Zero Suit Samus Questions & Answers

[culexus・wau]

So This Character.

Zero Suit Samus.

Something like "clicked" with me when I was playing her a few days ago.

So I decided to pick her up.

So Questions:

What are some basics and No-Nos that a lot of starting Zoot Soots do?

I heard from different places that nair doesn't stale, but conflicting statements on wether or not it unstales other moves, clarifcation please?

When the **** do I dsmash? :< I literally have no idea how to set-up this move.

Thanks in advance, I might post a vid or two in the critique thread in a week or so.

 

[MdrnDayMercutio]

DSmash to punish large lag. Spot dodges with a charge perhaps, and edge guarding. Beyond that it's for reads.

DON'T FSMASH.

Don't expect to hit with SideB, use it to space.

As for Nair, that's for someone else to answer.

 

[culexus・wau]

welp no fsmash is a no brainer.

All I know is.

SideB is a spacer.

dtilt is amazing.

Pivot rolling is ****

back roll sucks.

Dash attack is legit [it can even cross-up <3]

uptilt is bad out in the open.

grab only when you KNOW you'll get it.

DownB invincibility rocks.

jab is really funny for interupting people.

I have no idea what to do after a dsmash other then bair or grab :<

anything else?

 

[wWw Dazwa]

Nair doesn't enter your stale moves queue at all. So it doesn't stale, nor does it contribute to the un-staling of other moves.

 

[Nefarious B]

Yess another Cali convert haha

In my experience the easiest way to set up for dsmash, or most smashes really, are those awkward moves that put you in hitstun but still pretty close to the opponent. Think falcos dair, how many times have you seen SK land charged fsmashes out of dairing a grounded opponent.

ZSS's moves that work well for that are dtilt, dash attack, and uair (backside at higher %)

People are scared of our airgame so that can usually lead to either excessive airdodging or wild laggy dairs (depending on the character and the player). Those are both punishable with dsmash

 

[solecalibur]

be careful of jabs btw they can PS the 3rd hit (im sure you know) so the mind game of the 3rd jab comes into place =3

 

[Darky-Sama]

The only good thing about her forward smash is that it doesn't have hitlag once it hits someone. I've been doing a bit of research for uses with attacks that have no hitlag ever since I watched that video proving that you can't SDI while inside of Meta Knights tornado.

...it's impossible to SDI, that's it.
Her forward smash has no other uses.

 

[Nefarious B]

well if it has no hitlag it can be useful when fighting around the CS plats. I've been air camping at the top of that transformation because the statues make side b and dash attack soooo punishable

 

[Darky-Sama]

After a stun maybe. I did notice something. Considering which part of the forward smash you hit them with, it changes rather they go upward at an angle or horizontal. I'm assuming that's the case because I've hit them horizontally numerous times - and since they can't SDI to influence which way they're being hit... yeah. It could prove pretty useful if we can find a way to guarantee that they're knocked horizontally. That'll place characters at a REALLY bad position to recover, if they even do.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Yeah you can only do it when you've still got momentum from getting hit vertically. It's pretty cool, it makes you realize dair actually has pretty nice priority

Aerial vs Aerial has no priority

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

There's no such thing as priority.

 

[Nefarious B]

I say priority knowing this, and hoping people won't nitpick and understand what I'm talking about. Clearly, I was wrong to have such faith in the ZSS community

To me dair seems to have the same hitbox as GaW's dair, though it's probly not as disjointed

 

[solecalibur]

It probly is its just bad to use since we dont have an UpB to make it viable (like more downairs expect sonics)

 

[Nefarious B]

I think it's useful if you are trying to get out of a juggle, the stall fall is hard for a lot of characters to beat vertically, though of course it can be outspaced pretty easily horizontally

 

[Zero]

Eh, dair is pretty beatable by everyone with a good uair, if they're paying attention. You gotta mix it up with airdodges to make it viable. Certainly not as spammable as Sonic's or GnW's.

 

[Z1GMA]

I played a Snake the other day.
I was above him in the air, in Down+b State.

He threw a grenade upwards at me, and then it looked like I Flipstooled the grenade.
Can her Flipjump do this, or did Snakes Hitbox(body) grew taller as he threw the grenade?
I'm too lazy to test it, but I figured you guys should know.

 

[NickRiddle]

You can flipstool items, and invincible characters~ *Only wrote things that make it different.)

 

[Yeroc]

lol, I showed ph00t that trick like 2 years ago today.

 

[Darky-Sama]

Yeah, she can flipstool off of any character or item; moving or not. Turnips, grenades, bombs, armor pieces, bananas... and MAYBE Wario's Bike + Tires, but I haven't really had the opportunity to use it on those.

 

[Zero]

Definitely Wario's bike and tyres. They're non-energy items, so you can do it.

 

[MdrnDayMercutio]

In the example above, Flipstooling a thrown grenade, does the grenade drop down and fall like a foot/flip stool on a char in the air?

 

[Darky-Sama]

No, flipstooling doesn't have to affect any character or item. There's a normal footstool and a featherstool. The character you jump on during a feather stool animation isn't affected by it, almost like you never touched them. Footstooling, yes, they are affected. There's no such thing as footstooling an item normally, so it doesn't change their falling animation. It registers as a featherstool, basically- 'cause of her flipjump properties.

ZSS's down+B can do both of those depending on when you click the jump button. Also, if they're hanging on a ledge and have invincibility frames, you can still flipstool off of them.

 

[MdrnDayMercutio]

Ah. Was curious, just to know.

No idea how I would have used the information, since I rarely even find chances to flipstool items anyway. Waddles probably can't be flipstooled can they?

 

[Darky-Sama]

Well, they do have a character shape and hurtbox, so they should be. I haven't tested it on them though, so no idea.

 

[MdrnDayMercutio]

Hmm... I'll have to try that than. More movement options vs D3 couldn't be a bad thing.

 

[Darky-Sama]

Yeah, it wouldn't hurt. But you'd be approaching D3 at a really awkward rate. It could place you at a disadvantage just as easily as it could him; if he's expecting it (which he'd have time to predict it due to the down+B start-up flip).

Still worth looking into.

 

[Z1GMA]

I must be blind -- I can't find data on Zamus' Jump.
How many frames does it take before we can insert a command after we jump?
4 ?

 

[Darky-Sama]

4 frames sounds about right. It doesn't include the jump data, but there's a lot of info on each of her aerials at the bottom of the OP that *might* be able to give you a general idea.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=265245

 

[Nefarious B]

5 frames for our jump crouch, which is tied for the fastest time in the game with many other characters.

 

[Z1GMA]

Ah, ok.. So a rising SH Uair takes 9 frames.
Does anyone know if that's fast enough to garantuee Dash Attack -> SH Uair at around 50%?

I've been landing a lot of those one a Wario lately, but I'm not sure if it's garantueed.

Way sexier than Dash Attack -> Utilt imo.

 

[Darky-Sama]

I actually hate dash attack -> utilt. The only time I do that is on Marth when he gets knocked offstage (on battlefield/smashville) because of the whole stage spike effect. lol

Dash attack -> Dtilt is better IMO.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Ah, ok.. So a rising SH Uair takes 9 frames.
Does anyone know if that's fast enough to garantuee Dash Attack -> SH Uair at around 50%?

I've been landing a lot of those one a Wario lately, but I'm not sure if it's garantueed.

Way sexier than Dash Attack -> Utilt imo.

It doesn't work. The attack has to be six frames or slower in order to combo from a dash attack at mid percents. The only things that are guarnateed are jab, utilt, dtilt, ftilt, and dash attack. At high percents things might be different. I'll test it.

Edit: This is actually seemingly confirmed and I'm really surprised. After dash attack lock percents (when dash attack sends them into a tumble, see Marth at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pItF4Sa5NHY#t=1m23s ) but the dash attack still connects if they don't DI, you have 8 or 9 frames of hitstun to work with instead of 6. If they DI up (and aren't too highly damaged) you can uair them.

It should be noted that air dodges and second jumps (I believe) have variable start times, so on Peach or Marth for instance, you could combo into other things like back air or forward air, since their air dodge takes a longer time to start.

 

[Z1GMA]

That's when I usually is able to Uair Wario out of DA. Over 60% somewhere.
If they tech or airdodge the DA, I find Uair to be able to catch them in those like 2 frames of tech-lag/landing-lag.

I tried it on Marth without DI+no reactions, and like you said, it didn't work.
But on Wario (and possibly most "fat" characters) it works without them DI'ing neutrally+no reactions.

Maybe this is great Vs DK/Bowser/D3.

But then again, if the opponent doesn't DI corrently + react, isn't it almost ALWAYS a better option to Dsmash?

¤¤¤¤¤¤¤

Also, must we be 6 frames or quicker when following up a DAL against all characters, or is it like 90% of the roster that we have 6 frames on?

 

[Dakpo]

so is the HD LAG at mlg bad? does it mess with play styles

 

[Peach Masta]

So I've been wondering. I haven't been keeping up with ZSS for awhile, but is that "infinite" on Rob really an infinite? I remember testing it awhile ago and he could buffer a normal get up before the dsmash could get off. I might have been doing it too slow though. So yeah..is it really an infinite?

 

[Zero]

Yes. It is.

 

[Z1GMA]

Can we Air Realease -> Buffered Side+b MK, or will he cancel it out/jump away?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

The tip of sideB is frame 31. Air release gives 21 frames advantage. Go figure.

 

[Z1GMA]

Could work as a mix-up, if the MK is positive you're gonna go for a garantueed Dashgrab or DA.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

No, it won't work. Pretty much anything they do beats it, safe for jump right into it.