Why MK should NOT be banned (the opinion from someone who actually fights them)

[demonictoonlink]

LOL one guy comes in and gives a totally ANECDOTAL reason why MK should not be banned, and everyone ****s the bed.

ROFL

Sorry, but ADHD's opinion means NOTHING to me compared to the hard evidence that MK needs to go.

I commend you ADHD. If people take your word for it, you'll have killed the game. No really, that's an impressive accomplishment.

Hard evidence?

You got this.

 

[Allied]

LOL one guy comes in and gives a totally ANECDOTAL reason why MK should not be banned, and everyone ****s the bed.

ROFL

Sorry, but ADHD's opinion means NOTHING to me compared to the hard evidence that MK needs to go.

I commend you ADHD. If people take your word for it, you'll have killed the game. No really, that's an impressive accomplishment.

lol hard evidence are you talking about chibos video or something

if so thats pretty lol worthy

 

[ErikG]

Sorry, but ADHD's opinion means NOTHING to me compared to the hard evidence that MK needs to go.

There is an ironic lack of hard evidence.

 

[RATED]

lol One Guy Comes In And Gives A Totally Anecdotal Reason Why Mk Should Not Be Banned, And Everyone ****s The Bed.

Rofl

Sorry, But Adhd's Opinion Means Nothing To Me Compared To The Hard Evidence That Mk Needs To Go.

I Commend You Adhd. If People Take Your Word For It, You'll Have Killed The Game. No Really, That's An Impressive Accomplishment.

* High Fives* to this post.

=================================

edit: EricG : Hard evidence? have u seen the results of Pound 4 ? the zucco's team against Excelzero / Lingling team ? that they planked so hard in TEAMS and they won by it. and there's a lot of stuff like that. but I think that's enough.

 

[Nø Ca$h]

if ppl dont like air camping, planking and scrooging then stop playing brawl and switch to melee

ITS BRAWL, NOT MK. STOP BLAMING MK FOR BRAWL SUCKING. its the game mechanics not the characters fault.

its to the point where u need to play gay. theese playstyles are ATs in the same essence as WDing or LCing

 

[teluoborg]

You obviously dont know 90% of the smash community

Check any MK related thread and 90% of the people think he is broken and that doesn't make sense that since hes the most effective character people want him banned

People didnt ban SF4 sagat even tho hes the most effective tournament winner
People didn't ban SF3 3rd strike Makoto or Chun even tho they are the most effective


People think hes broken
People want him banned
Is he broke though? No people just don't try hard enough

P.S try picking up metaknight and coming to a tournament around here I picked up snake easier than i picked up metaknight hes pretty hard to use effienctly in tournament its not an easy learning curve either

Never said that it made sense. I know MK isn't banworthy.
Just that for what you train a MK will train less and have about the same results. [color=1f1f]inb4crymoar[/color]

 

[Allied]

its not even so much as a brawl sucking i think people are trying way to hard to compare melee to brawl

its a completely different game imo i think thats why people are mad when you can't combo or its not as faced pace

 

[stingers]

adhd only wants MK legal because it's the only thing stopping every ROB and his mother from ****** him in tourney.

 

[Allied]

Never said that it made sense. I know MK isn't banworthy.
Just that for what you train a MK will train less and have about the same results. [color=1f1f]inb4crymoar[/color]

lol ok come try that in east coast bro haha the only results for people that pick up MK in like a small period of time then expect to place well in tournament they will prolly just place last or second to last

Nice try though :]

edit: stingers you dumb trash posting fool stop being a f*cking idiot

 

[SuperScizor]

I agree completely. I don't see how MK is overpowered- he's strong, but nowhere close to OP.

 

[ADHD]

* High Fives* to this post.

=================================

edit: EricG : Hard evidence? have u seen the results of Pound 4 ? the zucco's team against Excelzero / Lingling team ? that they planked so hard in TEAMS and they won by it. and there's a lot of stuff like that. but I think that's enough.

Dude that's the strat rofl. If it was marth planking the ledge it wouldn't have made a difference.

 

[Karcist]

The issue is that it's slowly killing off the competitive scene, not whether it's possible to beat him.

 

[stingers]

edit: stingers you dumb trash posting fool stop being a f*cking idiot

woah there buddy, calm down. adhd knows im just messing. get off his **** please

 

[Allied]

No its not karcist where did you get that information from please i want to see some statistics and lets see you prove what you are saying

But i'm not going to let you even try because that isn't true at all

There are 2-3 brawl tournaments going on EVERY weekend at close to every region not even to mention melee

edit: stingers you wonder why people hate you its because your a fool lol especially from what i learned about you from pound4 your just gutter trash to me now

 

[Nø Ca$h]

im really, really, really glad swf is an oligarchy and not a democracy.

 

[Jim Morrison]

i like playing as mk so he shudnt be banned

 

[GimR]

The main problem with MK in my opinion is his Tornado. This move makers certain match ups that could be winnable absolutely not winnable.

Take Vex's Bowser vs Ally's MK for example.

Ally didn't tornado once and almost got JV two stocked.

Should MK be banned though because of this? no, it's just not enough.

 

[ADHD]

The issue is that it's slowly killing off the competitive scene, not whether it's possible to beat him.

It's not true. The majority of the brawl community are metaknight mains. If you dispatch them their character, they will either a) quit, or b) flock to another character and get frustrated trying to catch up with the current metagame. We'll have lost a ton of people.

 

[DanGR]

It's not true. The majority of the brawl community are metaknight mains. If you dispatch them their character, they will either a) quit, or b) flock to another character and get frustrated trying to catch up with the current metagame. We'll have lost a ton of people.

You could say the same thing about any community with any popular character. Doesn't make it any less right, though.

It's only going to get more difficult to ban him later on, which is why MANY people wanted to do it a while ago.

 

[zeldspazz]

The issue is that it's slowly killing off the competitive scene, not whether it's possible to beat him.

No its not. Where the **** are people getting this from. Tourney attendance is good right now its not being killed off.

 

[ADHD]

You could say the same thing about any community with any popular character. Doesn't make it any less right, though.

no u mr. i probably played sheik in melee and made people cry!

 

[Bizkit047]

Is it just me, or do the majority of pro-ban posts seem almost completely idiotic, wrong, or just plain stupid?

 

[Angel.M <3 C:]

You guys try to find any little excuse to ban mk. If scrooging/stalling is a problem fix the rules for it.

If you are complaining about the top 10 spots of mk, I'm sorry more top mk players came to this then other character reps. lolol At any other tournament that has like 2mk's you shut up, but then one comes with more then usual and you all ape****. ALSO NOTICE TOP 5 IS THE NY/NJ REGION WE GET THAT SAME TOP 5 AT OUR LOCALS THAT JUST SHOWS HOW MUCH YOU NEED TO GET BETTER THEN NY/NJ.

oh and to the PR team who lost to zucco/ksizzle I'm sorry you couldn't handle a 2v1 vs lucario with a DEDEDE on your team. With mk just planking that means lucario should be getting *** *****. Jesus.

 

[Atomsk_92]

Is it just me, or do the majority of pro-ban posts seem almost completely idiotic, wrong, or just plain stupid?

THIS


AND I'VE NEVER HEARD OF HALF OF THEM.




lol

 

[DAlegendarysamus]

I thought I should give my views on this situation now, because I have a little more power at the moment with the Pound 4 victory.

First off, the set record from the start:

3-3 with mew2king
2-0 with havok
10-0 with ksizzle
0-1 with tyrant (barely lost 1-2 at genesis and will get him later)
2-0 with anti's metaknight
1-0 with judge
1-0 with dojo in MM
2-1 vs atomsk's metaknight
5-1 with inui
approximately even with shadow, too many sets to remember but I have a slight lead by about 3 sets
3-0 with dmbrandon
2-0 with dphat
2-0 with doom
1-0 with seibrik, 0-1 with him in MM's

As you can see, I'm pretty solid against metaknight. I know this matchup like the back of my hand. The only full loss is with tyrant, in which the set was quite close game 3 and I feel I have improved alot since genesis. No, diddy does not beat mk, it is 50-50 and DEAD EVEN.



So scream in agony that he has unfair terrain advantage with the current stage list, and I will say that is utter laziness. I have diligently beaten multiple of these metaknights on their counterpicks.

Metaknights (in tourney or MM's) in which I have beaten on "unfair" stages.

mew2king-rainbow cruise several times now.
havok-delfino twice.
ksizzle-rainbow cruise several times, delfino, frigate.
anti's metaknight-delfino.
judge-brinstar.
dojo-delfino.
atomsk's metaknight-rainbow cruise twice, frigate.
inui-rainbow cruise several times, brinstar.
shadow-brinstar, rainbow cruise, delfino, frigate.
dmbrandon-castle seige, frigate, brinstar.
dphat-rainbow cruise.
doom-delfino, frigate.

With proper knowledge and training on these stages, I've manage to accomplish this. You can do the same as well.



The characters that all are viable to beat him are those with fairly even matchups, and it's not a shocker that metaknight's 50-50's are with other top tiers: snake, diddy kong, ice climbers, and with a slight advantage wario and falco. All of the above characters can accomplish my current record with shere effort and outskilling the metaknight user.

Insert X character that gets obliterated by metaknight, will merely be taken out by other DDDs, snakes, falcos, diddy kongs, ice climbers, etc. without mk's existance. It is pointless to vote for the ban if this is your reasoning.


So what is it smash community--laziness, the inability to cope for losses, or the desire for an easier victory? The only legitimate issue I can see with metaknight is a simple rule adjustment--air-time and scrooging. Otherwise, he should remain competitively viable. Many of my wins are from people who DO know the matchup, so do not claim they lost due to ignorance of my character.

]



ITS ALWAYS THE PEOPLE WHO ARE WINNING AT 1ST THAT DOESNT WANT HIM TO BE BANNED LOL. YOUR GOING TO REGRET IT IN THE FUTURE WHEN YOU GET UR **** PUSHED IN ONCE PEOPLE FIGURE OUT HOW TO FIGHT DIDDY AND EVERY MK GETS BETTER AND THATS WHATS HAPPENING AS WE SPEAK I CAN HEAR THE MILLIONS OF SHUTTLE LOOPS NOW!!! But oh well you will learn the hard way.

 

[M@v]

(This isnt directed towards you Wyatt)


This debate was settled with the last vote.


STOP

BEATING

THE

DEAD

HORSE

Also:

THIS

AND I'VE NEVER HEARD OF HALF OF THEM.

lol

Quoted for massive truth.

 

[ADHD]

(This isnt directed towards you Wyatt)


This debate was settled with the last vote.


STOP

BEATING

THE

DEAD

HORSE

It's popping up again by the end of this week or something. Another poll will be soon so I wrote this up before it happens.

 

[skabs]

While I do not believe that Metaknight is necessarily broken, I do believe that his presence warps the game a great deal. As ADHD pointed out, a great deal of the smash community has Meta as one of their mains, and this simple fact shows how much impact this character has on the game. One cannot be successful in the competitive Brawl scene without putting a great deal of work into learning how to play against a competent Metaknight.

Is Metaknight the defining character of Brawl? Without a doubt, yes.

Is Metaknight the best character in Brawl? Of course he is!

Are these points enough to ban him... I don't think so. Though difficult it is to fight Metaknight, I do not think that any character can be banned unless they make winning IMPOSSIBLE (and it appears that some of the more influential members of the community agree the idea that impossibility warrents a ban, as some moves that make winning impossible are in fact banned, see DDD's standing infinites, which some regions choose to ban, and Meta's cape glitch). While Meta is indeed a difficult character to play against, he is not impossible to beat with any character (yes, even Gannon can get lucky, lol). As such, I cannot condone him being banned.

Just one man's opinion...

 

[M@v]

It's popping up again by the end of this week or something. Another poll will be soon so I wrote this up before it happens.

And its going to be the same results, about 52% mk ban favored, and the sbr is going to say no....again(sorry, guess you guys will actually have to learn the matchup)


I feel like I'm in Groundhog day.

 

[CRASHiC]

if ppl dont like air camping, planking and scrooging then stop playing brawl and switch to melee

ITS BRAWL, NOT MK. STOP BLAMING MK FOR BRAWL SUCKING. its the game mechanics not the characters fault.

its to the point where u need to play gay. theese playstyles are ATs in the same essence as WDing or LCing

Its not Brawl at all. You are suppose to play Melee gay too, just look at Hungrbox.

**** man, its EVERY fighting game. Brawl is no more gay than other games except in terms of viable characters but like Melee we still have room to grow. In an interview, Wong was asked what's the most effective style of play in fighting games and he replied "gay." Gay is the way to go, always. Flash will win you fans, but won't win you the cash. What we call camping everyone else calls turtling. Its nothing exclusive to Brawl. And offense CAN be just as gay as defense when its your only option, like in Fist of the North Star or TMNT.

The true issue with Metaknight is that people have a great disdain, which is bad for the community, and I don't think you can complain about the community as a whole either, because a good deal of this community also exist in other fighters. Its comparable to V-13 in Blazblue, V-13 destroyed that game so fast. It went from HUGE HYPE to dead in a very short time, all because of V-13, Rachel, and Arakune. Now, you could chose between these three charecters, and like ADHD proves with Diddy, there is HOPE for you to be able to win with someone else as proved by Mike Z with the lowest tier charecter in the game, but it takes incredible talent and skill. That's not a healthy environment to continue a games growth. This isn't like SF4 Sagat where he's just slightly above the cast, Meta knight is incredibly dominant.

 

[Allied]

mad respect towards skabs <33

@crashic

yeah which is why i understand why people always bring up the same points of why MK should be banned because i'm sure for alot of them this is their first competitive fighter

 

[DAlegendarysamus]

The main problem with MK in my opinion is his Tornado. This move makers certain match ups that could be winnable absolutely not winnable.

Take Vex's Bowser vs Ally's MK for example.

Ally didn't tornado once and almost got JV two stocked.

Should MK be banned though because of this? no, it's just not enough.

should we arrest the kill no we need more proof i know he kill 10,000 babies but those are just babies we need more proof.

 

[thespymachine]

I personally think that there should be an established list of reasons why a character - in any game - should be banned, before we start deciding whether or not Metaknight should be banned.

It seems that the main reason to ban Metaknight is to allow diversity in the tournament scene; meaning more characters being tournament viable.

With Snake, Diddy, Falco?, Wario?, and ICs? being the only characters that go even with Metaknight, they get represented far more than other characters, since all other characters have a bad match-ups with Metaknight.
This essentially creates a game a game of just MK, Snake, Diddy, Falco, Wario, and Ice Climbers.

If you want more diversity in the game, I don't see why you wouldn't be for the ban; characters like Marth, Zss, Luigi, Pikachu, Olimar, and Pit would be so much more viable. (With more Pikachu's you get less Falco's. With more Zss's you'll get more Falco's. It's a balance.)


But there's most likely other reasons out there for (not)-banning MK, and creating diversity, I feel, isn't the best reason to ban a character.

- Cake

 

[M@v]

Olimar already is viable, lol. He'd be top 5 if it wasn't for his piece of **** recovery.

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

This thread is making me frustrated. I disagree w/ everyone except the Puerto Rican players, Crashic, DA, and Stingers. ADHD is being really selfish at this point, and is not thinking about anyone besides himself and the possible pot he can win. ADHD has the MK match-up on point, but is afraid of the other high/mid tiers that can beat him. He's really not thinking straight, and not thinking about the future and the community as a whole. I recall incidents of proof from Xyro's Hobo Series w/ MK ban having an unusually high amount of entrants.

MK should be banned. Reasons why?
* Limits the meta-game of every tier below high tier(even some high tiers are debatable-look @ Rob)
* Encourages the focus on 1 type of playstyle(campy, planking, timeouts)
* Over-rides natural skill, even if one player is better than the MK, the MK will most likely win.

 

[Allied]

This thread is making me frustrated. I disagree w/ everyone except the Puerto Rican players and Stingers. ADHD is being really selfish at this point, and is not thinking about anyone besides himself and the possible pot he can win. ADHD has the MK match-up on point, but is afraid of the other high/mid tiers that can beat him. He's really not thinking straight, and not thinking about the future and the community as a whole. I recall incidents of proof from Xyro's Hobo Series w/ MK ban having an unusually high amount of entrants.

MK should be banned. Reasons why?
* Limits the meta-game of every tier below high tier(even some high tiers are debatable-look @ Rob)
* Encourages the focus on 1 type of playstyle(campy, planking, timeouts)
* Over-rides natural skill, even if one player is better than the MK, the MK will most likely win.

Since when do you know what ADHD thinks and what his intentions ares you are truly the selfish one here

i'm done for now i'm kinda tired of reexplaining alot of stuff

 

[M@v]

Its not Brawl at all. You are suppose to play Melee gay too, just look at Hungrbox.

**** man, its EVERY fighting game. Brawl is no more gay than other games except in terms of viable characters but like Melee we still have room to grow. In an interview, Wong was asked what's the most effective style of play in fighting games and he replied "gay." Gay is the way to go, always. Flash will win you fans, but won't win you the cash. What we call camping everyone else calls turtling. Its nothing exclusive to Brawl. And offense CAN be just as gay as defense when its your only option, like in Fist of the North Star or TMNT.

The true issue with Metaknight is that people have a great disdain, which is bad for the community, and I don't think you can complain about the community as a whole either, because a good deal of this community also exist in other fighters. Its comparable to V-13 in Blazblue, V-13 destroyed that game so fast. It went from HUGE HYPE to dead in a very short time, all because of V-13, Rachel, and Arakune. Now, you could chose between these three charecters, and like ADHD proves with Diddy, there is HOPE for you to be able to win with someone else as proved by Mike Z with the lowest tier charecter in the game, but it takes incredible talent and skill. That's not a healthy environment to continue a games growth. This isn't like SF4 Sagat where he's just slightly above the cast, Meta knight is incredibly dominant.

Just look at Marvel vs Capcom 2. Cable is the spammiest mother f'er in that game, and its why he is fourth on the MvC2 tier list.

Look at this match. Its the best example of being "gay", and the guy pretty much mops the floor with the opponent with cable ALONE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9FLu3fzC40

 

[Angel.M <3 C:]

This thread is making me frustrated. I disagree w/ everyone except the Puerto Rican players and Stingers. ADHD is being really selfish at this point, and is not thinking about anyone besides himself and the possible pot he can win. ADHD has the MK match-up on point, but is afraid of the other high/mid tiers that can beat him. He's really not thinking straight, and not thinking about the future and the community as a whole. I recall incidents of proof from Xyro's Hobo Series w/ MK ban having an unusually high amount of entrants.

MK should be banned. Reasons why?
* Limits the meta-game of every tier below high tier(even some high tiers are debatable-look @ Rob)
* Encourages the focus on 1 type of playstyle(campy, planking, timeouts)
* Over-rides natural skill, even if one player is better than the MK, the MK will most likely win.

I saw a ganon take top 3 in a melee regional tournament. Learn to play the ****ing game.

 

[DireVulcan]

Lol I'm not really pro-banning Metaknight anymore SIMPLY because I know it's just not gonna happen. Although I must say ADHD, that your plea in first post was the logical equivalent of Indiana Jones climbing out of the fridge after being nuked and saying "ne1 who fkin died in dat explosion sux. its mad EZ 2 surviev dat sheit LOL step ur game up"

You also fail to consider the calculations of how much your own character cancels Metaknights strong points. Each tournament allows the community a better understanding of a characters strengths and weaknesses. Now if you pick 1 or 2 other characters and proceeded to do the same thing then yeah, you have a point. Otherwise, stfu and be happy you are making money off of the "My character ***** Metaknight" + "I am the best with my character" combination.

 

[HeroMystic]

I personally think that there should be an established list of reasons why a character - in any game - should be banned, before we start deciding whether or not Metaknight should be banned.

The criteria was already made the first time this flared up.

But there's most likely other reasons out there for (not)-banning MK, and creating diversity, I feel, isn't the best reason to ban a character.

It's a rather poor reason in the first place, and it's been debunked numerous times. I believe the counterargument was: "We ban MK, everyone goes to Snake/Diddy/DDD. Do we ban him next for the sake of diversity?"

At the same time, "Learn the Match-up" is becoming less and less of a valid argument. It's been 2+ years.

EDIT:

You also fail to consider the calculations of how much your own character cancels Metaknights strong points. Each tournament allows the community a better understanding of a characters strengths and weaknesses. Now if you pick 1 or 2 other characters and proceeded to do the same thing then yeah, you have a point. Otherwise, stfu and be happy you are making money off of the "My character ***** Metaknight" + "I am the best with my character" combination.

Actually, if there is just -one- counter against Metaknight, then the entire pro-ban argument falls apart. I personally don't believe Diddy is a counter however.