VaNz Stuff.. about Peach (Tactical Discussion)

[Deleted member]

hey all,

im in some need of advice. i really feel like im plateauing lately, having trouble identifying what i need to improve on, and its been quite frustrating. lately i've been losing to a lot of falcos, so im looking for help on this matchup. thanks to anyone in advance! anything to note would be nice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6e3lkKrxrC8 (he uses falcon first game just fyi lol)

baka *****!

 

[Composeur]

If it hurts you're doing it wrong

You would think so but I can assure you there are forces in play beyond my control

 

[Strong Badam]

If it hurts you're doing it wrong

this guy knows what's up

 

[DoH]

Then your top sucks

Falco used to be my worst matchup but now I kinda like it. Learn to powershield. Also, this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wMDC-tzuzM

 

[Strong Badam]

I wish my character could powershield.

 

[crush]

I wish my character could powershield.

You are not a character.

 

[Composeur]

Then your top sucks

lol nobody believes me on this--especially other tops, of course--but I have more than the requisite experience to make this determination. I am hopeful that eventually it will get better, but I'll probably have to go vegan and I'm not there yet...

um, so I might totally be making this up, but it seems like sometimes the parasol angle (when it comes out) is slightly different, like goes further to the left/right than others. Is this true or is it just all the acid I'm constantly dropping

 

[KirbyKaze]

I like how we openly discuss gay sex in this forum.

 

[DoH]

 

[Rosedemon]

 

[Composeur]

rofl I <3 you all

 

[Veril]

Fairly substantial update to my data thread in the form of a table detailing the percentage at which most of peach's hitboxes induce tumble. It was a LOT of work. Take a look. If there are typos/mistakes let me know. Its possible I could have entered data into the wrong cell. I'll try to add another hitbox to it each week or so.

 

[ShroudedOne]

I just float high and approach with fair, nair, bair, or dair to avoid lasers. If I get hit while on the ground, I just take the hit. It's only at most 3%. If I get hit during a float, ruined

If you hit Falco, don't let him get back up on his feet. His spacing game is good because he can make your spacing game bad

I've been thinking about just taking lasers to the face, but I don't wanna do that, cause I feel like a laser = combo = death. And Falco's ground game is simply astounding.

lol i forgot to answer ur question shrouded. no, baka4moe is my original tag, back4more kinda just came about as a nickname just because some people didn't understand what baka4moe meant and thought it sounded like back4more....lol...thats really it haha

Oh, I see. It does sound like back4more. Haha.

Where do you guys find these?

And hopefully this week I'll get some vids of me getting handled by Falco, so that I can get them looked at.

 

[crush]

Ill critique them for you since im pretty good with peach.

 

[Rosedemon]

Where do you guys find these?

Mostly on tumblr

 

[DoH]

Mine are from ontd

 

[Veril]

Turnip damage and modifiers:

•base damage is the minimum you'll get with a normal throw
••Regular Turnip: 6
••"Wink": 10
••"Dot": 16
••"Stitch": 34

•Horizontal distance and velocity based bonuses.
••Mid-range bonus: 1 OR Long-range bonus: 2
••Dash tossing (ground only) bonus: 1 OR Smash tossing (ground only) bonus: 2

•Falling (dropped or up/down tossed) turnips do between 1 and base+1 damage.
••Aerial down toss results in base+1 damage without the turnip needing to accelerate.
••z-dropped turnips do not apply damage bonus for rare turnips.

•Aerial and Grounded Up Toss increase damage initially, but it decreases as the turnip loses speed.
••Lower platform height on Yoshi's: +1 damage
••Top platform height on Yoshi's: base damage
••Any higher causes the damage to decrease.
••If the turnip starts coming down, it follows the same rules as dropped turnips.

Bonuses can stack:
example1 - Up Smash Tossed "Dot" Turnip hitting an opponent close to you.
•does a base of 16 damage; +1 for being thrown up and the opponent being close; +2 for being smash thrown.
•19 damage in total.

example2 - F Smash Tossed Regular Turnip thrown from onstage hitting an opponent who is very close to the blast zone.
•6 (base damage) + 2 (smash tossed) + 2 (long-range horizontally) = 10 damage

The beamsword and Mr. Saturn work differently, I would explain how that damage is calculated but its not important ;p

 

[eet]

Good job. Id be kinda interested in the beam sword data, just cause all i do with beam swords is throw them lol.

 

[Rosedemon]

The force is not with you

 

[Veril]

Good job. Id be kinda interested in the beam sword data, just cause all i do with beam swords is throw them lol.

The beam sword cries when you do this.

Little pink luminescent tears.

You cad.

 

[ShroudedOne]

I didn't know that smash throwing inflicted more damage than regular throwing, or that speed and distance were a factor...

...I guess I'm still terrible at this game...

 

[Veril]

I didn't know that smash throwing inflicted more damage than regular throwing, or that speed and distance were a factor...

...I guess I'm still terrible at this game...

I'm not sure how exactly its calculated, it could just be that distance traveled determines speed post release if turnips accelerate horizontally. Doesn't really matter how it happens. I just wanted to list how the damage is actually determined. I'm gonna look at the tumble % change as a result of the range based damage increase for horizontal turnips.


Smash up-toss does the most damage of turnips at close range. I thought that was notable.

Oh, I didn't mention in the previous post, but only z-dropping makes falling rare turnips lose the extra damage. If you toss a turnip upwards, the damage as it comes back down increases with velocity and maxes out at base damage + 1. Z dropping always maxes out at 7 for turnips. Not planning on testing distance based damage on up-tossed falling rare turnips... god what a pain that would be.


I'm actually terrible at this game. Don't feel bad lol.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

Dot's name is actually "Theodore, Champion of Several Continents". He is my pet turnip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JXbriWhqwE
don't need advice on this one seeing as it's mostly me bodying, but hey, kid's gotta shine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_3RQfmqugo&feature=channel_video_title
Advice is very appreciated in this one. Spesifically the first couple games.

 

[standardtoaster]

Turnip damage and modifiers:

•base damage is the minimum you'll get with a normal throw
••Regular Turnip: 6
••"Wink": 10
••"Dot": 16
••"Stitch": 34

•Horizontal distance and velocity based bonuses.
••Mid-range bonus: 1 OR Long-range bonus: 2
••Dash tossing (ground only) bonus: 1 OR Smash tossing (ground only) bonus: 2

•Falling (dropped or up/down tossed) turnips do between 1 and base+1 damage.
••Aerial down toss results in base+1 damage without the turnip needing to accelerate.
••z-dropped turnips do not apply damage bonus for rare turnips.

•Aerial and Grounded Up Toss increase damage initially, but it decreases as the turnip loses speed.
••Lower platform height on Yoshi's: +1 damage
••Top platform height on Yoshi's: base damage
••Any higher causes the damage to decrease.
••If the turnip starts coming down, it follows the same rules as dropped turnips.

Bonuses can stack:
example1 - Up Smash Tossed "Dot" Turnip hitting an opponent close to you.
•does a base of 16 damage; +1 for being thrown up and the opponent being close; +2 for being smash thrown.
•19 damage in total.

example2 - F Smash Tossed Regular Turnip thrown from onstage hitting an opponent who is very close to the blast zone.
•6 (base damage) + 2 (smash tossed) + 2 (long-range horizontally) = 10 damage

The beamsword and Mr. Saturn work differently, I would explain how that damage is calculated but its not important ;p

Figure out turnip pluck chances. :3

 

[Silly Kyle]

Onett Twoson Threed Fourside
Tucson, AZ
9/17/11

Results:
1) Wobbles
2) Tai
3) Silly Kyle
4) Rubyiris
5) OkamiBW
5) Falcoty (aka Southpaw)
7) Frosty
7) Crea

I played Tai in Loser's Finals. He beat me 3-1. I am ****ty at the Marth matchup and I would really appreciate some advice. I think this set was recorded, so I will try and get that posted on here sometime soon.

I lost on FD first match, lost my counterpick to Rainbow Cruise, won my counterpick to Kongo Jungle, and then lost on Battlefield. I probably should have counterpicked Dreamland instead of RC lol. I just wasn't feeling comfortable on any of the neutrals at the moment and he banned Brinstar against me.

Also, I would like some advice and tricks you guys do against Ice Climbers. Wobbles is amazing and he's beaten pretty much every Peach. He 2-0'd me, one stock for both matches, in Swiss. I felt like I can win, especially in that matchup. I already asked him for advice and told me to downsmash less. I kinda mash the c-stick down - a buffering habit I get from playing competitively with Peach in Brawl. So I got grabbed, and Peach is not a happy camper when she gets touched by that nasty ho, Nana.

Videos:

Lol, I normally play Pink Peach, but felt like playing White, my old school color when I was an even bigger n00b than I am now.

Silly Kyle vs. Tai
Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sXdNHZj-A8
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rq9B7blY7fU

Silly Kyle vs. Rubyiris
Set 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxgv6GS1MHw (Loser's Semifinals - VENGEANCE!)
Set 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uA0ClBt6y0 (Played like **** this set, but I got revenge in loser's bracket)

Silly Kyle vs. Falcoty
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TauI3VBlRxg

 

[john!]

i'll have some vids from this weekend for you guys to critique once they get uploaded.

i realized that i have a lot of trouble at the peach ditto matchup, probably because my region has only a few good peach players. any general tips? only when i play the mirror match do i realize what a stupid cheap ***** character i chose to main...

 

[Wake]

Oh cool, I want to see some of those videos John. I was curious after IMDB. You placed higher than Quaz, which I sort of didn't expect

 

[john!]

Oh cool, I want to see some of those videos John. I was curious after IMDB. You placed higher than Quaz, which I sort of didn't expect

quaz and i have been rivals for a while lol, i outplace him most of the time in tournament, but he seems to beat me in a 1v1 match.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Peach dittoes are fun. Except for when you CC her down smash and realize that you make fun of others for doing the exact same thing. Then you feel stupid.

Vanz says to be the aggressor, and I tend to agree with that.

 

[Wake]

I think of myself as Quaz's MN Peach rival counter part thingy , but that's probably just on my end haha I'm cool with that though. I hope we can play sometime soon!

And yeah, Peach dittos are really fun.

 

[Quaz]

I've been watching a lot of Armada lately, and one thing he does that I don't see other peaches do is Comboing with weak hit bairs. They're so good.

I think of myself as Quaz's MN Peach rival counter part thingy , but that's probably just on my end haha I'm cool with that though. I hope we can play sometime soon!

And yeah, Peach dittos are really fun.

Yeah dude, I wanna say John is just a tad better than me as far as playing others go. He's beaten some pretty good players, and beats plenty of people I can't beat. Also I don't really enjoy playing serious peach dittos haha =(.

Im happy to be considered your rival Wake XP but dont over estimate me now, Im not THAT great of a player!

 

[Wake]

I've been watching a lot of Armada lately, and one thing he does that I don't see other peaches do is Comboing with weak hit bairs. They're so good.




Yeah dude, I wanna say John is just a tad better than me as far as playing others go. He's beaten some pretty good players, and beats plenty of people I can't beat. Also I don't really enjoy playing serious peach dittos haha =(.

Im happy to be considered your rival Wake XP but dont over estimate me now, Im not THAT great of a player!

Armada has just ridiculous spacing...even if we do all the same moves, he would just do them so much better... that and a lot of Peaches copy him hahaha so it would make sense that a lot of Peach players do what he does

Yeah well actually I think I'm over estimating myself for considering myself as your MN Peach counter part honestly

Also, weak bairs =

 

[The Irish Mafia]

@John, there's obv the OP MU advice, but here's just a few ideas about the ditto i felt like sharing :3
In the ditto I like to chase down a lot. I catch a lot of turnips, especially while recovering. Why waste time pulling when you can just catch theirs, you know? Also, this is going to sound awkward and unconventional, but fullhop fair ***** in the ditto. It allows you to change heights in an irregular manner to the ditto, and you can use to to eat peaches double jump because it hits high enough.
dropping fair is great, if you get caught by it a lot try challenging with fullhop or high float nair. The matchup is about space control so consider where turnips play a part there and make sure you use them. Try to keep them on the positioning disadvantage and just get simple 14 damage hits.

@Kyle: Watching you vs tai. Here's just a few things I'm noticing:
Make sure you're di-ing the fthrow correctly, being down and out. I think you ate a few unfortunate fsmashes for that. If you can avoid the tipper, marth really can't place a kill move on you, and you can **** him from the neutral. Secondly, you either did not dash attack under his aerials, or you did it in the most first grade setting possible (0:25 was kinda predictable). You need to condition marth with your dash attack, that move ***** him. Thirdly, you seemed to pull turnips at unfortunate times. Not the worst thing, but it definitely put you in some situations you didn't want to be in. Get marth above you and challenge him from below with nair. Also, consider airdodging while recovering a bit more. On top of that, I keep seeing you throw out a lot of jabs. Those aren't too helpful in this matchup, if you're in a situation where marth can grab you, your princess hands won't save you, while a dsmash might.
Just a couple thoughts :3 good luck next time.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Mafia, you're so good...and you use wedding dress Peach, as do I. It was weird watching a Peach that used down smash so sparingly. I'm trying to get into the habit of using it less, cause I tend to lean on it a bit. The times that you did bring d-smash our were very good, too. That being said, I think you could've used it a little bit more. It's an awesome move.

It looks like when he would double shine your shield, he'd jump over you with dair, and cover that space. You jumped into it a fair amount. 1:55, 2:08 and 5:02 are some examples. In general, it seems like you sometimes (not too much but often enough) jump up when Falco is right above you, and you end up taking a dair. Sometimes, it's better just to wait and react, I feel. If he's going to come down with a dair, you can shield > OoS stuff, or WD back > stuff.

But you're a really solid Peach, anyways. Good job handling Falco's BS.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

Thanks. For right now, my peach v spacies game is more about stuffing them and forcing them to do alternative approaches than the more conventional side of the matchups. Me vs noodles is basically an example of that style at work.
I think the jumps into his dair were because I played that set immediately before I played vs Matt, and I got it in my head that challenging spacie's approaches was a good call, when falco can just place a dair on her crown and she can't beat it.
I avoided using dsmash because Matt plays a very analytical game vs peach, by which i mean he does a lot of watching and adapting. He's good enough at the matchup to get around dsmash so i tried to use it sparsingly. However, I now see many situations where I shoulda used it.

 

[Rosedemon]

So I played with the black people of Norcal last night and lemme just say this: playing against ganon and doc make me feel so good about my character. You can just ***** those characters so easily.

But spacies are still stupid, and teams is amazing.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I was gonna say that Maf challenges Falco too much... too often Falco will be looming over Peach and in prime position to dair. Sadly, as good an idea as it seems to challenge it, moving out of the way or blocking > counterattack are probably better ideas.

I think you do too many FC uairs to tech chase. I feel that at super low percents it's more profitable to cover tech stand / non tech on reaction with down smash, and to dash attack the rolls. At high percents, uair is too strong to combo, so I think nair or other things are probably better.

A lot of your mistakes were technical errors. Mistiming something so its hitbox doesn't come out, not doing an aerial fast enough so you weren't able to cover as much with it as you wanted to, etc. I won't really get into which ones or where 'cuz I know you don't like that, but I generally try to trim the fat with my characters and do simply stuff to start my combos or cover options if I can. I think if you simplified your gameplay a bit you could probably find it easier to get more consistent punishes.

 

[Composeur]

Peach dittoes are fun. Except for when you CC her down smash and realize that you make fun of others for doing the exact same thing. Then you feel stupid.

LOL it's sooo true

 

[Wake]

LOL it's sooo true

Her dsmash is soo brutal in dittos... it's so funny. There's lightning and sparks coming out of it and everything. Just what in god's name is going on under that dress of hers?!

 

[john!]

i'd be able to appreciate IRL peach dittos