Ashunera’s Library - General Discussion, Q&A and Index

[Heartstring]

If you're on the ground, the easiest way to bait an airdodge is to run under your opponent and charge and USmash; in that scenario, they're forced to either get out of range, try and hit you out of USmash (which can get them hit), or fastfall and airdodge to the ground (which can also get them hit). If you're starting on the ground, you can run at them and then pivot and jump at them, as though you're going to use BAir, but then wait for their airdodge and punish them afterward. If they're offstage and they try going below you during the airdodge, it's an easy DAir kill. If they're at high %s at your level, you can either go for the UAir or the BAir kill.

You can also bait airdodges if they're in the air by turning around and just doing empty short-hops to pretend you're going to BAir them; if they airdodge, you can fastfall and run up for either a jab or a grab.

k cheers, its ahrd to learn how to bait stuff when your only opponent outside of tournaments are lvl 9's or wifi

 

[san.]

@ GP

Works for me *shrug* I barely even play the game outside tourneys and smashfests, which is luckily once a month, because there was only like 3-4 good people near me, especially hard in college. I'm almost finished with mega man zero collection, which I'm happy I finally got around to playing.

Wifi helps a lot with learning how to bait, because people are much much more predictable online (lack of quick reactions). Playing lots of matches and gaining experience through that is really the only way to get good at it.

I think it's more important to being able to punish air dodges near 100% before trying to learn how to bait them. That way, if you feel the possibility of an air dodge, you'll be just about 100% confident it will land.

 

[Nysyarc]

It already is dude.

Every wondered why they stopped calling it "Global Warming", and went to "Climate Change"? And why it's hard to find graphs about global temperatures that go past 2000 or so? Earth's temperature dropped as Al Gore was busy doing his whole "Global Warming" rant.

Yah you can't argue that parts of the world are getting warmer. Obviously you're not going to notice on a day to day basis but the people of New Orleans noticed. Hurricane season is going to keep getting worse every year until we figure out a way to stop this.

Carbon levels in the atmosphere are something like five times as high as they were at their previous peaks throughout history. And guess what happened at each of those previous peaks? An ice age. So why aren't we getting one? Because of global warming. So unless we can find a way to lower the atmosphere's carbon without also lowering global temperature we're in serious crap.

 

[jamlosingthegame]

I prefer the cold. I like winter weather cause snow falling looks cool to me. That and I get to bundle myself up in ridiculous amounts of layers.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Yah you can't argue that parts of the world are getting warmer. Obviously you're not going to notice on a day to day basis but the people of New Orleans noticed. Hurricane season is going to keep getting worse every year until we figure out a way to stop this.

Carbon levels in the atmosphere are something like five times as high as they were at their previous peaks throughout history. And guess what happened at each of those previous peaks? An ice age. So why aren't we getting one? Because of global warming. So unless we can find a way to lower the atmosphere's carbon without also lowering global temperature we're in serious crap.

Incorrect.

There was a time period in the Middle Ages where the earth's temperature was much higher then it is now. There are in fact various things that proves this, but the left wing nuts conveniently ignore this. Why? It doesn't fit with their CO2 theory.

I'll just quote something I said on another site when this sort of thing popped up.

Jun 16 2010, 01:37 PM

If in 10 years everyone's going on about Global Cooling again I'm going to feel like an idiot.

Seeing as that did indeed happen like, 20 years ago or so from what my parents remember, and there was a global warming scare before that gobal cooling scare, you're probably going to feel like an idiot in 10 years like you just said.

It's just a natural cycle, nothing more. Nature already has CO2 gas producers all over the place, like cows and that plant Ledah mentioned. Human's aren't going to suddenly screw over the Earth with CO2 if WWI or WWII wasn't enough to do it. Just think about how many factories were pumping out bullets, guns, jeeps, tanks, grenades, airplanes, ships, ect for years before and during those wars, with lesser environmental friendly methods. Then add in all of the gas and oil burned by those same jeeps, airplanes, tanks, and ships during those years. That didn't really do anything to the Earth. There wasn't a sudden change in temperature, or long lasting environmental effects that I've ever heard of.

There was also this graph in the topic, which made the TC change his mind from believing in global warming, to not believing it, which he found on his own. In fact, it was what promoted him to go "Well, that explains why they stop saying Global Warming. Why is this so hard to find?"

The whole "Global Warming" and "Climate Change" thing is a money grab started by a stupid person. Nothing more.

EDIT: sensor is destroying link me thinks. It's the 's' word, but with a capital 'S' and capital 'T'. I'm guessing it's the guy's name, just that it sets off the sensor due to how the letter go together.

 

[theeboredone]

Listen British boy, your team better beat Algeria today, and take care of Slovenia next week. We got robbed, and I'm expecting us to make it into the Round of 16.

 

[Heartstring]

@ GP

Works for me *shrug* I barely even play the game outside tourneys and smashfests, which is luckily once a month, because there was only like 3-4 good people near me, especially hard in college. I'm almost finished with mega man zero collection, which I'm happy I finally got around to playing.

Wifi helps a lot with learning how to bait, because people are much much more predictable online (lack of quick reactions). Playing lots of matches and gaining experience through that is really the only way to get good at it.

I think it's more important to being able to punish air dodges near 100% before trying to learn how to bait them. That way, if you feel the possibility of an air dodge, you'll be just about 100% confident it will land.

k thanks, the thing is, the uk metagame is a lot more direct, much less camping and such, but its jsut very hard for me to get a kill so i need to try and bait people into these positions so i can kill, because everyone gets real cagey as soon as i can kill them on their last stock.

@bored: robbed? i saw america come back from defeat to get a point, you only get robbed if you were winning and then the oppnent got an outrageous goal...like england vs. usa XP
but it should be an easy win, of couse you need to beat algeria aswell

 

[Reg15]

If they are around your skill level...they should be thinking that =]

Well he only beat me twice out of like the 5 matches we played. Then he started picking other characters haha.

 

[Palpi]

Then you are better than him.

 

[Nysyarc]

It's just a natural cycle, nothing more.

That's the kind of thinking that scares me. Nature does have a cycle, but this isn't it. You mean to say cows and some plants are producing enough CO2 to cause this? It's a combination of many things, building up since WW1 and 2. Deforestation, industrialization of undeveloped countries; the world's population has more than tripled since the end of WW2, so references to what happened back then are obsolete.

The scientific consensus is that anthropogenic global warming is occurring.

I mean seriously, is it going to take a hurricane wiping out half the southern US to wake people up? Or will you look at that and say "oh well a hurricane that bad occurred 7000 years ago too so it's just natural, no worries". Then when coastal cities start evacuating because rising sea levels are ruining the foundations of their homes you'll say "oh well four billion years ago the Earth had like, no ice at all, so this is all part of the cycle".

If you want to debate this further you can PM me. You don't have to believe in global warming. If things go back to normal in 50 years, fine, that's great. But if the world is a bigger mess than it is today, I won't have to say I told you so, because the thousands of species of sea life going extinct on a daily basis will be doing that for me.

 

[-RedX-]

Something Penta showed me from GnW boards:

EDIT: And for those of you who didn't know, you fly about 20% farther if you are hit while charging a smash. See here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iskt3dWVXUw#t=3m54s

Yoshi shouldn't have died at 53%, but he did cause he was charging a smash.

I never knew this at all and it could be useful for other characters.

 

[san.]

I thought EVERYONE knew that. The more you know, rofl.

 

[Mr. Doom]

cold is so much easier to deal with than the heat.... at least you can put on more layers of clothing... with heat, there is a limit to how much you can take off....

Hey, you stole my lines. I'm gonna fine ya for that. Better pay in 10...

 

[PentaSalia]

ya i was surprised by the number of people that didn't know that as well xD. lol

 

[Ussi]

there was such a big upset about Samus killing G&W at 78% before it was discovered

 

[theeboredone]

k thanks, the thing is, the uk metagame is a lot more direct, much less camping and such, but its jsut very hard for me to get a kill so i need to try and bait people into these positions so i can kill, because everyone gets real cagey as soon as i can kill them on their last stock.

@bored: robbed? i saw america come back from defeat to get a point, you only get robbed if you were winning and then the oppnent got an outrageous goal...like england vs. usa XP
but it should be an easy win, of couse you need to beat algeria aswell

Clearly you missed the foul call on the free kick when there shouldn't have been a foul call. US scored off of that. That ref the entire game was just bad. Who sticks a rookie ref into the World Cup? US got robbed of the win.

And this is why Soccer can piss me off sometimes. People flop or flail their arms, and the ref blows the whistle on them. They should seriously consider giving calls to people for flopping.

Edit: LOL ENGLAND! GET OUT!

 

[Ussi]

world cup for cricket... Pakistan vs England, ref was extremely bias against Pakistan

Bad refs suck

 

[global-wolf]

How do you avoid getting sharked on stages with platforms like Battlefield? I was playing a wifi match with a Sonic, and we were about even until he got me on the top platform. Then boom, 1 stock gone >.>

 

[Nidtendofreak]

The last Stanley Cup Playoffs: Refs were so determined to be bias against the Vancouver Canucks, even the American announcers began to basically say: "What the heck is wrong with these refs? That wasn't even close to a penalty." We lost at least 3 games directly due to bad calls out of the two series we played.

Bad refs suck balls. I think SOMEBODY was a bit sore about Canada winning the Gold over the US at hockey during the Olympic Games, seeing as Team Canada's goalie during the Gold Medal game plays for the Canucks, and several of the bad calls were no calls against roughing our goalie. >_>

 

[san.]

How do you avoid getting sharked on stages with platforms like Battlefield? I was playing a wifi match with a Sonic, and we were about even until he got me on the top platform. Then boom, 1 stock gone >.>

nair (retreating if you can) over the platform, smart shielding on the edge of the platform, quick drops when an opportunity arises. Hit your shield and you fall off, bair. You should have many chances to get off of the platform if you keep the nair in mind.

 

[YagamiLight]

If you NEED to get off the platform because otherwise you're going to die or get heavily juggled, do make sure to remember that you can drop through and use Eruption. If they're wise they'll avoid it by moving to the side but the most they'll do to you is a horizontal quick hit afterwards, much better than the situation you were previously in. And that's the worst case scenario. Best case is you hit them with Eruption and now the situation is reversed.

 

[san.]

Eruption is a pretty terrible thing to do, in my opinion. Instant grab, dash attack, or (in sonic's case) one of their weird set ups for attacks. 1 air dodge, shield, or them moving outside the range and you're in for a lot of hurt.

Ike can handle himself well on platforms on most characters except MK, G&W, and mediocre against characters with long range like DK.

 

[da K.I.D.]

cold is so much easier to deal with than the heat.... at least you can put on more layers of clothing... with heat, there is a limit to how much you can take off....

This is my exact logic. apparently great minds, think alike.
Guess that means Mister Doom is a pretty smart guy too.

I thought EVERYONE knew that. The more you know, rofl.

Theres a lot of little things that most of the smash community doesnt know. Most people still dont understand how the mechanics of grab releases work.

But on that subject. penta. does that mechanic only happen when the opponent is in the "glowing yellow" portion of charging a smash? or does the extra 20% still get added after the attack is release but before the hitbox comes out. think of ddds f smash as an example, theres a good amount of time between when the attack is released and when he actually brings the hammer down.

Eruption is a pretty terrible thing to do, in my opinion. Instant grab, dash attack, or (in sonic's case) one of their weird set ups for attacks. 1 air dodge, shield, or them moving outside the range and you're in for a lot of hurt.

Ike can handle himself well on platforms on most characters except MK, G&W, and mediocre against characters with long range like DK.

1. are we talking about releasing the eruption as soon as possible while in the air right after falling through the plat? or actively trying to super armor the sharking opponent?

2. lol at the kid who almost lost to ook, and plays ike calling DK mediocre.

 

[theeboredone]

I like to time my eruption with super armor to prevent any air juggling. I haven't applied it to tournaments though, but it seems to work in friendlies if you do it correctly. I've had practice with it though.

If you are sitting on top of a platform and want to avoid MK's up-air, see Mr. Doom's SDI.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ND-yi3IPKXM#t=1m01s

 

[san.]

When did I ever call DK mediocre? I love DK, and even seconded him for a small while. I admit I was playing pretty bad/off, and I guess it's pretty good if I can still beat DKs even when playing very off my game. My personal MU against DK is slight Ike advantage, but pretty much even. It's other DKs who think it may be worse.

I said it's not good vs DK and GW, because it's just a lot easier just to be on the ground, and they have more range than nair. It was in reference to DK in general, not anyone in particular.

At least I'm not losing to link and jigglypuff.

EDIT: Oh wait, my use of mediocre you misread entirely. I called being on a platform against DK has mediocre benefits. The only thing Ike has going for him is close disjoints on many of his aerials, but it's not really doing anyone much good when Ike's on the platform. You can time a bair or fair (DK is tall) or something but not enough reward for the risk.

About eruption, you will get hit if the guy is currently attacking you before your superarmor frames come in. If the guy gets surprised, he can still easily air dodge or get out of the way, and there's nothing you can do except get punished.

Eruption has its uses when you have the space, opportunity, and lack of opponent options. Sadly, none of this exists when you're trying to get off a ledge with the opponent all over you. Ike has plenty of other things.

 

[jamlosingthegame]

What about falling through a platform and countering? Or is that another noob thing to do?

 

[Palpi]

Probably another noob thing to do. If someone is under a platform they will probably be shielding or getting hit by a fast fall move you do. Countering wouldn't really help...at all.

 

[san.]

Ike's is kinda too slow for such a situation. The opponent is too close. If counter had a faster starting time, then it would be a mediocre decision, especially since it loses to grabs automatically despite its problems if it doesn't work.

It's best just to run away and get your distance if you're feeling pressured that much. Best to just reset the playing field. =)

I'm weird because I like being on platforms vs a certain portion of the cast, rofl.

 

[DTK.L]

I'd always rather be under a platform and have a opponent above it leave the opportunity window open for short hop Uair's

 

[YagamiLight]

Don't underrate Eruption too much. You have an amazing amount of leeway with the super armor + attack frames so if they're a bit sluggish in trying to shark you then you can easily get back to the ground.

On a side note, I am taking great pleasure in using the word "ballerific" in normal, everday situations. I recommend all of you to give it a shot. It makes your day more ballerific.

I don't know what the word means, by the way.

 

[Teh Brettster]

Eruption = lolworks against D3 and Snake when you jump on them from above at high%.

I mean, only if you can read their uptilt.

Otherwise, LOL u ded.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Me losing to link?

Who told you about that?!

 

[WingBr]

Anything new in Ike's metagame in the past 2 months? Last time I was here I think there was something about a new way to jab cancel, is that true? Thanks in advance.

Edit: Oh, and what happened to the match-up thread Guile was running, no new discussions?

Yeah, looks like not much. I have another question, I hope this one get answered: is it possible to use nair ledge comeback using the analog to jump? I recently started to trying tap jump to increase the speed, but when I try this I keep getting uair. Anyone can do it?

 

[Watkins]

Me losing to link?

Who told you about that?!

No shame in getting beat by Legan, his Link isn't easy to handle by any means D:

but lolololol Jigglypuff

 

[san.]

@Watkins: My jiggs is pretty good imo. That's what happens when you underestimate a char, yet not know the matchup.

Yeah, looks like not much. I have another question, I hope this one get answered: is it possible to use nair ledge comeback using the analog to jump? I recently started to trying tap jump to increase the speed, but when I try this I keep getting uair. Anyone can do it?

Eh, it's possible, but aggravating without cstick set to attack. You would have to start the nair pretty late after you ensure the jump back to the stage, but still doable with practice and timing how to jump as soon as possible from the ledge.

Actually, quite a bit has changed about Ike, just nothing like a magical button combination or crappy gimmick (well we did get 1 recently but that's about it)

 

[Mr. Doom]

Yeah, looks like not much. I have another question, I hope this one get answered: is it possible to use nair ledge comeback using the analog to jump? I recently started to trying tap jump to increase the speed, but when I try this I keep getting uair. Anyone can do it?

If you're trying to do a nair out of jumping up from the ledge, you're better off pressing the jump button (in my case, Y), then sliding whatever finger you used to press that button (in my case, my thumb) onto the attack button (in my case, A). Jump off the ledge Y, then buffer a nair.
But then again, my style is somewhat complicated.

 

[Watkins]

I secretly secondary Jiggs as well. I hear she goes even with MK...

/trollface

 

[Watkins]

Actually I just went to the Jiggs forums to look up matchup ratios and discussion and they make Puff sound pretty legit...

Too bad I've never ever seen a Jiggly in action D;

*spends the next half hour in the Jiggly video thread*

 

[Watkins]

If you're trying to do a nair out of jumping up from the ledge, you're better off pressing the jump button (in my case, Y), then sliding whatever finger you used to press that button (in my case, my thumb) onto the attack button (in my case, A). Jump off the ledge Y, then buffer a nair.
But then again, my style is somewhat complicated.

Yeah that's what I do too basically. It's really not too hard of a motion, just practice it. I don't think tap jump would get you anymore of an efficient nairhop really. But yeah, it's a very useful mixup. People, normally shorter ranged characters, are usually not in the position to punish a ledge hop nair because of their fear of aether.

Triple post comboooo

 

[Mr. Doom]

Combo breaker.