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Adjusting the Damage Ratio to 1.1 for Balance

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Juushichi

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Well, let's not jump the gun too much. I did some testing last night with OUGA in terms of the 1.1 damage modifier (Sole hadn't played it) and no one noticed a difference. Just means that in terms of playing, we should have a bit more smooth a transition for testing.

A couple tournaments this weekend seem to have been toying around with it, so let's see how those go.
 
BlueTerrorist

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Sonic can kill more consistently in 1.1.

More on him later, gotta be somewhere. I don't really play this anymore, but this did get my interest so I tried it with Sonic.
 
Ripple

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mario's jab combo doesn't connect properly anymore. lol
 
B!squick

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Is Bowser's Firebreath less punishable in this if you get trapped?

Also on the subject of Bowser, does DAir and DSmash suck less?

EDIT: lol at Mario's Jab combo.

 
Ripple

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JayDeth said:
Is Bowser's Firebreath less punishable in this if you get trapped?

Also on the subject of Bowser, does DAir and DSmash suck less?

EDIT: lol at Mario's Jab combo.
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multi hit moves are easier to punish actually. but you still need SDI to punish it.

no bowsers down air still sucks. bowser is actually one of the worst characters in this mode IMO
 
Dark 3nergy

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you can jab lock still, im still trying to figure out the mechanics

looks like it starts at around 52% n goes till end of the stage
 
Ripple

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SuSa said:
I want other people to test this and give thier opinions.

So I can sit here laughing for the rest of this threads existence.
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seriously susa, get the **** out. all you do is bash an idea of something that has some potential. you contribute nothing of your own. and when you MAY be right about who the best character is in this version, you just come back and laugh at the idea again. seriously susa, I've had enough. who the **** cares what you think right now? people have taken interest in this and I will continue to provide information to them. if you don't like it. leave. NOW
 
Big O

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Mario's jab combo works fine. Sometimes if you start the jab combo really close to them it misses the last hit. It was already like that in 1.0 anyways.

Here is the stuff you wanted Ripple. I just summed up all of the results from my tests.

Shield stun, shield push, shield recoil, and shield damage is all the same regardless of the damage ratio. The only difference is most moves have 10% more knockback (the value shown as launch speed in the results screen) and 10% more hitstun due to the extra knockback. Some jabs seem to be an exception and get less than 10% extra knockback and less extra hitstun as well (probably due to having weight dependent basekb). Basically, all 1.1 does is make you hit 10% harder. Some old combos won't work anymore because they will have too much knockback (CG's, low % combos, etc.), and some new combos will work because they gain enough knockback to link properly.
 
SuSa

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Ripple said:
seriously susa, get the **** out. all you do is bash an idea of something that has some potential. you contribute nothing of your own. and when you MAY be right about who the best character is in this version, you just come back and laugh at the idea again. seriously susa, I've had enough. who the **** cares what you think right now? people have taken interest in this and I will continue to provide information to them. if you don't like it. leave. NOW
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Oh, umad.

Trust me, when I get my Brawl (better beee toniggghttt) I'll be testing things. Exclusively Snake related things and his matchups with other characters in a 1.1 setting.

But good luck to get the BBR to seriously discuss this type of drastic change

And again, I've stated I support it. I'm just an ******* about things and testing because people tell me stop theorycrafting when the results are very obvious about the changes being applied.

All you are doing is increasing the damage ratio by 0.1, the changes that occur when you do this don't take much in game application to theorycraft.

The very first thing I knew that would happen with this change:

Single hit moves that used to be punished by small window frames when they hit, are now less likely to be punished.

Due to multi-hit moves getting a kick in the nuts (See: Mario's Jab, MK's Tornado, and most anything that is a multi-hit move without set knockback I'd assume) the game plays a heavier reliance on single-hit moves (All of Snake's viable moves practically. Dair is probably the only move hurt of his, Nair would be debatable but I don't think it would be)

Projectiles also obviously induce more knockback. This means projects spacing abilities is buffed. You are less likely to be punished if you land one with decent knockback (Samus power missile, snake's grenades, both Link's bombs, Pit's arrows at mid-high %'s)

Snake's stage control, and already high kill/damage ratio allows him to kill sooner with his tools. C4/Mines are actually viable KO options in 1.0, and become far more viable in a 1.1 setting when they kill 20% sooner. Effectively making C4 the equivalent of an old Utilt. This is more of an advantage for him than any member of the cast because he can leave traps on the stage. Please name me any other character with a C4/Mine/Grenade like appliance/projectile? You MIGHT be able to include the Links' bombs.. but their knockback and damage ratio is not anywhere remotely equivalent, nor is their ability to control the stage.

Characters who relied on low-knockback combos may have many of their combos changed due to the increase of knockback. This is also a no brainer meaning heavyweights (EG: Snake) are now harder to combo. This doesn't effect characters who are more based on hit-for-hit playstyles (EG: Snake). This means characters whom have a good defense and are superior for hit-for-hit playstyles (EG: Snake) have a strong advantange in this new game trend.

Characters whom had a CG now have their CG lessened. Considering heavyweights (EG: Snake) were usually a large target of such long CG's (See: Falco, Pikachu, DDD) are no longer the targets of it. This makes the few tools that Falco/Pikachu had on a character (such as Snake) lessened. This creates another buff in the matchup for the character (Snake).

Everyone dies sooner/kills sooner, but in a more hit-for-hit game; those who are superior in going hit-for-hit (EG: Snake) are given the advantage.

There, is that enough contribution for you to shut the **** up? I already typed all this theorycraft up once. And it seems the more you test, the more right I am except on a few minor things. (Some attack strings have been added as true combos now, which may replace some of the older combos that were ruined)

Sheesh.
:093:

 
Ripple

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so what if falco can't go even with snake anymore? fox probably does now and DK MIGHT and it looks like luigi and marth will be a force to be reckoned with
 
Z

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Falco can now only grab Snake 2-3 times, i managed to grab MK 3 times but the 3rd grab traded with an attack. 2 Grabs to MK seems to be the norm.

Most other characters are 2 grabs max, bowser seems like 3 grabs.

As a Falco player, i think this is great. No more bull**** damage via CG. I am all for balancing matchups even though it effects my character.

It might even be a good trade if Pikachu can no longer CG **** Falco.

Sheik can still get in a few tilts and her Fair seems to be useful now offstage.

As a Fox player, he can still do a few uptilt juggles but not as many. Shine does a lil more knockback, so Shine Spiking might be back. As a lightweight, he is going to die sooner, but his Upsmash will kill sooner.


I really like this overall.

Faster matches, no abusable Tiltlock BS and CGs. Game overall still plays the same, with less Shenanigans.


Snake does kill earlier, but so does everyone else. Faster matches are probably my selling point, I cant stand 5-6 minute snoozefest.

This might be the kick in the *** that Brawl needed, and its been right under our noses all along.
 
Dark 3nergy

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HeroMystic said:
That looks like that could be really broken with just using SDI away.
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thats with no SDI, its still good to test it though

i got another vid on the way of Pikas CG on all the space animals; both dthrow and fthrow
 
Z

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Good for sheik, she needed a buff. She couldnt kill for **** in 1.0

Although, she will die earlier as a lightweight.

Since this is an overall change to every character , it sorta balances itself out.

MK will probably still be too good with 1.1
 
SuSa

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Ripple said:
so what if falco can't go even with snake anymore? fox probably does now and DK MIGHT and it looks like luigi and marth will be a force to be reckoned with
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Are you implying that Fox can often get in on Snake?

Oh boy... I might just have to die from laughter. :laugh: At best he can punish us. We just have to sit there prone and get scared when he runs towards us or puts himself in the air.... run towards = bad | air = utilt. :laugh:

It's one of those matchups that no Snake knows. My only experience is like 2 tourney matches and a match with Champ aaaaaggggggeeeeesssss ago. But he suffers what I refer to as the Jigglypuff problem.

Falco only gets in on Snake due to laz0rz. Fox has... well.. speed to punish and decent setups out of grab. And his lasers are more effective vs grenades, and he's one of the few chars who can actually kill snake under 140% :laugh: so I'll give you that.

Marth highly depends... a lot of his game revolves around low knockback to capitalize frame traps on Snake... and grenades often don't really effect him as much due to the smaller knockback in 1.0... I can see him remaining about the same he already is, with a slightly worse juggle game but a better gimping game.
 
Kiru

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I might host an online tourney with 1.1 ratio just for testing, and i could record opinions about how things are changed.
 
Cherry64

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Kiru said:
I might host an online tourney with 1.1 ratio just for testing, and i could record opinions about how things are changed.
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I have a strong hate for wi-fi but even I would join this. We should see if we can get some top players to duke this **** out in an online enviroment to post how the chars differ in strength, grabs and just all around stuff. If anyone will know their char it will be them
 
Supermodel From Paris

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I think Jigglypuff is at mid tier in the 1.1x environment. Her gimping capabilities are AMAZING. She kills so early and is really scary off-stage.
 
•Col•

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Supermodel From Paris said:
I think Jigglypuff is at mid tier in the 1.1x environment. Her gimping capabilities are AMAZING. She kills so early and is really scary off-stage.
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Omg, and I just realized..... CAN REST ACTUALLY BE USED FOR KILLING NOW?

Also, cant she combo into it with dair...? Or.. no? I really have no idea what Brawl Jigglypuff can do, lol.
 
Ripple

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jiggs is NOT midtier. she is just as terrible as before. she still has the same weaknesses as before and will die around 50-60%

I personally thing she's the worst character in this version
 
Life

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@Colaya Dair combos into Rest if it trips.

So in other words, "SAKURAAAAAAAAAAAAI!" is the only thing Brawl Jiggs has going for her.
 
Life

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Me?
I get my posts ignored all the time so perhaps I'm a little jaded.

There's really not much to say about MK in DR1.1 Brawl. He can still plank/scrooge/etc, Shuttle Loop is somewhat better, tornado gets nerfed, not a whole lot changes... or I'm just really shortsighted.
 
Cherry64

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DarkStar said:
I love how you completely ignored my post -_-
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Not everyone notices everything, especially with low post counts. No offence meant but trusting someone who looks like they are new to the boards as you, and appear to be engaging in actual conversations that would regard major ruleset changing. In a lot of peoples minds guys new people who haven't played the old ruleset for a long time don't really hold much water in discussions regarding how to make the old ruleset better.

Ya Feel?

As for MK, there are a lot of people theory crafting only. This isn't Super Theory Bro's Brawl so until something is tested about him, he shouldn't be a reason to shoot this ruleset down. Yes we can make educated guesses but we don't Know do we? also how buffed will the shuttle loop be? how early will he die? Ganon being stronger will make his punishes hurt that much more? His gimps would get stronger if he hit Uair with his toe? Hell I could theory craft like the best but we simply do not know what will happen. Lets Find a way to Test this.
 
Moozle

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I was helping someone test this, and it seems pretty legit. We got a lot of matches recorded, so I hope he puts them up soon. Peach has a much easier time killing, which is awesome :)
 
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