Ashunera’s Library - General Discussion, Q&A and Index

[Teh Brettster]

^
Kirk wins Smashboards.
Forever.

 

[Nysyarc]

No sympathy, that's how we do.

... but seriously good luck at the tourney guys.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I'm still not back in Texas yet, AND SA can't make it. No go for me.

Kirk is also using Bowser like me? :o

 

[Nysyarc]

Kirk is also using Bowser like me? :o

Lol, I sometimes use Bowser too, almost enough to consider him a secondary I guess. Maybe it's an Ike main thing?

 

[Guilhe]

Changing the subject from MK, I’ve tested the boosted pivot grab as a follow-up for the jab cancel. It’s much faster than a regular pivot grab as you don’t have to wait for the initial dash animation to end in order to perform it (of course you’ll have to use the -> + C-stick down method for doing so). The applications are obvious; I suggest using it when you’re at the edge facing the stage center, so you’ll slide behind your opponent. Form there, if you were successful landing the grab, you could proceed with a Bthrow -> DA or, if the opponent jumped or (even better) airdodged, you’ll be behind him he’ll be facing the exterior of the stage.

For me, it seems applicable under most circumstances as it’s not much slower (2 frames, I estimate) than the regular grab and faster than an Utilt.

 

[Rykoshet]

2 frames of difference is exactly how fast it takes for someone to spot dodge you.

 

[Guilhe]

I don't think they could land in time to spotdodge. They could airdodge, but then you could just jab them afterwards.

 

[Rykoshet]

Also after like a second of testing, this thing is pretty faulty. The greatest thing it has going for it is that it gives you greater distance from your enemy if you miss the grab, all the function of a boost pivot from another character doesnt work, he cant grab someone until he's already past them.

 

[Rykoshet]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBnSSY-6RL4

Whipped that up to demonstrate my point.

 

[Kimchi]

Honestly, it's not a good followup to jab. Not only can they side step in time, but many players can and will use an OOS option to fumble your attempt. For example, MK can simply OOS Dair you right when you stop jabbing him. As Ryko just said, Ike needs to actually be past an opponent in order to reverse boost pivot grab somebody. Snake can OOS Bair, Mario can OOS Bair, Pit use his Utilt, Ike can OOS Bair or Nair, etc. I honestly just use the move as a mindgame. Otherwise, it's pretty **** useless.

 

[Guilhe]

Ryko try applying it out of a jab. As you can see in your video, the target is on the ground, and offers some resistance for the Ike pass through them.

 

[Melfice z]

after watching that movie my question is: why would you even WANT to pivot grab? -.-

 

[metroid1117]

after watching that movie my question is: why would you even WANT to pivot grab? -.-

If you read a spot-dodge, you can confuse your opponent by running past them and pivot grabbing them out of the spot-dodge.

I'm not so sure of this, but can Ike's pivot grab be used to counter MK's Tornado? IC can do it (3:55), so why not Ike? We do have moves that out-prioritize it like FAir and FTilt, but knowing that we have another tool in our arsenal is always a plus.

 

[Slaps]

If you read a spot-dodge, you can confuse your opponent by running past them and pivot grabbing them out of the spot-dodge.

haha brett does that to me sometimes online lol it pisses me off lol

 

[Rykoshet]

If you read a spot-dodge

Fsmash them.

 

[YagamiLight]

If you read a spot-dodge, you can confuse your opponent by running past them and pivot grabbing them out of the spot-dodge.

I'm not so sure of this, but can Ike's pivot grab be used to counter MK's Tornado? IC can do it (3:55), so why not Ike? We do have moves that out-prioritize it like FAir and FTilt, but knowing that we have another tool in our arsenal is always a plus.

For the record, EVERY single pivot grab outprioritizes the mach tornado.

 

[Melfice z]

Nice aporro granz avatar, yagami =3

 

[Kimchi]

If you read a spot-dodge, you can confuse your opponent by running past them and pivot grabbing them out of the spot-dodge.

I'm not so sure of this, but can Ike's pivot grab be used to counter MK's Tornado? IC can do it (3:55), so why not Ike? We do have moves that out-prioritize it like FAir and FTilt, but knowing that we have another tool in our arsenal is always a plus.

Yes, Ike can Pivot Grab out of Tornado. The timing's really tricky though.

 

[Palpi]

Olimar's pivot grab is pretty much the only practical pivot grab to grab mk because of the range. A MK will rarely use nado at a time that allows the amount of time to pull off such a feat. I can happen and help, but really it isn't all that important.

Fsmash them.

Lol yup.

 

[Teh Brettster]

Fsmash them.

Fsmash is for rolls.

Usmash is what I use for spot dodges. Makes me happy when people start spot-dodging after a throw.



By the way, we're back from HOBO and I'm a scrub.

 

[PentaSalia]

so how did the texan ikes do at Hobo? ;/

ehh i use usmash to punish roll dodgers...and fmash....whenever my opponent becomes predictable...obviously o.O
lol

 

[theeboredone]

I got 25th, Brett didn't make it out of pools, AB got 33rd I believe.

I think I did alright for my first huge tourny, can't say I never lost my composure at times, but I know I coulda done better.

Oh and this was out of a 100 contestants.

Side note: Someone might wanna test this since I'm gonna stay away from Brawl for a while, but I think we can do a grab release, dash attack on Diddy. Maybe quick draw too...dunno. But yea, I was playing Infinity's Diddy, when I released him out of a grab. I was half a second late in doing my dash attack so someone should check it out. A_B was wondering about it too.

 

[Rykoshet]

Fsmash is for rolls.

You can fsmash in front of you, you know.

 

[Teh Brettster]

You can fsmash in front of you, you know.

I'm just saying it's easier for me to time an Usmash to someone's spot dodge. It's just what I use.


Yeah, I didn't make it out of pools. I lost to a Pokemon Trainer who was no better than I am. And my mistakes are why Bored and I didn't get any better than 13th out of 40 teams. I was full of failsauce and I need to get better. Only good thing past following setups in teams that I did this weekend was 2-stock A_B. Past that friendly and beating Trex and 3000 (who aren't that good anymore, despite how well Texas knows them) in teams.... I just realized how much I do need to improve. Mainly on adapting quickly.

 

[Kirk]

You can fsmash in front of you, you know.

Wait...WHAT!?!?!

*tests in debug mode*

 

[King of Sack]

Wait...WHAT!?!?!

*tests in debug mode*

ROFLsauce on fail cake. *Goes to buy a dazzle*

 

[Magik0722]

I lost to a Pokemon Trainer who was no better than I am.

Not sure to take that as a compliment or a insult.

 

[Teh Brettster]

I'm not at all saying you're bad. Do not take it the wrong way. You played well and have a good PT.

I just mean that I know exactly what I could have done to win those matches, and I'm down on myself for not thinking clearly enough to win them and get out of pools. They were good games nonetheless.

I'm more or less insulting myself, NOT you. Especially not your Squirtle.

 

[Magik0722]

well alright then, i just found it odd that you would mention me instead of the other losses you got in pools. You took 3rd in pools correct?

 

[Teh Brettster]

well alright then, i just found it odd that you would mention me instead of the other losses you got in pools. You took 3rd in pools correct?

It's because Jerm was making it out no matter what and my matches against you were a little closer.. and they more or less decided which of us made it into the bracket, since we had both lost to Jerm.

And yes, I went 2-0 pretty easily against the others and took 3rd right behind you.

 

[Slaps]

It's because Jerm was making it out no matter what and my matches against you were a little closer.. and they more or less decided which of us made it into the bracket, since we had both lost to Jerm.

lmfao!!!! you got jerm too!!!! ahaha i had him in my pool at Whobo... did he go marth? or all out TL? no matter i didn't like him very much lol him and ozz

 

[Nidtendofreak]

lol I had Jerm in my FS5 pool bracket.

I landed a Fsmash on him. XD Otherwise I got owned. And then Hylian owned me....and Forsaken (D3)....and another D3.......I managed to win one battle against a local guy....and then I went Falcon against a PT because I knew I was out.

 

[theeboredone]

I wanted to MM Magik, but by the time I got an opportunity to face him, I was pretty burnt out...need morez stamina!!!

 

[Guilhe]

I've invited the Pit boards to come up by Doctor X thread and help us make an write-up from our matchup through Ike's perspective. Also, I've updated the War Room main post. Now it is no longer a mess, but it still lacks color and a cool matchup chart image. Any recommendations on how to fix those little problems would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Palpi]

Photoshop cs3 (cs4 is fail!)

 

[Kirk]

So, if anyone has been following the hacking scene, one would know Phantom Wings has released his little application last night that allows you to edit character's movesets.

What I've come to see, as well as many others, is that this program lets you see MANY little details about each and every attack.

What does this mean? ...perfect frame data anyone? But not limited to this by any means.

Example of what one can figure out:

Down Smash:

-Charging starts on frame 5(if applicable).

-First hitbox appears on frame 13.
-This hitbox lasts for 4 frames (13-16).
-There are 4 collision bubbles with this first hit. Each bubble has the same damage and knockback.
-Damage given is 13%.
-The trajectory changes with each bubble. The tip of the sword sends opponents at a trajectory of 65 degrees above the horizontal(picture 0 degrees being a Line going East). -The second bubble sends them at 70 degrees, the third 75 degrees, and the closest bubble to Ike sends them at 82 degrees.

-Second hitbox appears on frame 32.
-This hitbox lasts for 13 frames (32-44).
-Has the same 4 collision bubbles. The bubbles seem to be tied to Ike's sword.
-They have the same direction values as the first hit(the trajectory the opponent gets sent). Because the trajectory values are the same, and the opponents get sent the opposite way, this leads me to believe these values are relative to the position of Ike's sword.
-Damage given is 16%.
-The collision bubbles are slightly larger than those of the first hit.
-There appears to be a second set of collision bubbles. What shows is what I described above in the second hit is present for 4 frames, then another set of bubbles replaces that first set, having the same statistics, but they do 8% damage instead of 16%. Interesting...
-----EDIT: I just tested this hitbox, and it is correct! If they dodge the first set of collision bubbles of the second hit, they get hit by the 8% attack. Neat!

-IASA frame is on frame 69.

I hope that was clear enough. :o Needless to say, one can find out a lot with this app. It just takes some time to understand it all.

One other thing I randomly looked at: Ike's Dair --- The Meteor hitbox(the one that spikes them downwards) lasts for only 2 frames. Neat!

EDIT: Now what I'm trying to understand, those 2 different sets of collision bubbles of the second hit of Dsmash...They have the same base knockback and the same knockback growth, yet the 8% hit appears to be considerably weaker in terms of the distance a character gets knocked back. Could this be proportional to the damage an attack gives?

EDIT-EDIT: Nevermind...I just figured out my own question. The knockback growth is the amount of distance a character is launched proportional to their damage. So it's only natural they get launched not as far with 8% as opposed to 16%.

Cool stuff!!

 

[Nysyarc]

Down Smash:

-Charging starts on frame 5(if applicable).

-First hitbox appears on frame 13.
-This hitbox lasts for 4 frames (13-16).
-There are 4 collision bubbles with this first hit. Each bubble has the same damage and knockback.
-Damage given is 13%.
-The trajectory changes with each bubble. The tip of the sword sends opponents at a trajectory of 65 degrees above the horizontal(picture 0 degrees being a Line going East). -The second bubble sends them at 70 degrees, the third 75 degrees, and the closest bubble to Ike sends them at 82 degrees.

-Second hitbox appears on frame 32.
-This hitbox lasts for 13 frames (32-44).
-Has the same 4 collision bubbles. The bubbles seem to be tied to Ike's sword.
-They have the same direction values as the first hit(the trajectory the opponent gets sent). Because the trajectory values are the same, and the opponents get sent the opposite way, this leads me to believe these values are relative to the position of Ike's sword.
-Damage given is 16%.
-The collision bubbles are slightly larger than those of the first hit.
-There appears to be a second set of collision bubbles. What shows is what I described above in the second hit is present for 4 frames, then another set of bubbles replaces that first set, having the same statistics, but they do 8% damage instead of 16%. Interesting...
-----EDIT: I just tested this hitbox, and it is correct! If they dodge the first set of collision bubbles of the second hit, they get hit by the 8% attack. Neat!

-IASA frame is on frame 69.

Wow. Okay that is amazing. So like... now I want to see that kind of analysis for every move, lol. It may not be 100% necessary but adding that kind of info to Ike's moveset analysis in the new guide would definitely be interesting. And along with images demonstrating the hitbox bubbles we would have the most in-depth guide of life.

 

[King of Sack]

Wow. Okay that is amazing. So like... now I want to see that kind of analysis for every move, lol. It may not be 100% necessary but adding that kind of info to Ike's moveset analysis in the new guide would definitely be interesting. And along with images demonstrating the hitbox bubbles we would have the most in-depth guide of life.

It will take a while, but I plan to make a complete shield stun frame list that can also be used in the guide... we can't be outdone by the wolf boards, now can we? :]

 

[Nysyarc]

It will take a while, but I plan to make a complete shield stun frame list that can also be used in the guide... we can't be outdone by the wolf boards, now can we? :]

Yah I was gonna say, could this new hacking thing be used to get exact frame data on other things too like jumps/dodges/shield mechanics/etc? I mean there's huge potential in this if it can.

 

[metroid1117]

So, if anyone has been following the hacking scene, one would know Phantom Wings has released his little application last night that allows you to edit character's movesets.

What I've come to see, as well as many others, is that this program lets you see MANY little details about each and every attack.

What does this mean? ...perfect frame data anyone? But not limited to this by any means.

Example of what one can figure out:

Down Smash:

-Charging starts on frame 5(if applicable).

-First hitbox appears on frame 13.
-This hitbox lasts for 4 frames (13-16).
-There are 4 collision bubbles with this first hit. Each bubble has the same damage and knockback.
-Damage given is 13%.
-The trajectory changes with each bubble. The tip of the sword sends opponents at a trajectory of 65 degrees above the horizontal(picture 0 degrees being a Line going East). -The second bubble sends them at 70 degrees, the third 75 degrees, and the closest bubble to Ike sends them at 82 degrees.

-Second hitbox appears on frame 32.
-This hitbox lasts for 13 frames (32-44).
-Has the same 4 collision bubbles. The bubbles seem to be tied to Ike's sword.
-They have the same direction values as the first hit(the trajectory the opponent gets sent). Because the trajectory values are the same, and the opponents get sent the opposite way, this leads me to believe these values are relative to the position of Ike's sword.
-Damage given is 16%.
-The collision bubbles are slightly larger than those of the first hit.
-There appears to be a second set of collision bubbles. What shows is what I described above in the second hit is present for 4 frames, then another set of bubbles replaces that first set, having the same statistics, but they do 8% damage instead of 16%. Interesting...
-----EDIT: I just tested this hitbox, and it is correct! If they dodge the first set of collision bubbles of the second hit, they get hit by the 8% attack. Neat!

-IASA frame is on frame 69.

I hope that was clear enough. :o Needless to say, one can find out a lot with this app. It just takes some time to understand it all.

One other thing I randomly looked at: Ike's Dair --- The Meteor hitbox(the one that spikes them downwards) lasts for only 2 frames. Neat!

EDIT: Now what I'm trying to understand, those 2 different sets of collision bubbles of the second hit of Dsmash...They have the same base knockback and the same knockback growth, yet the 8% hit appears to be considerably weaker in terms of the distance a character gets knocked back. Could this be proportional to the damage an attack gives?

EDIT-EDIT: Nevermind...I just figured out my own question. The knockback growth is the amount of distance a character is launched proportional to their damage. So it's only natural they get launched not as far with 8% as opposed to 16%.

Cool stuff!!

So does this new application allow you to actually *see* hitboxes/hurtboxes? Also, where can I find this app? I can't find it in the Smash Workshop.

EDIT: Never mind, I found the thread.