Unpopular Smash Opinions (BE CIVIL)

[Swamp Sensei]

Smaller characters should be more like Sheik ; great combo potential , however _ has significant difficulty obtaining KOs

I don't think this is an unpopular opinion.

This is just the basic design philosophy most of Smash's combo characters have. Sure they aren't as min maxed as Sheik, but combo characters like Fox, Mythra, Pichu and Bayonetta already do this.

 

[TheZizz]

Items and casual play are not synonymous. It might take a BO20+ format but the better player inevitably comes out on top.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

The Counterattack remix is alright.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

The Counterattack remix is alright.

Splattack remix is peak.

 

[FazDude]

I'm still surprised people don't like the Splattack remix. Sure, it lacks the same energy as the original, but for a more traditional ska take, it works pretty well.

In terms of Splatoon remixes I don't like, Bomb Rush Blush is a serious downgrade IMO.

 

[EnsignJensin]

Not sure if this counts as "unpopular" or not. But the biggest thing I want most out of the next game's solo content is more unique boss battles from existing franchises. We only got four completely new fights in Ultimate that weren't Galeem or Dharkon and we don't even have an actual boss battle mode.

It might be unrealistic, but I'd love if every franchise had at least one boss fight of its own, or at least every franchise with more than one character. Getting an actual Metal Face fight would be great, and I'd love to see what they could make from a legendary Pokemon like Regigigas or Necrozma. I'd enjoy that even more than a full new Subspace-style adventure mode, though ideally we could have both.

 

[UserKev]

I loath the idea of boss battles but they can be exciting again if done right with careful vision. Brawl will always be peak boss battles for me.

 

[ScrubReborn]

I just want basic mooks back.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Ice Climbers where a bad idea as a character inclusion. It surprised me back then as a kid, and still does. Should've honestly been Diddy, but that's biased, but Wario or Dedede would be much better than them too.

 

[Dinoman96]

Ice Climbers where a bad idea as a character inclusion. It surprised me back then as a kid, and still does. Should've honestly been Diddy, but that's biased, but Wario or Dedede would be much better than them too.

tbh Melee's roster lineup is pretty weird in general like that. Like, it has obvious stuff like Bowser, Peach, Zelda and Mewtwo, but with such a small newcomer lineup (barring clones), it's rather odd to think that Sakurai prioritized the likes of Ice Climbers, Mr. Game & Watch, and Sheik over Wario, Diddy Kong, and Dedede.

 

[Perkilator]

I’m sure the likes of Wario, Diddy and/or Dedede if Melee and its project plan had more time to cook. Those glaring omissions can coexist with the likes of more off-the-wall characters like Sheik, Ice Climbers, and Mr. Game & Watch.

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

tbh Melee's roster lineup is pretty weird in general like that. Like, it has obvious stuff like Bowser, Peach, Zelda and Mewtwo, but with such a small newcomer lineup (barring clones), it's rather odd to think that Sakurai prioritized the likes of Ice Climbers, Mr. Game & Watch, and Sheik over Wario, Diddy Kong, and Dedede.

I will defend the premise of adding odd characters, at least on a general level. It can be lame to add something as mundane as, say, the Honey Queen in Mario Kart 7 over better racer candidates. But I would argue some fun can be had in experimenting with a playable cast. It's how we start adapting to like characters, after all.

Granted, Melee isn't really the best example of this, and probably looks much worse nowadays due to future Smash titles not being as risky with its overall rosters.

 

[Dinoman96]

I’m sure the likes of Wario, Diddy and/or Dedede if Melee and its project plant had more time to cook. Those glaring omissions can coexist with the likes of more off-the-wall characters like Sheik, Ice Climbers, and Mr. Game & Watch.

I mean, sure, but it's still kinda funny and weird those off-the-wall picks were prioritized over the glaring omissions.

My guess is that it had a lot to do with Sakurai wanting more diverse series representation. He's actually more or less said this in certain interviews, that one of the big reasons Wario was passed over because they already had Peach and Bowser (and Dr. Mario) from Mario, and that Dedede/more Kirby representation in general was passed over because he didn't want to look biased.

速報スマブラ拳!! : アンケート集計拳!!

マリオファミリーが多すぎる、というのも 懸念していたので、これならやはり ワリオの登場は難しかったですね.
(We were also concerned that the Mario family was getting too large, so considering that, Wario’s inclusion was still difficult.)

https://www.ign.com/articles/2006/05/31/sakurais-smash-bros-update

Kirby is a character I designed when I was 19 years old, but I created Meta Knight when I was 22. I knew the character was popular in Japan, but last time around I held off and didn't include him in the game. I wanted to put other people's titles ahead of my own.

says the guy who went hog wild with Kid Icarus Uprising representation in Smash 4 years later

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Except the real reason Uprising got a lot was due to the 3DS version being easy to transfer over to from... a 3DS game. And that Dark Pit was more on his team thinking of ideas for an easy clone. It's not really the same situation.

As for Sheik, keep in mind that Zelda and Sheik were a duo who got in due to a very specific gameplay mechanic. They weren't treated as easy separate options. Zelda would've been weird without Sheik too, due to not having any obvious skills to be used for playable. She barely was anything more than a Link clone in previous non-canon games and some media. Sheik was only easy to see working cause she's an archtypal ninja. Zelda can't really say she's an archtypal mage, as she fights with both magic and some attacks that are far more monk-like. Her entire moveset bar Transform and her Grab(and maybe her throws) are awkward and while arguably fun to use, don't really have any clear basis. The reason Sheik's archtype ninja isn't awkward is because we at least can believe she was trained as a ninja by Impa. None of it really sticks out bar at most, what, the chain? The needles make sense. This is also during a time when things like Naruto were about, so it makes even more sense why that archtype is easy to imagine. And even then, Sheik isn't really a Ninjutsu-style ninja(that is, the media depiction, where it's more magical. It's the actual proper name of the fighting style in real life which is physical). Like, the closest thing is Ninja Vanish, and technically Transform. She still takes some similar stances, but at most is closer to Taijutsu media-wise.

But regardless, she's not hard to imagine a simple fighting style. Zelda is all over the place in abilities within the franchise, so making a coherent moveset is obviously going to be harder. It's easy to see why they went with a specific gameplay mechanic. Her having hard-hitting magic makes a lot of sense when for the most part, she's able to seal away evil. So "finishing the enemy" is a pretty reasonable representation of that concept. It's not perfect, but then again, her lack of core abilities nor an obvious archtype didn't help either. In fact, the most we had was she was clearly a Telepathic user and could use something outright to open doors(which could've been magic or psychic abilities, due to inconsistent information throughout the franchise). Sure, it's a different Zelda and all, but we weren't really at the point where there were tons of different ones with unique abilities. WW and TP were the first times Zelda really started to not be a 100% atypical princess with mild mystical abilities at best. Well after Smash. Kind of hard to take from there and all. You only had ALTTP and OOT to go off of, and the fact she does fight in other media(so her being an action girl in any way is at least acceptable instead of just being someone to save. Peach already was playable/taking action far more, so obviously she didn't have the issue as is).

 

[Diddy Kong]

tbh Melee's roster lineup is pretty weird in general like that. Like, it has obvious stuff like Bowser, Peach, Zelda and Mewtwo, but with such a small newcomer lineup (barring clones), it's rather odd to think that Sakurai prioritized the likes of Ice Climbers, Mr. Game & Watch, and Sheik over Wario, Diddy Kong, and Dedede.

This. Exactly this. I agree fully. And would replace all these 3 characters for the 3 you mentioned in a heart beat without thinking twice.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Posts like that are why I'm glad the fans have no power.

 

[AlRex]

I enjoy stranger picks, but I dunno if I like Ice Climbers specifically, mostly because I don’t like the game itself. But that’s too specific an example. Moveset’s fine enough from the perspective of coming up with a moveset for them, though I do find the other retro characters (Game & Watch, ROB, Duck Hunt) more fun.

 

[Oddball]

I will always defend including the weird obscure characters in crossovers and fighting games. There's a lot of good reasons for including them.

Obscure characters often bring unique abilities, fighting styles, and backstories that can make the game more diverse and interesting. This variety can keep the gameplay fresh and exciting, preventing it from becoming monotonous.

Many obscure characters have cult followings. Including them can attract dedicated fans who appreciate these lesser-known fighters. It also taps into nostalgia, drawing in players who remember these characters from older games or media. In some cases (probably not for Smash, but it stands for other games) There are people that wouldn't even look at a game normally, but because it has Mr. Whoever they're all over it, because "he never gets in anything! Ever!)

Developers are also able to exercise more creative freedom with obscure characters. They aren’t bound by the expectations that come with more iconic characters, allowing for innovative and experimental designs and movesets. These weird characters can introduce new mechanics and strategies, which can help balance the roster. They can counteract the dominance of more conventional characters, adding depth to the competitive scene.

And frankly, unique and quirky characters tend to become memorable parts of the game. They stand out in players’ minds in ways the safe picks don't, contributing to the game’s identity and just making it more memorable overall.

 

[ScrubReborn]

I will always defend including Mr. Game & Watch because he has the haha funny Judge #9

 

[UserKev]

While we're on the topic of retro obscure representation and I know this is more of me complaining rather than addressing an " unpopular opinion" Duck Hunt Dog is a bleak pick that is supposed to work. Creative yet unapologetically degraded. I know he's suffered tremendous indifferent wagons upon his reveal but he's a worst case of a last minute retro overshadowed by Little Mac.

 

[Champion of Hyrule]

While we're on the topic of retro obscure representation and I know this is more of me complaining rather than addressing an " unpopular opinion" Duck Hunt Dog is a bleak pick that is supposed to work. Creative yet unapologetically degraded. I know he's suffered tremendous indifferent wagons upon his reveal but he's a worst case of a last minute retro overshadowed by Little Mac.

what

 

[Swamp Sensei]

While we're on the topic of retro obscure representation and I know this is more of me complaining rather than addressing an " unpopular opinion" Duck Hunt Dog is a bleak pick that is supposed to work. Creative yet unapologetically degraded. I know he's suffered tremendous indifferent wagons upon his reveal but he's a worst case of a last minute retro overshadowed by Little Mac.

I can't understand what you're saying, dude.

This post doesn't actually make sense.

 

[AlRex]

Duck Hunt is one of the best retro picks IMO, and is understandable from both recognizability and being a rather silly one at the surface level, allowing for creativity. I think they’re fairly underrated.

After the dog & duck, Mac, and ROB, and a few other obvious ones, I think ExciteBiker’s probably the last big NES retro character to add that many would recognize, plus being on a motorcycle is generally be pretty inherently unique. Mach Rider’s also around, but less recognizable and doesn’t have too many sequels. You can vary on whether that makes them a better or worse or neutral on either/or. They do have actual weapons, though.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

The Smash team would never do this, but I'd love for a combination of color customization, custom moves returning, & selective weight changes to allow you to essentially make your own quasi echo fighter. Want a heavier/slower Dark Link? That's an option. A Big Boss oriented around defensive special moves? You can do it. A chaotic Galacta Knight? Now on the table.

 

[Champion of Hyrule]

A bokoblin with a moveset themed around BotW/TotK is a genuinely great, slept on newcomer idea.

Yes there are a couple of fighters like Impa or Tingle who should be in before it, but a guy can dream.

 

[UserKev]

I've been saying a return of custom moves is needed for a long time now. Really love LiveStudioAudience's spin on it. Likely it being one of the only interesting features left to utilize.

 

[Ze Diglett]

Back with more scalding-hot takes that would probably get me crucified on Reddit: I've already mentioned this in the NASB2 thread, but I think Everyone Is Here was genuinely a net negative. I'm not even talking about the stuff we lost to make room for it like trophies and stages, though that certainly doesn't help. I just think less can absolutely be more and not every addition to a game is additive, which is something I wish more people appreciated in the age of live-service slop and bloated filesizes. Snake, for instance, was pretty obviously a good grab, Wolf was sorely missed, and Pokemon Trainer was a concept that definitely deserved a second chance, but how much worse would the game be if it didn't have three Links? Was keeping Corrin worth it for a cheesy marketing gimmick? Would Dark Pit really be missed? Before someone comes in with the inevitable snarky "Yes, I would," I obviously know every character is statistically someone's favorite. This does not mean every inclusion is equally valid or that we should never have cuts. Cuts aren't an intrinsic bad like some (i.e. Smash fans) are convinced they are, and this is coming from a guy who lost his main as a kid. They're a healthy part of most fighting games that can make way for fun, new ideas while giving people time to miss the oldies and make their eventual comeback more impactful. This is why I view Mewtwo's absence in Brawl, baffling a decision as it was, as a net positive since it made his return in Smash 4 that much cooler. On the extreme end, I actually think rotating rosters for fighting games are pretty cool for this reason, and it's also why I think it'd be a largely good thing for the next Smash game to be a departure from Ultimate. Now that we've had all the characters in one game, we can definitely afford to trim some fat roster-wise.

That's to say nothing of how EIH has tainted other crossover fighter discourse, but just look at what the NASB2 thread was like from August to November last year if you wanna know about all that.

 

[Baysha]

On the extreme end, I actually think rotating rosters for fighting games are pretty cool for this reason, and it's also why I think it'd be a largely good thing for the next Smash game to be a departure from Ultimate. Now that we've had all the characters in one game, we can definitely afford to trim some fat roster-wise.

I find it a little ironic that series with heavy cuts end up with more unique characters in the long run than trying to keep as much characters as possible.

 

[Ze Diglett]

I find it a little ironic that series with heavy cuts end up with more unique characters in the long run than trying to keep as much characters as possible.

Exactly. Street Fighter's a pretty well-known example of this to the point that one of its standout installments famously cut everyone from the previous game except Ken and Ryu, only adding Akuma and Chun-Li back later. That game's still a lot of people's favorite due to the cool new characters and how uniquely it plays. Bit of food for thought for the "Ultimate Deluxe or riot" crowd.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Exactly. Street Fighter's a pretty well-known example of this to the point that one of its standout installments famously cut everyone from the previous game except Ken and Ryu, only adding Akuma and Chun-Li back later. That game's still a lot of people's favorite due to the cool new characters and how uniquely it plays. Bit of food for thought for the "Ultimate Deluxe or riot" crowd.

That's blatantly ignoring the history of that game having a rough start over the cast replacement.

People look back at the newer characters fondly nowadays, but it's revisionist to claim people favorited it over the "cool new characters" back when it was new.

 

[Guynamednelson]

That's blatantly ignoring the history of that game having a rough start over the cast replacement.

People look back at the newer characters fondly nowadays, but it's revisionist to claim people favorited it over the "cool new characters" back when it was new.

And even then, the most popular characters to play as in SFIII include the SFII vets, and Capcom's never tried pulling an SFIII on the cast in later Street Fighters.

And let's face it, no matter how many cuts the next Smash has to make, and I believe it's gonna have to make some, it's not gonna be as drastic as SFIII.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

That's blatantly ignoring the history of that game having a rough start over the cast replacement.

People look back at the newer characters fondly nowadays, but it's revisionist to claim people favorited it over the "cool new characters" back when it was new.

To add to this, Street Fighter newcomers are usually some of the least popular characters in a game. They have to be really special like Juri or Rashid to actually be super popular. There's a reason newcomer trailers don't get nearly as much hype or spotlight as veterans returning in most fighting games.

 

[UserKev]

I can't stress this enough. Bowser really need to take into his magic side again. Slap on his teleportation / Invisible abilities from Super Mario 64 and a bit more fire power.

 

[Ze Diglett]

That's blatantly ignoring the history of that game having a rough start over the cast replacement.

People look back at the newer characters fondly nowadays, but it's revisionist to claim people favorited it over the "cool new characters" back when it was new.

I don't think I ever said SFIII was always super popular? That's a pretty gross misinterpretation of what I said. Obviously it had an uphill battle with most of II's cast slashed; I'm saying it's a popular game to the point that it's still run as a main-stage event at EVO where the rest of the non-current SF lineup is nowhere to be seen. You can argue that's more due to the gameplay than the roster, but if anything, that's evidence that a game with a "worse" roster can prevail on other merits that a change in focus can provide.

To add to this, Street Fighter newcomers are usually some of the least popular characters in a game. They have to be really special like Juri or Rashid to actually be super popular. There's a reason newcomer trailers don't get nearly as much hype or spotlight as veterans returning in most fighting games.

I mean, sure, but that comes with the territory of new characters having to prove themselves versus established faces. Of course a character will be more popular when people have them in their hands; doesn't mean it's a bad idea to add new guys or you should prioritize veterans over new faces. Personally, even if my main gets cut, I see it as a chance to try characters I'd never look at otherwise. (Source: My Rivals of Aether main isn't in Rivals 2 and never will be, but I've been having a blast with Loxodont even though he's the polar opposite of my original main.) It's all about keeping an open mind.

 

[AlRex]

Honestly, there are almost a near limitless level of experiments they could do with the roster/gameplay/overall theming in tandem with both that could be wildly different, though I don’t expect they’ll do many of them. The SFIII route, a 3D one, an official 2D pixel art one, “Nintendo VS Everyone Else”, “what if the series started earlier or later”, those are my usual favorites to think about that I sometimes see others do, mainly the last one. I’d appreciate a new approach like this and am not anywhere near attached to “Everyone is Here”, but I understand that it would be a big risk.

 

[Champion of Hyrule]

Upon reflection, oversaturation is the biggest problem with Ultimate’s DLC picks.

People complain about too many “anime” styled characters but all the DLC characters are pretty popular characters and they have enough to merit an addition on their own. The problem is that it feels like there was a lack of variety. Besides Steve and Banjo there was basically all realistic human characters and a noticeable focus towards RPG’s, especially ones popular in Japan. Some big genres like shooters are completely absent and there weren’t any indie games which felt a little disappointing. Maybe it’s just a me problem but I think variety is very important for a roster like this.

I don’t wanna say something silly like the “too many swordfighters” line because I don’t think anyone’s bad individually but yeah there was absolutely an over saturation of a certain type of fighter here. I feel similarly about gimmicky movesets but that’s another discussion.

 

[MasterCheef]

The reps who folks here are most excited for are boring.

My Top Most Wanted

codename : Legacy = XenoBlade Origins : protagonist
Noah + ( Mio = echo )
Officer Howard – Astral Chain
Iron Valiant ( Pokemon )
Tabuu

Vault Boy
Yumia ( Ryza = Alt ) = Atelier , via , Koei Tecmo
Harvard , from ; Deca Police
( Ahri & Lux ) - League of Legends , via Riot Games
Master Chief & Arbiter ( Halo )

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

Upon reflection, oversaturation is the biggest problem with Ultimate’s DLC picks.

People complain about too many “anime” styled characters but all the DLC characters are pretty popular characters and they have enough to merit an addition on their own. The problem is that it feels like there was a lack of variety. Besides Steve and Banjo there was basically all realistic human characters and a noticeable focus towards RPG’s, especially ones popular in Japan. Some big genres like shooters are completely absent and there weren’t any indie games which felt a little disappointing. Maybe it’s just a me problem but I think variety is very important for a roster like this.

I don’t wanna say something silly like the “too many swordfighters” line because I don’t think anyone’s bad individually but yeah there was absolutely an over saturation of a certain type of fighter here. I feel similarly about gimmicky movesets but that’s another discussion.

I swear, it feels like they doubled down on all the DLC choices they made in Smash 4 as a basis. Even in my head, that sounds absurd, but I genuinely have a hard time choosing a non-Microsoft DLC pick from Ultimate that lacks one of the DLC archetypes present in Smash 4. Obviously barring the veteran DLC Smash 4 had, there's still the fighter franchise introduction, the out of nowhere RPG introduction, the Fire Emblem promo, and the finale being this big deal made out of being a "ballot winner". It's absurd how similar the cycles were... though it wasn't really fun to speculate around the second time.

 

[darkvortex]

The reps who folks here are most excited for are boring.

My Top Most Wanted

who specificly do you find boring

 

[MasterCheef]

who specifically do you find boring

Most any character who is touted more because they are liked for the game the game / series they come from rather than the GAME-PLAY they bring to smash