VaNz Stuff.. about Peach (Tactical Discussion)

[baka4moé]

i played macd today. i was doing ok at first but got my butt destroyed at the end. peach dittos are...interesting...macd teach me your ways please

also good stuff to vanz, its nice to see him playing again.

 

[ConnorTheKid]

did he peach bomber you? or at least toad? give me something here, Baka

 

[baka4moé]

lol connor i think he did toad me once haha. mccain's really good at using fair in dittos, its insane. luckily it was recorded so i can at least try to figure out how/when to use it, esp for edgeguarding..

 

[MacD]

you play dittos similarly to me but a lot more campy, which is something that will destroy me if i'm not really trying hard to play safe/smart

last game i got really pissed and was like screw this time to camp back. ergo my great success the last game

 

[baka4moé]

actually lol i hated peach dittos for the longest time, and then i remember i played you in like, 5 friendlies in a row one time and was like wow look at these cool things you can do...and then i just tried to play like that...except ya i tend to play a little campy against better players cause im not confident in being aggressive otherwise.

 

[Deleted member]

actually lol i hated peach dittos for the longest time, and then i remember i played you in like, 5 friendlies in a row one time and was like wow look at these cool things you can do...and then i just tried to play like that...except ya i tend to play a little campy against better players cause im not confident in being aggressive otherwise.

edit:

baka4moe *****!

 

[MacD]

geez, all of so cal be up in here

 

[ItalianStallion]

Can some one critique this vid for me? thanks!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLw9a8bfQlM

Well, your l-canceling is atrocious and you missed some easy edge-guards. You do react quite well to your opponent, and you seem to know your character.

Overall, work on your tech skill, and your defense. A faster spacie could get through your walls.

Good job though. Nice win.

 

[PandaCobo]

That vid isn't the one I posted but I like that one a lot better

 

[ItalianStallion]

That vid isn't the one I posted but I like that one a lot better

It's the video you posted the first time. Obviously you posted it since I quoted you posting it. The other video, the one where you played against Mewtwo, is not worthy of my critique. That Mewtwo was just too good.

 

[Cia]

**** YEAH VANZ!!! I Wondered where you went!

What did you place?

3rd :D

zhu was telling me about some of your stuff, i'm so happy for you

hope he told you hi and stuff like i said to

lol yeah, he did. I wish I was going to be in NY when you got here. These smashfests are too hilarious. You should have seen Reno and I making all these lol references that no one else understood. (i.e trolling with the Shaco "woop!" sound)

 

[Rosedemon]

Vanz, I am so dissapoint.

Why do you always play ****ty characters. First Teemo, now LeBlanc?

Step it up bro.

 

[MacD]

it's ok alan, kat is his main

LOOOOOOOOOL

 

[Cia]

Vanz, I am so dissapoint.

Why do you always play ****ty characters. First Teemo, now LeBlanc?

Step it up bro.

1v1? I guarantee you'll hate me forever

 

[Rosedemon]

What sense does it make to 1v1 a LeBlanc? I'd have to stall the game for 20 minutes, and that sir does not sound fun.

 

[Turazrok]

Oh man he backin down.

Run around with your little ***** *** head hanging down like a little *****, ya *****

 

[Wake]

Bonquiqui!!!!!!!

 

[DoH]

It's like when Shroomed is always asking me to money match.

Like I want to pay to play fake characters?

 

[john!]

just play any hero that can survive until 30 minutes

then leblanc can't do anything LOL

i love facing leblancs

 

[baka4moé]

pandacobo i watched ur vid against falco, here are my initial thoughts:
- fc your fairs more, u want to reduce lag whenever u can
- try incorporating more aerials, u used fair a lot. its a nice move but its hella slow, so when ur trying to hit ppl off platforms etc try using nair/bair/uair, plus they combo better that fair normally. i saw times where u wouldve hit him with another aerial but u chose fair and then he hit u cuz fairs too slow.
- fast fall ur aerials. again, fast movement is important.
- there were a couple times where u missed a bair edgeguard by going out too far. esp on bf, when spacies recover low its a lot easier to cover more options. for instance, at 0:30, staying closer to the ledge wouldve covered all good options.
- mix up grabs and dash attacks. u dash attacked his sheild alot and missed good grab opportunities.
- i think the biggest thing overall tho is just to practice ur movement, it seems like ur not very comfortable with ur character yet, at least from the one vid i saw. hope this helps, and keep up the good work!

 

[Palpi]

I keep thinking of what Mafia said about grabbing, and maybe it is just falcon...I just am not seeing the grab openings as much, though I have been getting a few more grabs...dash attacking shields is no fun.

 

[PandaCobo]

pandacobo i watched ur vid against falco, here are my initial thoughts:
- fc your fairs more, u want to reduce lag whenever u can
- try incorporating more aerials, u used fair a lot. its a nice move but its hella slow, so when ur trying to hit ppl off platforms etc try using nair/bair/uair, plus they combo better that fair normally. i saw times where u wouldve hit him with another aerial but u chose fair and then he hit u cuz fairs too slow.
- fast fall ur aerials. again, fast movement is important.
- there were a couple times where u missed a bair edgeguard by going out too far. esp on bf, when spacies recover low its a lot easier to cover more options. for instance, at 0:30, staying closer to the ledge wouldve covered all good options.
- mix up grabs and dash attacks. u dash attacked his sheild alot and missed good grab opportunities.
- i think the biggest thing overall tho is just to practice ur movement, it seems like ur not very comfortable with ur character yet, at least from the one vid i saw. hope this helps, and keep up the good work!

thanks this helps a lot. Being from the central valley in ca sucks haha. So this is the only way I can really get better. So thanks for all the tips.
ok so fc. is there a special way to do it because I mess them up way to much

 

[The Irish Mafia]

You really gotta play around with it, get comfortable with the situations where dash attack is appropriate, and when they'll be standing there shielding. "Play more" is weak advice but it's basically the truth most of the time ^^; Like, there'll be times when it'll work against falcon, but a lot less in that MU than others.

 

[-Vocal-]

So I actually got a good Melee session in today and I'm loving Peach. I still have a lot of work to do. A couple questions though:

- How is Peach supposed to approach? I tried FC Bair but that didn't always work (especially against Marth). Is turnip shield stun enough to combo into? For example, Turnip>FC Nair>Grab?

- Why is it a bad idea to jab Peach? I was reading the writeup in the OP of this thread about the Doc matchup and it says that Peach can punish a jab attack - how?

- Does Peach have any good throw combos? Just experimenting the only ones I found that worked were Uthrow>Uair, Uthrow>Nair, or Uthrow>Usmash depending on the character.

- How do I handle characters with long range ground moves? The guy I played against today liked to play Luigi and I had trouble with him doing a Wavedash>Ftilt approach.

 

[Rosedemon]

just play any hero that can survive until 30 minutes

then leblanc can't do anything LOL

i love facing leblancs

The thing is, if we go by Solomind rules, then I need a character that can not only survive for 20 minutes against LeBlanc, but one who wont lose his/her lane while also being able to farm semi-comfortably. There are very few characters who fit this list.

Now if we played first to first inhib, then thats like a free win, but thats not really fair to LB (or any character who falls off as the game progresses).

 

[ConnorTheKid]

So I actually got a good Melee session in today and I'm loving Peach. I still have a lot of work to do. A couple questions though:

- How is Peach supposed to approach? I tried FC Bair but that didn't always work (especially against Marth). Is turnip shield stun enough to combo into? For example, Turnip>FC Nair>Grab?

- Why is it a bad idea to jab Peach? I was reading the writeup in the OP of this thread about the Doc matchup and it says that Peach can punish a jab attack - how?

- Does Peach have any good throw combos? Just experimenting the only ones I found that worked were Uthrow>Uair, Uthrow>Nair, or Uthrow>Usmash depending on the character.

- How do I handle characters with long range ground moves? The guy I played against today liked to play Luigi and I had trouble with him doing a Wavedash>Ftilt approach.

1. FC fair is your best friend. Throw in a few turnips to your approach too.
2. if anyone jabs Peach, she can just CC dsmash
3. She can dthrow -> dash attack most floaty characters if they DI away and she can dthrow -> usmash if they don't DI away at high percent. Against fastfallers, uthrow is your go-to throw.
4. Just run up and shield. If he ftilts, you can just nair out of shield. I think running up towards someone and shielding is really legit because you can just react to whatever the other person does.

 

[-Vocal-]

Thank you, this is just the type of help I was looking for. Thanks bro

 

[john!]

The thing is, if we go by Solomind rules, then I need a character that can not only survive for 20 minutes against LeBlanc, but one who wont lose his/her lane while also being able to farm semi-comfortably. There are very few characters who fit this list.

true that... my swain would do work tho... just sayin

 

[baka4moé]

thanks this helps a lot. Being from the central valley in ca sucks haha. So this is the only way I can really get better. So thanks for all the tips.
ok so fc. is there a special way to do it because I mess them up way to much

no not really, all i can say is practice. its actually quite easy once you know how to do it. i mean for fair, i fast fall after inputting the aerial, whereas for bair and nair u normally only fc those when ur lower, closer to the ground. its all about timing, just practice it to get the timing right. play around with different aerials and float heights, so you can recognize when you can float cancel something vs. when the aerial requires an lcancel. it may help to do stuff immediately after landing, like jab or downsmash or dash attack, so you know when uve successfully fc'd something.

 

[PandaCobo]

That's what I thought ok cool. Thank you

 

[ShroudedOne]

So, in the Falco boards, they were talking about shield dropping. Like, dropping your shield while dropping through a platform, and it was being discussed as a way to switch Falco from defense to offense. I'm curious if shield dropping has a place in the Peach metagame at all.

I'm not sure, but I think our defensive options are better than Falco's, so we might not need it.

 

[eet]

Yeah I have done it with Falco and lasers but never thought about Peach. Only bad thing is Peach's slow second jump, so no jumping around the platforms all shield droppy laser-spammin. But coupled with FCing, itd be pretty pro any ways I think. Maybe if they were on the platform space the Fair then shield drop and float under the platform and shieldpoke with Uair? Not sure how fast thatd be but I think itd look cool lol. No idea, but I think you should be able to do some crazy aerial shield drop turnip fc-nair super pressure combos at least.

Anyone ever shield drop with peach? while we're talking about random techs, anyone use Peach's moonwalk regularly for anything?

 

[ShroudedOne]

Her shield drop is really sexy, too. I'm thinking, if a Marth forward smashes/uptilts me from under a platform, I can shield drop down and do something to him in his lag. I've seen Peach wavedash OoS after a Marth forward smash and grab him (cause his f-smash is LAG), and I think we'd have enough time to do stuff if we were quick. Then again, maybe not.

 

[Palpi]

I never learned how to shield drop because I couldn't find the applicability for it, or I was just lazy, could someone explain how to do it? I actually played against a falco who shield drop baired me a lot...often missed, but it was neat to watch lol.

 

[ShroudedOne]

A quote from DruggedFox:

@darksyde

To shield drop you just have to get your controller to a certain point far enough towards "down" on the control stick. The only way speed affects this is if you move your control stick down too slowly in which case you'll just keep angling your shield more and more downwards... but you have to be pretty slow to be doing it like this. To learn it just slowly move your control stick down and you'll shield drop eventually, and try to figure out the exact part of the control stick you need to hit. Then just work on moving to it faster; it's honestly not that hard to abuse, because you can actually be moving your control stick down *while* they're hitting your shield, so as soon as you get out of stun you'll have reached the shield drop point of your control stick.

/shield dropping is broken

The point at which you angle downward in order to shield drop, and not angle your shield or spot dodge is actually kind of hard to find, but once you find it and practice, it'll be pretty easy to pinpoint. I think it's about 3 quarters of the way down...?

 

[Excel_Zero]

Could someone critique my match?

http://www.twitch.tv/arcadeboxtv/b/284871876 @ 1:33:10

This is me in GF's against HDL.

 

[PandaCobo]

no not really, all i can say is practice. its actually quite easy once you know how to do it. i mean for fair, i fast fall after inputting the aerial, whereas for bair and nair u normally only fc those when ur lower, closer to the ground. its all about timing, just practice it to get the timing right. play around with different aerials and float heights, so you can recognize when you can float cancel something vs. when the aerial requires an lcancel. it may help to do stuff immediately after landing, like jab or downsmash or dash attack, so you know when uve successfully fc'd something.

So i have been practice the fc and is it better to use z or a when trying to fc

 

[ShroudedOne]

If you mean using Z or A to do the aerial, I would say use C-stick. Unless you mean you want to FC nair. Then I think that is really up to you. But the c-stick makes the other aerials really easy.

 

[PandaCobo]

yeah i mean the aerials and o man i never thought of that. hmm i will have to test that. because using the z and a it was hard to fast fall and throw out the bair or nair i kept dair ing on accident

 

[ShroudedOne]

Could someone critique my match?

http://www.twitch.tv/arcadeboxtv/b/284871876 @ 1:33:10

This is me in GF's against HDL.

It's rarely, if ever, a good idea to challenge Link while above him. Besides the fact that being directly above someone isn't that great for Peach to begin with, Link's Up air is good. Well, it's slow but very annoying. Watch out for that. Also, it seemed to me like you dash attacked a lot. HDL got hit by most of them, but maybe you should mix that up with grab or something.

I wish I could tell you what to do when Link nairs a turnip and uses it for recovery. I wasn't even aware that that could be done with him (with other chars, yes).

Those were just small things, though.