Unpopular Smash Opinions (BE CIVIL)

[LiveStudioAudience]

A road trip movie that's a spiritual remake of Planes, Trains, and Automobiles with Mario as Neal and Sonic as Del.

 

[MBRedboy31]

Thinking about it, I can see why the previous Mario and Sonic crossovers were at the Olympics; it let them be competitive with each other without them being hostile to each other. Maybe they’d find a way to bring about a similar level of competitiveness between them.

 

[DragonRobotKing26]

How would a Mario vs Sonic movie even work? Yeah they're Rivals in a meta sense but there's really nothing in their characters that would compell them to be opposed in any interesting manner

that's a good question, since that Sonic movies are made by Paramount and Mario movie is made by Illumination/Universal, and nobody knows if happens a collab between these companies

 

[RileyXY1]

I think it'd be kinda funny if they did a Smash movie but without any of those properties. Like one of the TV versions of the Justice League where they couldn't get the rights for Batman, Superman or Wonder Woman.

It would also be like the early MCU where they didn't have access to many of the more popular Marvel heroes because their film rights were with other companies.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I doubt a Smash movie is a good idea with how vastly different all the new Nintendo (and not to mention Sonic as well) movies are from one and other.

But I would be down for the idea of a standalone animated series based on it. You could have episodes dedicated to specific fights as well as an overarching story based on either the Subspace Emissary, World of Light, or maybe both. I feel like it'd be a good opportunity for more video game characters to be able to speak outside of their home series games (more so if they're not especially talkative or otherwise don't have many reasons talk in the games to begin with) as well as for characters from various different Nintendo and other video game company IPs to interact, something we haven't seen much of at all since the SSE and one cutscene in Ultimate, and the former case is pretty much completely devoid of dialogue.

I honestly think it's a concept that could be done very well. It'd just need to be a standalone project that spans several episodes instead of one or more films as part of some kind of incoherent cinematic universe.

 

[SharkLord]

I doubt a Smash movie is a good idea with how vastly different all the new Nintendo (and not to mention Sonic as well) movies are from one and other.

But I would be down for the idea of a standalone animated series based on it. You could have episodes dedicated to specific fights as well as an overarching story based on either the Subspace Emissary, World of Light, or maybe both. I feel like it'd be a good opportunity for more video game characters to be able to speak outside of their home series games (more so if they're not especially talkative or otherwise don't have many reasons talk in the games to begin with) as well as for characters from various different Nintendo and other video game company IPs to interact, something we haven't seen much of at all since the SSE and one cutscene in Ultimate, and the former case is pretty much completely devoid of dialogue.

I honestly think it's a concept that could be done very well. It'd just need to be a standalone project that spans several episodes instead of one or more films as part of some kind of incoherent cinematic universe.

It would be fun if we had some quick animations outside the character reveals. Not necessarily a serialized thing, or even a full episode, but just some fun crossover antics they won't have a chance to do in the trailers or the game itself.

 

[Deleted member]

Personally, I found the Snake Codecs to be way funnier than Palutena's Guidances.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I think Smash not adding DLC Palutena Guidances is genuinely below standard compared to any other fighting games, I understand the reason for Snake's Codecs not getting updated, partially because of Colonel Campbell being retired by Kojima after his Seiyuu died, but I still disagree with this decision, especially as I'm 70% sure it's motivated by the English cast being union actors. Fighting games bring back the cast for character interactions constantly, hell, a relatively recent one that stays with me was a Guilty Gear Strive patch giving Sol and Bridget a unique interaction despite Bridget being out for years at that point. Ultimate bringing anyone back at least makes it better than "WOAH WHO IS THIS I HAVE NO DATA ON FIGHTER*checks notes* WHO IS THIS?!?" And it was Lucas

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

It is true that after seeing Mortal Kombat make unique voiced interactions between all the various character encounters that Smash Ultimate not even doing new Guidance audios for DLC fighters does come off as pretty underwhelming.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The developers obviously didn't want to bring back the voice actors for Pit, Palutena, and Viridi, so a placeholder guidance was set up for the DLC fighters. But knowing that the Piranha Plant has its own guidance does indicate that it was originally planned to be in the base game; time constraints were what relegated the Piranha Plant to being DLC, and as a consequence, it doesn't appear in ANY spirit battles.

 

[MartianSnake]

The developers obviously didn't want to bring back the voice actors for Pit, Palutena, and Viridi, so a placeholder guidance was set up for the DLC fighters. But knowing that the Piranha Plant has its own guidance does indicate that it was originally planned to be in the base game; time constraints were what relegated the Piranha Plant to being DLC, and as a consequence, it doesn't appear in ANY spirit battles.

I don't think he was ever planned to be in the base game, just planned early enough to where they could record a guidance for him

I feel like the fact the nipper plant spirit evolves into Petey Piranha is proof of this, as it's one of the biggest stretches for spirit evolution in the game. I think nipper was planned to evolve into Piranha Plant, but at some point in development they decided to make Piranha Plant a pre-order bonus and cut the spirit so they wouldn't have two Piranha Plant spirits.

I know min-min has two spirits, but she was planned well after game launch. I don't think Smash would ever be like "well we can't add this character if they already have a spirit" but in a situation like with Piranha Plant, if they had the opportunity to prevent two spirits of the same fighter, they'd take it.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

Speaking of spirit enhancements: while it's obviously not the game's biggest flaw, I think that if I'm to judge Ultimate on its intent as a fan-pleasing classic-reference-fest and not as the more gameplay-driven, deep-cutting game I want it to be, the biggest missed opportunity was not having a Badnik spirit that enhances into a Flicky.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Speaking of spirit enhancements: while it's obviously not the game's biggest flaw, I think that if I'm to judge Ultimate on its intent as a fan-pleasing classic-reference-fest and not as the more gameplay-driven, deep-cutting game I want it to be, the biggest missed opportunity was not having a Badnik spirit that enhances into a Flicky.

This is such a strange thing to say, calling it a missed opportunity, when a quick google search has the enhanceable spirits be stuff like a regular Boo to King Boo or 12 year old Rondo of Blood Maria Renard to 17 year old SotN Maria Renard, not having a car becoming it's battery is really not the gotcha you wish it to be

 

[Baysha]

This is such a strange thing to say, calling it a missed opportunity, when a quick google search has the enhanceable spirits be stuff like a regular Boo to King Boo or 12 year old Rondo of Blood Maria Renard to 17 year old SotN Maria Renard, not having a car becoming it's battery is really not the gotcha you wish it to be

I mean an enslaved animal becoming a not enslaved animal seems like an improvement

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I mean an enslaved animal becoming a not enslaved animal seems like an improvement

I agree on this part of Sonic the Hedgehog's political themes and countless other parts of the series' messages but that's not the point, my point is that the enhanced spirits became, well, enhanced. A badnik becoming an animal is the total opposite of that which is wrong when trying to say Smash Ultimate is strictly a crowd pleaser Reference game and then saying it could have been better at doing exactly that by doing this general theme wrong on purpose. I could just as well say a Chinese restaurant should serve me Mexican food if it wanted to be authentically Chinese, it's equally nonsense

 

[MartianSnake]

I agree on this part of Sonic the Hedgehog's political themes and countless other parts of the series' messages but that's not the point, my point is that the enhanced spirits became, well, enhanced. A badnik becoming an animal is the total opposite of that which is wrong when trying to say Smash Ultimate is strictly a crowd pleaser Reference game and then saying it could have been better at doing exactly that by doing this general theme wrong on purpose. I could just as well say a Chinese restaurant should serve me Mexican food if it wanted to be authentically Chinese, it's equally nonsense

I don't think it's that big a deal

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I don't think it's that big a deal

I'm not saying it's a big deal. I just think "If it's supposed to be a reference fest then they missed this one which goes against the theming" is contradictory. I wanna get a sense of understanding especially if I'm wrong here, I just don't get "If A, why not Z?"

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

I am not giving Ultimate's intent as a reason for my Flicky criticism, as much as a logic - in fact that post was not meant to be a dig at Ultimate even - it was meant to be "if I was to judge Ultimate for what it's aiming to do, be a flashy collection of memorable game moments, this is the most obvious reference it doesn't have within its gameplay structure", as I typically judge Ultimate more on what I believe it should've been rather than seeing eye-to-eye with what it is going for.

Also, Flicky is an enhancement, right? She has her own game where she outsmarts cats double her size to protect her chicks. That's gotta be worth an advanced if Motobug is a novice, right?

 

[Baysha]

I'm not saying it's a big deal. I just think "If it's supposed to be a reference fest then they missed this one which goes against the theming" is contradictory. I wanna get a sense of understanding especially if I'm wrong here, I just don't get "If A, why not Z?"

I think that what you might be missing here is that Flicky isn't a Sonic character, they're a Flicky character with their own (really good) game that cameoed in Sonic. So they'd likely get a spirit even if they didn't appear in Sonic

Edit:

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I think that what you might be missing here is that Flicky isn't a Sonic character, they're a Flicky character with their own (really good) game that cameoed in Sonic. So they'd likely get a spirit even if they didn't appear in Sonic

Edit:

Right, I'll be honest, completely forgot about that as Flickies are so synonymous with the Sonic series it's tricky to remember that detail, I know Dynamite Dux and Fighting Vipers have a similar thing but Bean and Honey are way, way less frequently appearing than the little birds in a good chunk of Sonic games. I'd argue that this gets muddied a bit if you're trying to reference a seperate IP as Flicky is of course, a Sega property, meaning there's the matter of corporate stuff, but I see what you two mean now

 

[MBRedboy31]

Speaking of spirit enhancements: while it's obviously not the game's biggest flaw, I think that if I'm to judge Ultimate on its intent as a fan-pleasing classic-reference-fest and not as the more gameplay-driven, deep-cutting game I want it to be, the biggest missed opportunity was not having a Badnik spirit that enhances into a Flicky.

You ought to play Dr. Robotnik’s Ring Racers if you haven’t yet, it pretty much has the reference you’re describing.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Speaking of spirit enhancements: while it's obviously not the game's biggest flaw, I think that if I'm to judge Ultimate on its intent as a fan-pleasing classic-reference-fest and not as the more gameplay-driven, deep-cutting game I want it to be, the biggest missed opportunity was not having a Badnik spirit that enhances into a Flicky.

What really bugs me is knowing that Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre appeared as spirits, but NOT Mega Rayquaza. That just feels wrong.

 

[Lenidem]

We don't need games like we don't need film. One can argue that dispelling gloom & ennui from the world is effectively an imperative.

Indeed, we need art and entertainment, not video games specifically.

simple, have jesse eisenburg play mephiles and rip off the plot of sonic 06 except instead of silver it's sonic who's being tricked into thinking chris pratt mario is a world ending threat, and then the movie becomes some weird political drama, and then they have big epic fight that ends on a truce once sonic realizes mario's mom has the same name as his mom, but then mario is sacrificed at the end to defeat doomsday iblis (also samus is shoehorned in)



then in the smash movie mario is resurrected with a weirdly cgied on mustache

... Somebody needs to create this. With an AI or whatever.

Yes, this, we absolutely need!

 

[TheZizz]

Indeed, we need art and entertainment, not video games specifically.

Thats like saying the world didn't need the Olympic games since there is theatre also. Those games were a breakthrough in human relations and possibly were instrumental in staving off the very extinction of our species

We need art & entertainment that doesn't suck, and inasmuch as games are the final bastion for "art for it's own sake", we need them.

 

[UserKev]

Thats like saying the world didn't need the Olympic games since there is theatre also. Those games were a breakthrough in human relations and possibly were instrumental in staving off the very extinction of our species

We need art & entertainment that doesn't suck, and inasmuch as games are the final bastion for "art for it's own sake", we need them.

I agree with this. You can't say we don't need video games when video games themselves exists as a form of entertainment. It's just a whole hearted baseless statement that hardly make sense.

 

[Lenidem]

Thats like saying the world didn't need the Olympic games since there is theatre also. Those games were a breakthrough in human relations and possibly were instrumental in staving off the very extinction of our species

To be honest, I don't really know all the cultural implications of the Olympics, but I doubt it saved the human race from extinction.

We need art & entertainment that doesn't suck

I agree.

and inasmuch as games are the final bastion for "art for it's own sake", we need them.

I disagree. Video games are not "the last bastion" of anything. There is still "art for its own sake" pretty much everywhere there is art.

I agree with this. You can't say we don't need video games when video games themselves exists as a form of entertainment. It's just a whole hearted baseless statement that hardly make sense.

As I said before, I do agree that we need entertainment. But video games are not the only form of entertainment, so as long as there is movies, mangas, comic books, music, litterature, poetry, theatre, dance, and so on, we don't need video games specifically. Being rude by calling this reasoning "baseless statement that hardly makes sense" doesn't disprove it.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

We don't need anything actually. Entertainment are still forms of leisure and luxury which are by definition wants, not needs.

Nothing is owed in this world. Idk why Video Games are being singled out on this

 

[TheZizz]

To be honest, I don't really know all the cultural implications of the Olympics, but I doubt it saved the human race from extinction.

I said it's probably instrumental, ie. one of several prongs vs. the notion of compulsive warmongering. Not accomplishing single-handedly, but essential nonetheless.

I disagree. Video games are not "the last bastion" of anything. There is still "art for its own sake" pretty much everywhere there is art.

I said inasmuch as they are, not absolutely. Bearing in mind the common trope that cultural sectors are prone to be infiltrated by people who put the cart before the horse, as it were. (Actually gamergate in particular is well documented but that's neither here nor there)

We don't need anything actually. Entertainment are still forms of leisure and luxury which are by definition wants, not needs.

It may be fair to argue that happiness is not strictly necessary. In the same way that a healthy diet is not strictly necessary. I would argue that it's necessary for fulfillment, however, or perhaps more accurately, to be more of an asset than a liability

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Suddenly missing the bad Smash takes.

 

[AlRex]

To go to a different subject, I feel like there’s a good balance to be had between the “gaming/Nintendo history” aspect and the “fun game” aspect. The problem is that, of course, nobody will agree what that is, but I lean towards making references functional/neat things if one can, rather than prioritizing them for the sake of it. That said, if your aim is to make a video game about Nintendo/other video game characters fighting, there should be a good degree of their previous “DNA” left intact, but you can innovate if it draws their characters, the settings, etc. out better and makes them more fun within the platform fighter context. Though again, what counts as that is arguable, but I would say if you want to completely do something new, it would be better to make your own characters, which people have.

 

[Zerp]

I think we should try focusing on the "Smash" part of our opinions again...

On that note, I've never been very fond of The Subspace Emissary. I like the music we got plus some of the character interactions are funny and cute, but that's about it for positives. The vast majority of the story is meaningless crossover fights for the sake of crossover fights, and it does barely anything interesting with the cast. The world design? It's not awful but considering this is a collection of all of Nintendo's IPs it comes off incredibly bland and uninspired. Everything apart from Subspace itself is set in like the most generic places ever. And the gameplay? Really don't like it, I'd go so far as to call it boring. Melee's adventure mode is infinitely shorter yet I still vastly prefer it, which is saying something because I don't think Melee's one is very good either.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I think we should try focusing on the "Smash" part of our opinions again...

On that note, I've never been very fond of The Subspace Emissary. I like the music we got plus some of the character interactions are funny and cute, but that's about it for positives. The vast majority of the story is meaningless crossover fights for the sake of crossover fights, and it does barely anything interesting with the cast. The world design? It's not awful but considering this is a collection of all of Nintendo's IPs it comes off incredibly bland and uninspired. Everything apart from Subspace itself is set in like the most generic places ever. And the gameplay? Really don't like it, I'd go so far as to call it boring. Melee's adventure mode is infinitely shorter yet I still vastly prefer it, which is saying something because I don't think Melee's one is very good either.

While this is mostly my thoughts on the Subspace Emissary as well (aside from the fact that I actually mostly liked the SSE in spite of sharing most of your criticisms about it) I will say one other element of it I consider is it's enemy design.

While I would've liked to see far more enemies from other Nintendo games in the game besides Bowser's army and the R.O.Bs thanks to all the Nintendo IPs and villains involved (and from what I recall, there's actually a lot of leftover data in the game for unused enemies from various other Nintendo games, meaning this was planned at some point) the original enemies are, for the most part, actually very creative from both an aesthetic design point and in terms of gameplay. They have a variety of creative designs, creative abilities and attacks, are fun to fight, and serve as a decent or even strong challenge all throughout the SSE depending on the difficulty you pick.

As glad as I was that they finally brought in all kinds of Nintendo enemies in Smash Run, I was glad to see that at least a few original enemies from the SSE returned for it as well. I'd like to see a few more of them come back in the next game, but still only in addition to enemies from other Nintendo games as well. Either for another new Story/Adventure Mode, and/or Smash Run. I've said it before, but I also think Smash Run's one of the few gamemodes that was sorely missing from Ultimate.

 

[UserKev]

As I said before, I do agree that we need entertainment. But video games are not the only form of entertainment, so as long as there is movies, mangas, comic books, music, litterature, poetry, theatre, dance, and so on, we don't need video games specifically. Being rude by calling this reasoning "baseless statement that hardly makes sense" doesn't disprove it.

Not being rude bro. My wording may come off jerk-ish but that's not the tone I'm trying to express. There is really nothing to prove or disprove. I'll leave this debate as this topic isn't worth arguing.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Gaur Plains is a wonderful and fun stage.

 

[fogbadge]

Gaur Plains is a wonderful and fun stage.

whoa, we trying to calm things down

 

[Laniv]

Sometimes I miss being able to run past people

 

[TheZizz]

Sometimes I miss being able to run past people

Maybe dashing into someone without any other inputs could be an attack all its own. (Think warios shoulder slam vs his old attack dash). Sort of like when you dash into a 90 degree surface and do that little recoil, I don't know you just gave me this idea

 

[NotWilliam]

I enjoy the great cave offensive (go ahead, burn me at the stake)

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Gaur Plains is a wonderful and fun stage.

I'll be honest, it's crazy how Metal Face has so many voice clips for a non-playable entity.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

Gaur Plains is a wonderful and fun stage.

On 3DS? Yes.