VaNz Stuff.. about Peach (Tactical Discussion)

[john!]

fox and falcon are the two worst imo. then sheik/marth/falco/puff all beat her, it comes down to personal preference.

 

[Rosedemon]

Sideways DI raises both boundaries, which technically means that the guaranteed chaingrab starts higher, but ends higher as well. I'm not sure how much it affects Falcon, but Fox and Falco can be chaingrabbed for like another 20% if they keep DIing to the side.

I'd like to chime in and say that if they dont DI to the side, you can up throw upsmash them at ~100-110 and kill them.

TAKE THAT STUPID DUMB SPACE ANIMALS!

 

[Armada]

Fox-Puff (even between them)

CF- Sheik (even between them)

Marth

Falco- That matchup is even

In wanna say that order but maybe Marth and Sheik should switch place. Marth is my favorite MU so maybe Im wrong there cause I really like fighting Marth.

 

[eet]

Sideways DI raises both boundaries, which technically means that the guaranteed chaingrab starts higher, but ends higher as well. I'm not sure how much it affects Falcon, but Fox and Falco can be chaingrabbed for like another 20% if they keep DIing to the side.

I'd like to chime in and say that if they dont DI to the side, you can up throw upsmash them at ~100-110 and kill them.

good to know this, thanks.

What do you guys suggest against nair spammy cf? it's very annoying.


And any general tips vs Marth? I literally cant get close to him. Dash attack and turnips just don't seem like enough. I end up going Sheik half the time in tournies.

 

[darkatma]

Space against marth. learn his forward smash spacing, his utilt range, and switch up grabs and dash attacks. Also learn how to use dtilt well.

the matchup is more frustrating for marth than for peach if done right.

 

[Wake]

Space against marth. learn his forward smash spacing, his utilt range, and switch up grabs and dash attacks. Also learn how to use dtilt well.

the matchup is more frustrating for marth than for peach if done right.

Yeah I agree with this. I love fighting Marth. Once you learn the matchup, it is really fun I think. For some reason, even though I think the C.Falcon matchup is even, he just does things and I die...

Armada, I was wondering why Puff is a harder matchup for you. Like, at Genesis, you seemed to do fine against Mango's Puff, but Hbox's seemed to give you more trouble. Is it just a difference in play styles?

 

[MacD]

because hbox plays the match up correctly and as stupid as possible

mango does not

 

[Wake]

because hbox plays the match up correctly and as stupid as possible

mango does not

hahaha I guess that makes sense. How about you MacD? Do you have trouble with Puffs?

 

[baka4moé]

puff is gay. how do you even begin to approach good spacing puffs? like i can't pick up a turnip or i'll get hit, if i stay in my shield he can punish on reaction, and if i float i think he's still in a better position than me cause his aerials have generally better reach. ugh.

 

[mers]

So what exactly is the deal with Mr. Saturn? I know he does mad damage to shields, but what else is there? He inflicts a ton of stun when he hits, and I've gotten people locked by hitting them with him at point blank range and spamming A to catch and rethrow as quickly as possible. I assume that's escapable, but I wanna know more.

 

[Rosedemon]

If you continue to throw and recatch Mr. Saturn without it "poofing" away (best way is to throw it in the air) its grab box gets larger and larger letting you catch it from further distances. This is true for every item, but turnips have a set time they can be out.

Most of you know this, but its fun nonetheless.

 

[Wake]

If you continue to throw and recatch Mr. Saturn without it "poofing" away (best way is to throw it in the air) its grab box gets larger and larger letting you catch it from further distances. This is true for every item, but turnips have a set time they can be out.

Most of you know this, but its fun nonetheless.

I actually did not know this...

 

[Teczer0]

Its actually true for any throwable item.

When Ryoko and Magus did the turnip glitch, they literally threw and recaught the turnip so much that they were able to pick up the turnip almost halfway across the stage haha

 

[KirbyKaze]

Puff Peach looks like hell and then some if the Puff knows what they're doing.

Fortunately, right now, that's basically only Hungrybox.

 

[DoH]

Fighting hbox is kind of like fighting Ganon. If you can keep the pressure on it's not that bad, otherwise you're just gonna get hit a lot and it's gonna suck

 

[eet]

That sounds like all the top tiers lol

 

[KirbyKaze]

I think if Juan is going to beat Kevin Nanney or Armada's whimsical gimmick counter he's gonna have to think outside the box.

 

[Riddlebox]

I think if Juan is going to beat Kevin Nanney or Armada's magic gimmick he's gonna have to think outside the box.

Friendship...over.

 

[Dark Hart]

He should just change his tag to 'hungry'

 

[MacD]

i can beat every puff i play except hbox and darc (only cause there are only 2 good puffs and no one else near a high/top level), granted i've never actually played hbox in tourney but i'm going to figure that he'd win

here you can watch me lose to darc cause he hates me and spammed bair http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvZBq4CcZaE

i think there is also a set of me vs hbox friendlies, but he was trying to help me with the match up and stuff so yea

you could always try the strat i used against raistlin, first pull stitch, 2 more stitches on the first stock, 2 more stitches before the match ends. then 2nd match, 3 more stitches and a sword or bomb or something

 

[The Irish Mafia]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcsuvUFMGrQ&feature=feedu

Not exactly a set I need advice on, but it'd feel weird to get recorded and not post it here. Idk. Watch me style on a falco and be proud of your little mafia being all grown up or something.

 

[Wake]

Here are some matches I played with a Fox/Marth player, Fluxwolf (who was the topic of some discussion a little while ago ). It's an hour worth of matches so I won't ask anyone to watch all of it (unless ya really want to), but could you watch a couple matches and critique them? Towards the end there're some good Peach/Marth matches. I would appreciate it. Thanks. Oh and sorry about the no audio and the quality... put some music on in the background or something haha
52:50 is a good match I think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdKloEtQG_g&feature=feedu

 

[darkatma]

Here are some matches I played with a Fox/Marth player, Fluxwolf (who was the topic of some discussion a little while ago ). It's an hour worth of matches so I won't ask anyone to watch all of it (unless ya really want to), but could you watch a couple matches and critique them? Towards the end there're some good Peach/Marth matches. I would appreciate it. Thanks. Oh and sorry about the no audio and the quality... put some music on in the background or something haha
52:50 is a good match I think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdKloEtQG_g&feature=feedu

where are you guys from again?
is it the land of chexr and aarosmashguy? Which i think is montana..

edit:
from what I see, your tech skill is pretty good, but you could improve on a bit of spacing and timing game. I used to think some fc nair spam was safe... until you try it against someone good =[
haven't watched any vs marth

 

[Wake]

where are you guys from again?
is it the land of chexr and aarosmashguy? Which i think is montana..

edit:
from what I see, your tech skill is pretty good, but you could improve on a bit of spacing and timing game. I used to think some fc nair spam was safe... until you try it against someone good =[
haven't watched any vs marth

haha Minnesota, which is in fact the land of Chexr and Aarosmashguy. They own all of us And thank you. It's hard for me not to fc nair so much... it's so much fun haha. Is it safe to fc nair into someones shield? Do i have enough time to follow up with something? Oh and I was wondering, you've played Cosmo before right? What do you do vs Zelda? We have a Zelda player here in MN too.

The Marth/Peach matches start at 26:35 Then I mess around with a couple other characters. Peach/Marth then continues at 41:25.

...... Montana please...

 

[Rosedemon]

You camp her or you go sheik.

I like to go shiek cuz the best thing she can do in that matchup is down-b and ditto you.

Trololololololol

 

[baka4moé]

hey guys thoughts on good game 1 stages against falcon? i normally prefer fod or dreamland but those are normally striked. battlefield i heard is pretty bad bc the platform heights are perfect for combos, but at the same time i think fd is bad if the falcon spaces really well and camps a little bit. any ideas on what's good/why?

 

[eet]

If you're worried about him running around spamming aerials what about Yoshi's Story? smaller level of course, so you're kind of limiting peach's ability to live forever lol. so maybe actually Pokemon Stadium, the level transformations should limit falcon's campy-ness.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

i always thought falcon did really well on stadium. also, the blast zones are pretty small there too

 

[eet]

Yeah that's a good point, I usually go fd in that mu myself.

 

[Wake]

hey guys thoughts on good game 1 stages against falcon? i normally prefer fod or dreamland but those are normally striked. battlefield i heard is pretty bad bc the platform heights are perfect for combos, but at the same time i think fd is bad if the falcon spaces really well and camps a little bit. any ideas on what's good/why?

FD for awesome chaingrabbing... My sets with Falcons usually go to Dreamland first. FD and Dreamland. I don't like Battlefield or YS against him. Pokemon Stadium isn't too bad, but yeah the blast zones are pretty close...

 

[Composeur]

Well, the question was about game 1, and PS isn't even a neutral anymore, so it's not really...yeah. I think FoD is the best neutral against him, followed by FD/DL64. You can live for a long time with the right DI on DL, and like Wake said, you can CG CFal for ridiculous percents and have very clean edgeguards against him on FD. The options against him are good, since you can always strike YS and BF.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

imo, whatever's good vs falcon. Fountain's the #1 choice, obviously, but assume they'll strike that as soon as they plug in their controller. DL's fine but most falcons don't like it too much vs peach. I think FD's fine, the lack of platforms help you avoid super combos sometimes, but sometimes it supports them. You also get the chaingrab, which is nice. Battlefield is just about neutral, imo. You don't gain much, and falcon can do some interesting recoveries. I think the stage gives him a bit too much space. On DL, the open space is space you can control, but bf is just big enough for you to not have mobility and for falcon to be able to get in and out of your space. Yoshis can get sour because of the die-at-40-blastzones, but it's a mistake to underestimate his recovery on other stages, so it can be an advantage at times, seeing as he dies moderately quickly too. Also, the small stage means some combos end sooner rather than later, and his movement is kinda stuffed.
imo:
1: Fountain of DreamsDream Land
2: Final Destination
3: Yoshi's Story
4: Battlefield

edit: don't let that ******* take you to Pokemon. The stage supports camping, and the transformations **** with peaches mobility and float canceling so hard. The blast zones are terrible too. You really gain nothing from playing that stage, especially compared to what falcon gains. Don't give him that advantage.

 

[baka4moé]

hmm i guess i just have to get better at fd then =/ . idk if falcon camps it seems like a nightmare for peach.
and im just bad at that stage in general b/c i love platforms very much, nice for recovery options and tech chasing..

hmm yeah yoshis vs battlefield seems tough, bf at least doesnt kill you at dumb percents as much but battlefields platform height is bad..hmm

on a lighter note i took a game off wobbles in tournament today! ^_^ yup i was so happy lol

 

[MacD]

really though, play on whatever stages you like for matchups

who cares what is good an bad, zhu loves battlefield so he takes everyone there

if you like yoshi's against marth cause he can't DD camp you, then go there. who cares what the "good" stages are against a character.

and i hate battlefield so i try to never fight there ever, it's like my least favorite stage in singles

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I feel ya macd. I love dreamland, even when i play marth. Except against kels' fox because he laser camps me and then platform camps and then does other gay stuff. CGs in the middle of the stage are pretty nice tho

 

[Deleted member]

haha noob

now im gunna pick battlefield every time

 

[MacD]

not like it'll matter, you have like 5 stages to chose from that you like, i get 1 1/2

 

[The Irish Mafia]

also, don't expect too much from the fd chaingrab. On average, i get it to start at 10, and end at 60 against a good falcon. i mean, the 50% is nothing to laugh at, but falcon can live till 150%ish if he puts his heart into his DI.

 

[Wake]

Yeah I agree with MacD. I think playing on the stages you feel most comfortable on/the ones you like the most is the best option, despite what MU charts say... I just think that the MU chart stuff tends to be similar/the same as what a person feels comfortable on... I love RC though and hate Brinstar. Oh, and I'm not completely sure, but I think that the CG on Falcon on FD lasts longer than 50-60% Irish Mafia...

 

[The Irish Mafia]

It's supposed to last till 80ish, and it will. . . on bad falcons.