Video Thread: Now in Regular Definition!

PZ · Nov 14, 2009

over posting

o im very sorry about that if this counts as a double post sorry again but im only on smashboards to get betta at brawl i dont care about the amount of posts

Slice~ · Nov 14, 2009

nair jab fair spike, looks really nice dude!
anyways, something new against zudenkas peach, rate pls^^: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKjOoFkdCfA

Delta-cod · Nov 14, 2009

Slice, I gotta say, your Yoshi is very fun to watch. It's just all over the place. :laugh:

inb4MetacomesandsaysZudewasdoinitrong.

Metatitan · Nov 14, 2009

They were both playing the matchup terribly LOL

No offense slice, much love <3

Slice~ · Nov 14, 2009

Metatitan said:
They were both playing the matchup terribly LOL

No offense slice, much love <3

np, i´ve never really played against peach, so i´m not really familiar to this mu x)

PZ · Nov 14, 2009

Slice~ said:
nair jab fair spike, looks really nice dude!
anyways, something new against zudenkas peach, rate pls^^: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKjOoFkdCfA

i did the bair as a mindgame i also did it so i can execute the nair out of nowhere u can do the same with uair but when u do it on wiimote u might use ur second jump instead and thankyou for the comment =) ur my idol pretty much i watched both CV's pretty good stuff n zudenka's last 1 was just impossible (cant choose between whos better but ill figure it out zudenka or slice :dizzy:

)

Metatitan · Nov 14, 2009

Zudy needs to work on his peach, for maining both chars he sucks pretty hard at the MU :embarrass

Deleted member · Nov 14, 2009

I mean he seems pretty good with peach but he probably doesnt play the matchup much.
And everyone sucks at the matchup compared to us christian

~Firefly~ · Nov 15, 2009

Wow. I could not stop facepalming at myself while watching these matches, but here they are anyway. Critique me, I guess; it would be nice to figure out a way to not fail this match-up. =\

Vs. Snake
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2heswaIiAfY&feature=channel (1+2)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SsLpm5jZ_I&feature=channel (3)

breez · Nov 15, 2009

~Firefly~ said:
Wow. I could not stop facepalming at myself while watching these matches,

Ack, I know what you mean! I feel like I can improve on soooo many things! I need more nades, more nade traps, and more b-reversed nades to help with better spacing!

Agghh so many things to fix.

Sharky · Nov 15, 2009

biggest thing I can tell you: don't go into the ****. lol. Learn what Snake can do where, and don't let him do it to you, in other words, learn not to go into his attacks like you did here. Also, don't use eggs that close when he's on the ground, you're just asking to be hit.

Deleted member · Nov 15, 2009

~Firefly~ said:
Wow. I could not stop facepalming at myself while watching these matches, but here they are anyway. Critique me, I guess; it would be nice to figure out a way to not fail this match-up. =\

Vs. Snake
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2heswaIiAfY&feature=channel (1+2)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SsLpm5jZ_I&feature=channel (3)

I agree with sharky, you need to bait more.
You were good at mixing up your approaches and that, even though a few egg lays would have been nice, but it was VERY clear when you were going to approach out of your short hop and when you werent.
its kind of a yoshi thing cuz his aerial speed is so fast but make sure you can land right outside
snakes ftilt range and punish with DR ftilt or grab, he kept doing the same stuff to punish your approach.
It was pretty good tho, creative SH egg toss, just gotta work on a few kinks.

More egg lay in general, very important vs snake

Delta-cod · Nov 15, 2009

You walked into a lot of Snake's attacks. Like the others, I'm gonna say you need more Egg Lay. Very important to get him in the air.

Also, you overreacted a lot to grenades. They take forever to explode, don't freak out, make sure you know how long they've been out and avoid them. A lot of the time you could have simple walked away from a grenade but you tried to roll or approach or something. You can deal with nades very easily at long range, and you can egg him when he pulls one to blow it up and hit him or damage his shield.

At mid range you need to bait more instead of rushing into the ****. Bait and punish, or catch a nade and throw it back at him. You can also attempt to return to long range. If you're pinned at the edge, I personally will get onto it and throw some eggs from there since it's relatively safer.

Work on keeping Snake in the air. You let him return to the ground too easily. Keep grabbing him or hitting him with eggs when he's up there. It's very important to tack on any damage you can, since Snake lives forever. Also, learn to Super Jump so you can get him if he recovers high.

~Firefly~ · Nov 15, 2009

Yeah, I was playing really overaggressively that set. I got KOed so many times by airdodging into Utilts. >.< A lot of these things were kind of in the back of my mind while I watched the sets, and I know I need to do things like keeping him off the ground and staying calm around grenades a lot more consistantly, but I just wasn't doing any of it. I think there are definitely a few things that would come from more experience, such as becoming more accustomed to Snake's Ftilt range and grenade explosion timings. I'm really quite paranoid about grenades though, mainly because he sometimes cooks them so they explode as soon as they reach me, and I don't pay close enough attention to how long he holds them for. I tend to get greedy when punishing Snake's landings; I saw a lot of failed Fsmashes in the video, when a grab would've been much safer. As for the Super Jump, I have been playing around with it, but I haven't gotten the opportunity to practice it very much, so it's something I'm trying to incorperate into my game.

Thanks for all the help, guys. I really appreciate it. =D

bigman40 · Nov 15, 2009

~Firefly~ said:
Yeah, I was playing really overaggressively that set. I got KOed so many times by airdodging into Utilts. >.< A lot of these things were kind of in the back of my mind while I watched the sets, and I know I need to do things like keeping him off the ground and staying calm around grenades a lot more consistantly, but I just wasn't doing any of it. I think there are definitely a few things that would come from more experience, such as becoming more accustomed to Snake's Ftilt range and grenade explosion timings. I'm really quite paranoid about grenades though, mainly because he sometimes cooks them so they explode as soon as they reach me, and I don't pay close enough attention to how long he holds them for. I tend to get greedy when punishing Snake's landings; I saw a lot of failed Fsmashes in the video, when a grab would've been much safer. As for the Super Jump, I have been playing around with it, but I haven't gotten the opportunity to practice it very much, so it's something I'm trying to incorperate into my game.

Thanks for all the help, guys. I really appreciate it. =D

You always have to watch snake and how long he holds out his nades. Most of the time you can just straight up throw him instead of chewing to avoid the nade from blowing up. As soon as they're in the air, you take initiative and start tacking on the damamge. You can either wait for what he'll do, or just attack him with Uairs.

Also, if you can land an egg to stop them from going up out of range in the air, then relentlessly attack that recovery with Fairs. Nairs can get you gimped if you're not high in the air. So be careful how you choose to attack.

Delta-cod · Nov 15, 2009

I agree with Big. When you fight Snake, you need to watch him and any explosives he's set up more than you watch yourself. You always have to know where the C4 and mine are, as well as how long a nade has been out and if he's carrying one or not. So much to keep track of. It's a lot of micro management. >_<

~Firefly~ · Nov 15, 2009

Yeah, I tend to lose track of everything fairly often. Sometimes, I'll be paying attention to where the 2 grenades are, how long they're been out, where he planted his C4, and watching out for his mortar slide, only to step on the mine he planted 15 seconds ago. Playing on "auto-pilot", as I've seen people refer to it, ends very badly against Snake. I also don't use Uair that much mainly because he almost always airdodges when he's above me in the air, and I try to follow it up with something else every now and again. I typically end up using it for KOs more than anything else. I also tend to play it safe when he's offstage, and just toss eggs at him for a while if he's too far away. It's only when he's within range of a single-jumped/walk-off Fair that I go for it.

Deleted member · Nov 15, 2009

You guys are over-thinking it.

Maybe if its your first time playing against snake, but after you play it a lot, where he plants the stuff and when its gonna explode just kinda gets stored in your brain.

Snakes down b can be shielded on reaction i think, just care for smash ville platform.
Mines limit him more than you in this matchup.

bigman40 · Nov 15, 2009

burntsocks said:
You guys are over-thinking it.

Maybe if its your first time playing against snake, but after you play it a lot, where he plants the stuff and when its gonna explode just kinda gets stored in your brain.

Snakes down b can be shielded on reaction i think, just care for smash ville platform.
Mines limit him more than you in this matchup.

You just basically said what I said. You have to watch snake for where he places his stuff and how long he holds his nades. You're just saying stuff that should be expected on a high level of play.

~Mieu

~Firefly~ · Nov 16, 2009

I have played Snakes before, but it's been a while since I've played one who makes such liberal use of his explosives. It's just something I need to get used to, I guess.

bigman40 · Nov 16, 2009

So I'll probably be able to get some match vids of my Yoshi finally on the weekend. Be prepared to see the suckage that my Yoshi deals out.

~Mieu

Delta-cod · Nov 16, 2009

More like the **** that your Yoshi deals out.

Either way, your Yoshi is fun to watch. =D

Airborne · Nov 16, 2009

bigman40 said:
So I'll probably be able to get some match vids of my Yoshi finally on the weekend. Be prepared to see the suckage that my Yoshi deals out.

~Mieu

Delta-cod said:
More like the **** that your Yoshi deals out.

Either way, your Yoshi is fun to watch. =D

^^^ that. If Shiri is correctly predicting that the yoshi metagame will eventually rely on a ground-based game in the future, then you need to bust out that DR and show us yo' moves. ;D

Sharky · Nov 17, 2009

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14skshK4hok&feature=channel

start of a best of 5 mm practicing for a low tier tourney. he's going mostly Ike but I kinda made him switch to samus against me lol. some observations I already have:

need a bit more egg-lay
my spacing needs some work
I seem to be rolling more often than normal in the samus match-up to get through the zair/missiles.
loltotallyshouldhaveseenthosechargeshotscominglol
my DR isn't quite 100% yet so I elected not to use it in a mm
lolrainbowcruisemistakes
I need to stop attacking samus' shield.

bigman40 · Nov 18, 2009

Sharky said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14skshK4hok&feature=channel

start of a best of 5 mm practicing for a low tier tourney. he's going mostly Ike but I kinda made him switch to samus against me lol. some observations I already have:

need a bit more egg-lay
my spacing needs some work
I seem to be rolling more often than normal in the samus match-up to get through the zair/missiles.
loltotallyshouldhaveseenthosechargeshotscominglol
my DR isn't quite 100% yet so I elected not to use it in a mm
lolrainbowcruisemistakes
I need to stop attacking samus' shield.

You need work on your DI. You died at percents you shouldn't have.

I won't say much on the Samus/Yoshi MU since I have my own theories to test. You should expect much more UpB's to come if you keep attacking Samus's shield. So either learn to DI out of the UpB or try to bait it.

Don't get too crazy with Fair and Nair. The priority isn't what it seems to be from melee for either of them, and most attacks can beat them (hell they can even shield grab). Lastly, remember your kill moves. Uair, DownB, and Fsmash are the strongest killing options Yoshi has (they can kill at about 130-150% most of the time). Usmash is still a killing option, but it can't really kill consistently until people are over 150%.

Just quick notes that I saw from watching them.

Sharky · Nov 18, 2009

did I really use fair that much? I totally didn't realize, I don't even like that move =/

the shield attacking is something I know I need to stop, as mentioned in my post. anybody know how to DI it?

I do like nair simply for its speed and lasting hitbox, though. Down b doesn't seem to have much use in MU from what I've seen.

and yeah, my DI is **** lol

Delta-cod · Nov 18, 2009

Spotdodge > Down B is decent for kills. At least I think so. =/

Poltergust · Nov 18, 2009

It depends on where your opponent is and how laggy the move you just dodged is, though.

I love punishing Marth's f-smash and Snake's f-tilt with it, though. ^_^

Delta-cod · Nov 19, 2009

Good news, I'll be getting some matches of me recorded this Saturday, so expect some vids soon. :D

PRiDE · Nov 20, 2009

as will I ;P see u there..

Delta-cod · Nov 20, 2009

I demand we record Yoshi dittoes. Yosh said I can send replays saved on my Wii to him for uploading. =P

YOSHssb · Dec 2, 2009

Wah, no one's posted on here in like almost 2 weeks. I've got some videos that I might as well share:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3I6PQrteto <== vs. G&W 1 of 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HTgXf-wR5o <== vs. G&W 2 of 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITEu9Uz8aRc <== vs. G&W 3 of 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoFG-CUkfGc <== vs. Snake 1 of 1

Kirby is like the ONLY person I have in Arkansas to play against... G&W is his main followed probably by Sheik, but he's trying out Snake right now to give me some Snake experience (more so that I can just keep an eye on all those **** explosives). Sorry for the no sound, this was during a 3-hour Ustream that I did a couple weeks ago and it didn't want to pick up sound for some reason.

Tips appreciated as always. I've got my fair share of mistakes in these matches (as everyone does), but if I'm doing anything that just screams OMG DON'T DO THAT!!!one!! then point it out and I'll defend myself or change my game. But, yeah, enjoy.

~Firefly~ · Dec 3, 2009

bigman40 · Dec 3, 2009

~Firefly~ said:
I've got a ton of vids here. Probably too many. o.0

vs. bundtcake (Ice Climbers, Kirby)
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=bcbrawl#p/search/8/pGlEQS55szg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoBjsGNjVpk
The actual tourney match against his Kirby wasn't saved, so I got this one to replace it. =3

Critique would be great, as always. Of course, this list is stupidly long, so the ones I want feedback from the most would be my matches against bundt, the first four (tourney set) against breez, and MAYBE the Marth matches, possibly one of the MK matches as well. I know it's probably a load of crap, but I figured I'd put them all up for the archive. =3

Match 1

Seems to me that you haven't fought ICs many times to know the MU.

1st Stock

0:30 - Always use retreating bairs to keep yourself from getting grabbed.

0:34 - Never use dash attack like that. This MU is about not getting grabbed. Getting grabbed = one stock.

0:37 - You can't outright beat blizzard. Just avoid it and either get on the ledge, or go for the platform that was above.

0:43 - Very big missed opportunity. As soon as you have them separated, you are to go into, "I'm about to **** you up" mode.

1:43 - Bad choice that made you lose a stock. You could have Fsmashed him the other way, or could have Fsmash Popo to just outright kill him. If you had to kill Nana, then just hit him from the other side, away from Popo.

2nd stock

1:51 - Too predictable. He saw you coming and just grabbed you. If he would've done it right, he should have Dthrow CG'ed you till the end of the stage and Fsmash you (or until you reach a certain percent). ICs have bad grab range, so you can space your Bair to bait the grab, and then punish.

2:27 - Fsmash when opponent's at low percent = hell no option.

2:41 - DI and momentum cancel that!

3rd Stock

Note: Okay, now we're picking it up. You started moving like you had a purpose now (sorry, but I just don't like slow reaction a lot). You practically had stopped trying to space with the pivot grabs and used Bair like you were supposed to from the beginning.

3:23 - You can't beat IC's Uair. It has too good priority. Just avoid it.

3:41 - If you end up being that low, then just sweetspot the ledge. I'll explain that later.

4:32 - I ****ing lol'ed hard at that. a non-sweetspotted Fair into a sweetspotted one. You got really lucky there.

4:38 - Fail. Just what were you trying to do anyway?

Overall

You need to abuse Bairs. It separates them really well, and as soon as that happens, you need to take advantage of any time it takes for them to sync together again. Use less grabbing (not egg lay) cause when you grab one, the other can just hit you out of hit. There are times where it comes in handy, but not all the time.

For 3:41, when Yoshi's end up going low and need to get back up to the stage, I'd just say to sweetspot the ledge by doing a DJ > Aerial > Buffered DownB. If you finish the aerial in the range of DownB grabbing the ledge, you'll just warp onto the ledge as soon as Yoshi begins to yell out. However, note that you have to put the control stick back to neutral before the animation begins (that means if you attempt to unbuffer it, that's a 1 frame window).

Lastly, we all know that IC's grabbing us = loss of stock, and we shouldn't underestimate how good people have the CGs down. Make it priority to camp until you separate them. Also, if you have platforms on the stage, follow them, or keep them close by so that you can use it as an option (aka stay by the moving platform for any emergencies).

TL;DR

Use more Bairs (retreating/offensive/etc.). Don't rely on Dair's funny priority to save you. Use less pivot grabs, but keep the egg lays. Camp until you can split them up, and as soon as that happens, go into beast mode.

I don't feel like writing another essay for the next one so I might get to it later. Also, I'll get to you soon Yosh. I just need to listen to some music while watching it x.x

Edit: Firefly, whenever IC's upB at you like that, you need to just obliterate them for even thinking about that option. That's basically calling you to **** them.

~Mieu

YOSHssb · Dec 3, 2009

Heh, I don't get in-depth coverage like that =P

Shiri · Dec 3, 2009

Firefly, you need to grab Snake more and be more grabby at the edge.

At the edge against Snake, you only want to attack when they're a ways off the stage and mostly horizontal with it. If they're recovering low, don't attack and grab instead (or edgehog if they will sweetspot). If they're recovering high, just sit back and grab wherever they land. Don't go for A attacks or eggs when they're so close to the stage; just wait it out, find out the scenario they're putting themselves in, and then use the appropriate action. At first it'll seem like, "No way this will work if I do it over and over," but this is less of a mindgame and more of a technique.

It's like rock-paper-scissors except this version is rock-index card-pocket knife-boulder because there is seriously nothing Snake can do when he's in the positions you were able to get Snake into in your matches besides rely on luck or error on your part, but you tried to capitalize in different ways; stick to a really really gay and basic strategy when you get Snake in that position and you'll end up doing much better.

Like in one match, you grabbed Snake and did a down throw and then waited him out and grabbed him as he landed. Another time, Snake was falling from a cypher onto the stage and you just waited it out and then upsmashed for the KO because he couldn't do anything about it. Do that, except all the time when you get Snake to the edge.

Remember, either:

1] Force him to attempt a sweetspot and edgehog,
2] Force a low recovery and grab the cypher, or
3] Wait out a high recovery and throw off the stage to repeat.

This is one of the few win-win, or rather, win-can't lose, situations for Yoshi in this game, so milk all you can out of it.

bigman40 · Dec 3, 2009

YOSHssb said:
Heh, I don't get in-depth coverage like that =P

You will now.

Match 2

Stock 1

0:47 - That was your chance to get off a quick stock. I would've opted to take the ledge to force him to land on the stage, then you should punish accordingly.

0:49 - You can use Yoshi's pivot grab to negate a lot of options when they're on the ledge. All you need to do is just position yourself so that you have the time to do a sliding pivot grab. It would benefited more than taking a Fair.

1:00 - Good job taking the ledge. I was hoping that you'd capitalize on the opportunity since he gave it again.

1:32 - This is mainly the aera where Yoshi's tend to take too much damage. We have serious trouble getting onto the stage after getting on the ledge. I still have that problem, so idk what to tell you right now, but I would suggest you watch vids of yourself and see where you take lots of damage from.

2nd Stock

1:39 - Too risky to follow up with a Uair when he's in the egg. I would suggest that you follow up with an egg at low percents and slowly mix it in with a Uair when you can possibly kill.

2:03 - Don't chase that hard. Dair isn't even that great of a move to use often so I'd say stay away from it unless it's a last resort.

2:35 - you still had your DJ. Go off the stage and either: 1) DJAD backwards if he tries to attack you, or 2) Sweetspot the ledge and try to reset the fight. You want to keep that stock as long as possible, so those were better options imo.

3rd Stock

2:40 - Reaction time! You should've been spacing and shouldn't get grabbed like that.

3:37 - Get that reaction time up. If you can spot Yoshi PSing attacks (especially laggy moves) you can just unshield and get free hits, which is rare for us when shielding.

3:40 - Careful when trying to follow up after an egg. Most people can just airdodge your attempt and force you to another option. Sometimes, you can just attempt to bait the AD so it would be easier for you.

Overall

You did fine. It looked like the GW was too frustrated at the end to really keep going seriously. Just make sure that you watch how much you use Dairs, and how you choose your options. Your decision making made you take more damage than need be imo. Otherwise, nicely done.

~Mieu

~Firefly~ · Dec 4, 2009

@ Bigman: Yeah, that was the first time I had played against a decent Ice Climbers, so I was mostly still figuring out the match-up. He doesn't know how to 0-death with ICs yet; he mains ROB/Kirby, but he keeps using random characters so I don't get much time to figure him out. Because of the lack of death chaingrabs, I wasn't as concerned about avoiding grabs as I know I should've been. There were a lot of unfamiliar situations (hence the failed attempts to punish his up-B; I kept thinking "what would be the best way to own him?" and I panicked XD), and a bunch of bad habits showed on my part as well. The end was just a massive failure of an edge-cancelled egg. I facepalmed for about a minute after that. DX

I'll try and remember some of those things for next time. A lot of it is just common sense, and I mainly need to actually not do stupid things. The edge-grabbing technique sounds interesting; I'll have to try that out the next time I get the chance.

@ Shiri: I read your massive post on how to fight Snake multiple times, and I'm trying to do some of the things you're saying, but I keep trying to do random crap instead. I keep thinking that if I get predictable, I'll just get owned with Bair or grenades or something, and it's hard for me to just stick for that simple strategy. I'm way too cautious on the edge; I always just sit back and toss eggs, and he almost always makes it back as a result. I need to get it into my head to stop trying to complicate everything.

Thanks a bunch to both of you for the help. ^.^

YOSHssb · Dec 4, 2009

Whoots, thanks Bigs ^^

I normally don't use Down Aerial that much, but my opponent had made a comment earlier that night that even when I used my "laggy aerials" (like forward and down aerial near the ground), he still isn't able to punish me because I slide away whenever I land, so I was testing it out a bit.

I had always noticed that I didn't take damage when I released my powershield in a multi-hit attack, but I kind of always thought it was a glitch rather than something that happens every time. I'll try to react accordingly in the future (I'm also trying to get the reaction time for the "failed" egg lay that brings your opponent closer to you, but it's a slow process).

About the following up an egg-lay with an up-aerial, that was one of the main issues that Bwett had about my game as well. Typically with characters that have a down aerial that sends them straight down (Sonic, Sheik, G&W, ZSS, etc...) I don't follow it up with up aerial unless I don't think they'll expect it. I think in that fight I was trying to figure out if I could space it well enough so that I could just nick the side of the egg so I could get the damage and get away fast enough, but I'd have to work on it more before I'd use it in say a tournament.

Thanks for the advice man ^^ I need to get some tourney footage on here sometime, heh.

Scarlet Jile · Dec 4, 2009

Sorry about the whole "not logging in for several months" thing.

I swear to Jeebus I still care about everyone, I've just been so busy.

So. Ya'know.

EDIT: LOOK AT THAT UPDATE. LOOK AT IT. AM I THE MAN, OR WHAT?

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