VaNz Stuff.. about Peach (Tactical Discussion)

[Wake]

hahahahahahaha 55:45! Oh that's rich! I love it! and by "love it!" I mean ""

But really I'd say it's at least 65:35-70:30 in Fox's favor. Though I don't really know how much MU percentages even matter in this game...

 

[KirbyKaze]

I think Peach's Fox matchup is closer than before. I'd say 70-30 or 65-35 but with so many of his counterpicks banned... I don't think it's nearly that bad anymore. Her combo game on him is really vicious and his style doesn't really blatantly counter her "cover options through floating, float cancels, controlled vulnerability, and priority abuse". He just preys on her speed better than anyone except Falcon and he has some good combos and kill setups on her.

I'm not sure what these numbers mean but when I hear 70-30 I think of matchups where a secondary is recommended and I don't really get that feeling with Fox. He's just really fast and difficult to hit. But life can become horrible if he's even knocked over, down smashed, or grabbed once. And Peach covers enough options now for it to be plausible for her to win enough exchanges to take the match / set.

 

[VA]

I think Peach's Fox matchup is closer than before. I'd say 70-30 or 65-35 but with so many of his counterpicks banned... I don't think it's nearly that bad anymore. Her combo game on him is really vicious and his style doesn't really blatantly counter her "cover options through floating, float cancels, controlled vulnerability, and priority abuse". He just preys on her speed better than anyone except Falcon and he has some good combos and kill setups on her.

I'm not sure what these numbers mean but when I hear 70-30 I think of matchups where a secondary is recommended and I don't really get that feeling with Fox. He's just really fast and difficult to hit. But life can become horrible if he's even knocked over, down smashed, or grabbed once. And Peach covers enough options now for it to be plausible for her to win enough exchanges to take the match / set.

Match up numbers don't really work (in my mind) because of how static they are. So many factors influence what makes one match up what it is for the individual player.

Marth Peach, what are the numbers on that? Pretty sure regardless of what they are it's 100-0 if you're using Marth against Armada.

I don't get MU theory, how does it fit in on a spectrum of skill level?

 

[bladeofapollo]

Match-up theory feels like an indicator of how important familiarity is. If you don't know what to do when fighting Yoshi, you can probably figure it out; the same does not apply for Marth. Similarly, following what KK said, I don't think Peach has any match-ups that demand counter-picking characters. I also think this is the case for every top tier character, but that's just me.

 

[Battlecow]

So does anyone know about Armada's sexual orientation?

He looks pretty gay. And he plays peach. So, you know.

 

[john!]

pretty sure armada's manlier than you can ever hope to be

 

[ConnorTheKid]

Axe vs MacD from Genesis 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_AfHvA5sy8&feature=feedu

it's a pretty fun set to watch. I was so sad Axe lost because MacD sucks and that means Axe has gone down to non-elite MacD noob Peach level

MACD YOUTUBE WILL NEVER ACKNOWLEDGE YOU BEING GOOD

 

[Wake]

Yeah, I'm kind of curious how MU numbers are even formulated... I think a lot of MU percentages are personal anyways. Like for me, Falcon gave me the hardest time for a long time even though I thought the MU was even, but it wasn't even to me because I just personally sucked vs Falcon.

 

[Silly Kyle]

Damn that set was intense!! My heart was pounding on the last match. Good job MacD for beating Axe, again. Lol <3

 

[Battlecow]

pretty sure armada's manlier than you can ever hope to be

Very true. The question remains- does he like dudes?

 

[VA]

So does anyone know about Armada's sexual orientation?

He looks pretty gay. And he plays peach. So, you know.

pretty sure he's straight. why do you ask? are you interested?

 

[Wake]

pretty sure he's straight. why do you ask? are you interested?

hahaha I was just gonna say that... took the words right out of my mouth

 

[VA]

I'll be sure to put in a good word for you if you are....battlecow

 

[Battlecow]

Nope, I'm totally straight. Actually, I was just wondering if his peach was... you know... taken.

Spoiler

SOOOOOOO CUTE

 

[Rosedemon]

If theres one thing Genesis 2 taught me, its that the words "totally straight" are almost always far from true.

 

[Battlecow]

How... uh... what...

You know what? Never mind.

 

[john!]

posts like that make we wonder why i come to this thread

and then i realize

posts like that are why i come to this thread

 

[Wake]

You see, now you're catching on.

 

[DoH]

Can you put in a good word for me for Aniolas? I love me some gingers.

Also Armada wears capris.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpFlR5t4WGw

 

[Rosedemon]

I really hope you're willing to share DoH.

I'd be fine with just pics if not.

 

[Battlecow]

I'm gonna go look at pictures of naked women for a while now to get the fabulousness off (no offense, <3 you guys- I mean- wait- AAAAAIIIIIIIGH).

Be back when I need peach advice.

 

[eet]

Can't we all get along naked?

 

[MacD]

Axe vs MacD from Genesis 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_AfHvA5sy8&feature=feedu

it's a pretty fun set to watch. I was so sad Axe lost because MacD sucks and that means Axe has gone down to non-elite MacD noob Peach level

MACD YOUTUBE WILL NEVER ACKNOWLEDGE YOU BEING GOOD

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL, it's funny cause it's true

I'll be sure to put in a good word for you if you are....battlecow

you wanna do that for me and some peeps? k thanks

If theres one thing Genesis 2 taught me, its that the words "totally straight" are almost always far from true.

hahahaha sky's shirt too good

Can you put in a good word for me for Aniolas? I love me some gingers.

Also Armada wears capris.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpFlR5t4WGw

god i love that musical, and that is exactly what came into mind when people asked me if _____ from europe was gay

 

[ShroudedOne]

Can you put in a good word for me for Aniolas? I love me some gingers.

Also Armada wears capris.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpFlR5t4WGw

THAT was funny. I was scrolling through these unread pages and now my mouth aches from laughing so much. I really did choose the best character.

I wonder why I never see Armada in here. Not that he has to be, but a well-placed quip every now and then would be nice.

On a more serious note, I always considered matchup numbers, and the tier list itself, to be largely objective. If you take two characters, and account for everything that we know they can do as far as the metagame is concerned, then the better character is one that simply has better options in, with regards to matchups, better options and abilities in that matchup. With regards to the tier list, they, overall, have the best options among the cast. I never understand people who say that dittoes aren't even, because it depends on the player. If you take two Foxes, and placed them in a match, everything that one Fox could do, the other Fox would be able to do to the other, because they are the same. So they have the same number and quality of options. So the matchup is even.

Basically, if I'm considering matchups/tiers, I never think about the situation relative to players. I only consider the character, and I think that's what these guidelines are there for.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

alright guys help me figure out this bird:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjsPDq6m4QI
me vs pp, so i doubt much can be said. My offense is pretty on point, and he really only makes me look completely ******** once (sometime in game 2 i keep rolling trying to back away from his offense, he chases me down super hard.) I know it's hard to give advice on a match vs one of the world's best, but give it a shot. I'm looking more for inherent flaws in my peaches game around neutral, when i have options to gain control but instead let him gain control because i pick the wrong option or don't mix up. (that should show glaringly vs pp, he catches on very quickly)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iagybUjRzs0&feature=related
Me vs Little England. (13 minutes :C) I feel like the main issue here was me losing patience towards the end, which is my fatal flaw. Once again, I don't need to hear "you missed a chaingrab here", i need to hear "this will never work, peach just can't do this here".

Thanks a ton in advance <3, also thanks to DoH for making this matchup make a lot more sense after pools. My problem isn't with the matchup (any more), so I'm looking for advice when it comes to my style being inefficient or me making bad decisions.

 

[Erasor.]

Is spamming turnips at falcon good around 100% for an edge guard? any advice.

 

[ShroudedOne]

alright guys help me figure out this bird:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjsPDq6m4QI
me vs pp, so i doubt much can be said. My offense is pretty on point, and he really only makes me look completely ******** once (sometime in game 2 i keep rolling trying to back away from his offense, he chases me down super hard.) I know it's hard to give advice on a match vs one of the world's best, but give it a shot. I'm looking more for inherent flaws in my peaches game around neutral, when i have options to gain control but instead let him gain control because i pick the wrong option or don't mix up. (that should show glaringly vs pp, he catches on very quickly)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iagybUjRzs0&feature=related
Me vs Little England. (13 minutes :C) I feel like the main issue here was me losing patience towards the end, which is my fatal flaw. Once again, I don't need to hear "you missed a chaingrab here", i need to hear "this will never work, peach just can't do this here".

Thanks a ton in advance <3, also thanks to DoH for making this matchup make a lot more sense after pools. My problem isn't with the matchup (any more), so I'm looking for advice when it comes to my style being inefficient or me making bad decisions.

Well, I thought I'd give this a go because I feel that watching games, looking for things, and trying to understand the game will help me get better. That being said, however, I'm afraid that there wasn't much that I noticed, Mafia.

I will say that against Peepee, you were using your float to approach him a lot, and he looked like he caught on to you. It's always good to have solid ground game as well as air game, and switching between being on the ground and being in the air is a good way to mix it up, I think.

Hopefully someone more reputable than I saw some things, but that's something to go on, I hope.

EDIT: To the post above me, spamming ANYTHING with Peach is not a good idea. Especially turnips, against Falcon. I won't go so far as to say that you'd be better off playing as Fox for that matchup, BUT...y'know... (at the very least, I hate it).

 

[KirbyKaze]

Can't we all get along naked?

Also, I second Alan's thing. There are so many closet cases out there.

 

[Brookman]

@ mafia: rely less on float fair and more on dash attack. Or at least, have more intentions when you are floating. It's pretty apparent that PP was under very edit: very little pressure. Learn to powershield. Your tech chasing is really weak, too. Another thing, you should probably develop some more answers for shield pressure and try to stay in your shield less when you're not being hit. Wavedashing out of shield (when not being hit) is a great option. A little trick that armada uses to move quicker is to double jump into his floats. I'll look for a time stamp when I check out his matches later.

On a related note, we should play more.

 

[eet]

@mafia
Yeah apart from the small inconsistencies (missed WDs and mess ups) Id say you also used Fair a little too much, too; I guess maybe don't be afraid to clash with people and nair them the **** away, also bair. You were floating way high, also -- I presume you were trying to avoid lasers? I dunno, I usually stay right about the SH laser range. Also you kinda rolled a few times where you shouldn't have, but you had some pro combos also .. did better than I would have vs PP.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

Shrouded: Thanks :D
Brookman: Not to be too defensive but my tech chasing is actually pretty solid. I agree with the dash attack bit, I used to rely on that move a lot so I basically removed it from my game and I've been trying to reinstate it recently.
I feel like I'd only use that double jump thing if I'm absolutely sure it'll end up with me in control, not a good idea to play tradesises without a double jump. I'll try it out though. Thanks :3 Also, totally. Too bad MDZ isn't running tournaments anymore, tho.
Eet: being on the ground vs falco seems like such a bad position to me. I forgot to powershield, so I ended up floating. The high floats were just me being nervous about getting too close. I agree though, peach needs to pressure falco and I can't do it from that high up. I'll watch the high floats.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Falco can't SHDL

But yeah he can float a bit lower when Fairing

 

[Brookman]

Not to be too defensive but my tech chasing is actually pretty solid. I agree with the dash attack bit, I used to rely on that move a lot so I basically removed it from my game and I've been trying to reinstate it recently.
I feel like I'd only use that double jump thing if I'm absolutely sure it'll end up with me in control, not a good idea to play tradesises without a double jump.

IF YOU SAY SO.

read my edit, cause I was drunk and left the stove on mid-edit.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

I edited as well.
Arc says the same thing about "intentions". I feel like I go kinda autopilot about half the time I go up for a fair, and I should do so more consciously. He also says i have good tech chases

 

[Brookman]

if you think 'good' is enough. . . When you start doing 0-60~80~death tech chases it puts a lot more pressure on the opponent immediately. I'm not saying it is always possible to have these monster stocks but . . i think you get the idea.

Basically, more dash attack but don't get shield grabbed. Also, don't play too"textbook" cause it's "predictable"

Like, the way you spam fair . . .basically you can jump up for a float and probably get away with just dropping the float and fast falling into a dash attack. Jump into the air, check for movement (peach is floaty without floating ;] ) and then drop in and float in their face. . .

You can also try floating a spaced fair onto shield, and unless its vs. someone with grab range you're pretty much free to chill and this puts pressure up too. READ: You don't always have to downsmash when you hit shields ;]

Remember fair has pretty good frame advantage for free grabs, too. Just space out so you don't see shine out of shield.

 

[eet]

lol my bad, meant shl*(im high) And yeah, I hate being grounded by falco, lasers. D:

 

[The Irish Mafia]

I sometimes end up with 80% tech chases, but peach is just too slow to be able to get a punish in every situation. If conditions are right, I can make it happen.
Lately I've been trying to spam dash attack and just notice when they start shielding so I can approach with grab.
I only fair to grab sometimes, generally when I'm floating at a bit under platform height. It's a lot easier to get it to shield combo if you're floating that little but lower. However, I need to mix up my attacks on shield into grabs, regardless of the frame advantage.

 

[Brookman]

right, you don't need frame advantage to grab someone who is shielding.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Peach has a beastly punishment game.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

Brookmans post is what i need to remember. Thanks. I need to make mental notes of their response to fc fair, if they're jumping, counterattacking, grabbing, or keep shielding.