Why MK should NOT be banned (the opinion from someone who actually fights them)

[Dark 3nergy]

In Puerto Rico, Brawl is almost dead.

PR isnt a very big landmass. So finding large masses of people from all over to play Brawl would be difficult. Traveling would be expensive too. Now if you guys down there banned MK, i could see why. Your location doesnt give you many options to do anything out of state. But that doesnt necessarily mean people on larger continents are having the same issues just yet. Maybe local areas/small citys in some parts of the country, because they have similar problems as you guys. But overall, it looks like everything is fine for now.

 

[Sosuke]

This is a useless post and you should just skip it imo

You know, I like playing SSBB.

I remember when I just started posting on these forums and everyone was hyped about Brawl. Remember the "DOJO!"? Awesome. Remember just starting to pick up the game and learning about cool ATs? Great. Remember when Toon Link was high tier?
...

Anyway, it used to be pretty fun.

But now we argue about Meta Knight.
MK is bad for the community, I don't think there's any arguing about that. Regardless of what happens with the character, the community is split. Regardless of what we do, at least a third of the community will be upset. There's always going to be disagreements and insults thrown around, but oh well. There's always going to be people who quit, but oh well. It would be nice if we could just come together as a community and be cool with whatever happens. But lol @ that happening mirite. Quite frankly, I don't care what happens with Meta Knight because I don't see a good outcome either way.

MK was like, the 5th best option in Kirby Air Ride. He didn't need to be buffed THAT much for this game. =/
That's not me saying he's broken btw, random poster wanting to call me a scrub.


But yeah. I'm just an average Toon Link main. This post doesn't really help anything.

 

[o-Serin-o]

You know, I like playing SSBB.

I remember when I just started posting on these forums and everyone was hyped about Brawl. Remember the "DOJO!"? Awesome. Remember just starting to pick up the game and learning about cool ATs? Great. Remember when Toon Link was high tier?
...

Anyway, it used to be pretty fun.

But now we argue about Meta Knight.
MK is bad for the community, I don't think there's any arguing about that. Regardless of what happens with the character, the community is split. Regardless of what we do, at least a third of the community will be upset. There's always going to be disagreements and insults thrown around, but oh well. There's always going to be people who quit, but oh well. It would be nice if we could just come together as a community and be cool with whatever happens. But lol @ that happening mirite. Quite frankly, I don't care what happens with Meta Knight because I don't see a good outcome either way.

MK was like, the 5th best option in Kirby Air Ride. He didn't need to be buffed THAT much for this game. =/
That's not me saying he's broken btw, random poster wanting to call me a scrub.


But yeah. I'm just an average Toon Link main. This post doesn't really help anything.

People only listen if you have red in your name or purple.

 

[BlackSmoke]

Mmm, I looked up planking on urban dictionary, what does it mean here? I just want to make sure.
I'm a nobody, but I watch a lot of the tourney vids.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

Mmm, I looked up planking on urban dictionary, what does it mean here? I just want to make sure.
I'm a nobody, but I watch a lot of the tourney vids.

Pretty much grabbing/camping the ledge and not getting on the platform for long periods of time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phRs10GVwvg

I sat down the whole 5 mins i watched this and i counted at least 109 ledge grabs and about 35 tornados. Although my math could be off by at least 2-10 nados /grabs!

Redhalberd (2 months ago) Show Hide

Ah, Sensei Plank.

He did bring us Pound 4 though, so idk give him some slack

 

[Omni]

I listen to people who make sense.

You guys are spoiled. For most of you, this is your first competitive game that you've seen a community take seriously. Unlike Melee, Brawl has a clear "best character". In EVERY fighting game community players are always "torn" or "split" by a best character in their game i.e. Sagat/SF4. Is Sagat unhealthy for the community? No.

There are just too many countless scrubs who whine about balance and don't believe a best character should exist. They like to strive for perfect equality amongst tiers and adjust the game so that things are "fair" by nerfing the better characters and attempting to buff the weaker characters (see Brawl+).

Fun is a nice word to throw around, but when hundreds of dollars are on the line suddenly fun may leave the equation. For the 90% of you who don't place in the money this may be a hard concept for you to understand.

 

[Shaya]

Prove MK grabbing the ledge/planking is within the current competitive definition of stalling, and then we can objectively limit him. But Ledge Grab Limits seem to really have done nothing at the top level except give Falco a more winnable match up with MK.

I'm a bit of a mixed bunch on MK either way though. If Diddy and Snake do have definitive even match ups, or even slight advantages, until they are as common in tournaments to signify that, the competitive game has noticable issues. Mostly that there is probably a really "well balanced" and LARGE Top/High Tier in this game if MK is not involved. Most of the current top tiers have close to even match ups with each other. Most of A tier have close to even match ups with eachother and top tier bar MK, except having one or two "hard" match ups. But honestly, that would have just been great luck if the game turned out like that, which at the moment, it didn't, can we change that? Yes. Should we? Maybe.

 

[BlackSmoke]

Pretty much grabbing/camping the ledge and not getting on the platform for long periods of time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phRs10GVwvg

I sat down the whole 5 mins i watched this and i counted at least 109 ledge grabs and about 35 tornados. Although my math could be off by at least 2-10 nados /grabs!

Ah, alright thanks. Well if you're playing to win money, can we really blame a player for planking?

 

[Kasht]

PR isnt a very big landmass. So finding large masses of people from all over to play Brawl would be difficult.

This point is irrelevant, our Smash community has 500+ people all over the island. We have more people that play Brawl per square mile than any other state in the US, so the concentration of people and what everybody has been exposed to in Brawl (and other fighting games) is high. That's why we have top gamers in not only Brawl, but SF4, Tekken, and other fighters as well.

Traveling would be expensive too.

Traveling IS expensive for us, yet we try to always bring a couple people to major tournaments (FAST1, Genesis, Pound 4).

Now if you guys down there banned MK, i could see why. Your location doesnt give you many options to do anything out of state.

True, yet we manage to bring 20 people to Pound 4, which is 10% of all the people who entered Brawl singles, and definitely more than most states in the US that are not in the EC. But nobody sees that...

But that doesnt necessarily mean people on larger continents are having the same issues just yet. Maybe local areas/small citys in some parts of the country, because they have similar problems as you guys. But overall, it looks like everything is fine for now.

For now yes, my concern, and other people's as well, is the longevity of Brawl as a competitive game due to people losing interest because of the Meta Knight factor. Japan is famous for been a great competitive gaming community for fighting games, and there are several times where they have soft-banned characters from tournament play to keep the competition alive.

I am not directly affected by any decisions made, I don't play any Smash games. I just manage the Puerto Rico gamer community and all the competitive aspects. I have been doing this for over 10 years and have been in the competitive scene for even longer.

Only time will tell...

 

[Sosuke]

Ah, alright thanks. Well if you're playing to win money, can we really blame a player for planking?

Why are you playing to win money? Get a job.

 

[Kasht]

For the 90% of you who don't place in the money this may be a hard concept for you to understand.

It is this people's money who is going to the pockets of the top placers. Once these people stop showing up to tournaments, unless the tournament has a sponsorship of some sort, there will be no money for these top players. And then, byebye Brawl!

 

[o-Serin-o]

Who needs a job when you are good at a game that pays?

 

[BlackSmoke]

Why are you playing to win money? Get a job.

It's part of the whole tourney experience.
Everyone can agree that winning money can be fun no?
So you're still playing for fun with money on the line.

 

[Jack Kieser]

It is this people's money who is going to the pockets of the top placers. Once these people stop showing up to tournaments, unless the tournament has a sponsorship of some sort, there will be no money for these top players. And then, byebye Brawl!

I think this is what people are failing to realize. Kewkky's excellent thread on the history of the Tekken 4 community, I think, is warning enough here, but the top money-makers and the ADHD's that will always say "just become uber-leet pro like me and stop sucking at the game" don't realize that you can't talk to the people who pay you like that.

You can't have a community of only pro players; there will NEVER be enough of them to be self-sufficient. If all of your community policies are to the detriment of the actual community, the competitive portion of the game can't survive. I keep hearing people like Panda say "Attendance is up!", but I'm willing to bet that most of you (and don't take this personally) red or purple named people only hang out with each other at tourneys. Maybe if you took a sec to stop being so uber-pro and looked around or talked to non-pro / mid-level players, you'd hear just how many of them are quitting the game due to Metaknight BS and the general apathy of higher-level players towards them.

I know you're not really going to want to hear this, and most of you are probably going to be like, "WTF, Jack. GTFO." for this, but you know who else had the position of "it's getting better, and it will never stop?" Our bankers. I'm sure you all know how that turned out for them. And you. Seriously, we have historical evidence in the real world and in our field of competitive gaming to show us what will happen if we don't pay attention and get overconfident about our own stability. It's obvious how divisive the issue is. It's obvious (to those of use who actually pay attention to the masses of people feeding the pot) that something will need to be done at some point. I love Brawl (I love BBrawl more than vBrawl, but I love vBrawl a lot, too). I don't want to ever stop hosting tournaments. I'm going to host more con tournaments this Spring and (when I transfer to UW in the Fall) will make more tournament venues in the Fall. I am seriously worried for our future if this keeps up.

 

[WindMajor]

I think this is what people are failing to realize. Kewkky's excellent thread on the history of the Tekken 4 community, I think, is warning enough here, but the top money-makers and the ADHD's that will always say "just become uber-leet pro like me and stop sucking at the game" don't realize that you can't talk to the people who pay you like that.

You can't have a community of only pro players; there will NEVER be enough of them to be self-sufficient. If all of your community policies are to the detriment of the actual community, the competitive portion of the game can't survive. I keep hearing people like Panda say "Attendance is up!", but I'm willing to bet that most of you (and don't take this personally) red or purple named people only hang out with each other at tourneys. Maybe if you took a sec to stop being so uber-pro and looked around or talked to non-pro / mid-level players, you'd hear just how many of them are quitting the game due to Metaknight BS and the general apathy of higher-level players towards them.

I know you're not really going to want to hear this, and most of you are probably going to be like, "WTF, Jack. GTFO." for this, but you know who else had the position of "it's getting better, and it will never stop?" Our bankers. I'm sure you all know how that turned out for them. And you. Seriously, we have historical evidence in the real world and in our field of competitive gaming to show us what will happen if we don't pay attention and get overconfident about our own stability. It's obvious how divisive the issue is. It's obvious (to those of use who actually pay attention to the masses of people feeding the pot) that something will need to be done at some point. I love Brawl (I love BBrawl more than vBrawl, but I love vBrawl a lot, too). I don't want to ever stop hosting tournaments. I'm going to host more con tournaments this Spring and (when I transfer to UW in the Fall) will make more tournament venues in the Fall. I am seriously worried for our future if this keeps up.

Good post. History repeats itself, and we have to be careful and pinpoint problems early on and deal with them, before it's too late.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

This point is irrelevant, our Smash community has 500+ people all over the island. We have more people that play Brawl per square mile than any other state in the US, so the concentration of people and what everybody has been exposed to in Brawl (and other fighting games) is high. That's why we have top gamers in not only Brawl, but SF4, Tekken, and other fighters as well.


Traveling IS expensive for us, yet we try to always bring a couple people to major tournaments (FAST1, Genesis, Pound 4).


True, yet we manage to bring 20 people to Pound 4, which is 10% of all the people who entered Brawl singles, and definitely more than most states in the US that are not in the EC. But nobody sees that...


For now yes, my concern, and other people's as well, is the longevity of Brawl as a competitive game due to people losing interest because of the Meta Knight factor. Japan is famous for been a great competitive gaming community for fighting games, and there are several times where they have soft-banned characters from tournament play to keep the competition alive.

I am not directly affected by any decisions made, I don't play any Smash games. I just manage the Puerto Rico gamer community and all the competitive aspects. I have been doing this for over 10 years and have been in the competitive scene for even longer.

Only time will tell...

I saw some of your people on the streams at bigger US tournies. Very impressive stuff.


I kinda beg to differ on your point of view about PR and its population relative to smashers. And thats because its a pretty isolated place. To be frank, its an opinion of mind i cant really take anywhere because I dont live in a place like PR.

I think recognition of PR will come through the more exposure and experience from those who travel to get it. I wouldnt worry so much about recognition. Just if they did super awesomely well when and where it counts.


We as a nation of english go getters and speakers do not hold any real sort of "proud or honorable" foundations such as the Japanese have for many centuries. So this notion of soft-banning is really something we couldn't seriously debate as the point is rather moot in the eyes of several members here. I do admire the Japanese for soft-banning though.

Then as the manager of such a community you should definitely keep in tuned with your communities needs. No one here can tell you what to do for your little island paradise, only you guys should be the judge of that.

Ah, alright thanks. Well if you're playing to win money, can we really blame a player for planking?

See the thing is its sort of evolved beyond that; such as Scrooging and even timing the player out using pretty patient/campy methods. Can we blame them for doing such methods? We cannot really, because Brawl is a game designed where Defense has more options then offense.

 

[xDD-Master]

I listen to people who make sense.

You guys are spoiled. For most of you, this is your first competitive game that you've seen a community take seriously. Unlike Melee, Brawl has a clear "best character". In EVERY fighting game community players are always "torn" or "split" by a best character in their game i.e. Sagat/SF4. Is Sagat unhealthy for the community? No.

There are just too many countless scrubs who whine about balance and don't believe a best character should exist. They like to strive for perfect equality amongst tiers and adjust the game so that things are "fair" by nerfing the better characters and attempting to buff the weaker characters (see Brawl+).

Fun is a nice word to throw around, but when hundreds of dollars are on the line suddenly fun may leave the equation. For the 90% of you who don't place in the money this may be a hard concept for you to understand.

So all you say in your post, is a prove that good players need MK to win

, so that is a reason to ban him, it should be the player skill and not the character-brokeness which decides the winner.

If MK would be banned, all the MKs could choose between Snake, Diddy, Wario, Marth, maybe even other Characters, at the moment its more or less a choose of which characters can compete against MK and that are mostly Snake, Diddy and Falco, sadly those characters have other characters which makes them a hard life, MK on the other side, always has at least an even battle and is good on like... every stage? Well, he has worse stages than other, but not that he is bad on a stage, he just isnt broken on them like on some others. And in the case your skill isnt enough to beat your oppenant (Snake, Diddy and Falco) you can still just get the first % and Camp/Plank/Spam B correctly to win the match, which is more about patience than skill... Snake, Diddy and Falco are also good characters, but can they do such worse things? MK is not only the best character, he also is the most gay one, I wouldnt care if Ganondorf would be the best planker, because he sucks anyway, he will never get the first % if you arent a blind and armless player, but that isnt the case.

I dont see how you can defend MK, dont you see all the impact he does to the community?

Just think ADHD wouldnt have gone to Pound 4 LOL, Top 10 full of MKs and 1 Snake, the winner would be an MK. So now, all you anti-banners do is count on that ONE person.

There are already rules to keep MK, but werent the anti-banners the people who mostly said: "Ban a character or not, dont do things in between" <- That already happened...

 

[Big-Cat]

Before I start, I just want to say that I have never been able to go to tournaments for various reasons. What I say might be considered ignorant, flawed, or whatever.

We as a nation of english go getters and speakers do not hold any real sort of "proud or honorable" foundations such as the Japanese have for many centuries. So this notion of soft-banning is really something we couldn't seriously debate as the point is rather moot in the eyes of several members here. I do admire the Japanese for soft-banning though.

We seem to have some sort "proud or honorable" thing going since we have had to limit edge-grabs, ban tactics, etc. From what I've heard, the Japanese don't bother with that kind of stuff. They are completely ruthless in the fighting game realm, or so I've heard.

All in all, a temporary soft-ban for Meta Knight might not be a bad idea. Keep him that way for a few months and see how the metagame develops. If the metagame is improving as a result, then hard-ban him in the name of preserving the game.

 

[Kasht]

I saw some of your people on the streams at bigger US tournies. Very impressive stuff.


I kinda beg to differ on your point of view about PR and its population relative to smashers. And thats because its a pretty isolated place. To be frank, its an opinion of mind i cant really take anywhere because I dont live in a place like PR.

I think recognition of PR will come through the more exposure and experience from those who travel to get it. I wouldnt worry so much about recognition. Just if they did super awesomely well when and where it counts.


We as a nation of english go getters and speakers do not hold any real sort of "proud or honorable" foundations such as the Japanese have for many centuries. So this notion of soft-banning is really something we couldn't seriously debate as the point is rather moot in the eyes of several members here. I do admire the Japanese for soft-banning though.

Then as the manager of such a community you should definitely keep in tuned with your communities needs. No one here can tell you what to do for your little island paradise, only you guys should be the judge of that.

I appreciate posts like this (respectful & intelligent)!!! Thanks a lot! I have worked with people like vvv-Scrub (PR Balrog) in SF4 to get him to EVO, NEC, Season Beatings, etc. Have done the same for other players in the Tekken community. We have a lot of good players in PR, but most people don't have the money and resources to travel and get the exposure.

At this point we are debating how we will pursue this situation in the island. Most people in PR are inclined to switch to Melee, which I'm fine with, we have really good players there as well. Others are proposing several ways to deal with the MK stuff, some of them really interesting.

Anyhow, the mentallity of most people in PR has been to prove they are the best with X character, whether is Peach, DDD, Kirby, Sheik. We have some that have already gotten recognition for this, and did not make it out of the pools at Pound 4. So what is left now is winning! Therefore, IF we decide to attend another major tournament for Brawl in the future, people shouldn't be surprised if they see ALL 20 Puerto Rican players using Meta Knight in tournament!

Kasht

 

[HoN3Y64]

wtf, you have to be dumb to allow planking

 

[GreenFox]

Ok then ban diddy

 

[Sosuke]

Who needs a job when you are good at a game that pays?

Because jobs pay a lot more? o_O

 

[Asdioh]

Why go time out people and plank with MK in tournaments when you can just go donate plasma or something? It will be a lot less painful.


just saying.


And I must say that I have been planning to attend VGbootcamp Indianapolis in February, but now after Pound4 I'm kind of afraid of being gayed by countless halfassed MK players, and if something like that does happen I really may quit the game, which is not something I intended to do anytime soon.

 

[.Marik]

Why go time out people and plank with MK in tournaments when you can just go donate plasma or something? It will be a lot less painful.


just saying.


And I must say that I have been planning to attend VGbootcamp Indianapolis in February, but now after Pound4 I'm kind of afraid of being gayed by countless halfassed MK players, and if something like that does happen I really may quit the game, which is not something I intended to do anytime soon.

It's vBrawl, there's going to be campy, planking Meta Knights everywhere.

Just learn the matchup and play better than them. Simple as that.

 

[Limeee]

metaknight w/o planking is fair

bonerknight with planking is unfair and ruins the game.
look at the brawl and tekken 4 thread, thats just what might happen

and anti bans, don't pretend that all of us don't know the matchup, thats pretty hypocritical

 

[Turbo Ether]

Another 2 Years from now (assuming Brawl is still played)
























Dude, just learn the matchup. Learn2Play.

 

[Karcist]

It's not true. The majority of the brawl community are metaknight mains. If you dispatch them their character, they will either a) quit, or b) flock to another character and get frustrated trying to catch up with the current metagame. We'll have lost a ton of people.

The fact that the majority are metaknight mains just shows that the game is over centralized around him. If most MK mains quit if MK was banned then that would just show that the competitive scene of brawl was lost to begin with. I can't think of any reason someone can't just simply learn another character.

 

[Toneh]

adhd ftw

Wait, who?

lol u should play nairo again to even the record

 

[.Marik]

Brawl+.

Learn about it.

 

[Kasht]

The fact that the majority are metaknight mains just shows that the game is over centralized around him.

This is the ISSUE!!! This wouldn't have happened if the correct action had been taken when they were first brought up last year.

Now a year later, we are stuck with this situation, which is what I have tried to point out over and over again.

How would people feel if everybody in Melee played Jigglypuff? Well, I think everybody knows the answer to that, and whoever went to Pound 4 knows that the Mango/HBox finals only had a few people watching it. The rest were watching other (non-tournament) matches on the other projector screens.

Luckily, people haven't done that. But just think about it, 80% of players in Melee using Jigglypuff in Melee tournaments. That would be the most boring tournament ever!

Well, this is exactly what happened with Brawl and Meta Knight!

Welcome to Super Smash Bros. META KNIGHT!

 

[Jack Kieser]

Oh, Christ... ENOUGH OF LEARN2PLAY!!! I'm sick and tired of hearing this uneducated drivel! What in the great blue hell do you people think we've been doing for 2 years? Playing, learning matchups, and practicing, just as you have. The fact of the matter is that 99% of people will not be able to do what Ally or ADHD or any other random pro player can do because no amount of study or practice can make up for inherent skill.

This is what is so frustrating about all of this. ADHD's post didn't bring anything new to the table. It wasn't eloquent or well written. It didn't prove anything significant. The only thing ADHD's post showed us was that ADHD is an a**hole. That's it. Anyone who has the balls to turn to the majority of average people, people with lives, jobs, families, and people who just flat out aren't as inherently skilled, and actually say to them "just stop sucking and be as awesome as me" doesn't deserve to be able to post. Flat out.

It shows that he (and the people like him) have no practical understanding of the way the real world works. Maybe the people in Haiti should just live better and not let some noob earthquake take them out; they should be as leet as us Americans and Learn2Live better. Forget that they don't have the resources like us, the infrastructure like us, the organization like us. Forget that they are inherently handicapped because of where they live; they should just do better, as if it's that easy.

TO's: we need to stand up to these people. We're letting these "pros" dictate our tournament rules to us, as if they're the backbone of the community. Let me tell you guys something: if all our "pros" just leave tomorrow, new ones (maybe not better ones, but new ones all the same) will rise up to take their place. If we let the community leave, though... there will be no one left to come to our tournaments and pad our pots. The pros will lose their money, and we'll lose our game. Stop letting people like ADHD talk like they know how sh*t works when they clearly have no practical understanding of the situation beyond their own personal bubble of high-level play and big money.

Play2Win is all great, but just like anything else, you have to know when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em. 90% of the time, it's a good thing... but sometimes it's a detriment, and this is one of those times. Yeah, ADHD and his ilk may call us "scrubs" for wanting to protect the integrity and stability of our game so that we don't have a "Brawling Bubble" that bursts in 2012 and kills off the game... but screw that. I'm more interested in keeping the game alive long term.

 

[.Marik]

Oh shit.

Jack Kieser just jocked on us. Hard.

That was well written, actually.

 

[Karcist]

This is the ISSUE!!! This wouldn't have happened if the correct action had been taken when they were first brought up last year.

Now a year later, we are stuck with this situation, which is what I have tried to point out over and over again.

How would people feel if everybody in Melee played Jigglypuff? Well, I think everybody knows the answer to that, and whoever went to Pound 4 knows that the Mango/HBox finals only had a few people watching it. The rest were watching other (non-tournament) matches on the other projector screens.

Luckily, people haven't done that. But just think about it, 80% of players in Melee using Jigglypuff in Melee tournaments. That would be the most boring tournament ever!

Well, this is exactly what happened with Brawl and Meta Knight!

Welcome to Super Smash Bros. META KNIGHT!

Exactly, I think that there wouldn't be this problem of MK mains quitting if he was banned much earlier.

 

[Kasht]

TO's: we need to stand up to these people. We're letting these "pros" dictate our tournament rules to us, as if they're the backbone of the community. Let me tell you guys something: if all our "pros" just leave tomorrow, new ones (maybe not better ones, but new ones all the same) will rise up to take their place. If we let the community leave, though... there will be no one left to come to our tournaments and pad our pots. The pros will lose their money, and we'll lose our game. Stop letting people like ADHD talk like they know how sh*t works when they clearly have no practical understanding of the situation beyond their own personal bubble of high-level play and big money.

Why is this guy not running sh*t here at SWF?

Unfortunately, I have no idea on what goes on the SBR, as it seems only selected "pros" have access to it. And yet people dare to say that the statements coming out of the SBR are 100% unbiased. YEAH, RIGHT!!!

I am doing some changes to the way Brawl is ran in Puerto Rico to make it enjoyable and competitive at the same time. Forget SWF ruleset, tierlists, etc... We are going to do things a little bit differently here for the sake of the game.

I can only wish Good Luck to the rest of the people running Brawl tournaments in the future. Hope all goes well...

 

[HoN3Y64]

This is the ISSUE!!! This wouldn't have happened if the correct action had been taken when they were first brought up last year.

Now a year later, we are stuck with this situation, which is what I have tried to point out over and over again.

How would people feel if everybody in Melee played Jigglypuff? Well, I think everybody knows the answer to that, and whoever went to Pound 4 knows that the Mango/HBox finals only had a few people watching it. The rest were watching other (non-tournament) matches on the other projector screens.

Luckily, people haven't done that. But just think about it, 80% of players in Melee using Jigglypuff in Melee tournaments. That would be the most boring tournament ever!

Well, this is exactly what happened with Brawl and Meta Knight!

Welcome to Super Smash Bros. META KNIGHT!

jiggs has won tournaments for 2 years, everyone is still using fox/falco/peach/marth/sheik. brawl has been out for almost 2 years and quite a few people are using mk from near the start. don't make stupid assumptions. regardless, mk shouldn't be banned, he's not gamebreaking.

 

[Kasht]

jiggs has won tournaments for 2 years, everyone is still using fox/falco/peach/marth/sheik. brawl has been out for almost 2 years and quite a few people are using mk from near the start. don't make stupid assumptions. regardless, mk shouldn't be banned, he's not gamebreaking.

Learn how to read!!! It was a hypothetical example, for people to IMAGINE that happening with Melee!!! Not that it will happen, but for people to IMAGINE how the competitive scene would be if 80% of people used Jigglypuff!!!

That's why I said in my post "Luckily, it hasn't happened yet."

Kasht

 

[Flynch]

The fact of the matter is that 99% of people will not be able to do what Ally or ADHD or any other random pro player can do because no amount of study or practice can make up for inherent skill.

Almost anyone could beat Ally or ADHD if they tried hard enough. Don't limit yourself with fake restrictions or blaming their inherent skill. All players started the same as you.

On topic - MK should NOT be banned. ADHD (grats btw!!) successfully proved himself in this matchup, the rest of us should strive for the same.

 

[theunabletable]

This is what is so frustrating about all of this. ADHD's post didn't bring anything new to the table. It wasn't eloquent or well written. It didn't prove anything significant. The only thing ADHD's post showed us was that ADHD is an a**hole. That's it. Anyone who has the balls to turn to the majority of average people, people with lives, jobs, families, and people who just flat out aren't as inherently skilled, and actually say to them "just stop sucking and be as awesome as me" doesn't deserve to be able to post. Flat out.

It shows if you are skilled enough you can beat a great MK. If you're not skilled, you won't win. L2P, stop whining, or quit

It can be done if you are skilled. If you're not skilled enough, THEN STOP *****ING ABOUT IT.

It's not unfair at all. Do you see inferior Football teams complain about how their opponents team was inherently better? Do they constantly ***** and moan about how better teams and/or better strategies should be banned so that they can make up for their lack of skill? No, they take their loses and either try and get better, or stop playing.

MK can be beaten if you are skilled. It's been done MANY times in the past including Pound 4 where the BEST MK IN THE WORLD got 3-0'd by a Diddy in GFs.

It isn't my fault or MK players fault that you aren't as skilled as ADHD and can't beat M2K.

 

[Jack Kieser]

Almost anyone could beat Ally or ADHD if they tried hard enough. Don't limit yourself with fake restrictions or blaming their inherent skill. All players started the same as you.

On topic - MK should NOT be banned. ADHD (grats btw!!) successfully proved himself in this matchup, the rest of us should strive for the same.

Ok, so maybe you can dunk like Micheal Jordan. Or Shoot like Gretzky. Or run like Johnson. I'm sorry, but sometimes people are built differently than others. I can tell you right now, 50% of the reason I can't do well in competitive games is because I can't move my hands that fast. Or think that fast. Physical and mental limitations do exist in the real world, and this idealized "we're all equal and no one is better than anyone else" thinking only shows that you don't understand how actual competition works. Hard work can and will only get you so far. It's not me putting a limitation on myself, it's nature and reality putting a limitation on me. I'd like to see you remember PI to the 1,365th digit like Rain Man, something only he can do because of his Autism (and savants do exist in medicine, btw).

 

[theunabletable]

^If you can't compete with the people who are naturally good, then keep trying, give up, or stop complaining.

Complaining about the people who are naturally better than you doesn't achieve anything.