Yosh and I had an extremely long conversation talking about how he can improve his game based on the vids i linked of him. I figured this might help everyone, so those that are interested in improving, please watch the vids linked and follow the conversation. Keep in mind I don't mind talking to people about how they should improve. I don't post large posts because it takes too long, but I enjoy having interactive conversations with people, so if you want to talk about a certain situation or critique a vid, please PM me.
bwett1986 (11:44:52 AM):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3I6PQrteto
"Yosh" (11:45:07 AM): heh
bwett1986 (11:45:15 AM): at :30, when you throw an egg to force an airdodge
bwett1986 (11:45:23 AM): the nair was interesting lol
"Yosh" (11:45:40 AM): heh, thanks
bwett1986 (11:45:51 AM): in that situation, what options do you have?
bwett1986 (11:46:01 AM): he is falling with an airdodge
"Yosh" (11:46:04 AM): up-smash maybe
"Yosh" (11:46:18 AM): pivot grab again
bwett1986 (11:46:32 AM): pivot grab is really good against g&w
bwett1986 (11:46:39 AM): it wouldve been guaranteed right there
bwett1986 (11:46:44 AM): not saying the nair was wrong
bwett1986 (11:46:54 AM): but you need to know all options you have
bwett1986 (11:46:57 AM): what else?
"Yosh" (11:47:18 AM): well, if neutral hit, then up-aerial would have worked also
bwett1986 (11:47:24 AM): exactly
bwett1986 (11:47:52 AM): what i've found against g&w is that you dont have many chances to uair
"Yosh" (11:47:54 AM): i like the kill I got at 2:43
bwett1986 (11:48:21 AM): unless you are amazing at spacing a ff g&w dair
"Yosh" (11:48:48 AM): I'm getting better at spacing it properly
bwett1986 (11:48:56 AM): usmash does not beat dair unless he slow falls it
"Yosh" (11:48:58 AM): but it's still not something that I'd risk a stock doing
bwett1986 (11:49:14 AM): atleast as far as i remember
"Yosh" (11:49:20 AM): makes sense
bwett1986 (11:49:35 AM): retreating egglay is amazing, gj using it
"Yosh" (11:49:44 AM): thanks
bwett1986 (11:50:17 AM): every time a character jumps, no matter the character, there a good chance if you guess the jump, you get a free usmash
"Yosh" (11:50:43 AM): yeah, I noticed that if he double jumps close to the ground then I can generally get an up-smash out of it
"Yosh" (11:51:11 AM): because there's not a lot he can do to prevent it
bwett1986 (11:51:22 AM): just in general, because yoshi's head goes way out in front of him, if you guess it, almost no aerial will come out fast enough or beats it
bwett1986 (11:51:55 AM): at :57 you threw two eggs in the same place
bwett1986 (11:52:10 AM): you need to move after each egg
bwett1986 (11:52:22 AM): especially if a character is hovering right above you
"Yosh" (11:52:25 AM): as in i stayed in the same spot?
bwett1986 (11:52:26 AM): he couldve daired
bwett1986 (11:52:28 AM): yes
"Yosh" (11:52:57 AM): yeah, I need to use the ETS more in my game
bwett1986 (11:53:08 AM): just use it every time
"Yosh" (11:53:11 AM): heh
bwett1986 (11:53:16 AM): thats what i do
bwett1986 (11:53:22 AM): whether i stand still or not
bwett1986 (11:53:34 AM): it doesnt do anything if you stand still
bwett1986 (11:54:50 AM): you had a lead and you started getting too aggressive
bwett1986 (11:55:05 AM): outside of your jab, g&w beats you at close range
bwett1986 (11:55:13 AM): you **** him at mid and long range
bwett1986 (11:55:38 AM): keep him at pivot grab range unless you catch a jab or bair
bwett1986 (11:56:08 AM): in many cases, double jab to retreating pivot grab and double jab to usmash work really well
bwett1986 (11:56:35 AM): the double jab pops g&w up and he will instinctively dair in many cases
"Yosh" (11:56:50 AM): makes sense
bwett1986 (11:57:57 AM): unless g&w is at higher percents and you are not above 60%, you should never use downb in the air
"Yosh" (11:58:32 AM): yeah, I thought that I was gonna slide away from him after that, but I kind of hit that slope and just stopped, heh
bwett1986 (11:59:17 AM): the higher you are, you shorter you slide i believe
"Yosh" (11:59:36 AM): yeah, I just didn't factor that in when I was playing
bwett1986 (12:00:38 PM): if possible, could you copy this convo into the vid thread for other people after im done?
"Yosh" (12:00:56 PM): I can do that
bwett1986 (12:01:06 PM):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HTgXf-wR5o
bwett1986 (12:01:25 PM): what is your strategy if you get fd against a g&w?
"Yosh" (12:01:38 PM): stay away and rack up damage
bwett1986 (12:01:48 PM): and what are your main tools?
"Yosh" (12:01:57 PM): pivot grab and egg toss
bwett1986 (12:02:04 PM): excellent =)
"Yosh" (12:02:10 PM): heh
bwett1986 (12:02:57 PM): what do you use dsmash for?
"Yosh" (12:03:25 PM): I'm bad about using it at low percentages, but I use it out of a spot dodge mainly to push my opponent away
bwett1986 (12:03:54 PM): anytime you see that you can punish your opponent, but usmash and fsmash is too slow, use dsmash
bwett1986 (12:04:01 PM): are*
"Yosh" (12:04:12 PM): noted
bwett1986 (12:04:28 PM): its "bad" because if you miss, youll be punished
bwett1986 (12:04:37 PM): but if you know it will hit, why not?
"Yosh" (12:04:57 PM): yeah, which is why sometimes I argue that down-tilt is better in most cases because of the less lag afterwards
"Yosh" (12:05:23 PM): if you're not sure it'll hit, but you wanna take the chance, then less lag would be better
bwett1986 (12:06:03 PM): id argue dsmash anyways because of the shield knockback
"Yosh" (12:06:36 PM): i've found that two down tilts immediately following each other can most of the time get the second one to hit
"Yosh" (12:06:50 PM): because it'll either poke the bottom of the shield, or they'll drop it for an attack
bwett1986 (12:06:57 PM): i like that
bwett1986 (12:07:00 PM): do that
"Yosh" (12:07:02 PM): heh
bwett1986 (12:07:06 PM): as long as it works lol
bwett1986 (12:07:26 PM): at 1:07, you grab the ledge to try to gimp g&w and it worked
bwett1986 (12:07:43 PM): if you are facing a better g&w, do not, in any situation, try to gimp g&w
bwett1986 (12:07:52 PM): with any character
"Yosh" (12:07:59 PM): heh
bwett1986 (12:08:29 PM): if you had faced zac, i guarantee you, he would've activated it a frame earlier and it wouldve stage spiked you
"Yosh" (12:08:42 PM): yeah, I don't doubt that, heh
bwett1986 (12:08:58 PM): just throw eggs if g&w is off stage
bwett1986 (12:09:19 PM): maybe an uair here and there, but really, its just extremely dangerous
"Yosh" (12:10:04 PM): yeah, that's a flaw in my game when a G&W is hanging on the ledge, I know the safest thing is just to sit there and throw eggs until he gets back on the stage, because neutral aerial outprioritizes everything I have in that position
"Yosh" (12:10:27 PM): but every time I start throwing them and he's still hanging on, I tell myself "maybe he won't expect me to attack" and then I get hit, heh
bwett1986 (12:11:22 PM): a smart g&w will expect an attack, and he can space a nair. If he catches the last hit, it will pull you off stage. Then he'll fair or upb to spike you
"Yosh" (12:12:10 PM): yeah, it's just something that I guess I keep playing around with in friendlies hoping that maybe I'll have this monumental breakthrough that never happens
bwett1986 (12:12:45 PM): at 1:06, you probably shouldve thrown an egg first
bwett1986 (12:12:50 PM): before your dj
bwett1986 (12:13:08 PM): 1:14 is pro
bwett1986 (12:13:28 PM): well starting with the airdodge
"Yosh" (12:14:02 PM): normally I'd agree with you on the egg throw (and I do it 99% of the time) but he's been waiting for the egg throw and jumping off stage to forward aerial me a lot more
bwett1986 (12:14:14 PM): then you did the proper thing
"Yosh" (12:14:15 PM): so every now and then, I throw in a double jump first to try to confuse him
bwett1986 (12:14:37 PM): if you try to be agressive with nair, use it as rising
"Yosh" (12:14:40 PM): and yeah, that down aerial was stupid, heh
bwett1986 (12:15:18 PM): remember what i said about hovering in the up corner of their shield with your jump, wait, then dj into a nair
bwett1986 (12:15:41 PM): upper*
"Yosh" (12:15:41 PM): yeah, i tried it at 1:23 and just had a footstool instead
"Yosh" (12:15:53 PM): I'll work on it
"Yosh" (12:16:15 PM): didn't wait along enough I guess
bwett1986 (12:16:18 PM): when you did that first jump, thats when you shouldve done it
bwett1986 (12:16:26 PM): jump and approach
bwett1986 (12:16:39 PM): sit right above grab range, then rising nair
bwett1986 (12:16:52 PM): because you drop down on your dj, it will hit
bwett1986 (12:17:29 PM): learn to SDI out of bair
bwett1986 (12:17:39 PM): up and towards
"Yosh" (12:17:46 PM): if you space it improperly and go too low, can they buffer in a shield grab and take away your 2nd jump?
"Yosh" (12:18:05 PM): I typically just SDI up, I didn't know you should do it toward him too
bwett1986 (12:18:39 PM): it depends if they retreat it or not, but up and towards will work most of the time
"Yosh" (12:19:19 PM): alright
bwett1986 (12:20:27 PM): if g&w is on the ground and you are falling towards him, you shouldn't be airdodging
bwett1986 (12:20:37 PM): they will charge a smash and kill you at 70%
"Yosh" (12:20:44 PM): heh, i've found this out recently
bwett1986 (12:21:16 PM): if its possible, try never to land near g&w
"Yosh" (12:21:34 PM): yeah, in that case, I still had my 2nd jump, so I could have done rising neutral-aerial
bwett1986 (12:21:34 PM): if they try to run towards you to get under, stop them with egglay
"Yosh" (12:21:48 PM): or egg lay would have worked too
"Yosh" (12:21:55 PM): or just getting the hell away in general, heh
bwett1986 (12:22:16 PM): if you cant stop them, try nair or something desperate, just the worst situation is airdodge most times
"Yosh" (12:22:30 PM): alright
bwett1986 (12:23:19 PM): at 3:05, g&w is sitting there and you have the percent lead, why are you approaching?
"Yosh" (12:23:49 PM): not sure honestly. Error on my part
bwett1986 (12:24:00 PM): if he thinks he can just sit there and win, show him that eggs override shield lol
"Yosh" (12:24:05 PM): heh
bwett1986 (12:24:29 PM): you should always keep track of your percents in that situation
bwett1986 (12:24:54 PM): even if he is in the lead and he sits there, your eggs win
bwett1986 (12:25:08 PM): he has to approach eventually
bwett1986 (12:25:48 PM): in general, in brawl, the approaching character has the disadvantagwe
bwett1986 (12:26:00 PM): force him to approach and punish
bwett1986 (12:26:18 PM): this should be a mainstay strategy that you should use in all matchups
"Yosh" (12:26:29 PM): maybe that's why I like Brawl better than Melee, heh. I'm more of a defensive player than an aggressive one
bwett1986 (12:26:30 PM): thats why egg toss and pivot grab are used to much
bwett1986 (12:26:40 PM): so*
bwett1986 (12:27:26 PM): at 3:13 or so, you forced the airdodge again with an egg
bwett1986 (12:27:36 PM): that time, you shouldve used usmash
bwett1986 (12:27:48 PM): you need to rack percent fast against g&w
bwett1986 (12:28:05 PM): he kills you starting at 70%
bwett1986 (12:28:15 PM): you kill him starting around 110%
"Yosh" (12:28:46 PM): makes sense
bwett1986 (12:29:26 PM): if you are in a high pressure situation where yall are close in combat and he keeps nairing, spam nair
bwett1986 (12:29:34 PM): specifically around 3:35
"Yosh" (12:31:33 PM): I think I did that in the first video more, especially when he had a little landing lag
bwett1986 (12:31:44 PM):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoFG-CUkfGc
bwett1986 (12:31:53 PM): against snake, you should be grabbing alot
bwett1986 (12:32:17 PM): any time he is in the air, unless he is at kill percent, you should be grabbing most often
bwett1986 (12:32:36 PM): the goal is to always keep snake in the air
bwett1986 (12:32:43 PM): if he is on the ground, youve lost
bwett1986 (12:32:54 PM): his ftilt beats everything
bwett1986 (12:32:58 PM): every approach
"Yosh" (12:33:06 PM): yeah, it's annoying, heh
bwett1986 (12:33:10 PM): i think the only thing MAYBE is dash grab
bwett1986 (12:33:24 PM): it even beats egglay
bwett1986 (12:33:48 PM): so if you grab him near the edge, grab fthrow
"Yosh" (12:33:50 PM): so would you typically say down/up throw or relase?
bwett1986 (12:33:56 PM): fthrow
bwett1986 (12:33:59 PM): or bthrow
"Yosh" (12:34:04 PM): interesting
"Yosh" (12:34:18 PM): so you wouldn't do the chaingrab shennanigans?
bwett1986 (12:34:33 PM): you can do cg stuff with fthrow and bthrow
bwett1986 (12:34:48 PM): your throws should be gravitating towards off the stage
bwett1986 (12:34:53 PM): up and down do nothing
bwett1986 (12:35:12 PM): you arent using throws to do damage
"Yosh" (12:35:17 PM): if you predict what they do out of the up/down throw, then you can up-aerial
bwett1986 (12:35:35 PM): your goal isnt to rack damage
bwett1986 (12:35:41 PM): its to control snake
"Yosh" (12:35:42 PM): but that only comes from playing your opponent for a while, not something you just do
bwett1986 (12:35:53 PM): no
bwett1986 (12:36:10 PM): i know exactly what a snake will do if i fthrow him off the stage
"Yosh" (12:36:16 PM): heh
"Yosh" (12:36:28 PM): but what about grabbing in the center of the stage?
bwett1986 (12:36:40 PM): you should be throwing him towards the edge
bwett1986 (12:36:50 PM): snakes win when they control the stage
bwett1986 (12:36:56 PM): you don't allow them to do that
"Yosh" (12:36:58 PM): alright, makes sense
"Yosh" (12:37:11 PM): lack of Snake experience is one reason why I didn't go further in No Koast
"Yosh" (12:37:17 PM): I got 2-stocked by Nappy twice in a row
bwett1986 (12:37:20 PM): im not saying that you shouldnt do a certain thing
bwett1986 (12:37:33 PM): keep in mind, mindgames change everything
bwett1986 (12:37:47 PM): im giving the basic strategies for how to beat people
"Yosh" (12:37:53 PM): yeah
bwett1986 (12:37:59 PM): they should not be set in stone so you can use uthrow
bwett1986 (12:38:09 PM): but your strategy should involve fthrow and bthrow
"Yosh" (12:38:47 PM): so would you say a Snake will typically jump out of a forward throw when off the stage? and you'd follow it up with forward aerial or risine neutral aerial?
bwett1986 (12:39:18 PM): the snake will jump out of fthrow, you run back
bwett1986 (12:39:36 PM): if he continues to di towards the center, you are in a perfect situation for pivot grab
bwett1986 (12:39:45 PM): you fthrow again
"Yosh" (12:39:46 PM): and then if you grab again, he's out a 2nd jump
bwett1986 (12:40:02 PM): correct
bwett1986 (12:40:52 PM): between each throw, an egg should be thrown to stop his upb
bwett1986 (12:42:19 PM): after you fthrow again, he probably wont di towards you again, so as you are running away, pivot back around and dash grab
bwett1986 (12:43:01 PM): this strategy will **** almost all snakes
"Yosh" (12:43:10 PM): good to know
"Yosh" (12:43:16 PM): <== has no good snakes to play =(
"Yosh" (12:43:27 PM): unfortunate since he's so common
bwett1986 (12:43:45 PM): if they decide not to get on the stage and grab the ledge, dash grab, throw them off and immediately rising fair
bwett1986 (12:44:13 PM): they will try to upb
"Yosh" (12:46:06 PM): I typically release grab 'em in that situation (lack of experience talking so this could be entirely wrong thinking) and do the rising foward aerial. If they up-B then it'll hit the same I think
"Yosh" (12:46:56 PM): if they wait for the up-B, then you are above him when he uses it and you can follow it up with another forward aerial or a sweetspotted neutral aerial
bwett1986 (12:47:32 PM): i use fthrow as conditioning
bwett1986 (12:47:47 PM): every time you have fthrow or bthrow, you have thrown an egg afterwards
bwett1986 (12:48:00 PM): they wont expect it
bwett1986 (12:48:11 PM): you do something different, they will be more cautious
"Yosh" (12:48:23 PM): built-in mind games
bwett1986 (12:48:23 PM): plus everyone expects grab release to fair
"Yosh" (12:48:24 PM): i like it
bwett1986 (12:48:35 PM): its not new and completely expected
bwett1986 (12:49:34 PM):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmUNZhsDY9k
bwett1986 (12:49:39 PM): at 4:29
bwett1986 (12:49:44 PM): this is the best vid i have
bwett1986 (12:49:59 PM): it doesnt really show you much but it shows you the spacing
bwett1986 (12:50:07 PM): notice how i just wait
bwett1986 (12:50:11 PM): and see his di
"Yosh" (12:50:59 PM): very nice
bwett1986 (12:51:25 PM): even if he b-reverses a grenage, he has to drop the grenade
bwett1986 (12:51:32 PM): within that time, you can grab
bwett1986 (12:51:43 PM): anytime a snake pulls a grenade, it is a free grab
bwett1986 (12:51:46 PM): dont pummel
"Yosh" (12:51:48 PM): I think in my combo video I just had 3 different snake parts and they were all n00b snakes that I just pwned, heh
bwett1986 (12:51:49 PM): just throw
"Yosh" (12:53:42 PM): man, my combo video's terrible, heh
bwett1986 (12:53:45 PM): starting at 5:33 is exactly what im talking about with waiting in front of their shield
bwett1986 (12:54:09 PM): at 5:43 exactly
bwett1986 (12:54:24 PM): if you keep approaching with your back turned, they will think bair
bwett1986 (12:54:40 PM): then you can turn it and extend the range of nair
"Yosh" (12:55:12 PM): yeah, i'll have to work on that to get the turn and forward momentum without doing the forward aerial
"Yosh" (12:58:06 PM): yay something I can do in training mode that's not DR!!!
bwett1986 (12:58:42 PM): so yeah, im tired now lol
"Yosh" (12:59:03 PM): heh, well, thank you =)