Ask VMan about Yoshi Thread (A General Yoshi Discussion)

[~Twitch~]

dang leffen sounds like you're bout to get your name out there.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Yeah. Leffen is a beast.

 

[Mind Trick]

I'm not going to BEAST anymore because it's a couple of days before the start of my retakes, and we all know you won't return in the fittest form from a tournament, multiday and out of country even

Like I said it's just how I feel, I've been playing Yoshi way too long and I feel I don't want to put the effort in anymore. I know I could still improve in a lot of ways, but my fox is better now and my dedication to the game is not what it used to be.

Feel free to prove me wrong though about matchups by beating dutchies with your yoshi at beast. If you manage to beat Faab's falco, I'll become a Yoshi main again, ok? xD

 

[Beat!]

Wait, there was another entire page.

lmao I suck

nvm this post

It never happened

 

[Nogzor'z]

I used to think Yoshi still had potential to be discovered, but honestly I can't see him ever competing with (most if not all of) the top tiers.

Kinda sounds like what people have thought of yoshi for quite some time...
Whatever though, I'll continue practicing yoshi with my bros in my backwater town and hopefully get more involved in the smash scene.

*****Parrying too good*****

 

[V3ctorMan]

Although ruby just random as **** popped out of nowhere with a post, there is a lot of thruth in his post lol

I went 100% fox yesterday at a small tourney at zgetto (~20 people but the elite 4 + amsah all present lol) and I did better than I ever would if I had played Yoshi. Finished 7th but I feel like I'm closing the gap if only a little bit to the top players slowly. Funny thing is I don't even own a gamecube anymore and hardly play, but I still keep up with vids and think about the game.

I used to think Yoshi still had potential to be discovered, but honestly I can't see him ever competing with (most if not all of) the top tiers. Vman did an awesome job at that one big national where he made bracket, but I feel like it was mostly just because no one in america has EVER played a Yoshi. For every new strategy/trick/combo/whatever you come up with for Yoshi, the people you play will get better at the matchup and just abuse your glaring weaknesses, at least that's how I strongly feel right now.

I'd like to hear how Vman experienced his pool matches with Amsah, one of the few people who had MU experience at that tourney (I can't remember which one it was lol, pound?)

I am deeply saddened Mind Trick. . In all out honesty, I hope Leffen, does do that task you asked of him, and if he cannot, I'll handle it myself... . I've faith in him though..

Not saying it's anything, but GET YOURSELF A CUBE >.>; I mean, I'm sure you've played Yoshi for so long you have his flow, engraved in your head, but even then, it's always good to maintain steady practice with him..

Good Job on your placing at this last tourney man, good stuff..

It hurts me a little bit to see you still have doubts in Yoshi, I suppose I understand, a little bit. The international I went to was Pound V. (It was actually my first ever major tourney, that I competed in.) Yoshido, and Shiri were both there (even tho I never got to see/play Shiri, and other Yoshi players too.) Overall a grand experience..

I'm not even gonna lie to you. In R1 pools, I had MAJOR stagefright, to even go Yoshi..You know? I didn't wanna lose, Ironically enough, it wasn't until I played my set with Voodoo, that I realized, I was there for a purpose, with a set goal..and as mentioned before, I am an entertainment based player..so it was set, that I'd go Yoshi, the rest of the way..

We do indeed have Yoshi players here too, perhaps, just ones that didn't get to show themselves fully, couldn't make a tourney, or perhaps make it as far into the bracket that I had, so they were never given the same opportunity I have... that (or they eventually gave up on the character) You also have to remember it's America so NTSC. NTSC Yoshi < PAL Yoshi...in terms of certain abilities, MU's etc.. But even then i didn't let that stop me, and hope it doesn't others either..There is definetely not much representation of the character Yoshi however. We have Yoshi players tho indeed, besides me..

To answer your question, my set with Amsah, I indeed lost, I can even tell that he knew that matchup quite well.. he even mentioned you, for his reasoning on knowing it etc.. I got JV 3 stocked the first game, iirc, and second game it was 2 stocked high%.. Sadly, this MU, in NTSC, is already an uphill climb, but I never really felt like "out" of the match. (well at least in game 2.) However this was difficult to tell too, as it seemed Amsah, has an "honor" code of some sort, He was playing me as if we were playing on PAL, to an extent. Not once did he CG me. He'd just use it as if, I had always DI'd towards him, so he'd follow up, with Ftilts, Utilts, fair, nair, etc, or an Usmash tipper, since PAL, and NTSC, effect of sheiks Dthrow are a major difference..

Quite honestly, though, I never felt like, no matter what I did, I just think that Yoshi/sheik...the MU can be played without, overwhelmingly bad results..I got to play Kirbykaze as well, and i did fairly well vs him as well (yes in a losing effort and some bad losses) but being 1 stocked by a sheik of Kirbykaze's calibur, I can live on that.) Do I recommend it? NTSC... no way, like never, but IMO, it doesn't eliminate the clarity, that the MU can be played. PAL, I obviously can't say because I've never played on it, and who am I to make a call on a gamestyle i've never played on...but from the changes of things, Yoshi/sheik MU in general.. PAL, there is a major balance difference, in this MU too... So of course i'd take the PAL version..

I was honestly, hoping me making it to bracket at Pound V, would shed some light on players, confidence, etc...it definetely wasn't an easy feat.. but I wanted/needed to prove that Yoshi wasn't indeed as bad as people have come to see him, and I had to get myself out of the (AZ hype) and prove it to the world too that I was legit, and not just a Hype train... I do admit, I do have the "gimmick factor" in my favor for the time being, vs some players, but I also played players there that had tons of Yoshi exp. It felt good getting wins vs some top notch players, knowing they had Yoshi exp, from like Eggm, or Moo, or Yoshido or something ya know?

I had wish my sets with Azen, Weon-X, Hax, Cyrain, Kels, DJN, heck ANYONE i played with vs Yoshi were recorded, after R1 pools.. because, I felt I had something to give or something that I could teach for others to learn on the MU.. (I actually hope they name search so they can vouch for me on this if need be n_n) I don't think there was a player, that i didn't surprise, besides the ones, that have already seen me play (AZ), and I want to continue to show what Yoshi has to offer, even if it's only by methods of teaching..

I promise you Mind Trick, Yoshi has sooooooooo much unexplored potential. I told myself I'd find the solution, and prove it. I'd prove it again if I absolutely had to.. but I will.. If not me, then I'm sure Leffen, Nogzor's, Moo, or any of the Yoshi players will too... I know you can reach that level that you want to reach, with Yoshi, the road is much harder yeah, but I just know you can do it man....

^^

 

[KAOSTAR]

v3ctorman's yoshi is mothafukking tight. I definitely enjoyed the games we played.

but as far as low tier potential goes, it ain't over. not for yoshi, not for mewtwo, not for yl, link, zelda, or any of the mid tiers. u can't give up, u gotta try harder. the way I see it, as long as u can become more technical then your potential is still growing, you just have to use that as best u can.

this is a ****ty post but I just wanted to say never give up. take a break and refocus, cross train, but don't give up.

 

[KirbyKaze]

ftr I also had the opportunity to 3/4-stock vman in a bunch of those friendlies but I got bored of playing the MU correctly and goofed off immensely...

>_>

 

[V3ctorMan]

Haha, yeah, you got bored of the MU, and didn't CG me, I'm really lucky.. ^^; I don't recall you 4 stocking me though.. but it wouldn't shock me I suppose ^^

>.>;

2/3 stocks for sure.... >.>; I'm just a lil bit bad.. and we had a few close ones too.. ^^;
but I know you could've, prolly done much more to me... I'm just tryna give the Yoshi players some sign of hope.. n_n

<3 KirbyKaze <3

 

[Strong Badam]

Yeah honestly, DK gets CG'd hard by Sheik too but I never give up and I always go Donkey Kong now. NEVER GIVE UP.

 

[V3ctorMan]

Some more vids from me... Prolly the last from me.... for a good bit... I hope this will motivate/help everyone out...if even a little bit..^^

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGjnB4dyRjU - vs Falco/Fox

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHlN3oEe_GM - vs Fox

Enjoy! I'd like to discuss some material following this week.. Hopefully we can get some stuff started.. ^^

 

[ChivalRuse]

Awesome! Thanks, Vman!

 

[Nogzor'z]

nice matches, Vman.

 

[V3ctorMan]

Hopefully everyone can help me out ^^ thanks again

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbKfoF6IFuw

n n;

AZ doesn't really have any puff players besides him, so yeah.. anyway help me out if you all can ^^

 

[Redd]

Vman! Thanks for the vids. Hope all is well with you.

 

[Nicknyte]

Vectorman's Yoshi is the best, because he saved my house.

 

[KILLA.FOR.CASH.]

I really regret not being able to go to genesis. I want to play you so bad Vman... your yoshi is freaking ridiculous lol

 

[KAOSTAR]

Vectorman's Yoshi is the best, because he saved my house.

do you actually live by those big *** fires?

 

[Nicknyte]

I did, the fires are gone, but the house is here.


You could call it a....miss-fire.

 

[KAOSTAR]

lmao. good weegy joke

 

[rmusgrave]

I am really impressed by the powershield jump counters.

A couple of points about Jiggs that may or may not help.

1. When facing Jiggs Yoshi's face sticks out. However, if you upsmash you pull your face back meaning that you can a) dodge his face-aimed attacks and b) hit with upsmash. This can also be useful with a running upsmash while he is airborne - you can slide forwards and hit him or trade blows (a good thing if your hit is a smash!)

2. I notice you did a few DJC upairs. I rarely find them useful against Jiggs and I notice you only hit with 1 (that I saw). I much prefer to not DJC my upairs in this fight as it gives you extra momentum and leaves you higher for a DJC follow-up or egg pressure. DJC upair tends to be best against faster falling characters that take more hitstun and don't have multiple double jumps.

3. I noticed a few chances to hit with f-smash against a falling b-air from Jiggs. This is an awesome way to do a fast dodge-hit that puts the fear of approaching you into the Jiggs player as the attack is powerful.

4. Finally, you didn't use many eggs in these fights. This is fine as the Jiggs kept the pressure on well, but I would recommend using the eggs more to pressure him into more reckless approaches.

Of course, I'm a relic of an old metagame, but this is what I thought while watching that video.

 

[V3ctorMan]

I am really impressed by the powershield jump counters.

A couple of points about Jiggs that may or may not help.

1. When facing Jiggs Yoshi's face sticks out. However, if you upsmash you pull your face back meaning that you can a) dodge his face-aimed attacks and b) hit with upsmash. This can also be useful with a running upsmash while he is airborne - you can slide forwards and hit him or trade blows (a good thing if your hit is a smash!)

2. I notice you did a few DJC upairs. I rarely find them useful against Jiggs and I notice you only hit with 1 (that I saw). I much prefer to not DJC my upairs in this fight as it gives you extra momentum and leaves you higher for a DJC follow-up or egg pressure. DJC upair tends to be best against faster falling characters that take more hitstun and don't have multiple double jumps.

3. I noticed a few chances to hit with f-smash against a falling b-air from Jiggs. This is an awesome way to do a fast dodge-hit that puts the fear of approaching you into the Jiggs player as the attack is powerful.

4. Finally, you didn't use many eggs in these fights. This is fine as the Jiggs kept the pressure on well, but I would recommend using the eggs more to pressure him into more reckless approaches.

Of course, I'm a relic of an old metagame, but this is what I thought while watching that video.

Nah man, advice is great,I'm open to hear any/all things.. I've like not much experience in this MU at all...

Thx on the Fsmash advice, I totally forgot how useful that move can be in this MU...^^

Thx on the parries ^^

Threads a little dead..>.>; Maybe if I rep as well as Genesis that I did at Pound V it'll revive the thread a lil bit ^^

Thanks again buddy n_n

 

[Sinji]

whats the best option after a jab reset around 50% on fox?

 

[Pogogo]

down throw or uptilt. I dunno they combo

 

[Beat!]

I'd say DJC uair would combo into a lot of stuff at that %

 

[V3ctorMan]

whats the best option after a jab reset around 50% on fox?

Honestly it really depends on stage location...I usually like to follow up with DJC Uairs, however if you are near edges, you can set yourself up with a possible early edgeguard recovery with Downsmash, Forward smash..

Granted I rarely use the smashes, as I like to build up more damage first, even when I'm near edges I prefer to use DJC Nair, and attempt to use an ECE to try to take away the Foxes jump making an edgeguard easier..^^

So I guess to build up damage i'd prefer, the Uairs, but many options are viable, I've even experienced, dair some interesting stuff.. n_n

Hope this helps.

 

[~Twitch~]

at 50% i'd probably try something like fair -> bair -> djc uair -> and most of the times i can get a quick nair after that.

just try different stuff and figure out which racks up the most % and knocks them off stage at the end.

 

[Anthon1996]

Hey VMan, do you tell your Yoshi bedtime stories about how you found him?

 

[V3ctorMan]

Hey VMan, do you tell your Yoshi bedtime stories about how you found him?

Haha, im my combo video "eggstinction" I tried to use a story mode layout, to have the video tell a story? So I guess in a way I did..lol

As for how I found him, honestly I wouldn't be able to tell you, just one day, I really felt that I could do it, and I've always liked Yoshi, at first I was just like meh.. he's bad...then I really believed (and still believe) he has unbelievable potential..

uhh yeah ^^hehe..

But yeah now that I think about it, i'm a tell him a story right now...

Also what do you guys think but I might use a different color yoshi? not sure yet... but any suggestions?

 

[Anthon1996]

Haha, im my combo video "eggstinction" I tried to use a story mode layout, to have the video tell a story? So I guess in a way I did..lol

As for how I found him, honestly I wouldn't be able to tell you, just one day, I really felt that I could do it, and I've always liked Yoshi, at first I was just like meh.. he's bad...then I really believed (and still believe) he has unbelievable potential..

uhh yeah ^^hehe..

But yeah now that I think about it, i'm a tell him a story right now...

Also what do you guys think but I might use a different color yoshi? not sure yet... but any suggestions?

I'm pretty sure you, Fumi and the princess went to Dinosaur World for a vacation.

Also, you should go whatever color you like! I personally like red!

 

[Sinji]

Haha, im my combo video "eggstinction" I tried to use a story mode layout, to have the video tell a story? So I guess in a way I did..lol

As for how I found him, honestly I wouldn't be able to tell you, just one day, I really felt that I could do it, and I've always liked Yoshi, at first I was just like meh.. he's bad...then I really believed (and still believe) he has unbelievable potential..

uhh yeah ^^hehe..

But yeah now that I think about it, i'm a tell him a story right now...

Also what do you guys think but I might use a different color yoshi? not sure yet... but any suggestions?

Thanks for the advice. Il be sure to use this.

 

[gcm29]

I'm not sure if your the right guy to ask, but is it possible to RECE in n64? I mean, ECE is easy, and yeah, yoshi's jump is capable of turning him around, but i cannot find a way to grab the ledge again.

 

[KAOSTAR]

ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! You cannot switch colors. I think you picked the right color to begin with...its the one I use every now and again when I pretend to be V3ctorman =D lollolol

 

[rmusgrave]

So V-man, how did you train the powershield counters? Was it just lots of practice while playing matches, or did you pull out training mode or play against level 9's?

 

[Nogzor'z]

So V-man, how did you train the powershield counters? Was it just lots of practice while playing matches, or did you pull out training mode or play against level 9's?

As a general answer, may I state that parries do, indeed, require lots of practice.
With that said, there are a few tricks to help though.

-Having the R or L trigger held down when plugging in the control eliminates light shielding on that trigger which makes jumping out of shield easier.

-Ducking helps when parrying attacks/projectiles that linger just above yoshi.

-Specific attacks to try it on might include SHHFL'ed aerial, but of course becoming familiar with parry's effectiveness on all attacks is important.

There's probably some more ideas that I haven't stated. I'm sure other players will bring up.

 

[Mind Trick]

I have found myself a new main:

 

[leffen]

Mind trick I hope you are ready to main yoshi again, i'm gonna **** Faab at beast


@G2:
Vman is mad chill BUT I **** HIM IN YOSHI DITTOS ;DLet's do a real set at apex or whatever tournament we meet at though :>

 

[V3ctorMan]

So V-man, how did you train the powershield counters? Was it just lots of practice while playing matches, or did you pull out training mode or play against level 9's?

I practiced vs a level 9 Ganon actually, lol most of his moves, you can usually get some decent practice/timings to get the concept down.

Mind trick I hope you are ready to main yoshi again, i'm gonna **** Faab at beast


@G2:
Vman is mad chill BUT I **** HIM IN YOSHI DITTOS ;DLet's do a real set at apex or whatever tournament we meet at though :>

Mind Trick, I hope you do come back to Yoshi..

@Leffen, haha, this man's beast, and freakin tight as heck. I definetely underestimated your Yoshi good sir, next time when we do our real set, I won't make that mistake again. (and don't kill yourself, you would've been up 2-0 if it wasn't for that not 1-1) All out honesty, neither one of us were playing well or our best (I know I wasn't) but it happens. ALSO. lol you didn't **** me (lol jerk) both games were close mid/high%stocks lol) You definetely did way better than I expected though. I was very happy to be beaten. Such a good learning experience. It won't happen again, though <3

For now though, on the real. if I had to choose whose better at the Yoshi ditto MU, I believe Leffen is better at the ditto matchup slightly (for now) HOWEVER, I've still got him beat vs U.S. top players such as M2k, Hungrybox, Hax, etc (Yoshi) I know he'll prove me wrong on that at Beast though.

Good luck Leffen, I know you got this..

 

[Mind Trick]

where do you live in sweden leffen?

will be staying near karlstad for the next two weeks..... (not till beast though )

 

[leffen]

loool vman I was just kidding Yoshi dittos also show very little of your actual skill vs other top tiers lol. sorry for the misunderstanding lols, I know I didnt **** you (seriously, how does one **** another in yoshi dittos anyway, its all cc and dumb **** lol).

and yeah I know you've proven yourself vs usa top player more etc and I luv you for that ;D I was aiming to play yoshi but the 2 matches vs you was the only ones I played during the entire 3week trip... and then I just sucked *** in bracket anyway Q_Q.

Also I'm considering to cop out on going yoshi at beast tbh With a huge pricepot (free venue ftw) + road to apex stipend I'd make sure that I can go to apex if I place decently. While I do wanna rep yoshi I was doing great vs armada with fox a few days ago. I just played on point and rushed him down (mango style x2 lol) and won 3-0 in "serious"lies (in PAL, eat it mango hurrdurr). He then took a few very close ones but I feel that if I play on point I can beat him.

However, I've no tournament experience with fox whatsoever so I'd have to play him the entire tournament if I wanna win D; But at the same time Yoshi is so fun :F

@MT I live in stockholm, which is quite a distance away D: