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AlRex
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  • If I made a fighter with original characters, I’d let a bunch of friends I know design characters/put in their OCs (like, original original, not a Sonic character or something), or if we were trying to design for a “cohesive” cast, I’d look to something like Waku Waku 7, Clay Fighter (minus the offensive ones), King of the Monsters, Kinnikuman, slight bits of Killer Instinct, wrestling, kaiju, and 80’s/90’s toys and cartoons for inspiration. I would want the cast to be a bit weird, regardless.
    Another “if I did a Smash fan game” post: Goku wouldn’t get in, and the primary “Fourth Party” characters would be, like, Popeye, James Bond, the Ninja Turtles, SpongeBob maybe for his platformers/NASB, maybe a few other toons like Mickey, or even Felix or Bugs, Tony Hawk, Shaq even, Darth Vader, or Godzilla…perhaps listing too much already. But the only anime characters that would get in would be Astro Boy and maybe Sailor Moon and Hamtaro.
    I don't have use for these much, but I tinker around sometimes in my spare time with my versions of a few shared universes. The general rule for them is that there is real time aging to the characters (rather than a sliding timeline) and to varying extents, everything licensed is included. So we have a Marvel that also includes a lot of Hasbro, Disney, Godzilla, etc., DC with various Warner properties, Image including TMNT, Power Rangers, and other Nickelodeon series (mostly because of TMNT), a Horrorverse, and a Smash-verse that ends up including most other video games.

    There's a bunch of weird, screwy explanations for certain things fitting together, but mostly, I'm half-reapplying them to a less copyright-infringing OC universe of mine. But Spawn, the Ninja Turtles, and SpongeBob teaming up to take on Cthulhu and a Marvel team with the Kool-Aid Man, RoboCop, and Jem (from Jem & the Holograms, who I also made Hannah Montana's mom) are kind of funny.
    A lot of NES Smash Bros. versions I see seem somewhat unrealistic. Go figure. If you were to actually make a functional version of that, look at Konami Wai Wai World, the NES version of TMNT Tournament Fighters, and that Double Dragon fighting mode. Wouldn’t be surprised if you just had 4, maybe 5, 6 at most, playable characters. And at least one would be a palette swap (Luigi, probably). A pretty good roster that represents the NES, but isn’t 100% beholden to the limitations, is the MUGEN project Famicom Fighters. If you’ve never heard of it, check it out.
    AlRex
    AlRex
    Keeping all of this in mind, the main game would basically be a beat-em-up/platformer-ish sort of thing where you could pick between Mario, Luigi, Link, Samus, and Pit, traverse several worlds based on their games (Mario gets the most, mostly because you could get a Donkey Kong boss at a construction sight, the obvious Bowser’s Castle/Mushroom Kingdom, and even Subcon with Wart). The VS mode would start as being something on the side like the Double Dragon one, but it’d be developed further on the SNES, with 8 characters and 4 bosses that become playable later, like Street Fighter II.
    AlRex
    AlRex
    Joy Mech Fight only really works as a more advanced fighter (relatively speaking) with multiple options because 1. It came out after Street Fighter II, Fatal Fury, Mortal Kombat, etc. and 2. Unlike the TMNT port and all those bootleg games, the characters have simple designs with separated limbs.
    Based on Wario X3’s post from the other day about the various companies splitting off to make their own platform fighters, here’s a Namco-Bandai platform fighter roster! Probably some flawed choicing and exclusions, but I dunno. I’ll definitely say JRPGs and similar stuff are not my area of expertise. I think a Dark Souls boss or Elden Ring character as playable could be neat, but I don’t know enough there, either.

    PAC-MAN
    1. Pac-Man
    2. Ms. Pac-Man
    3. Ghost [Character with multiple Alts.]
    4. Miru (Pac & Pal)
    DIG DUG/MR. DRILLER
    1. Taizo Hori
    2. Pooka & Fygar
    3. Masuyo Toby
    4. Mr. Driller
    OTHER 80’S ARCADE CHARACTERS
    1. Gyaraga (Galaga)
    2. Mappy
    3. Wonder Momo
    4. Bravoman
    5. Gilgamesh (Tower of Druaga)
    6. Valkyrie (Valkyrie no Densetsu)
    7. Taira no Kagekiyo (Genpei Toma Den)
    8. Albatross (Rolling Thunder)
    9. Rick Taylor (Splatterhouse)
    10. Hiromi Tengenji (Burning Force)
    TEKKEN
    1. Jin or Kazuya
    2. Heihachi Mishima
    3. Nina Williams
    4. Yoshimitsu
    5. Roger Jr.
    SOUL CALIBUR
    1. Nightmare/Siegfried
    2. Ivy Valentine
    3. Cervantes de Leon
    4. Voldo
    5. Aeon Calcos [AKA Lizardman]
    DARK SOULS
    1. The Chosen Undead
    2. The Ashen One
    3. Solaire
    DIGIMON
    1. Agumon/Greymon/WarGreymon
    2. Etemon
    3. Renamon
    4. Angemon/Angewomon
    TAMAGOTCHI
    1. Mametchi
    .HACK
    1. Kite
    TALES OF
    1. Cless Alvin
    2. Lloyd Irving
    3. Yuri Lowell
    4. Milla Maxwell
    XENOSAGA
    1. KOS-MOS
    KLONOA
    1. Klonoa
    2. Gantz
    KATAMARI DAMACY
    1. The Prince of All Cosmos
    TAIKO: DRUM MASTER
    1. Taiko
    IDOLMASTER
    1. Haruka Amami
    TIME CRISIS
    1. Richard Miller
    THE OUTFOXIES
    1. Dweeb

    NAMCO X CAPCOM
    1. Reiji & Xiaomu (Namco X CAPCOM)
    GUEST STARS
    1. Son-Goku (Dragon Ball/Z/GT/Super/Heroes/Poggers/Epic/too many subtitles)
    2. Mobile Suit Gundam
    Yet another roster. The rule here is one per company, and none of them are originally from fighting games. Also Melee-sized because I didn't want to over-extend it, I guess.
    1. Mario [Nintendo]
    2. Sonic [SEGA]
    3. Mega Man [CAPCOM]
    4. Pac-Man [Namco-Bandai] [Credit for the render to Nibroc.Rock]
    5. Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy VII) [Square-Enix]
    6. Snake (Metal Gear) [Konami]
    7. Rayman [Ubisoft]
    8. Master Chief (Halo) [Microsoft]
    9. Kratos (God of War) [Sony]
    10. Ryu Hayabusa (Ninja Gaiden) [Tecmo-Koei]
    11. Tetris [The Tetris Company]
    12. Jonesy (Fortnite) [Epic Games]
    13. Travis Touchdown (No More Heroes) [Grasshopper Manufacture?]
    14. Centipede [Atari]
    15. Chell (Portal) [Valve]
    16. Maxwell (Scribblenauts) [Warner Games]
    17. CJ (Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas) [Rockstar]
    18. Duke Nukem [Gearbox]
    19. Crazy Dave (Plants VS Zombies) [PopCap/EA]
    20. Red (Angry Birds) [Rovio]
    21. Carmen Sandiego [Broderbund or whoever it is now]
    22. Quote (Cave Story) [Pixel]
    23. Reimu Hakurei (Touhou Project) [Team Shanghai Alice]
    24. Shovel Knight [Yacht Club Games]
    25. Sans (Undertale) [Toby Fox]

    Company buyouts make this trickier. Wowie.
    Here’s something that is potentially helpful to to creation threads, but is probably just a weird thought experiment.

    Equivalent to Mario, Pac-Man, and Mr. Game & Watch for other mediums.
    Mario = largely successful character in the medium, not the first, but is still successful in some form.
    Pac-Man = one of the first big successes in the medium, almost as iconic as the “Mario”, but not as commonly used.
    Mr. Game & Watch = stylistically different, out of left field for a fighting game, not the first character you might think of, but very evocative of a much earlier time in the medium.

    Movies: Godzilla, King Kong, the Tramp (Charlie Chaplin)

    TV: The Doctor (Doctor Who) or Kermit the Frog(?), Captain Kirk, Marshal Matt Dillon (Gunsmoke)

    Animation: Mickey Mouse, Felix the Cat, Gertie the Dinosaur

    Comics: Superman, Popeye, Krazy Kat

    Anime/Manga: Goku, Astro Boy, 8th Man or Sally the Witch

    Literature: Sherlock Holmes or Dracula or Frankenstein’s Monster, Robin Hood, John Carter

    Advertising: Ronald McDonald, Mr. Peanut, the Michelin Man(?)

    Toys: Optimus Prime or Barbie, GI Joe, Slinky(?)

    You can tell I have uncertainty on some choices, but it was interesting to think about.
    I consider Smash fangames/mods to have different priorities for who they add than actual Smash. There are some obvious/recurring ones for both veterans and newcomers, but you don't have to include every veteran necessarily, for one thing. If I had the full skills/a team to make one, it'd be a lot like the Smash of Another Universe thread in terms of the overall roster, though it may have slightly more of the veterans if it was explicitly labelled "Smash Bros." Also the non-VG character(s) probably would be Tony Hawk, Darth Vader, Spider-Man, James Bond, or someone else like that before Goku. Wowie.
    Wario Wario Wario
    Wario Wario Wario
    If I were making a Smash fangame, I just wouldn't have veterans, full stop. Nobody picks up Crusade or Flash 2 and actively decides to play as Samus or Yoshi. Maybe a few fully reworked or variant veterans (Sonic? sports Daisy?) but really all that time is best used on newcomers people are actually going to play as.
    AlRex
    AlRex
    Even more drastic: Video Game Historia's Smash veteran inclusions.
    64: Mario, Donkey Kong, Link, Samus Aran, Kirby, Pikachu, Luigi(?)
    Melee: Possibly Bowser and then maybe Zelda, Ganon, and Peach, in that order, but they're much less prioritized than Bowser. Mewtwo or one of the later gen Pokémon as a separate Pokémon character.
    Brawl: Snake, Sonic*
    4: Villager(?), Pac-Man, Mega Man, Cloud(?), Ryu
    Ultimate: Simon and/or Richter, Hero, Terry, Steve/Alex, Sephiroth(?), Sora(?)

    Undecided between Duck Hunt, Little Mac, and ROB for my big retro-oriented Nintendo pick, but perhaps the Mario Bros., DK, Link, and Samus are enough in that regard. I like Mr. Game & Watch, but it could potentially be more interesting to have Agumon as an LCD character, although Crusade already had him. I'm undecided whether I'd just stick with FF7 and KH as the Final Fantasy/FF-adjacent characters, but I feel like at least one of them should be in.
    AlRex
    AlRex
    Wario Wario Wario Wario Wario Wario I would say it'd depend on the aim of it, and if I wanted to do a whole lot different with some of the characters, but I'd agree that I would want to prioritize new characters, content, etc. that'd make people want to take their time out to play it over regular Smash and other fangames.
    • Like
    Reactions: Baysha
    Here's my Amalgam Comics Thread nowww
    It'll probably be slower going than Pop Culture Clash, but still.
    For those who want, I have made this! https://discord.gg/kXVFav4m A Discord server for Pop Culture Clash! I hope it is fun and useful in some way.
    Another fighting game idea: Public Versus Domain. Marvel/Tatsunoko VS CAPCOM style fighter comprised of public domain characters. Do it with cel-shaded 3D or CPS2-styled sprites, could be a good indie game among other retro-style revivals. Or a creation thread, you can have this for free, I only really want to run Pop Culture Clash for the time being.
    I have a checklist of characters I think should fill out the overall representation rosters (eight of each category) in Pop Culture Clash, but do not let that intimidate you from your stranger submissions. Keep those coming (if you're so inclined)!
    Aside from Pop Culture Clash’s concept as a fighting game, I’ve also thought of, along similar lines, a pop culture racing game and an RTS war game sort of thing with various bad guys and their armies (mostly video games, but you could include, like, the FOOT Clan, the Empire, etc.). Maybe if I do another game creation thread, it’ll be one of those. Then again, I kind of fell off of my Nintendo/Smash Cinematic Universe one. Eep. Regardless, does anything else work with the “Pop Culture Clash” sort of idea? Party game that mixes different board game types? Sports mix? Who knows?
    Could a platform fighter work with a very gritty, violent, not as cartoony aesthetic? Or like, 80's/90's horror type stuff, which is still somewhat cartoony, just a different kind. M-Rated platform fighter. Yea
    For a wider video game roster, would it be best to add the duo from Double Dragon, River City Ransom, or River City Girls?
    Cool, but potentially unfeasible idea for a fan game, in a similar vein to Super Mario Crossover, Super Clash Bros., and Mushroom Kingdom Fusion (if you haven't heard of them, go check those out): a 2D platformer/sidescroller game that's partially an engine for adding in characters, levels, power-ups (perhaps specific to certain stages), etc. but also comes in with a decent baseline of content to play with from the get-go. Make the engine for adding content readily available and very accessible, similar to what Fraymakers is doing. You can also put in multiplayer, and possibly a side VS mode that's similar to Super Clash Bros. where you can duke it out with various mechanically different characters on smaller maps. Perhaps this is thinking too pie-in-the-sky, especially given, again, I can't program and can barely sprite.
    AlRex
    AlRex
    If I were doing a baseline of characters, if I'm less concerned about copyrights, I'd put Mario, Link, Mega Man, Sonic, Rash (Battletoads), and someone not really associated with 2D sidescrollers (Lara Croft? CJ? Master Chief? DOOMGuy? Kratos? Who knows?) to have some fairly mechanically different characters that show different approaches to these kinds of games and scenarios you could encounter within them. If I were doing it like Rivals of Aether where the community is more who makes it MUGEN-esque, baseline would still be chosen with that idea in mind, but I'd reach out to people I know and, if I can get more notice, certain indie developers to do the base game's characters. There'd also be officially updated/added ones by the team itself, either way.
    AlRex
    AlRex
    Link's not really associated with 2D sidescollers, either, but he's been in a lot of these kinds of games and mechanically doesn't translate too poorly. Or you can just go with basing it off of Zelda 2's Link, sure.
    AlRex
    AlRex
    It would not devalue Smash to do Nintendo VS CAPCOM or Nintendo Kart or whatever any more than, like, Marvel and DC characters in Fortnite or the LEGO Marvel/DC games would devalue Marvel VS CAPCOM, Injustice, or a Marvel VS DC movie/game or what-have-you.
    Wario Wario Wario
    Wario Wario Wario
    Why is Capcom in all caps

    Anyway, the anti-Crossroads buzz isn't about "devaluing Smash", it's about devaluing Mario Kart, by removing its consistent tone; ability to create new courses; and the wide pool of Mario characters to draw from.
    AlRex
    AlRex
    Wario Wario Wario Wario Wario Wario Sometimes I write it like that, I guess. This isn't about that Crossroads reaction in particular, more so people saying that sometimes about other crossovers in relation to Smash. As for the Crossroads reaction, you can probably already tell that I think the negative reaction is a tad overblown and perhaps dramatic in proportion to what it actually is. I don't think they're going to do anything that interesting with a straightforward Mario Kart 9 based on what I've seen in the past, though I haven't really been invested in Mario Kart past 64 and Double Dash personally, so I'm probably not the best gauge on it, but to me it's like getting concerned about the integrity of Hot Shots Golf or getting angry that Shrek and Spider-Man are in Tony Hawk's Pro Skater.
    My potentially unpopular opinion is that I’m fine with Mario Kart turning into a general Nintendo crossover precisely because I do not expect them to do anything interesting with a solely Mario-focused roster any more or pull out any interesting deep cuts from that series. That said, sure, a Goomba should get in eventually.
    CAPCOM VS SNK, Puyo Puyo Tetris, Battletoads & Double Dragon, Street Fighter X Tekken, Crash and Spyro, that DOOM mod that includes Duke Nukem, Quake guy, and Chex Man, Mario & Sonic...at the Olympics...what other genre-definers or long-running rivals crossing together can I think of, ranging from somewhat sensible to nonsensical?

    -Street Fighter VS Mortal Kombat. General aesthetic hovers somewhere around Fist of the North Star, Berserk, Hellsing, etc. Gameplay is fast and hits hard. There is blood sometimes, but not necessarily fatalities rather than massive, ridiculous super moves that can also be brutal.
    -Mario & Sonic as an actual platformer where both's different mechanics and level design types come into play, giving you multiple ways to play through the game. Main playable characters are Mario, Luigi, Sonic, and Tails, though you can also unlock either Peach, Wario, Donkey Kong, Knuckles, Amy Rose, Blaze, and, for some reason, Alex Kidd and an updated Zelda 2-esque Link.
    -Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest. It's not a board game. But instead it's uhhh. Dang, I dunno how to make this substantially different enough from both to warrant it being a crossover. That'd mostly be in the plot forcing heroes from different dimensions, yada yada yada...
    -Metal Slug and Contra. Pretty simple run and gun that allows the use of power-ups from both series. Also has both the tank segments and the back-view hallway segments. DLC gives you Gunstar Heroes and Ikari Warriors somehow.
    -Resident Evil and Silent Hill. Umbrella decides to unleash the T-Virus into Silent Hill, creating who knows what. Your characters are sent in to deal with all that.
    -NBA Jam and Tony Hawk's Pro Skater. Basketball on skateboards. Do tricks for extra points. Also has a lot of ridiculous guest characters.
    -Tomb Raider and Uncharted. They're both competing for the same treasure, you can take two story-paths, one for Lara, one for Nathan. Seems pretty simple.
    -God of War and Devil May Cry and Bayonetta. They're all forced to team up to take on literal Satan. Because less people will object to that than literal God.
    -Carmen Sandiego and Mavis Beacon. Carmen steals the written word and you have to type it all up again to recover it.
    Alright, I'm running on fumes now. You can probably think of more, as well.
    If I did a Smash fangame (I can barely do sprites and I can't code, plus other projects/things in life, so not happening any time soon), I probably would heavily focus it in some way, rather than just making "another Smash fangame", so to speak. I'd probably either make it a version that is heavily focused on the "gaming history" aspect, or make it a crossover with a slightly copyright dodging acronym name, like NVC, NVS, NVD, NVW, NVN, etc. What are all those? You can guess, I suppose. NVS could be like three things, at least.
    Marvel fought CAPCOM, DC fought Mortal Kombat/Warner Games/Midway (next Injustice game can throw in Rampage monsters, Sinistar, a Knight on an Ostrich, etc., sure), the Ninja Turtles fought uhh Rabbids and Nickelodeon. Sure. What other "comic company VS a video gamer company/series" thing could there be?

    Image Comics, I'd place up against either Namco-Bandai, due to preexisting crossovers (Negan in Tekken 7, Spawn in Soul Calibur 2), or ArcSys, given Guilty Gear feels like edgy 90's anime stuff of a sort and that'd match well with Spawn and Battle Chasers, at least. I'd kind of like to see those characters, Savage Dragon, Witchblade, the Darkness, Invincible, Shadowhawk, etc. filtered through that flashy anime style. I guess a version of that for Witchblade sort of exists already. Huh.

    Dark Horse Comics feels like it has a dark edge to it with things like Hellboy, the Mask (in the original comics), Ghost, Grendel, Concrete, etc., but has a different sort of vibe to it than what you'd think of for Image's 90's output. It's apparently owned by a video game company now? They own...Gearbox and THQ, I guess. I have not much clue here. The only things I sort of know from Gearbox are Borderlands and Duke Nukem, I think? Duke probably fits pretty well in the Image roster, unless you remember Barb Wire. I guess if I were to go with one, I'd pick Namco if Image takes ArcSys. Usagi Yojimbo kind of fits alongside the likes of Yoshimitsu and Taki, I suppose. Then again, both Image and Dark Horse have a bunch of characters that kind of switch around from publisher to publisher, mostly because they both have a "creator owns the character" policy, for the most part. That's an over-simplification, and they sometimes have their own issues, to say the least, but it's at least a bit better than Marvel and DC's policies. Anyways...

    Perhaps the true way to represent this and do an indie spiritual successor to Marvel VS CAPCOM is to take whoever ends up in Fraymakers/games like Fraymakers and pit them up against whoever you can get from this: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/war-of-the-independents/4050-45034/ MVC-type game with the Tick, Gumby, and SCUD the Disposable Assassin VS Shovel Knight, Commander Video, and OctoDad? Sure, why not?

    IDW is mostly licenses, BOOM Studios is mostly licenses, I am doubting either will do big crossover games with all of those licenses, as tempting as Optimus Prime VS Sonic VS Judge Dredd or RoboCop VS Power Rangers VS John McClane sounds. Not really much coherent here. Hasbro VS someone, sure. Judge Dredd/RoboCop crossover? Makes sense. SEGA VS Archie, since they have a past together? Most of Archie's roster by itself is humans (who sometimes get involved with weird things, don't get me wrong), a witch, and a bunch of superheroes you've never heard of. So it's either mostly non-combatants or mostly obscurities. Your mileage may vary.

    Scott Pilgrim had a successful enough video game, some even like it a bit more than the comic or movie (I think all three are pretty alright). Maybe they can cross over with River City Girls/Ransom, which is owned by...ArcSys. Go figure.

    Type-Moon VS King Features Syndicate. Apparently licensing for Popeye costs very little. I'm just throwing random things against the wall now. But a comic strip characters fighting game would be fun. Garfield's probably not gonna be in it, though, because he's busy. He crossed over with Cuphead, as well, sort of. Maybe King Features VS Microsoft instead? The fight we've all been waiting to see: the Phantom VS Voodoo Vince. Certainly.

    I don't exactly know where I'm going with all this. A new TMNT fighter would be neat. Maybe just do that, and later on the Street Sharks, Battletoads, etc. can be guest DLC.

    None of this is likely, I realize. Don't worry about it.
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