VaNz Stuff.. about Peach (Tactical Discussion)

[ShroudedOne]

I feel like approaching Jigglypuff and Sheik with a floating dair > nair is very good, but someone will need to back me up on that. I have been able to get away with it, though. As for tips...I kind of just throw it in places, where I feel it will work. I guess you have to have a feel for it? (But that doesn't really help...)

 

[crismas]

Wouldn't it be better to just approach with nair (either fc or regular)? Less risk more guarenteed... the notion of approaching with anything I can get punished for either ftilt or fair (sheik) or bair from jiggs scares the hell out of me. I think it's good though if you're in close range of them though and they're well beneath you/too late to react.

 

[ShroudedOne]

I think fair would be easier for Jiggs to punish than dair, but as for Sheik, I can completely see that. It's a good idea if they're in shield, too (float dair) cause it shield pokes well, I've noticed.

 

[john!]

dair is okay, but nair is my move of choice vs. jigglypuff. dancing around on the ground and popping up with an occasional nair is kind of hard for her to deal with if you do it right.

other moves work too obviously, but puff is usually too slippery for laggy moves like fair and dair to work

 

[crismas]

Honestly, I've never felt like there are enough chances during a match vs. Jiggs to want to start dairing (or approaching this way). I feel like nair is the safest way to go in (especially on a small stage like Yoshi's). The way Jiggs approaches (at least ones I've ever played) always go in knowing that a Peach is going to float toward them (that's pretty free for Jiggs) so if I'm going to float I'm going to float with something like nair which I'm less likely to get punished for. But most of the time though I stay grounded and then just nair oos or just jump nair.

 

[Get Low]

Dair > Nair is still good though if you somehow end up above Jigglypuff and they're jumping up after you. Otherwise, I only use Dair > Nair sparingly when I feel like I need to switch up my approaches.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

don't use it to beat things, unless you're you'll time it so the first hit connects. The first hit will beat both fox and falco's up b's, and it's good for catching their side b's too. I also like it vs luigi. He can only outprioritize it with his usmash, or a veeeery precise (and moving) utilt. There's a local peach/fox main, Solar, who does a lot of fc dair to dsmash on people's shields. I don't agree with all the things he does, but i thought that was pretty clever.

 

[Winston]

If I remember correctly dair sucks vs Luigi cause he can SDI it up and then nair you before you recover

 

[The Irish Mafia]

nah you can nair before he can, as far as I know. It did me many favors in my set vs vudujin.

 

[Get Low]

nah you can nair before he can, as far as I know. It did me many favors in my set vs vudujin.

Did you win the set? Vudujin is hella good. o.O

 

[The Irish Mafia]

@Get Low
yes :3
yes i did

 

[Get Low]

@Get Low
yes :3
yes i did

I love that song, haha. Everyone starts singing it when I tell them that that's my tag.
And congratulations on beating him. He three stocked me twice when I had a set with him. >.<
But it was my first time ever playing a Luigi so I didnt really know what to do.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

hey so i was with some friends the other day, and one of them recently picked up fox. he has become a very technical fox very quickly. now i was there winning with my peach and some of my friends started *****ing that peach is annoying to play against and other things like that. then i point out that most the people we play with play higher tier people then I do, and the fox guy was right next to me so i point him out. the person complaining defends his statement with saying how hard it is to play fox and how many buttons the guy has to hit to do the shine stuff. i say peach is not as easy as she looks and takes skill to be good with her. How would u people respond to someone who is saying peach does not take skill? b/c i do believe to be good with peach takes a lot of skill i just find it hard to prove it to someone who is so impressed with the speed of fox's tricks.

on a unrelated note I need some help in my marth match-up. what is the best way to punish f-smashes on the shield/and missed f-smashes? Also what do u do when he is shffling fairs at u, and how should i be di-ing his throws? more then once i have been thrown then tippered and died at a stupidly low % so should i try to di into him when he throws me to avoid the tipper or can i di away enough to not get hit.

Also how do u deal with a fox that never stops moving? I am having some trouble stopping a friends of mines fox when he kinda just spams me from a distance so i have to approach then he has very good movement so b4 i know it he can be on me. this makes any small mistake i make a big deal.

Now to complete my huge wall of text. i was thinking about how helpful it would be if really good/analytical players would take videos of people playing and break them down to show what was done well by the peach and why stuff worked. (and i mean take existing videos like armada or macd vs someone and show why what they did worked or why they did it) I feel this could really help peach players get better in tough match-ups

 

[crismas]

I'm up for some reason and I don't want to be... -_o

imo best way to punish a missed fsmash is one of the following:

-wavedash oos grab/dsmash
-fc nair oos
-fc fair

I more or less chose based off percentage. I've been using fc fair lately. When they hit the shield I see there's enough time to go in and whack them.

Shffl fairs? CC dsmash.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

i meant when u r at to high of dmg to cc the fairs, but i now thinking about it have so little marth experience i dont think i have thought about cc the fairs at lower dmg.

and can u really get a fair in after a f-smash on the shield. i wouldn't think there is enough time but ive been wrong about this stuff b4

 

[Wake]

People just like to complain when they lose.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

People just like to complain when they lose.

yea thats true. but i would just like something better to say then she is harder to play then she looks. but its hard to get your point across when next to u is someone doing fox techs. they r fast and flashy

 

[Wake]

Peach is worse than Fox. I think everyone has a difficult time winning in this game because it's just hard to win . If he doesn't believe that, then challenge him to use Peach. (and honestly flashy Fox tricks are really not that hard to do. Pick up Fox for a bit and see for yourself.)

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

i just have a problem dealing with how fast fox is able to close the gap when i am approaching him. I am not sure what to do about this.

Also the person who is complaining about me/my peach recognizes that i am a skilled and better player then him, but he just thinks the more buttons u have to press in a short amount of time to be successful is somehow more of a skill then playing peach. he even asked me to count how many buttons i had to press to fc d-smash and compare it to someone doing very fast shines. Of course he could of just been upset b/c i beat him every time we play .

Also i just want to point out Ive never lost to this technical fox i am talking about, but to be fair its still a pretty new fox so i am sure he will get better playing him. There is another guy i play against that I go pretty even with. His fox is what gives me the most trouble. he camps me forces me to approach until i am getting kinda close to him then he pounces on me. i have trouble dealing with that strategy.

 

[john!]

fox players, dude...

 

[ShroudedOne]

@N.A.G.A.C.E: Peach is certainly harder to use than it looks. There are Fox players who try using Peach and essentially go, "Wtf? I can't use her!" You should tell him that button presses aren't indicative of difficulty to play, and that he should also consider movement/approach options. Fox generally has more options that Peach, and so in some sense, is easier to use than her. I would just shrug it off though, if you're maining Peach, you are going to catch SO MUCH BS for using her. Everyone here can attest to that. =P

I like your idea about analyzing top player vids. I wish someone would be willing to do that though. Hey, Armada, maybe you'd like to talk about one of your own videos? =)

Campy Foxes...if Fox is just standing at one edge, SHDL'ing and stuff, I've found that a good way to handle it is to float close to him, high enough where upsmash/lasers won't reach you, but a place where you can threaten him with FC fair. It's similar to how Peach deals with Falco, by floating over lasers, but you don't want to attack Fox. You just want to make him feel unsafe.

Say you're on FD. You want to float at probably...2/3rds of the stage length, with Fox being in the smaller portion. You're closing off his space, and yet you aren't "approaching" in the traditional sense. Now Fox has to reconsider his lasers, because a good fair will put him in a bad position, and possibly lead to an edge guard. You can try dash forward > WD also, to bait him into going after you.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

^Movement and approach options good idea. its weird its like i know the reasons peach is hard to play but i have trouble explaining them to others.

Also this is not the first time ive caught some bs for playing peach but i was just looking for something better to say in response. haters=going to hate

Now for the fox thing I do most of what u say my problem is he comes in on me with a dair or nair while i am floating. But i have never been in the mind set of waiting for him to attack first and then punishing. Most of the time i am looking to hit a fc aerial on him. so next time i am going to try to go in with the mindset to try to make him feel unsafe and force him to make a move first.

edit: o and I also wish some top peach player would analyze vids, but that is a lot of extra work to ask someone to do. But maybe if someone has free time they would be willing to do this to help out the peach community.

 

[Wake]

Just got 2nd at a local. Lost to Chexr twice. Once in winner's bracket and once in GFs.

 

[Quaz]

at low %s I DI away from marth fthrow, especially when by the ledge. You may take a tipper to the face, but just prepare yourself to DI up and you'll be fine. (low % tippers are better than getting dair'd out of fthrow off the stage)

 

[Wake]

Yeah that's true... I hate his dair... unless I'm using Marth.

 

[ShroudedOne]

So...Marth is extremely difficult. I'm thinking of having another character for him. =P But I don't want to do this...

 

[baka4moé]

u know, even though im not gay, and have nothing against homosexuals, it really annoys me when people play me and are like man peach is so gay dsmash is so gay you play so gay and stupid. like wtf.

 

[ShroudedOne]

It's always good to remember that the people who whine and moan and complain about Peach (the ones who do so seriously, because it's important to remember that people say that stuff in jest, too, baka) are the ones who aren't going to get any better, while you do. (Sure, self-centered, but whining gets you nowhere, really).

 

[Get Low]

So...Marth is extremely difficult. I'm thinking of having another character for him. =P But I don't want to do this...

I've considered using Sheik against Marth quite a few times, but at the same time I don't want to because I want to improve on the Peach/Marth matchup and be able to win it.

 

[baka4moé]

It's always good to remember that the people who whine and moan and complain about Peach (the ones who do so seriously, because it's important to remember that people say that stuff in jest, too, baka) are the ones who aren't going to get any better, while you do. (Sure, self-centered, but whining gets you nowhere, really).

the worst part is that guy was beating me LOL which made the complaining make less sense..

so, to stay on topic, sheik. i was playing a good sheik the yesterday and he played really campy and unfun. when i was far away he'd charge needles. if i approached from the ground he'd throw needles, if i floated he'd just fair me; this sucked on fd. when there were platforms, he'd just run away until i made an opening on myself. any advice on how to approach a campy sheik? kirbykaze? (not saying ur campy, but ur a good sheik who dabbles with peach, so yeah..)

 

[thesage]

Use more turnips and f-smash and when you do land a hit, make sure it counts.

 

[KirbyKaze]

baka, you weren't playing joejoe, were you?

Because that's just about word for word what I told him to do in that MU when he asked me for advice in it a week or two ago.

edit:

I'm a campy bitch so I take no offense. It's fine.

 

[VA]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SplYhTaoQR8

this guy (trif) is the 3rd best in Spain. He's in my city at the moment learning english and we've recorded a whole bunch of matches. I really like his peach.

EDIT: This is his youtube debut

 

[baka4moé]

baka, you weren't playing joejoe, were you?

Because that's just about word for word what I told him to do in that MU when he asked me for advice in it a week or two ago.

edit:

I'm a campy bitch so I take no offense. It's fine.

wait really? LOL nah it was sherigami, dunno if u've heard of him (lookslikepit is his swf tag); i haven't played joejoe in a while.

so yeah, how to counteract that?

thanks for the input btw sage

 

[KirbyKaze]

Beating ground needles? I'm not really sure, because I'm pretty gay at the needles strat on FD. I guess just play spacing games. See if you can get Sheik to throw the needles at you; jump over them and float > fair > happy times. I'd imagine you could also block > float / WD oos punish her at a bunch of ranges.

At the end of the day, I think you're just supposed to look for a range where she can't run in and slap you for free, but where he can't charge ground needles for free either. I'm not sure that's possible, but this game is pretty good so I think you can beat Sheik's sewing gear. I have faith.

For beating her platform stuff, I see Armada do a lot of up airs. It seems pretty good. I'm not a real fan of the platform camping strategy anymore because Peach can wait outside Sheik's approach zones and prepare herself with a veggie, and also because I tend to think Sheik's ground game is stronger in general. But this I'd need to tinker with to figure out.

Sherigami? That name rings a bell. I've probably seen him play, although the only WC Sheiks I really remember (within the past 2 years or so) are Lucien and Kira.


.

 

[Quaz]

dude Shrouded one you should keep practicing with peach. I feel she only loses to marth by a slight margin.

 

[ShroudedOne]

You think so? Cause I'm considering Jigglypuff for him (now that I know Marth doesn't **** her). And DI'ing his combos is so tricky. And his grabs...and his sword...blegh. I don't even feel like turnips solve a lot...

*shrug* I'll have to record some Marth vids, and look at them.

 

[EPsilon933]

Turnips are everything vs Marth, imo. There should always be a turnip in between you and Marth. Turnips occupy your opponent's space

Peach can trade hits amazingly well vs Marth. Don't always try to DI away

 

[john!]

peach vs. marth is definitely manageable. marth might not even be in her top 3 worst matchups, depending on who you ask. i think armada said it was his favorite matchup.

you've just gotta stay grounded and try to mess up his spacing. force him to approach with smart turnip throwing

 

[crismas]

Turnips, bait approaches, shield+oos, DI away any grabs vs. Marth. I also agree that he's not her worst mu.