VaNz Stuff.. about Peach (Tactical Discussion)

[ShroudedOne]

hey everyone,

i was hoping you could give me some advice from this video. i get ***** and read so hard, and when my opponent started waiting more i got a bit ancy and started panicking and didn't know what to do...help please!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1NyqtzhOEc

It looks a lot of it may just be due to nerves, as I watch it. In any case...

You absolutely have to SDI Fox's shines. Absolutely.

Okay, something I remember noticing the first time around that kind of bugged me. Whenever you got a launcher (like at 2:15 or 4:15) you would follow up with a uair. Watch Fox's percent. I'd probably recommend a nair above 80. Not so much because it would kill him, but because he'd be too far away from you after a uair for you to do anything anyways. Besides, a good nair will set up for an edge guard.

A very important thing for Peach to do against Fox is to create a wall of priority, and stifle his options. Stop his momentum. I think you did okay there, you just need more confidence in your decisions (nerves, perhaps?)

You mentioned this. He started waiting. And you started running after him, which is rarely a good thing to do. You were dash attacking too many shields (especially in the second match). Actually, you were just running into his shield a lot, and getting punished for it.

That's all I noticed, anyways. I hope this helps. But it seems like the big problem was mental. =\

 

[crismas]

0:35 that was a free fairrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

 

[DoH]

DoH's motto: never take a gay man to rainbow cruise

 

[ShroudedOne]

So...you mean Fox...

 

[Wake]

John allow me to push you off that cliff where you belong!

So I have a small issue with stage banning/counterpicking. I dont know if its like this out on WC or EC or not, but in most Midwest tourneys Rainbow Cruise is legal. Most people I fight against will CP that stage against me, and they will win 90% of the time. Should I ban it and go with pokemon stadium/Yoshi's instead? (I dont think Peach is even that bad on Yoshi's) Or should I let them go Cruise and try harder?

What is everyone's opinion on this level for Peach? Is it any good for her or not? I currently don't think so.

Try harder... like Pikachu!

DoH's motto: never take a gay man to rainbow cruise

I do like Rainbow Cruise...

 

[Quaz]

Haha, well its true that it is RAINBOW CRUISE

 

[ShroudedOne]

Haha, well its true that it is RAINBOW CRUISE

=D That made me happy.

So. Guys. Our character kinda sucks against camping (it's probably more the case that I suck against camping). If I have things recorded, I'll post some vids for advice. But the Links, Falco, and Falcon/Jiggs sometimes are really annoying when they don't want to approach.

But I will defeat it. I don't want to be a "camping is really gay" person.

PS: Had a 10:26 match with a Jiggly on Pokemon Stadium that camped me really well.

 

[Quaz]

When its a slow character like Puff or Peach, I'll just spam turnips to either get them to approach me, or approach them and hopefully get some sort of opening.

I don't really like fighting campy puffs with Peach though, its soo stressful =(

 

[Wake]

Haha, well its true that it is RAINBOW CRUISE

Quaz... you are cool. That is all.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Peach is fine on Rainbow Cruise against not-Fox/Falcon/Falco/Y.Link/Pikachu afaik.

I'm not sure I'd bother to CP it against Sheik or the characters that get a huge KO power buff or abuse the platform style movement super hard. Just because I think if you're gonna pick a silly level, Brinstar is better anyway. And if she has some pretty strong neutrals in most MUs so I'd probably just go with those. But I don't see it being explicitly awful against anyone beyond the ones I set aside.

Being able to hold position near the walls and tech > down smash and other shenanigans keep it from being explicitly awful. She also can float across the platforms in a lot of cases. I think there's also more time to pull turnips in general, so keeping a head and trolling them with priority and turnips seems like a reasonable plan.

I dunno. The trick to Cruise with most characters is to stay ahead on the track so you can force them to attack into you, or else they hit the blastzones. I think as long as you're not fighting Falcon, Fox, Falco and some character-specific nuisances, it's a decent level.

 

[Quaz]

That's the thing, people tend to use their pocket fox and make it pretty rough.

 

[Rosedemon]

Ugh, basic *****es over here stealing the Super Rainboyz font shenanigans.

 

[ShroudedOne]

So, when I throw a turnip at someone (any character, really, so I realize that to an extent, this depends on the MU). Let's say Marth or Ganon (or maybe Puff). I know that I'm supposed to look at how they react to my turnip throws. Are there different kinds of throw I should try? And what reactions from them should I be looking for? For example, if I know that they are shielding my turnips, could I get a grab, maybe? I really have no idea how that works.

Also, I hate when I try to nair OoS and end up catching a turnip. :\

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

^ and There's a very strong chance that I have her a bit too high. But the way I see it, Peach just has so much going for her, I never really thought about it until I realized I'd never want to be up against a Peach who will control every move you make on the stage. It's a combination of her float cancels and turnips. Turnips create openings unlike any other move in the game. (Credit goes to Veril for helping me realize this) Before a turnip even lands on it's target, Peach will be in a Neutral position. This means that before you even experience knockback, Peach will be ready to hit with something else. Naturally when you see a turnip heading for you, your instincts are to catch it, dodge, shield it, or just hit it. Either way, Peach was able to gauge a reaction from you and can follow up with an Aerial, Dash attach, grab, or w.e combo starter you can think of. However you respond, Peach comes out ahead because she forces you to create lag for yourself. That's a very powerful ability to have that I think I've just ignored for too long.

this is from the tier list thread

We need to talk more about this, what actions our opponents make and what we can do to them to punish after seeing it.

Is peach in the neutral position no matter where u throw the turnip or should peach be in the air when she throws.

What distance is best for this? is it better for a weak throw so u are close?

I really want some more info on this so i can explore it and understand it better.

Also i am still having trouble with landing the fc fair to grab. i swear i do it as fast as i can but i still get hit before i get the grab, is there any trick to getting better at this?

 

[Veril]

they are shielding my turnips, could I get a grab, maybe? I really have no idea how that works.

yes if it hits the shield after you are out of lag. Or its a dot/stitch.

Turnips are amazing

 

[MacD]

Ugh, basic *****es over here stealing the Super Rainboyz font shenanigans.

annoying right?

 

[Rosedemon]

annoying right?

best. sig. ever.

 

[MacD]

wtf, new aim sucks and ruined my format

gonna have to copy paste yours when i get back from class

 

[john!]

hey vanz, what can you remember from your matches with frootloop and orly? i mean like their strategies, their habits, what you did to counter them, etc. they are the two players from my region that i always seem to barely lose to.

 

[xXx-NoobKing-xXx]

nt vanz. Cali ***'n good.

 

[BladeWise]

http://www.twitch.tv/peefsmash/b/298138525

go to 26:26
Vanz too good.

One thing I would suggest, I was able to steal S2J's jump a couple times at G2 with upthrow -> Fair.
Also, there were a couple times when Dthrow -> knee wouldn't have killed, if you had just DI'd in on the throw more and just taken the hit instead of trying to escape, ie first KO on Dreamland.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Okay.

How do you guys deal with feeling discouraged with this character? Sometimes I feel like she just doesn't cut it in some places, or I'm just not seeing something that everyone else is. People always complain about how cheap and easy to use, but she really isn't that easy once you play people who aren't casuals. There will even be strings of matches where I try to think in different ways, and still end up failing with her. I don't want this to be a "our character's so bad, she sucks" post, cause she's amazing, but she just feels so bad sometimes.

tl;dr: I get really frustrated with this ***** sometimes.

 

[EPsilon933]

I've tried converting to Marth, Fox, and Sheik, but it failed. Peach would never fail me

Smash players whine all the time. It's normal. You'll get used to it

 

[ShroudedOne]

It's not even so much as people whining (although that gets annoying). It's more like...I need a new perspective on her or something, cause the way I've been playing her (apparently too straight-forward) just isn't cutting it anymore. I try to take different approaches and things, but it feels like there aren't that many different avenues to her.

Maybe take a break from her? Or maybe quit her altogether?

 

[PandaCobo]

I went thru the same thing. I just starting playing around with other characters. I finally realized that peachs play style is what is best for me. So maybe try that. It took a couple weeks for me to realize that i love peach.

 

[thesage]

I really hate that a lot of people here whine because of my Peach.

 

[john!]

the reason people whine about peach is because humans fear and hate what they don't understand. the majority of smash players are too stupid to play a character like peach that doesn't spam tech skill to win. improving with peach takes more than just tech skill practice, so they fail with her and go back to fox and falco, who are extremely easy to improve with mindless drilling. then when they get outplayed by a peach, they don't see a lot of tech skill and call her cheap. i'd expect nothing less from a community largely populated by teenagers.

 

[crush]

the reason people whine about peach is because humans fear and hate what they don't understand. the majority of smash players are too stupid to play a character like peach that doesn't spam tech skill to win. improving with peach takes more than just tech skill practice, so they fail with her and go back to fox and falco, who are extremely easy to improve with mindless drilling. then when they get outplayed by a peach, they don't see a lot of tech skill and call her cheap. i'd expect nothing less from a community largely populated by teenagers.

I switched from fox/falco to marth and started doing better, and im 12

 

[john!]

I switched from fox/falco to martn and started doing better, and im 12

keep practicing

 

[Cia]

hey vanz, what can you remember from your matches with frootloop and orly? i mean like their strategies, their habits, what you did to counter them, etc. they are the two players from my region that i always seem to barely lose to.

I really don't remember doing anything out of the ordinary vs FrootLoop. My standard combos and reads just worked. He seemed to understand the Peach match up so I just chose my moments carefully and punished any slip ups. Vs ORLY.. He just seemed like he didn't take me srsly at all. I remember him aerial approaching alot so I just countered with Dash attack.

http://www.twitch.tv/peefsmash/b/298138525

go to 26:26
Vanz too good.

One thing I would suggest, I was able to steal S2J's jump a couple times at G2 with upthrow -> Fair.
Also, there were a couple times when Dthrow -> knee wouldn't have killed, if you had just DI'd in on the throw more and just taken the hit instead of trying to escape, ie first KO on Dreamland.

agreed 100% There are so many things I wish I could do over. But I'm still happy with the way things turned out.

thanks everyone for the congrats and stuff. Felt good to be at tournament again.

 

[crismas]

Vs ORLY.. He just seemed like he didn't take me srsly at all.

...Wut?? lol

 

[crush]

...Wut?? lol

YA RLY

 

[john!]

maybe vanz thinks that because orly tends to miss easy combos like dthrow -> aerial for no reason lol

he's still good though

 

[Cia]

The time we were playing, he just joked around and just seemed like he was putting on a show. Then I taunted him. And then **** got real.. lol

 

[john!]

oh. he always does that too

 

[idea]

lol vanz, decided to come check out this thread after talking to you

i played orly in i think pools at sweet IV, he was laughing and stuff then too. honestly, i think he just has a lot of fun playing anyone.

i think i know why people complain about peach being "cheap" or whatever, but i don't wanna post a whole essay on it. (i just figure it's mostly the same as the reasons for hating jiggs)

 

[BladeWise]

That tournament was so fun to watch.

(mostly posting cuz my avi is tight)

 

[Quaz]

ORLY Is meh buddy, he always has fun with the game.

Vanz is it true that you live in Ohio now? O_O

 

[unknown522]

Shoutout to Vanz taking 3rd at the Big House!

It's too bad you didn't win though

 

[Cia]

lol vanz, decided to come check out this thread after talking to you

i played orly in i think pools at sweet IV, he was laughing and stuff then too. honestly, i think he just has a lot of fun playing anyone.

i think i know why people complain about peach being "cheap" or whatever, but i don't wanna post a whole essay on it. (i just figure it's mostly the same as the reasons for hating jiggs)

Yep. That's pretty much it. Punishment game too goodz XD

That tournament was so fun to watch.

(mostly posting cuz my avi is tight)

Like.

ORLY Is meh buddy, he always has fun with the game.

Vanz is it true that you live in Ohio now? O_O

Yep. For almost 7 months now. Get with the times :D

Shoutout to Vanz taking 3rd at the Big House!

It's too bad you didn't win though

Thanks man. I'm incredibly shocked at that myself. But I'll take it