read (rest difficulty I'd say) if yoshi plays it properly (madgay).

Oh and one grab isnt even close to 0-2-death if the yoshi can DI, esp with platforms.

With grab (NTSC) I'd say its about 65-35 and more even if yoshi planks / platformcamps only.
In PAL I say its around even/yoshis advantage tbh. Just go yoshi/fod/BF and ur done.

but hey yoshis bottom tier and gets ***** according to a lot of people. The same ppl who think young link is the second worst in teams and who thinks he loses big time to jiggs.

 

[Aero.]

Leffen, I love you bro, but the hatin' needs to stay in the AiB forums. =pp

I'm guessing you guys were referencing CGing, but never actually said it. And no, I don't claim to know anything about Yoshi, but he's my best bet to a main. I *will* learn. (I never thought I'd main a DJCer though...)

Another tid-bit: darkblue Yoshi is mad cutee. ;D

 

[Strong Badam]

how the **** does yoshi camp sheik

 

[Redd]

There's no such thing as 90-10. Ever.

 

[~Twitch~]

i mean...pichu vs shiek is pretty terrible.

 

[Nogzor'z]

how the **** does yoshi camp sheik

Leffen said "Platformcamps" which is easily feasible because of shieks poor aerial movement and yoshi's superior aerial speed and slick platform movements.

 

[Aero.]

What match-up thread, btw?

Not any thread on here, unfortunately. I honestly didn't know they had a place designated for matchups, besides those that rested in character specifics... But no, I was just looking at the one on Smashwiki. ^-^

Leffen said "Platformcamps" which is easily feasible because of shieks poor aerial movement and yoshi's superior aerial speed and slick platform movements.

Stole the words right out of my mouth. Yoshi's DJC makes it pretty difficult for opponents to predict exactly how he'll react once he makes it off a platform and none of Sheik's aerials has anything on Yoshi's DJ, so making it onto platforms is pretty simplistic. He also has a decent WD length, if I'm not mistaken... which just adds to platform mobility.

 

[~Twitch~]

is yoshi's stage selection completely dependent on who he's playing against because i don't really think yoshi has any good stages.

 

[leffen]

is yoshi's stage selection completely dependent on who he's playing against because i don't really think yoshi has any good stages.

Kinda... Yoshis is good versus everyone though because ppl die early (CC/DJCC stays useful for a bigger % of the stocks and yoshis combo finishers can actually straight out KO) and Battlefield is really great vs p. much everyone but esp vs spacies.

FOD is kinda good vs everyone

Kongo can be good vs some characters if your ****ing campy but otherwise its just decent.

 

[Redd]

i mean...pichu vs shiek is pretty terrible.

But 90-10? Negative.

:D

 

[V3ctorMan]

Just posting here.. My set with Hbox was recorded.. ^^

well sorta.. missing a game.. but hey.. it's cool.. I think I lost 2-1 anyway enjoy^^

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFRjXRIvgTI

 

[KILLA.FOR.CASH.]

DUDE. those matches were crazy! i never knew jiggs vs yoshi could be that entertaining o_O

 

[V3ctorMan]

^^ Haha, thanks KFC, it was fun, there were sooooo many more GREAT matches I wish I had gotten recorded... my Yoshi vs M2k, or Hax, or Dart, soo many good players I got to play with Yoshi, and even take wins off of, but none were recorded.. I'll have to make sure I get them next time...

Revive boards.. ^^

 

[leffen]

Loved watching that set in person Vman Told you guys Yoshi-Puff isnt that hard and I think we all have much to learn about that match up still.


Oh and I also have a purple name now hurrdurr

 

[~Twitch~]

yoshi gettin some rep in the backroom. :D

 

[leffen]

I'm sorry guys I didnt play any yoshi in bracket at BEAST (played him in r2 pools and got 1st seed but still =/).

I got a decent amount recorded though, hopefully it will help some fellow yoshi mains that have problems with marth/spacies : ).

Btw Mind trick, I beat Faab 2-0 in a friendly bo3 set. Do your part.

 

[~Twitch~]

dang leffen did you get it recorded?

 

[Mind Trick]

I'm sorry guys I didnt play any yoshi in bracket at BEAST (played him in r2 pools and got 1st seed but still =/).

I got a decent amount recorded though, hopefully it will help some fellow yoshi mains that have problems with marth/spacies : ).

Btw Mind trick, I beat Faab 2-0 in a friendly bo3 set. Do your part.

impressive, did you go all yoshi in r2 or just a few matches? (mostly curious about porc and enig)


btw I actually did play yoshi last fest, because we did a no top tier tourney (everyone below falcon and IC's cant grab lololol)
http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/259/midtierbracket.gif

 

[yoshiiscool]

lol, mindtrick rapin *****es.

 

[leffen]

I jv4 + jv3 stocked some fox (3rd seed iirc) twice, won vs Mahie twice with 2stocks or smth, played him one match vs Enig and jv2 stocked and then went falco.

I didnt go yoshi vs porc cause I had played like 1 hour of yoshi - falco friendlies the day before (I won ~70% iirc) and I love the falco ditto

 

[Z'zgashi]

I think I should actually come back here more... I mean... I do main Yoshi in Melee and I do still play Melee when it's available...

 

[~Twitch~]

what are you supposed to do if your opponent DI's your dthrow away?

cuz i watch vids of vman and leffen and they never DI the dthrow away so what do you guys do to them to make them not DI away?

also what do you guys think of utilt?

 

[leffen]

At higher percents you can still follow up with WD->Dsmash or something along those lines.
It's still a really good tech chase so just practice enough so you can react to whatever tech they do.

To make them not DI away: Buffer the dthrow. The dthrow is really fast and if you buffer it (hold Cstick down after pressing Z) they dont really have that much time.

Another fun thing to do at ~90% (spacies) is to Upthrow->dsmash em. If they DI away from you then you have time to do Dsmash before they can do anything (esp useful close to the edge).


@Uptilt. I think its pretty damn good when its used correctly. You can use it to start combos (mostly on floaties, sometimes spacies when they wont fall from Ftilt) and to finish off fastfallers (ending a uair string->dsmash/fsmash/nair and trading with dairs for example)

 

[KirbyKaze]

Kind of late to the party but...

I agree with leffen. Sheik is actually pretty bad against Yoshi if she doesn't CG. In NTSC, if she forgoes her CG and does normal throw stuff, I think it's slight advantage for her. If she decides to chain grab, runs away, plays mostly grounded, and knows when she can grab through his moves then it's a very good matchup for her.

The CG really does change it entirely. She actually sucks at dealing with a lot of the stuff Yoshi specializes in (DJC, CC, platform camp, etc) but the grab doing 70%+ and setting up KOs or combos afterwards is too much for Yoshi. I think it's easier to grab him than leffen says, but the only Yoshi I've played is Vectorman and I he doesn't really play the way leffen is describing. I found it pretty easy to grab him tbh.

 

[V3ctorMan]

Kind of late to the party but...

I agree with leffen. Sheik is actually pretty bad against Yoshi if she doesn't CG. In NTSC, if she forgoes her CG and does normal throw stuff, I think it's slight advantage for her. If she decides to chain grab, runs away, plays mostly grounded, and knows when she can grab through his moves then it's a very good matchup for her.

The CG really does change it entirely. She actually sucks at dealing with a lot of the stuff Yoshi specializes in (DJC, CC, platform camp, etc) but the grab doing 70%+ and setting up KOs or combos afterwards is too much for Yoshi. I think it's easier to grab him than leffen says, but the only Yoshi I've played is Vectorman and I he doesn't really play the way leffen is describing. I found it pretty easy to grab him tbh.

We played on FD twice.. there was no platforms/movement I could use... now i'm not saying, I would've won anyway w/them... cuz I wouldn't have.. but im confident I would've faired much better... :/

but yeah.. Leffen, my styles are a bit different/well a lot different... n_n

 

[~Twitch~]

yo you and leffen need to record more matches cuz the only vids i can find of you are fairly old vids of you vs axe and the only vids i can find of leffen (i mean literally the ONLY vids) are of him mming a peach.

 

[KirbyKaze]

We played on FD twice.. there was no platforms/movement I could use... now i'm not saying, I would've won anyway w/them... cuz I wouldn't have.. but im confident I would've faired much better... :/

but yeah.. Leffen, my styles are a bit different/well a lot different... n_n

We played on YS too. And it was still easy to grab you.

 

[V3ctorMan]

We played on YS too. And it was still easy to grab you.

Yeah I was about to edit on that one too.. yeah we indeed played there as well... I just think my particular style of Yoshi, you just do very well on... I suck at playing smart , and defensive... Yoshi's story sucks too.. I hate small stages.. (not much space to really move around on)

I'm sure Leffen, may fair better vs you too. I'm sure he's more sheik experience than I do as well...but I def agree w/you KK that the grab in this MU, is the main determining factor.. w/o it.. sheik doesn't have that much really going for her in it...

 

[ChivalRuse]

Grab is pretty deciding in all of Sheik's matchups.

But I guess characters that she can chaingrab suffer more from it.

 

[V3ctorMan]

New Videos... just trying to give the thread some life...

Miss you guys

EDIT: Fixed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6NnhQfj1kA

 

[AXE 09]

what are you supposed to do if your opponent DI's your dthrow away?

cuz i watch vids of vman and leffen and they never DI the dthrow away so what do you guys do to them to make them not DI away?

also what do you guys think of utilt?

If Pikachu DIs away, Dthrow -> dash -> full jump Egg Lay is a combo lolol

 

[~Twitch~]

If Pikachu DIs away, Dthrow -> dash -> full jump Egg Lay is a combo lolol

loool that's pretty funny, what about full hop fair if you space it right?

 

[leffen]

Stop shielding and roll spamming Vman

Otherwise good **** as usual .

 

[Mind Trick]

Stop shielding and roll spamming Vman

Otherwise good **** as usual .

what he said

also that stuff on grabbing and following up on spacies, once again what he said

 

[leffen]

Mindtrick.

Yoshi.

Now!

Sidenote: Im playing Yoshi for spacies/marth now and I'm gonna use fox for the rest. Hopefully I can get some footage next week .