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ZSS General Discussion

da K.I.D.

Smash Hero
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Aug 22, 2006
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sonic can do that too. its fun seeing somebody caught in my up smash by the time the go is off the screen.

In slightly related news, have you guys seen snakeees recent vids?

pretty much every ZSS I watch I know exactly what their doing/going for a majority of the time, but his is so random I find it much harder to follow him.
 

NickRiddle

#negativeNick
Joined
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sonic can do that too. its fun seeing somebody caught in my up smash by the time the go is off the screen.

In slightly related news, have you guys seen snakeees recent vids?

pretty much every ZSS I watch I know exactly what their doing/going for a majority of the time, but his is so random I find it much harder to follow him.
He has recent vids?
I wanna see.
 

Noobicidal

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Messages
3,551
I started learning how to use ZSS recently. After the two hours of getting used to her awkward playstyle, she has been increasingly fun to play as.
 

da K.I.D.

Smash Hero
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Rochester, NY
what kind of move stuns somebody in place for like a full second, AND THAN has hitstun ON TOP of that.

thats effing broken. like, you can try to combo them, while they are staggering, and if you miss, it doesnt even matter cus when they break out they are still in hitstun and you can hit them anyway.
 

VSC.D-Torr

Smash Hero
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what kind of move stuns somebody in place for like a full second, AND THAN has hitstun ON TOP of that.

thats effing broken. like, you can try to combo them, while they are staggering, and if you miss, it doesnt even matter cus when they break out they are still in hitstun and you can hit them anyway.
Quoted for truth.
 

Z1GMA

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 10, 2008
Messages
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Sweden
I like how 1 hit leads to 39% (Or mostly, at least around 35%.)

Techniqly, ZSS has the most damaging Dsmash in the game.
ICs Double Dsmash can deal around 45%, but it's very situational.

21% damage + free follow-up... I love Dsmash.
 

culexus・wau

Purchased premium only to change name ><
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This thing is also pretty damn safe on block/whiff if we buffer an escape or interruption

Like for a brawl poke it's preeettty safe
 

Nefarious B

Smash Champion
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Frisco you know
It is safe. The only move that is frame 5 OOS that I can think of is dolphin slash. If you space even somewhat decently you can't be hit by that. We have frame 1 invincibility, if you buff down b you cannot be, say, grabbed by DDD for dsmash. So it is actually 100% safe in theory
 

NickRiddle

#negativeNick
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You could always mash out almost this fast anyway.
Just mash... quickly...
I get out of IC semi-charged u-smashes at like 120%....
Also, buffering the mashing helps a lot.
 

solecalibur

Smash Master
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Mar 29, 2008
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Ok, so I found this really easy and fast way to grab break. First of off, you need set your d-pad to anything that helps you grab break. I set mines to shield and jump. When you get grabbed all you gotta do is use your index finger to hold the control stick in a direction like down, then start rotating the d-pad with your thumb and rapidly hit the c-stick with your other thumb. The direction you're hitting the c-stick must be different than the direction you're holding the control stick. This alone will break out of grabs almost instantly. You don't even need to rotate the control stick, just holding it makes hitting the c-stick count as 3 inputs every time. Doing this method also leaves a lot of your fingers free to hit other buttons like L+R and the face buttons to break out even faster!

This is really effective against the IC's and Olimar! Makes it really hard for IC's to cg at lower percents and makes it impossible for Olimar to throw after a grab at low percents. TRY THIS!!!

the tl;dr verison of the vid, just set your taunts to other things and mash
 
Joined
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I found a way to make the Peach match-up a lot easier, if anyone cares.

As you guys know, Peach's shield pressure game is no joke. When you shield, she can dair to eat your shield, crash down on it with a fair, and then do any combination of jab shenanigans and no matter how you answer it you're putting yourself in a bad position. It isn't unbeatable, but it is very annoying and you'll probably eat a big hit no matter what you do.

A lot of people I talked to about this suggested not shielding, and instead eating the dair and using SDI to escape it. This is a good idea, except you take a lot of damage using this method.

Instead, shield the dair, and release during the last hit or two of the move.

At higher percents, you don't really have to do anything, since dair doesn't legitimately combo into anything. You take very little damage and are given the opportunity to reset. You're much faster than Peach is, so escaping follow-ups is pretty easy.

At low percents, or if you want a harder punish, release your shield just before the last hit or two and start mashing up on both control sticks as fast as possible. You take a small amount of damage but land an up air, which is of course a very good thing.

The reason I think this is the best way to escape Peach's shield pressure shenanigans is because it makes them basically harmless; you take less than 4% damage each time you perform this and reset, plus no damage is really done to your shield. No more rolling and hoping she doesn't read you, no more sitting there waiting for an opening on your shield wishing you had a grab, no more "just don't shield lol."
 

NickRiddle

#negativeNick
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Or... now get this.
You turn away from Peach.
Wait for her to come near you, and bair her.
The only move Peach has that can contest with bair, in the air is her slow fair.

Or, you can SH uncharged paralyzer > uair before you land. Makes it a ***** for her to come in.
 

culexus・wau

Purchased premium only to change name ><
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Zero Suit and Pink Dress, With Dsmash Bomber

Zero Suit and Peach Team is R-A-P-E.

Zero Suit can stand behind and support a floating peach so well, Dsmash covers cross-up rolls/airdodge, High and Low SideBs can give a huge hitbox for peach, Paralyzer shots under high floats, We can even crawl under high dairs <3

And Peach covers the fact that so many people want to shield zero suit's moves with her amazing shield pressure, and once someone is under peach's dair pressure, We can cover enemies trying to get in or escape options pretty damn well.

Peach gives the teams turnips, and zero suit's turnip game can lead into huge damage [dsmash ofc]. Peach isn't half bad with Suit Pieces either, having tricks to catch the item while spacing with floating aerials and whatnot, she can also hold onto a piece for you without having to give up her aerials [Floated Aerials too good <3]. Peach can also sometimes save you with a turnip toss offstage so you can flipstool it.

Dsmash -> Sweetspot Peach Upsmash is not difficult to land at all and kills super early, this is where the meat of the kills come from if you're using sideB to control space.

Double Dsmash to Peach Bomber does like 40%, allows you to follow up or hit people trying to interrupt the combo, and peach is almost always in range if you're playing the team. Furthermore Peach can still float afterwards, and the heart hitbox can also hit additional people.

In theory [Me and Praxis never got the chance to see if this could work], We MIGHT have a nice infinite/extremely damaging set-up with Dsmash -> Peach Footstool -> Float at the correct height -> Repeat.

The only problems I had with the team is that it really seems like peach and zero suit need to remain close. and its hard to reverse a bad situation with them. Furthermore the team falls apart really easily if someone is forced to be in 2 v 1 [We do better then some others though, its not like we're helpless if left alone, unlike some characters.] This team also seems like it has a problem with DDD :x

Discuss further?
 

Praxis

Smash Hero
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People argue that a lot of characters can do 40% combos off of ZSS dsmash, but Peach Bomber PASSES THROUGH SHIELDS to do 18%. if teamed with DK or Snake they need to be nearby to help. You can bomber from halfway across the stage and you'll usually still connect even if your other opponent is in front of you, and bounce up in to a position to follow up or Bair the person chasing you.

It's a great team dynamic.
 

VSC.D-Torr

Smash Hero
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Zero Suit and Pink Dress, With Dsmash Bomber

Zero Suit and Peach Team is R-A-P-E.

Zero Suit can stand behind and support a floating peach so well, Dsmash covers cross-up rolls/airdodge, High and Low SideBs can give a huge hitbox for peach, Paralyzer shots under high floats, We can even crawl under high dairs <3

And Peach covers the fact that so many people want to shield zero suit's moves with her amazing shield pressure, and once someone is under peach's dair pressure, We can cover enemies trying to get in or escape options pretty damn well.

Peach gives the teams turnips, and zero suit's turnip game can lead into huge damage [dsmash ofc]. Peach isn't half bad with Suit Pieces either, having tricks to catch the item while spacing with floating aerials and whatnot, she can also hold onto a piece for you without having to give up her aerials [Floated Aerials too good <3]. Peach can also sometimes save you with a turnip toss offstage so you can flipstool it.

Dsmash -> Sweetspot Peach Upsmash is not difficult to land at all and kills super early, this is where the meat of the kills come from if you're using sideB to control space.

Double Dsmash to Peach Bomber does like 40%, allows you to follow up or hit people trying to interrupt the combo, and peach is almost always in range if you're playing the team. Furthermore Peach can still float afterwards, and the heart hitbox can also hit additional people.

In theory [Me and Praxis never got the chance to see if this could work], We MIGHT have a nice infinite/extremely damaging set-up with Dsmash -> Peach Footstool -> Float at the correct height -> Repeat.

The only problems I had with the team is that it really seems like peach and zero suit need to remain close. and its hard to reverse a bad situation with them. Furthermore the team falls apart really easily if someone is forced to be in 2 v 1 [We do better then some others though, its not like we're helpless if left alone, unlike some characters.] This team also seems like it has a problem with DDD :x

Discuss further?
Good read FlameWaveK. Very interesting note on how Peach Bomber can be used in teams.

I'll show this post to hiROI as he and I are static partners.

Also, me and hiROI have been testing that infinite setup as well and it seems like it works. Unfortunately we don't get the chance to practice this enough to fully get this down with me having an erratic college schedule. We haven't been able to use it in match, mainly because we haven't been in a situation to really do it.
 

Praxis

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I don't think footstool smash infinites are practical. People have a teammate, and you have to get the setup and then get in position without the opponent getting in the middle of it...and Peach's run speed is so low...

Peach Bomber's a *lot* more useful because you can do it from halfway across the stage, it pops you up in a very safe position, and passes through shields making it hard for your opponent to block you easily.
 

NickRiddle

#negativeNick
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I don't think footstool smash infinites are practical. People have a teammate, and you have to get the setup and then get in position without the opponent getting in the middle of it...and Peach's run speed is so low...

Peach Bomber's a *lot* more useful because you can do it from halfway across the stage, it pops you up in a very safe position, and passes through shields making it hard for your opponent to block you easily.
Psh, ZSS's Footstool infinites are legit...
















































With Ness.
 

VSC.D-Torr

Smash Hero
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Kissimmee, FL (Poinciana)
I don't think footstool smash infinites are practical. People have a teammate, and you have to get the setup and then get in position without the opponent getting in the middle of it...and Peach's run speed is so low...

I agree with this to a great extent. I would only try to attempt this if we have a 2v1 situation, but usually if we are in such situation, our opponent is usually at death percentage anyway so no need for the infinite.

Peach Bomber's a *lot* more useful because you can do it from halfway across the stage, it pops you up in a very safe position, and passes through shields making it hard for your opponent to block you easily.

I will try to have this implemented in our (hiROI and I) team game.
Responses in purple


Psh, ZSS's Footstool infinites are legit...

with Ness.
Sometimes, I envy you.
 

culexus・wau

Purchased premium only to change name ><
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I wish I was envied by other zero suit players :(

</3

Also, how the **** do we handle wario in teams, I can fight him fine if I have space [singles], but... you don't get that luxury in doubles :<
 

NickRiddle

#negativeNick
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I wish I was envied by other zero suit players :(

</3

Also, how the **** do we handle wario in teams, I can fight him fine if I have space [singles], but... you don't get that luxury in doubles :<
Think about it from Wario's POV. He cannot weave in and out of your spacing, as you can always just ignore him and go for his partner/have your partner help you mess him up.
It's teams, don't think of things in a 1v1 situation.
 

NickRiddle

#negativeNick
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How do you guys feel ZSS does vs campy snakes?
IMHO, campy Snake is the hardest Snake for ZSS. Snake's camp always forces ZSS to approach (Well, unless she has the stock lead.). Approaching Snake is... not easy to say the least.
Plus, if the Snake is amazing at camping (see: MVD) he can create setups that make it feel like there is no safe option at all times.
 

MdrnDayMercutio

Smash Champion
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Mar 15, 2008
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Western Mass
That's what I was thinking.

Just looking at my options after running into a problem with a very campy snake out here that I couldn't figure out last tourney. I feel like ZSS can deal with it decently on a smaller, BF type, stage if their aggro game is good though.
 

culexus・wau

Purchased premium only to change name ><
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Think about it from Wario's POV. He cannot weave in and out of your spacing, as you can always just ignore him and go for his partner/have your partner help you mess him up.
It's teams, don't think of things in a 1v1 situation.
I just feel helpless vs him and I don't like being a liability to my team if I don't have to :<

its true that you shouldn't think about 1 v 1 situations all the time when talking of teams, but I don't like that the only solution I was able to come up with was "run away, get praxis to handle wario [hopefully]"



Campy Snakes make you take lots of risks, which is kinda bad seeing how easy snake can **** us with his punishments.

If the snake is adamant about not approaching, it gets a little hard.
 
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