DoH
meleeitonme.tumblr.com
Fine vanz, I've got a better teammate anyway
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VaNz Stuff.. about Peach (Tactical Discussion)
- Thread starter Cia
- Start date
Tekk
Smash Lord
Agreed, Misfits is one hell of a show.
Hai Im Fearless
Smash Lord
Someone watch\critique my peach vid =(
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2011
- Messages
- 5,493
I'm watching it at the moment. I can point out things that I notice, if they might help you.
VA
Smash Hero
Post a video of you in a more conventional match up. I watched about 30 seconds and I couldn't really understand your motivation in most things so I stopped.
MacD
Banned via Administration
i skipped around the first match, and it just seems you are kinda new to the game on a competitive level
you have the #1 bad habit every peach main has, which is dsmashing on platforms all the time for no reason and it barely ever working
your motions are also very... sloppy i guess is the word. things just don't flow well. you don't have as much control of your character as i'm sure you'd like (even if you don't realize it). you kept double jumping a lot trying to float, missed L cancels, and just didn't move well. i know me/vanz have posted stuff about this before in a longer write up you might find helpful (even if it isn't directed at your vid specifically) maybe someone else knows where one of those posts might be and can link it to you
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2011
- Messages
- 5,493
Firstly, what MacD said. You don't seem to have so much control of Peach. I think your take on her is refreshing, but you need to be more refined.
These are two posts about control that MacD was kinda talking about. At the very least, they should help you put things into perspective.
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12129728&postcount=4626
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=9997185&postcount=1979
A few ICs things:
-You want to generally be careful when you are above them. ICs have nice moves above them (utilt, uair, usmash, fsmash to a degree) that really hurt. You can either space your float so that you are low to the ground, or be less direct with it.
-In relation to that, be very careful about how you land. I've noticed that ICs have good tools for punishing landings, cause they have a quick, long WD and poweful ground moves. I did see you get punished for that (3:40 is a good example).
-Recover high against them. It sounds like it contradicts what I said earlier about being above them, but they have a fairly good edge guard against her if she goes for the ledge. You don't want to risk eating fsmashes/ice blocks/dtilts.
-Just make sure that whenever you have them separated, kill Nana first. You seemed to do that well enough, though.
As a sidenote: You use usmash very well, and I like what you're trying. The most important thing, though, is control. Make sure your wavedashes (which you didn't seem to need/use that much, but they are still useful), you float cancels, L-cancels, and just general movement are all fine-tuned. I'm in a rush, but hopefully that helps you some. And perhaps other Peaches can help you, too (I know DoH has very good ICs experience from Wobbles, iirc)
These are two posts about control that MacD was kinda talking about. At the very least, they should help you put things into perspective.
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12129728&postcount=4626
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=9997185&postcount=1979
A few ICs things:
-You want to generally be careful when you are above them. ICs have nice moves above them (utilt, uair, usmash, fsmash to a degree) that really hurt. You can either space your float so that you are low to the ground, or be less direct with it.
-In relation to that, be very careful about how you land. I've noticed that ICs have good tools for punishing landings, cause they have a quick, long WD and poweful ground moves. I did see you get punished for that (3:40 is a good example).
-Recover high against them. It sounds like it contradicts what I said earlier about being above them, but they have a fairly good edge guard against her if she goes for the ledge. You don't want to risk eating fsmashes/ice blocks/dtilts.
-Just make sure that whenever you have them separated, kill Nana first. You seemed to do that well enough, though.
As a sidenote: You use usmash very well, and I like what you're trying. The most important thing, though, is control. Make sure your wavedashes (which you didn't seem to need/use that much, but they are still useful), you float cancels, L-cancels, and just general movement are all fine-tuned. I'm in a rush, but hopefully that helps you some. And perhaps other Peaches can help you, too (I know DoH has very good ICs experience from Wobbles, iirc)
N.A.G.A.C.E
Smash Champion
ok thanks for the answer. i figured that might be the case which is fine, i am more then willing to pay a few bucks to crash somewhere
Cia
das kwl
unknown522
Some guy
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Huh? No, that was pretty much it. Only you did it as an approach whereas I was talking about it used defensively or for standard zoning. But no that was the thing.Evidence of the turnip drop in shield thing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__VnEc1ImmI @ 1:18 - 1:22
I thoguht this was pretty cool until I realised KK wasn't referring to anything like this at all, FAIL
VA
Smash Hero
Right yeah, it's actually a solid punish from out of your own shield when an attack with a long enough animation has been blocked.
InterimOfZeal
Smash Champion
Critique my peach, hos!
VA
Smash Hero
OK I'll give it a shot. I don't usually do this...
I only watched one match and a half but here's what I've got:
My main critique: Make the most of your hits. This match up is about landing one hit and killing fox, you really can't afford to be letting him out on 20% with a fthrow on FD. You seem to understand what you're doing with Peach and move around the stage with purpose, but you were lacking the consistency needed to really hurt a high skilled opponent. I don't really know what to suggest, but that needs work.
Other comments: You rely heavily on WD back zoning from the edges of the stage. I know Hack from Sweden who used to main Peach also did this so I'm sure it's legit. I'd like to see you WD oos shield more, use your shield more and take to the air to use her Fair for zoning.
Positive note: You really know what you're doing, I like how you followed on platforms, controlled the stage and used the hitboxes Peach has. I could see your aims and you delivered them well for the most part. Congrats, keep working on your Peach.
The Irish Mafia
Banned via Administration
got 2nd at a local to KDJ
i was on ****ing fire
i was on ****ing fire
N.A.G.A.C.E
Smash Champion
good **** mafia
Palpi
Smash Hero
Now beat KDJ next time
Good **** though, I can't wait to play you are Apex. This time we will actually play cause I won't be amazingly fake.
I am excited to see how KDJ does at apex.
Good **** though, I can't wait to play you are Apex. This time we will actually play cause I won't be amazingly fake.
I am excited to see how KDJ does at apex.
Silly Kyle
Smash Champion
Good ****, Mafia! <3
---------------------------------
I'm changing my name to Salty Kyle after this set from yesterday's tournament:
Silly Kyle vs. Tai
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ooksL-Ama4&list=UU1_5V98z_aGD-W5ZQivgCsw&index=1&feature=plcp
Great commentary from Taj and drunken Wobbles!!
It was also a really good set too, imo.
You can also hear me rage towards the end of the set. I ended up throwing my controller... gotta work on my AZ Anger. I get too fangry sometimes.
Tai ended up winning the tournament, but I felt so close to beating him finally after getting decimated by his Marth multiple times in the past.
Critique would be appreciated. <3
---------------------------------
I'm changing my name to Salty Kyle after this set from yesterday's tournament:
Silly Kyle
vs. Tai http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ooksL-Ama4&list=UU1_5V98z_aGD-W5ZQivgCsw&index=1&feature=plcp
Great commentary from Taj and drunken Wobbles!!
It was also a really good set too, imo.
You can also hear me rage towards the end of the set. I ended up throwing my controller... gotta work on my AZ Anger. I get too fangry sometimes.
Tai ended up winning the tournament, but I felt so close to beating him finally after getting decimated by his Marth multiple times in the past.
Critique would be appreciated. <3
Wake
Smash Master
DoH, I saw your set with HBK, and the ending made me sad .
.It was kinda funny too though, not gonna lie.
InterimOfZeal
Smash Champion
First off
ZAPPA! YESSSSS!
That aside, thanks for the help. WD back>dtilt or fsmash gives you insane amounts of pullback. A Fox that was just about to nair you suddenly finds himself popped into the air/off the stage.
Sticking to Fox is something that's hard for me. I've been playing LoL lately, so I'm used to getting in, doing quick damage, and then resetting my spacing. Kinda ****s with my Melee game, esp vs space animals. WD OoS is something I've almost completely forgotten about (outside of punishing marth fsmash) since I started, but I'll work on getting back into that habit.
I didn't even start using Fair as a zoning tool until I saw Armada vs Falcos. I'm starting to work it in more.
Anyway, thanks for the critiques. Hopefully, I can locate a VCR this week and get some matches recorded/uploaded.
VA
Smash Hero
not funny it made me madDoH, I saw your set with HBK, and the ending made me sad
It was kinda funny too though, not gonna lie.
@InterimOfZeal
I saw what you were doing with the WD back dtilts, I meant try to mix in baits with those awkward float heights and FC fair. Anyway, good luck with getting better.
The Irish Mafia
Banned via Administration
Nagace: <3
Palpi: Looking forward to it :3 I looked for you for like 5 seconds at rom but then decided to play with people. I could only touch KDJ when I went falcon, LOL. He beat my peach game 1 and 2 of WF's, so i busted out douglas and went stadium. I got a 2 stock lead and then he tried to KDJ challenge me (his one stock to your 4) but I wasn't having it. He pooped on my falcon in GF's, though He could take apex by storm as long as he doesn't **** around. He knows how much leeway he has when it comes to sandbagging at locals. Meanwhile, MMing around at nationals is like mugging people in new york, but half of them are UFC fighters.
SK: I saw that set and it made me sad. I feel like if you position your dash attacks a bit better, you'd be golden. I also see you dsmash somewhat emotionally a lot, and that's really the main thing i see hindering you. You def played pretty well, though. I know you could've done it. Also, I skimmed you vs ruby. Asides from the SD's and whatnot, would you like some critique on that?
the biggest problem i've seen in your matches is as soon as an opening for a dash attack appears, you blow your advantage by diving for it, whether or not it's been effective in the past or not. I saw you dash attack FAR too many shields when at slight advantage. Every time you began your positioning game with them on defense, all they really had to do was wait for the dash attack or roll in from the dsmash. Yes, these forms of pressure can be, and normally are, effective. Were they in your sets? Nope. You need to commit to approaching with grab, because while you did mix up into it, you did not do it enough to force them to adapt. Force them to adapt. :3
Palpi: Looking forward to it :3 I looked for you for like 5 seconds at rom but then decided to play with people. I could only touch KDJ when I went falcon, LOL. He beat my peach game 1 and 2 of WF's, so i busted out douglas and went stadium. I got a 2 stock lead and then he tried to KDJ challenge me (his one stock to your 4) but I wasn't having it. He pooped on my falcon in GF's, though
He could take apex by storm as long as he doesn't **** around. He knows how much leeway he has when it comes to sandbagging at locals. Meanwhile, MMing around at nationals is like mugging people in new york, but half of them are UFC fighters.SK: I saw that set and it made me sad. I feel like if you position your dash attacks a bit better, you'd be golden. I also see you dsmash somewhat emotionally a lot, and that's really the main thing i see hindering you. You def played pretty well, though. I know you could've done it. Also, I skimmed you vs ruby. Asides from the SD's and whatnot, would you like some critique on that?
the biggest problem i've seen in your matches is as soon as an opening for a dash attack appears, you blow your advantage by diving for it, whether or not it's been effective in the past or not. I saw you dash attack FAR too many shields when at slight advantage. Every time you began your positioning game with them on defense, all they really had to do was wait for the dash attack or roll in from the dsmash. Yes, these forms of pressure can be, and normally are, effective. Were they in your sets? Nope. You need to commit to approaching with grab, because while you did mix up into it, you did not do it enough to force them to adapt. Force them to adapt. :3
Silly Kyle
Smash Champion
It definitely made me sad too. Well... mostly angry. Haha.
I will work on positioning my dash attacks better and I think it would be a good idea if I would grab sometimes instead. Too many times I would hit shield and get punished. Whether it was vs. Falco or Marth, it sucks to get grabbed or combo'd because of a missed opportunity.
I've been told that I downsmash too much and it's a bad habit I really need to break. Although, vs. Marth, I felt like it was effective in poking his shield. However, I should try to use it less and find a better option.
Against Rubyiris, obviously I wasn't playing my best. No johns, but I was practically in a food coma after not eating all day and then having a big Chipotle burrito right before my match with him. My Peach felt really lethargic and stupid. Once I digested my food, I definitely felt better and more energetic later on in the tournament, like when I fought Tai. The advice helps though, Ruby and I have been going back and forth in tournament lately.
Overall, I just want to be consistent. For some reason I've been SD'ing way too often, so I am trying to work on having better control of Peach. I still feel like I'm impoving, so I'm very happy about that. I think my Peach is looking a lot sexier too I'm also really happy that a Marth mained moved to my city so I can finally get the practice I need to beat Tai and Taj someday soon! xD
I will work on positioning my dash attacks better and I think it would be a good idea if I would grab sometimes instead. Too many times I would hit shield and get punished. Whether it was vs. Falco or Marth, it sucks to get grabbed or combo'd because of a missed opportunity.
I've been told that I downsmash too much and it's a bad habit I really need to break. Although, vs. Marth, I felt like it was effective in poking his shield. However, I should try to use it less and find a better option.
Against Rubyiris, obviously I wasn't playing my best. No johns, but I was practically in a food coma after not eating all day and then having a big Chipotle burrito right before my match with him. My Peach felt really lethargic and stupid. Once I digested my food, I definitely felt better and more energetic later on in the tournament, like when I fought Tai. The advice helps though, Ruby and I have been going back and forth in tournament lately.
Overall, I just want to be consistent. For some reason I've been SD'ing way too often, so I am trying to work on having better control of Peach. I still feel like I'm impoving, so I'm very happy about that. I think my Peach is looking a lot sexier too
I'm also really happy that a Marth mained moved to my city so I can finally get the practice I need to beat Tai and Taj someday soon! xD
The Irish Mafia
Banned via Administration
I think you used wd back to dash attack the same way I do. Try to use that to poke at marths zone. remember, if he's within range, his options are to get hit or to shield. he cannot trade, retreat, or jump away if you space it properly. Your dsmashes were good vs TAI game 1, the majority connected and stabbed. Try to remove the excess and make them more descision based as oppose to habitual.
All I really feel like saying about you vs Ruby is you need to not see platform camping as a disadvantage you need to overcome. it puts him in a situation to poke, but peach can always poke at falco. As long as you sat under platforms you coulda made his life hell. Also, autocancel umbrella is good. Play around with it vs platform camping. Also, i felt like you got frustrated and that caused you to jump for openings that weren't there. More grabbing, defintiely. That will help you overcome shield-heavy games, which i think gave you trouble.
About consistency, OMG I KNOW. Like, i hate getting 5th at one local, 2nd at the next. I need to figure out some sort of routine to make sure I'm playing my best every tournament.
All I really feel like saying about you vs Ruby is you need to not see platform camping as a disadvantage you need to overcome. it puts him in a situation to poke, but peach can always poke at falco. As long as you sat under platforms you coulda made his life hell. Also, autocancel umbrella is good. Play around with it vs platform camping. Also, i felt like you got frustrated and that caused you to jump for openings that weren't there. More grabbing, defintiely. That will help you overcome shield-heavy games, which i think gave you trouble.
About consistency, OMG I KNOW. Like, i hate getting 5th at one local, 2nd at the next. I need to figure out some sort of routine to make sure I'm playing my best every tournament.
Silly Kyle
Smash Champion
Yeah, I got 5th at this last tournament. Before that, I got 2nd . It totally sucks. Haha
Brb got some habits to break lulz
Brb got some habits to break lulz
idea
Smash Master
we have to money match sometime. to determine once and for all...who is the silliest kyle.Yeah, I got 5th at this last tournament. Before that, I got 2nd . It totally sucks. Haha
Brb got some habits to break lulz
Wake
Smash Master
Obviously the one with the name "Silly Kyle" must be the silliest.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
But wouldn't it be silly for the silliest Kyle to not include "silly" in their name?
Wake
Smash Master
Oh god you're right...
InterimOfZeal
Smash Champion
InterimOfZeal
Smash Champion
Sticky-walk dash attack is a nice little trick, btdubz. :D
The Irish Mafia
Banned via Administration
I remember reading XIF's post about that. IMO peaches dash is too short for it to really throw off anyone's timing that much, or to do anything wd back/in place to dash attack wouldn't do. Still, why not provide yourself with options lol
DoH
meleeitonme.tumblr.com
Fortress | Sveet
▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
I'd like to see M2K&DoH vs Tec0&Vanz
Wake
Smash Master
Oooo that sounds cool. Make it happen at Apex!
Cia
das kwl
N.A.G.A.C.E
Smash Champion
idk why i posted this in the joke thread but...
would the better peach players be up for a peach training session at apex? i think it should be done
would the better peach players be up for a peach training session at apex? i think it should be done
Wake
Smash Master
That would be cool.
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2011
- Messages
- 5,493
*sigh* I do want to meet Peaches that are going to Apex. I'll keep it in mind while I'm killing myself over how I'm going to get there.
N.A.G.A.C.E
Smash Champion
shrouded i also atm have no idea how i am going to get their, but one way or another i am going, nothing is going to stop me