ZSS General Discussion

[NickRiddle]

Platforms are stupid.
I'm also bad, so take what I did with a grain of salt.
Or like, 500 of them. (lolsalty joke.)
Just... when Sonic starts going above your paralyzer, stand there and do nothing.
I didn't figure that part out.
Stupid, yup.

 

[Z1GMA]

What's the top gayest thing we have on Wario?

Is GR > Dsmash > Pivot Grab 100% garantueed if he has no bike?

 

[Zero]

What's the top gayest thing we have on Wario?

Is GR > Dsmash > Pivot Grab 100% garantueed if he has no bike?

Yes. 10yesses

 

[NickRiddle]

GR > D-smash is never guaranteed.
Now, if he has no bike OR jump, then yes.
Wario can hold away and jump before ZSS can d-smash.

 

[Z1GMA]

GR > D-smash is never guaranteed.
Now, if he has no bike OR jump, then yes.
Wario can hold away and jump before ZSS can d-smash.

Oh.. Ok.

My favourite thing to do when grabbing him on low/mid% is
GR -> Up+b -> Tech Chase (A good read can lead to a new grab)

Also, at low% (like 0% to 20%),
GR -> Up+b -> Jab Lock iDA + (Forced rising) ->
Dsmash -> Dsmash -> Grab -> 1x pummel -> GR -> Fullhop Fair.
53% TRUE Combo

And at near 0% (like 0% to 5%) you can even
GR -> Up+b -> Jab Lock iDA -> 3x Jab Lock Ftilts + (Forced rising) ->
Dsmash -> Dsmash -> Grab -> 1x pummel -> GR -> Fullhop Fair.
71% TRUE Combo

The Jab Lock only occurs if the Wario is DI'ing towards/away from you,
'cause if he gets sent straight down, the iDA will be 1 frame too late.
(Straight down reaches the ground faster than diagonaly.)

Wario can tech the up+b (yes, at 0%), but if he doesn't,
he's eating 71% of garantueed damage.

 

[NickRiddle]

Fair is SDIable.
People can mash after 1 pummel.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

They don't DI the upB? lol
Not a true combo

 

[Z1GMA]

Fair is SDIable.
People can mash after 1 pummel.

So Bair instead.
And no pummel

Then it's a 65% true Combo instead.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

What about grab release > regrab

Guarenteed combo

 

[Z1GMA]

They don't DI the upB? lol
Not a true combo

Thing is they can't, it only hits the Wario ONCE after the GR.
and that single hit alone sends him down (with a Bounce Animation, yes, aven at 0%).

If he doesn't tech, it's a true combo.
Trust me.

What about grab release > regrab

Guarenteed combo

That isn't nearly as awesome ;p

And it takes forever to get him to a high% that way.

Plus, this combo I'm talking about is easier :}

 

[Z1GMA]

Dp


____________

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I see, that's cool.

 

[Falcos_feather]

Oh.. Ok.

My favourite thing to do when grabbing him on low/mid% is
GR -> Up+b -> Tech Chase (A good read can lead to a new grab)

Also, at low% (like 0% to 20%),
GR -> Up+b -> Jab Lock iDA + (Forced rising) ->
Dsmash -> Dsmash -> Grab -> 1x pummel -> GR -> Fullhop Fair.
53% TRUE Combo

And at near 0% (like 0% to 5%) you can even
GR -> Up+b -> Jab Lock iDA -> 3x Jab Lock Ftilts + (Forced rising) ->
Dsmash -> Dsmash -> Grab -> 1x pummel -> GR -> Fullhop Fair.
71% TRUE Combo

The Jab Lock only occurs if the Wario is DI'ing towards/away from you,
'cause if he gets sent straight down, the iDA will be 1 frame too late.
(Straight down reaches the ground faster than diagonaly.)

Wario can tech the up+b (yes, at 0%), but if he doesn't,
he's eating 71% of garantueed damage.

I just tried this and its awesome.

Ye Wario can tech it but its not like hes expecting an up+B from your grabrelease,
plus even if he does he can mess up the timing.
No tech and hes screwed.

 

[da K.I.D.]

you have to tech the up b spike at 0?

i thought it just gave you that offbalence type of knockback that you cant tech and just have to wait out.

 

[Z1GMA]

you have to tech the up b spike at 0?

i thought it just gave you that offbalence type of knockback that you cant tech and just have to wait out.

You're perfectly right.
But, for some reason, GR -> Up+b sends him down "slamming" into the ground.
Even at 0%.

About the Pummel -> GR -> RG...
It's useless under like 70%, since ppl can mash out of it, like Nick mentioned.

But, this combo is inescapable if he doesn't tech the up+b.
And it's best used at very low%, unlike the Pummel -> GR -> RG.

One other thing with the Pummel -> GR -> RG...
The process (Damage Racking) takes so long, that Wario's Waft gets charged.
Sure, if you kill him, it's worth it, but still.
... The Combo, however, doesn't help charging his Waft.

 

[Nefarious B]

I'm glad someone else realized how useful GR->up b is. It hits with the super spike hitbox, which forces a tech at 0. I only thought of it as a tech chase though, I didn't know that a jab lock was possible if they DI though, that makes it very very useful I think.

So you could do that combo, then finish with dsmash dsmash grab and then begin a grab release infinite when they are at high enough percent to make it feasible

 

[Z1GMA]

I'm glad someone else realized how useful GR->up b is. It hits with the super spike hitbox, which forces a tech at 0. I only thought of it as a tech chase though, I didn't know that a jab lock was possible if they DI though, that makes it very very useful I think.

So you could do that combo, then finish with dsmash dsmash grab and then begin a grab release infinite when they are at high enough percent to make it feasible

Oh, so you already do this ;p

Glad to see someone else find it useful, too, then.

Though, the Jab Lock, like I said, only occurs if they DI in/out.

 

[NickRiddle]

So... does anybody else really hope that there is a better ZSS in Japan than Ikki?

 

[Zero]

Yeah, I hope.

 

[Deathfox30]

Oh.. Ok.

My favourite thing to do when grabbing him on low/mid% is
GR -> Up+b -> Tech Chase (A good read can lead to a new grab)

Also, at low% (like 0% to 20%),
GR -> Up+b -> Jab Lock iDA + (Forced rising) ->
Dsmash -> Dsmash -> Grab -> 1x pummel -> GR -> Fullhop Fair.
53% TRUE Combo

And at near 0% (like 0% to 5%) you can even
GR -> Up+b -> Jab Lock iDA -> 3x Jab Lock Ftilts + (Forced rising) ->
Dsmash -> Dsmash -> Grab -> 1x pummel -> GR -> Fullhop Fair.
71% TRUE Combo

The Jab Lock only occurs if the Wario is DI'ing towards/away from you,
'cause if he gets sent straight down, the iDA will be 1 frame too late.
(Straight down reaches the ground faster than diagonaly.)

Wario can tech the up+b (yes, at 0%), but if he doesn't,
he's eating 71% of garantueed damage.

This is awesome. GR > ^B > iDA lock > F tiltx3 > D smashx2 > Grab > GR > ^B > DAL seems like it'd be better, though. He's in DAL percents after the second D smash and I'd think DA would be fresh enough to do it since it would only be in the stale move thing once. Only down side is he could tech it, but how likely is that? Especially on MLG TV's.

 

[fkacyan]

Especially on MLG TV's.

the_only_reason_zss_is_viable.jpg

 

[Zero]

he_mad.jpg

 

[Albert.]

I was feelin’ like a creep
As I watched you asleep
Face down in the grass,
in the park, in the middle
of a hot afternoon
Your top was untied
And I thought how nice
It’d be to follow the sweat down your spine

You’re like my best friend
aw after a good, good drunk
You and me wake up and make love after a deep sleep
Where I was Dreamin’, I was Dreamin’ of a
Dreamgirll

 

[Z1GMA]

¤¤¤¤¤¤
¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤

I uploaded a clip on the Combo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JE1aGoopoJ4

This won't always work, since Wario can tech the up+b,
but it is awesome nontheless.

¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
¤¤¤¤¤¤

 

[Nefarious B]

This is pretty cool. Can you not continue the lock longer though? The thing is if you manage to get them to around 60, you can pummel release infinite most people from there. What's the window for dash attack jab locking?

 

[Z1GMA]

This is pretty cool. Can you not continue the lock longer though?
Should work for as long as Wario keeps getting "bounced" instead of knocked over.

What's the window for dash attack jab locking?
I'm not sure what you're asking :0

______________________

 

[VSC.D-Torr]

What's the window for dash attack jab locking?
I'm not sure what you're asking :0

I think he's asking what's the general percentage area that the dash attack will keep Wario in that jab-locked state.

I could be wrong.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I think you can dash attack, ftilt, dash attack, ftilt ftilt, dash attack.
Like we do to snake

 

[Z1GMA]

Hmm.. Hard to say how long DA/Ftilt can lock.
As you know, Stale Moves makes it work at even higher %'s.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

it was called shadow stepping what we had against snake, it was a bthrow at 0%, if unteched it lead into a lock similar to this one. it locked all the way to the end of the stage, ending in dsmash dsmash downb.

 

[Z1GMA]

it was called shadow stepping what we had against snake, it was a bthrow at 0%, if unteched it lead into a lock similar to this one. it locked all the way to the end of the stage, ending in dsmash dsmash downb.

Zero Stepping?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Hbf9Zcx4ME

I think you can dash attack, ftilt, dash attack, ftilt ftilt, dash attack.
Like we do to snake

That DA at the end there knocks Wario over.
At least if its early hitbubble connects.

I played around with this, and it seems
GR Up+b DA Ftilt Ftilt DA Ftilt Ftilt'
is as far as the Jab Locking works.

This + Dsmash Dsmash = 62%

.....

If only there was a way to start a Jablock after Dsmash > Footstool.

 

[VSC.D-Torr]

Good stuff Z1GMA on this find

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

what about da ftilt da ftilt at the end?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

THE **** THAT WAS YOURS?

Way to cool, that netted me a 2stock last tourney against a snake, haha.

 

[Z1GMA]

what about da ftilt da ftilt at the end?

Dunno.
Try it out yourself and see what working formulas you can find.

THE **** THAT WAS YOURS?

Way to cool, that netted me a 2stock last tourney against a snake, haha.

Which means I indirectly 2-stocked a Snake in a tourney
JK

...

Do you guys think Dtilt -> running up+b could set more ppl up for this?
Getting the Super Spike is pretty hard.

 

[VSC.D-Torr]

Do you guys think Dtilt -> runing up+b could set more ppl up for this?
Getting the Super Spike is pretty hard.

Imma try this setup tomorrow and take notes of what happens

 

[Z1GMA]

Imma try this setup tomorrow and take notes of what happens

Coo'.
Don't hope for too much, though.

I think setting this up is hard outside of GR -> up+b on wario ;{

 

[VSC.D-Torr]

It never hurts to try, but I understand what you're saying.

 

[Nefarious B]

Yeah this isn't at all reliable outside of Wario's release.

BTW, you can dsmash footstool dair to jab lock (I believe) any character at around 0 %. It was thought to only work on tall characters before, but I recently discovered if you SH and and wait to footstool as they're popping out of the stun, it will give you enough time to lock them. I believe I was testing on Olimar, if it makes any difference.

You can't continue this jab lock though, you only have time to hit them as they are already getting up. JUST an fyi for anyone who wanted to use it

 

[Z1GMA]

Yeah this isn't at all reliable outside of Wario's release.

BTW, you can dsmash footstool dair to jab lock (I believe) any character at around 0 %. It was thought to only work on tall characters before, but I recently discovered if you SH and and wait to footstool as they're popping out of the stun, it will give you enough time to lock them. I believe I was testing on Olimar, if it makes any difference.

You can't continue this jab lock though, you only have time to hit them as they are already getting up. JUST an fyi for anyone who wanted to use it

We should be able to start an easy Jab Lock on ROB this way, right?