Why MK should NOT be banned (the opinion from someone who actually fights them)

[M@v]

Lol I'm not really pro-banning Metaknight anymore SIMPLY because I know it's just not gonna happen. Although I must say ADHD, that your plea in first post was the logical equivalent of Indiana Jones climbing out of the fridge after being nuked and saying "ne1 who fkin died in dat explosion sux. its mad EZ 2 surviev dat sheit LOL step ur game up"

You also fail to consider the calculations of how much your own character cancels Metaknights strong points. Each tournament allows the community a better understanding of a characters strengths and weaknesses. Now if you pick 1 or 2 other characters and proceeded to do the same thing then yeah, you have a point. Otherwise, stfu and be happy you are making money off of the "My character ***** Metaknight" + "I am the best with my character" combination.

Lol, off topic but that scene was the biggest bull **** ive ever seen in any movie in my entire life.

 

[HeroMystic]

I saw a ganon take top 3 in a melee regional tournament. Learn to play the ****ing game.

Where the hell did Melee come from? Brawl is an entirely different game. Ganon is actually good in Melee.

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

I saw a ganon take top 3 in a melee regional tournament. Learn to play the ****ing game.

That's because Melee had more balance between the different tiers, while Brawl has BIG gaps between Top, and Low. In Melee, it was possible to beat opponents w/ better characters w/ a low tier as long as you were better than X player.

Brawl is not the case. A Brawl ganon will NEVER take a top 3 at a national/regional tournament. The natural mechanics of his move set can be abused.

 

[WindMajor]

ADHD, I apologize in advance if I'm not a high seated SBR-B member, or a respectable enough smasher.

Long post ahead, and no TL;DR, sorry.

I'm not going to argue with you that Metaknight isn't beatable. I understand that he IS beatable, and it has been demonstrated by many of the good players here in Smashboards, as well as yourself.

I will argue with you however, on how Metaknight potentially breaks the competitive aspect of Brawl.

1. Metaknight will never be at a disadvantaged position: Metaknight will pretty much always have the upper hand. Metaknight's most even matchup is against himself. His second most even matchup is against Diddy, Snake, Wario, Falco, IC's, and some others I'm probably forgetting. However, from the ones I've written, it's officially 55:45 on MK's favor, according to both MK's Matchup discussion thread, and the individual character's matchup thread. In other words, both parties agree that MK has the slight advantage.

Stage wise, it is said that MK does generally well on all stages. The only way to counterpick an MK is not getting a stage that is BAD for MK, but much rather a stage that is good for X character you are using. All this really means is that you aren't making MK worse, you are just helping yourself. No other character can say this for themselves other than MK. Snake/Diddy both suffer from Rainbow Cruise since the stage scrolls and mines/bananas will scroll and disappear along with the stage.

Anyways, what I'm trying to say is that it's pretty much impossible to put MK at a disadvantaged position. The most it'll ever go is probably even, but never at a disadvantage. However, let me make myself clear though. I don't think this is a good enough argument alone to ban MK, since even at a disadvantaged position, it is STILL possible to overcome a Metaknight.

What I want to say with this argument is that what's the point of playing a game if someone will pretty much always have the upper hand? It's like playing a game of basketball in which Team A always starts with the ball, and the only way Team B can score is if they steal the ball from Team A and score a point. Winning isn't impossible, but it's really hard, and there's NOTHING you can do to make the game more even or balanced. And just like that, the competitive aspect of the game will turn to trash, everyone will just CP Metaknight to get the game even. This leads me to my second argument:

2. Metaknight is over-centralized: Actually, I'm writing a post in another tab to further detail MK's dominance in tournament attendance and results. I'll post the link later, when I finish the post.

3. Metaknight can play gayer the rest of the cast: He's probably the best and most used character to plank with that I've ever witnessed. He's virtually unstoppable when he starts to plank, and I know this not because Smashboards told me, but because I've dealt with planking MKs myself. I am fully aware that there is a way to limit planking, and that is to set a grab limit. However, there are 2 problems with setting a grab limit.

A. There is no official grab limit yet: If there is, then just correct me and I'll understand, but since there isn't, it's completely up to the TOs to add one. If they don't add a planking limit, then MK can easily abuse that limit, along with any other character (although MK is known to do it better, and more often).

B. The rule won't always be enforced: I'm not sure if you guys know Excel Zero and Ling Ling from Puerto Rico, but if you have, then you've probably heard good things from them, like how they are a really good Brawl team. The reason why I'm bringing this up is because there was a situation in Pound 4 in which Team PR got planked by KSizzle+Zucco. When they reported it in to the TOs, they said that there was no planking limit. When Team PR showed the TOs the official Pound 4 ruleset, it was apparently ignored and Team PR got eliminated.

Puerto Rico left feeling cheated, and because of that event, Brawl in Puerto Rico is almost dead. Which leads me to my last argument....

4. Metaknight will make Brawl die: Metaknight is predicted to follow the same steps as Jin Kazama in Tekken 4. Actually, I lied. It's technically not a prediction since it's already happened here in Puerto Rico. Metaknight left us with such a bad taste for Brawl that a great portion of the Brawl community here quit (By the way, the Excel Zero/Ling Ling situation isn't the only MK related issue that happened to us). It REALLY sucks though because I'm part of the small portion that still wants to play, but now there's no competition here, and if I go to the states (hopefully for Apex), my competition will probably be Metaknight.

EDIT: I just read some posts before this one. If MK gets banned, a flock of MKs will probably stop playing. If MK doesn't get banned, then players will quit until the game dies. Either way, MK will make the game die.

So yeah, ADHD, I'm glad that you can beat Metaknight and all, but that's not really the problem. Metaknight's ability to play gay until the game dies is. I'm looking forward to your response.

 

[thespymachine]

This thread is making me frustrated. I disagree w/ everyone except the Puerto Rican players, Crashic, DA, and Stingers. ADHD is being really selfish at this point, and is not thinking about anyone besides himself and the possible pot he can win. ADHD has the MK match-up on point, but is afraid of the other high/mid tiers that can beat him. He's really not thinking straight, and not thinking about the future and the community as a whole. I recall incidents of proof from Xyro's Hobo Series w/ MK ban having an unusually high amount of entrants.

MK should be banned. Reasons why?
* Limits the meta-game of every tier below high tier(even some high tiers are debatable-look @ Rob)
* Encourages the focus on 1 type of playstyle(campy, planking, timeouts)
* Over-rides natural skill, even if one player is better than the MK, the MK will most likely win.

Creating a Circumstantial (Attacking the person) argument doesn't make his argument false.

Just take what he says into account, and use that info LOGICALLY.

And with your second and third points, for reasons to ban MK:
First of all, in ALL fighting games camping/turtle-style is the most efficient style.
Second, it takes skill to play ALL characters in the game.

 

[Syde7]

My only post in this thread unless someone directly quotes/replies to it:

It has gotten to the point that people want to do everything to make MK manageable, EXCEPT ban him.

At first it was tornado spamming on Luigi's Mansion (yeah, Olimar was broken here... but, using it as an example) so Luigi's Mansion gets banned.

Then, it was planking. So, they invent ledge-grabs rules.

Now (pt1) Scrooging and people are trying to think of ways to limit that.

Now (pt2) its d-air camping and people are trying to find ways to counter that (comparing time in the air vs avg or something, from what Ive heard through the grapevine).

Almost all of these are somewhat arbitrary- even the ledge-grabs. Does it apply to JUST MK? And the air time... again, JUST MK? Even with those in place, MK would STILL be (arguably) the best character, and (inarguably) in the top 3-4.

Like I said, people are wanting the character's inherent ability to abuse the game mechanics taken away/severely limited. Essentially, folks on the whole seem to want to do anything EXCEPT ban him. Unfortunately, all these other "solutions" are more arbitrary, harder to enforce, and down right silly than outright banning him.

Either leave the character "untouched" and let him do what he is fully capable of, or ban him. Yes, I know the community occasionally "tweaks" chars by banning certain things like stalls, or infinites, and other such things... but it is usually ONE (relatively) small facet of the character's metagame, as opposed to what that char's metagame REVOLVES around.


tl;dr: If the character has so many ridiculously effective options like planking/scrooging/d-air camping/etc etc that they each need to individually be addressed & rules formulated for them... that SHOULD be a hint that the sum of these parts are pretty darn broken. Either way- It should be black or white, "ban the character or let it roam free to abuse whatever it can to win and stfu" not this "iffy, wishy washy, ehhh, yeah-but," mentality.

 

[M@v]

At least Flan was honest about his knowledge. Thanks man ^_^


But most people on this boards dont play at all, yet think they are the next einstein of smash. We call this "Theorycrafting" ladies and gents, and in airsoft, its called "Chairsofting". Different sports/names, same meaning.

Just because you can't beat joe's mk at the local game store tourney doesn't mean he's broken. It also means YOU SHOULDN'T POST YOUR OPINIONS IF YOUR ONLY EXPERIENCE IS WIFI/small tourneys that aren't even sbr ruleset legit.

 

[Angel.M <3 C:]

That's because Melee had more balance between the different tiers, while Brawl has BIG gaps between Top, and Low. In Melee, it was possible to beat opponents w/ better characters w/ a low tier as long as you were better than X player.

Brawl is not the case. A Brawl ganon will NEVER take a top 3 at a national/regional tournament. The natural mechanics of his move set can be abused.

i lol'd at you comparing brawl ganon to melee ganon.

1. Brawl ganon is the worst character in the game, and melee ganon is what mid tier?

2. So you're saying mk will never be beaten by a character in c-tier or below, oh ok. lololl

 

[Allied]

omg everyone on here saying mk should be banned just quit the game then please

;_;

 

[WindMajor]

At least Flan was honest about his knowledge. Thanks man ^_^


But most people on this boards dont play at all, yet think they are the next einstein of smash. We call this "Theorycrafting" ladies and gents, and in airsoft, its called "Chairsofting". Different sports/names, same meaning.

Just because you can't beat joe's mk at the local game store tourney doesn't mean he's broken. It also means YOU SHOULDN'T POST YOUR OPINIONS IF YOUR ONLY EXPERIENCE IS WIFI/small tourneys that aren't even sbr ruleset legit.

Thank you. Theorycraft can be defined by the phrase "It's easier said than done". I was trying to find a good balance between the two while writing the post, but I'm sure someone will get at me anyways. *Puts up Hylian Shield*

 

[Angel.M <3 C:]

B. The rule won't always be enforced: I'm not sure if you guys know Excel Zero and Ling Ling from Puerto Rico, but if you have, then you've probably heard good things from them, like how they are a really good Brawl team. The reason why I'm bringing this up is because there was a situation in Pound 4 in which Team PR got planked by KSizzle+Zucco. When they reported it in to the TOs, they said that there was no planking limit. When Team PR showed the TOs the official Pound 4 ruleset, it was apparently ignored and Team PR got eliminated.

Puerto Rico left feeling cheated, and because of that event, Brawl in Puerto Rico is almost dead. Which leads me to my last argument....

I respect your post alot but about this. THE PR TEAM WAS NOT IGNORED. there was a confusing about the ruling, since VGbootcamp and plank had two different rulesets up. VGbootcamp said there were no ledge grab limits and they were the ones running the tournament so thats why the rule stood as it did.

also why couldn't they handle a lucario in 2v1 with a dedede one of lucarios worst match-ups? I'm sorry, but that makes no sense to me.

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

Creating a Circumstantial (Attacking the person) argument doesn't make his argument false.

Just take what he says into account, and use that info LOGICALLY.

And with your second and third points, for reasons to ban MK:
First of all, in ALL fighting games camping/turtle-style is the most efficient style.
Second, it takes skill to play ALL characters in the game.

Thanks for the debate lessons. I need to take that class. There are many reasons I see in the OP that I could use against ADHD, but I need to learn how to use these LOGICALLY.

Ok, so my last 2 arguments can be proven false, but my 1st is very true.

MK makes characters below high tier NONVIABLE.

 

[HoN3Y64]

brawl will die because it's players suck, that's why.

 

[iFudge]

seriously. mk is the most used-char and the most known match-up. Seriously the mk's that placed in pound 4.Are good players.
But meh this what happens when nintendo makes a game more "Family friendly" And "online".
But most likely the ppl who want mk banned. Either suck at him. or suck with him and the character they play gets owned by him.

 

[Bizkit047]

Flan is the only smart pro-ban poster in here so far that I saw.

About the ledge grab thing, yea, it's up to TOs for now. The tourney I'm hosting tomorrow is using a Planking/Stalling banned rule so I don't think it's a valid reason to ban MK, as other characters can plank just about as well (if not better?). It's the tactic in general that needs to be dealt with.

 

[CRASHiC]

MK should be banned. Reasons why?
* Limits the meta-game of every tier below high tier(even some high tiers are debatable-look @ Rob)
* Encourages the focus on 1 type of playstyle(campy, planking, timeouts)
* Over-rides natural skill, even if one player is better than the MK, the MK will most likely win.

Again, I don't think these are the reasons why Metaknight should be banned.

1. He doesn't limit. A metagame is a place in a given time in a competaive game. Metaknight doesn't make the ZSS metagame static. No, they move to work to fight him, that's progress. Now, if you remove ZSS, will ZSS's metagame develope? No, it would be something completely different because you are removing the largest factor in the current metagame. You aren't helping ZSS's metagame, you are completely changing it, for better or for worse. Some charecters are going to be worse off in a game without Metaknight, such as Falco who loses one of his most appealing features, a 50/50 matchup with the best charecter in the game. Pikachu is made worse as well, and guess who else? Donkey Kong. Now DDD players have one fewer bad matchups to worry about and can run freer.

So Metaknight doesn't limit their metagame persay, he just changes it to be centered in part around him. The question comes in how much is too much.

2. I can't say this is essentially true, but we'd have to see a game without Metaknight. Wario would be one of the best with Metaknight one according to matchups, but so would Marth, so it could go either way.

3. I don't see him overriding skill in such a way that he over takes the game at all. The tops at Pound where all top players really. Havok is a Street Fighter player and plays very much like a top Street Fighter player would at Brawl, its very smart, very effective, and very cunning taking the idea of mixups and block strings and applying them to Brawl's shield. Would you say that ADHD is miles ahead of Mew2King? Doubtful. At lower levels he might over ride skill, but not at tops surely.

Again, I think if anything, the amount of stress Metaknight puts on the community is the reason he should be considered banned.

 

[WindMajor]

I respect your post alot but about this. THE PR TEAM WAS NOT IGNORED. there was a confusing about the ruling, since VGbootcamp and plank had two different rulesets up. VGbootcamp said there were no ledge grab limits and they were the ones running the tournament so thats why the rule stood as it did.

You're right about how they weren't ignored. That was just bad storytelling on my part. But what happened DID happen, and they didn't get to play one more match. EDIT: I just read your post again. You said that VGBootcamp said that there were no ledgegrab limits? Are you sure about that? Because the rules that I linked in my big post were from VGBootcamp, and they had a limit of 50.

also why couldn't they handle a lucario in 2v1 with a dedede one of lucarios worst match-ups? I'm sorry, but that makes no sense to me.

Well apparently, they got planked. :/

Edit:

Flan is the only smart pro-ban poster in here so far that I saw.

Why thank you! However, I'm sure that I'm not the only one.

 

[Angel.M <3 C:]

You're right about how they weren't ignored. That was just bad storytelling on my part. But what happened DID happen, and they didn't get to play one more match.



Well apparently, they got planked. :/

While MK is having sex with ledge lucario should be getting ***** like crazy, so i don't see how it was a problem if anything it should be EASIER to handle the team since it was basically 2v1 til lucario/mk BOTH had 1stock. Idk all this sounds like a big john because team PR couldn't handle lucario.

don't get me wrong i love the PR team, but mk planking should've been a problem

 

[TLMSheikant]

seriously. mk is the most used-char and the most known match-up. Seriously the mk's that placed in pound 4.Are good players.
But meh this what happens when nintendo makes a game more "Family friendly" And "online".
But most likely the ppl who want mk banned. Either suck at him. or suck with him and the character they play gets owned by him.

Im a pro banner and I do not suck with MK. Or suck against him. Flan knows I dont >_>. I actually consider mk to be one of the matchups I know the best both with my TL and mk. But I still want him banned because Ive seen what meta can do to a community first hand.

 

[WindMajor]

Im a pro banner and I do not suck with MK. Or suck against him. Flan knows I dont >_>.

It's true. His MK is satanic, and he casts spells on other MKs.

While MK is having sex with ledge lucario should be getting ***** like crazy, so i don't see how it was a problem if anything it should be EASIER to handle the team since it was basically 2v1 til lucario/mk BOTH had 1stock. Idk all this sounds like a big john because team PR couldn't handle lucario.

don't get me wrong i love the PR team, but mk planking should've been a problem

I'll put up another argument when I see the match for myself. I'm just going on what I've heard from other people, but it seems like it isn't enough I guess, even though I know that both of them can definitely handle a Lucario.

 

[Angel.M <3 C:]

It's true. His MK is satanic, and he casts spells on other MKs.



I'll put up another argument when I see the match for myself. I'm just going on what I've heard from other people, but it seems like it isn't enough I guess, even though I know that both of them can definitely handle a Lucario.

I was watching the set( I'm the guy who did the twitter updates at pound) and zuccp(who was playing MK at the time) just camped the ledge and did nothing else while ksizzle fought 2v1.

and the match before this where ksizzle was mk and zucco was cario and doing the EXACT same thing except zucco was getting wrecked in the 2v1. You see where I'm getting at?

 

[The Milk Monster]

Get wrecked by ADHD Smash Community.

But for real, don't ban Meta, send some good Meta's over to STL, we need the match up exp.

 

[Yonder]

You is a smart pro player .

 

[WindMajor]

I was watching the set( I'm the guy who did the twitter updates at pound) and zuccp(who was playing MK at the time) just camped the ledge and did nothing else while ksizzle fought 2v1.

and the match before this where ksizzle was mk and zucco was cario and doing the EXACT same thing except zucco was getting wrecked in the 2v1. You see where I'm getting at?

Yeah. I still want to see the match though. :/

Get wrecked by ADHD Smash Community.

But for real, don't ban Meta, send some good Meta's over to STL, we need the match up exp.

You could just play friendlies and MMs. There's probably going to be a whole bunch of MK allowed tournaments. Remember, when the SBR makes rules, they're just recommendations. TOs decide what they want.

 

[Col. Stauffenberg]

Anyone comparing planking in a MK/Lucario team to planking in singles has no idea what they're talking about.

In doubles with Lucario the point is to create a situation where Lucario's teammate still has 3 stocks when Lucario has 1. In singles the point is to make it nigh impossible for your opponent to be able to approach you so you can time them out.

It's not the same thing at all.

 

[WindMajor]

Anyone comparing planking in a MK/Lucario team to planking in singles has no idea what they're talking about.

In doubles with Lucario the point is to create a situation where Lucario's teammate still has 3 stocks when Lucario has 1. In singles the point is to make it nigh impossible for your opponent to be able to approach you so you can time them out.

It's not the same thing at all.

Especially when the Lucario counterpicks to MK. >_>

 

[Angel.M <3 C:]

Especially when the Lucario counterpicks to MK. >_>

They just switched characters, not really a counterpick. Same strat.

 

[BSP]

I thought the banning discussion was over too, but I agree with what ADHD said.

MK invalidates less people than D3, so I think that's a moot point. Low tiers proabably shouldn't be considered anyway, because like ADHD said, they'll get knocked out by someone else.

 

[hotgarbage]

So really your post can be summarized as this: Metaknight is not broken.
This statement is absolutely true. Metaknight is NOT broken, he CAN be beaten, and anyone arguing otherwise is a fool. ...Really I thought this was common knowledge at this point. The only rational for banning him would be for reasons seen in this thread.
And really, some of the posts here are alarming, such as this:

Seriously, 70% of the PR players that went to Pound 4 for Brawl decided not to play it anymore because it wasn't worth it. Ling Ling and Excel Zero both decided not to play brawl because no matter how badly the practiced the match up, Tornado + Shuttle Loop + DSmash = Too much work for no reward.

The hype every one had for Apex was gone because, frankly, the didn't feel like paying $600.00 + ??? to get beat by MK players. Zero and Ling got planked in teams as well and when the told a judge (not sure who) that they (the other team) had 105 ledge grabs, he told them that it didn't apply for teams.

Ling: "That was a stupid call because, if planking was allowed or there wasn't a limit for ledge grabs, any one could just pick two MK's and plank until the time ran out."

He's not gonna play Brawl anymore (ling); he's going to play full melee and if he does play brawl again, he said he was going to main DiddyK.

But *sigh*.... I digress, I really have no say in this matter as I'm not even involved in the tournament scene due to health reasons. I'm just posting here because I care about the game and its community... I have played the game/frequented smashboards from day one (I'm aware that means ****) and have been greatly looking forward to the day that I could become an active participant... though for the first time I have been second guessing that. I mean, why would I join? If I play in a tournament I will be playing to win; that's simply the most fun thing to do. If I truly play to win in order to excel at a top level here are my options:
- Main MK. Reasons obvious.
- Main Diddy, Snake.... or maybe Falco. Proceed to camp my ****ing *** off.

This is just..... ugh, bleak. And it's not just the limited character diversity, it's the way the game is played at this optimum level. To have a chance in hell against MK you have to campcampcampcampcamp. MK can approach sure.... but that's risky and he can stall reaaally well, so that's his optimum strategy and he campcampcampcamps. .....is this really what I want to be playing? Super Stall Bros? Blah, the longer I watch the Brawl scene the more attractive melee becomes....

/emo rambl'n rant

 

[Ling Ling]

The thing is that we though that the 50 ledge grab rule was in play and we practically stoped playing the 2nd match. That was the match we wanted to redo.

 

[iFudge]

Dont forget wario ^. But yea that pretty much some up the metagame of brawl.

 

[Tristan_win]

You know, if they really make another public poll I would really hope they wouldn't allow non-tournament goers to vote. If someone went to the result forum, copied and paste the names of everyone who took place in a tournament even last for every tournament for the past 2-3 months we could make a list of active tournament goers. From there for the name that couldn't match up to user on smashboards you could have the tournament directors and respected members of the community to tell the organizers of this great project if so and so goes by a different name on smashboards.

Once the list is done you would make a group on smashboards and invite everyone on that list to it. After a week or two of letting everyone to join you would then open the poll to the group and see how the results turn out.

Because of wifi Brawl is played by a lot of people who don't go to tournament but post on smashboards, people who don't go out of there way and pay 10-20$ should not have a say in future tournaments.

 

[Deleted member]

It's always nice to know there are more anti-ban people out there. I get so sick of hearing about MK being broken and people complaining that he didnOt get banned all the time.

 

[etecoon]

You know, if they really make another public poll I would really hope they wouldn't allow non-tournament goers to vote. If someone went to the result forum, copied and paste the names of everyone who took place in a tournament even last for every tournament for the past 2-3 months we could make a list of active tournament goers. From there for the name that couldn't match up to user on smashboards you could have the tournament directors and respected members of the community to tell the organizers of this great project if so and so goes by a different name on smashboards.

Once the list is done you would make a group on smashboards and invite everyone on that list to it. After a week or two of letting everyone to join you would then open the poll to the group and see how the results turn out.

Because of wifi Brawl is played by a lot of people who don't go to tournament but post on smashboards, people who don't go out of there way and pay 10-20$ should not have a say in future tournaments.

I agree that people that don't go to IRL tournaments shouldn't have a say but there are a lot of people (like myself) whose forum names aren't their gamer tags, there's not a practical way to make sure such a list is accurate. and going even beyond that, the general populace shouldn't(and doesn't) have a major impact on it otherwise, because then you get sillyness like this(aib response to the same OP)

"You're Diddy, I'm Ike.

He should be gone. "

translation: I came to a gunfight with a club, pity me.

 

[TLMSheikant]

You know, if they really make another public poll I would really hope they wouldn't allow non-tournament goers to vote. If someone went to the result forum, copied and paste the names of everyone who took place in a tournament even last for every tournament for the past 2-3 months we could make a list of active tournament goers. From there for the name that couldn't match up to user on smashboards you could have the tournament directors and respected members of the community to tell the organizers of this great project if so and so goes by a different name on smashboards.

Once the list is done you would make a group on smashboards and invite everyone on that list to it. After a week or two of letting everyone to join you would then open the poll to the group and see how the results turn out.

Because of wifi Brawl is played by a lot of people who don't go to tournament but post on smashboards, people who don't go out of there way and pay 10-20$ should not have a say in future tournaments.

I agree with this.

 

[iFudge]

You know, if they really make another public poll I would really hope they wouldn't allow non-tournament goers to vote. If someone went to the result forum, copied and paste the names of everyone who took place in a tournament even last for every tournament for the past 2-3 months we could make a list of active tournament goers. From there for the name that couldn't match up to user on smashboards you could have the tournament directors and respected members of the community to tell the organizers of this great project if so and so goes by a different name on smashboards.

Once the list is done you would make a group on smashboards and invite everyone on that list to it. After a week or two of letting everyone to join you would then open the poll to the group and see how the results turn out.

Because of wifi Brawl is played by a lot of people who don't go to tournament but post on smashboards, people who don't go out of there way and pay 10-20$ should not have a say in future tournaments.

Okay some of what you said is true. But not all wifi-players are ignorant. Some of them may not be able to attend tournies cause money/car under-age.And are actually good (Like myself)players.
Edit: Always the tri-force players. ^.^

 

[WindMajor]

So really your post can be summarized as this: Metaknight is not broken.
This statement is absolutely true. Metaknight is NOT broken, he CAN be beaten, and anyone arguing otherwise is a fool. ...Really I thought this was common knowledge at this point. The only rational for banning him would be for reasons seen in this thread.
And really, some of the posts here are alarming, such as this:



But *sigh*.... I digress, I really have no say in this matter as I'm not even involved in the tournament scene due to health reasons. I'm just posting here because I care about the game and its community... I have played the game/frequented smashboards from day one (I'm aware that means ****) and have been greatly looking forward to the day that I could become an active participant... though for the first time I have been second guessing that. I mean, why would I join? If I play in a tournament I will be playing to win; that's simply the most fun thing to do. If I truly play to win in order to excel at a top level here are my options:
- Main MK. Reasons obvious.
- Main Diddy, Snake.... or maybe Falco. Proceed to camp my ****ing *** off.

This is just..... ugh, bleak. And it's not just the limited character diversity, it's the way the game is played at this optimum level. To have a chance in hell against MK you have to campcampcampcampcamp. MK can approach sure.... but that's risky and he can stall reaaally well, so that's his optimum strategy and he campcampcampcamps. .....is this really what I want to be playing? Super Stall Bros? Blah, the longer I watch the Brawl scene the more attractive melee becomes....

/emo rambl'n rant

Yup I agree. Like I said in that thread, MK isn't broken enough to ban, but he's broken enough to kill Brawl.

I don't want to ban him because he's "broken". I don't think he's unbeatable. I want to ban him because he's about to kill Brawl in my region. And that's saying a lot, because there's only 2 MK mains in PR, and they're respected MKs.

 

[link2702]

ADHD, I apologize in advance if I'm not a high seated SBR-B member, or a respectable enough smasher.

Long post ahead, and no TL;DR, sorry.

I'm not going to argue with you that Metaknight isn't beatable. I understand that he IS beatable, and it has been demonstrated by many of the good players here in Smashboards, as well as yourself.

I will argue with you however, on how Metaknight potentially breaks the competitive aspect of Brawl.

1. Metaknight will never be at a disadvantaged position: Metaknight will pretty much always have the upper hand. Metaknight's most even matchup is against himself. His second most even matchup is against Diddy, Snake, Wario, Falco, IC's, and some others I'm probably forgetting. However, from the ones I've written, it's officially 55:45 on MK's favor, according to both MK's Matchup discussion thread, and the individual character's matchup thread. In other words, both parties agree that MK has the slight advantage.

Stage wise, it is said that MK does generally well on all stages. The only way to counterpick an MK is not getting a stage that is BAD for MK, but much rather a stage that is good for X character you are using. All this really means is that you aren't making MK worse, you are just helping yourself. No other character can say this for themselves other than MK. Snake/Diddy both suffer from Rainbow Cruise since the stage scrolls and mines/bananas will scroll and disappear along with the stage.

Anyways, what I'm trying to say is that it's pretty much impossible to put MK at a disadvantaged position. The most it'll ever go is probably even, but never at a disadvantage. However, let me make myself clear though. I don't think this is a good enough argument alone to ban MK, since even at a disadvantaged position, it is STILL possible to overcome a Metaknight.

What I want to say with this argument is that what's the point of playing a game if someone will pretty much always have the upper hand? It's like playing a game of basketball in which Team A always starts with the ball, and the only way Team B can score is if they steal the ball from Team A and score a point. Winning isn't impossible, but it's really hard, and there's NOTHING you can do to make the game more even or balanced. And just like that, the competitive aspect of the game will turn to trash, everyone will just CP Metaknight to get the game even. This leads me to my second argument:

2. Metaknight is over-centralized: Actually, I'm writing a post in another tab to further detail MK's dominance in tournament attendance and results. I'll post the link later, when I finish the post.

3. Metaknight can play gayer the rest of the cast: He's probably the best and most used character to plank with that I've ever witnessed. He's virtually unstoppable when he starts to plank, and I know this not because Smashboards told me, but because I've dealt with planking MKs myself. I am fully aware that there is a way to limit planking, and that is to set a grab limit. However, there are 2 problems with setting a grab limit.

A. There is no official grab limit yet: If there is, then just correct me and I'll understand, but since there isn't, it's completely up to the TOs to add one. If they don't add a planking limit, then MK can easily abuse that limit, along with any other character (although MK is known to do it better, and more often).

B. The rule won't always be enforced: I'm not sure if you guys know Excel Zero and Ling Ling from Puerto Rico, but if you have, then you've probably heard good things from them, like how they are a really good Brawl team. The reason why I'm bringing this up is because there was a situation in Pound 4 in which Team PR got planked by KSizzle+Zucco. When they reported it in to the TOs, they said that there was no planking limit. When Team PR showed the TOs the official Pound 4 ruleset, it was apparently ignored and Team PR got eliminated.

Puerto Rico left feeling cheated, and because of that event, Brawl in Puerto Rico is almost dead. Which leads me to my last argument....

4. Metaknight will make Brawl die: Metaknight is predicted to follow the same steps as Jin Kazama in Tekken 4. Actually, I lied. It's technically not a prediction since it's already happened here in Puerto Rico. Metaknight left us with such a bad taste for Brawl that a great portion of the Brawl community here quit (By the way, the Excel Zero/Ling Ling situation isn't the only MK related issue that happened to us). It REALLY sucks though because I'm part of the small portion that still wants to play, but now there's no competition here, and if I go to the states (hopefully for Apex), my competition will probably be Metaknight.

quoted for truth.

 

[Vlade]

The fact that Metaknight is indeed beatable does not warrant a ban

It's not like he's Akuma from SF2 Turbo or anything

I understand that Metaknight is dominating the tournament scene by a long way, but I believe it's mainly the fact that his metagame is the most advanced by far thanks to the number of people playing him at a high level. It's up to the other character mains to advance their own metagames to combat Metaknight's - look at ADHD, DEHF and Ally. They know their **** about the matchup and actually bothered to spend the time and effort into learning it. I know they're top players and all but that's all part of being a good player - being able to deal with key threats in the game. It's up to YOU to learn the matchup. The only problem I see with MK and pretty much all characters is planking which can be DQ'd for since there is a rule that is enforcable.

 

[CRASHiC]

Akuma HD Remix: Beatable but banned.

http://www.eventhubs.com/guides/200...er-2-turbo-hd-remix-tiers-character-rankings/

When you see these, remember there is no 55, and what we considered 55 they consider 6-4 and what we consider 6-4 they consider 7-3 etc.