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Unpopular Smash Opinions (BE CIVIL)

Wario Wario Wario

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Most any character who is touted more because they are liked for the game the game / series they come from rather than the GAME-PLAY they bring to smash
I do agree with this sentiment somewhat (roster choices should be made mostly based on gameplay, but because what gameplay a character has is (and should be) unpredictable I'm not 100% sure fan requests should be made with that in mind), but I would like more clarity. Your username is Master Chief and your PFP is Vault Boy, and both are on your MW list, and your MW list is entirely comprised of protagonists and mascots (aside from already repped series, "this with that" situations, and whatever you'd classify Tabuu as) with a quite clear slant towards mature and "serious" franchises. Nothing wrong with a biased MW list, that's kinda the point, but it does contradict your statement that source material is completely disregardable as it does show a distinct taste in games and care for representing the wider game experience instead of focusing on a single character's gameplay.
 
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RodNutTakin

Smash Ace
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That's blatantly ignoring the history of that game having a rough start over the cast replacement.

People look back at the newer characters fondly nowadays, but it's revisionist to claim people favorited it over the "cool new characters" back when it was new.
See also: Soul Calibur V, which didn't get vindicated like the SF3 series did.
I mean, sure, but that comes with the territory of new characters having to prove themselves versus established faces. Of course a character will be more popular when people have them in their hands; doesn't mean it's a bad idea to add new guys or you should prioritize veterans over new faces. Personally, even if my main gets cut, I see it as a chance to try characters I'd never look at otherwise. (Source: My Rivals of Aether main isn't in Rivals 2 and never will be, but I've been having a blast with Loxodont even though he's the polar opposite of my original main.) It's all about keeping an open mind.
This is an issue I talked about in the Next Smash thread a little bit back; this line of thinking simply does not work in the context of Smash like it does with Street Fighter or Rivals. All of the fighters in Smash are "established faces", even the ones that are added for a new game, with Roy and Mr. Game & Watch being arguably the single sole exceptions across the series's 25 year history. The mentality of "well we can remove a swath of characters because they're unpopular" only works in the context of a game with original characters for its roster. Street Fighter can get rid of characters like Necro, Remy, Abigail, El Fuerte, Rufus etc. for unpopularity reasons, and not much is lost because those characters weren't really doing anything outside of hogging slots in their respective games. Smash characters by design are already at least somewhat popular going into their inclusion into the series, and it is very rare for a character to be outright considered controversial or expendable en masse--and usually this is because the character is either unpopular (Corrin), or taken for granted (Incineroar, Piranha Plant) within their own home series' fanbase, or is a clone character overshadowed by more popular clones and echoes (Pichu, Dr. Mario, Young Link).
As you can see, that pool of "disliked/unpopular" fighters is pretty shallow, and even then I have seen people go to bat for Doctor freaking Mario in particular.

As far as we all know, every character cut so far in Smash has predominantly been a matter of developers running out of time for inclusions, or other unforseen circumstances like hardware limitations or inability to communicate with rights-holders. To me, that is an indicator that the developers understand that dealing with Smash's roster is like playing a game of Jenga, where they have to be very careful about what they remove to keep the playerbase from becoming alienated. I'm not saying cuts shouldn't happen ever, I'm more saying that this is a series that needs to be very careful on how it handles cuts with the precedent they have established. I would certainly be singing a different tune if, alongside the five characters who already didn't return from Melee, Brawl also cut out Ness, Jigglypuff, Sheik, Falco, the Ice Climbers, and Mr. Game & Watch to make way for more new faces, and then the game after that got rid of Lucas, Ike, ZSS, R.O.B., Captain Falcon, Snake, and a few others to make way for even more fresh blood (and also replaced Olimar fully for Alph).

My main point is that cuts in Smash are not as easy and dry as cuts in a Street Fighter, Tekken, or Rivals. Who and how many are gone next time are going to be questions that I expect Studio S to be very careful with figuring out and answering. There are some removals that would be considered easy or understandable, and I think the net can widen a little bit with the promise of being swiftly added back in post-launch, but I personally think anywhere even approaching a "reset" of the cast would be a collapse of the "Smash Jenga tower" in many people's eyes unless it is specifically for an experimental spin-off or side game not meant to be the headlining brand new installment in the series.
 
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Lenidem

Smash Lord
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Most any character who is touted more because they are liked for the game the game / series they come from rather than the GAME-PLAY they bring to smash
That's the kind of opinion that I see very often on this forum, and I couldn't disagree more.

Smash is a cross-over. Making Mario fight against someone from "another game that I love" is a huge part of its appeal.
 

Wario Wario Wario

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Is it just me or is this thread developing NASB thread syndrome? Like we've effectively just got a string of "Cuts good/bad", "Joke characters good/bad", "Characters are functions/characters", "Smash should focus on new/old" "3Ps should (not) be Nintendo-adjacent" going on on loop, even if there's more diverse subjects and discussion here than "they cut Lincoln, they cut Lincoln, they cut Lincoln"
 
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Swamp Sensei

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Is it just me or is this thread developing NASB thread syndrome? Like we've effectively just got a string of "Cuts good/bad", "Joke characters good/bad", "Characters are functions/characters", "Smash should focus on new/old" "3Ps should (not) be Nintendo-adjacent" going on on loop, even if there's more diverse subjects and discussion here than "they cut Lincoln, they cut Lincoln, they cut Lincoln"
Only a few opinions are blatantly unpopular. They end up here.
 

RodNutTakin

Smash Ace
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I guess the title could do better to indicate that unpopular doesn't necessarily have to mean controversial/divisive.
For instance, I personally think that the best choice for a Rhythm Heaven character would be the Glee Club conductor, over the kids he conducts, Yuko, or Karate Joe. That's an unpopular opinion, but it's not necessarily something people would find controversial like "the next game should have only 30 fighters" or "Clones should not be on the roster at all".
 

Lenidem

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Is it just me or is this thread developing NASB thread syndrome? Like we've effectively just got a string of "Cuts good/bad", "Joke characters good/bad", "Characters are functions/characters", "Smash should focus on new/old" "3Ps should (not) be Nintendo-adjacent" going on on loop, even if there's more diverse subjects and discussion here than "they cut Lincoln, they cut Lincoln, they cut Lincoln"
"They cut Lincoln"? I'm curious, is that a reference to something?
 

Wario Wario Wario

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"They cut Lincoln"? I'm curious, is that a reference to something?
NASB2 cut a """""huge""""" chunk of characters from NASB1, 11 out of 25, and the NASB thread got REALLY obnoxious about it, with a small group of users on the thread intentionally prolonging discussion relating to cuts and derailing any non-cut related discussion to be raging about cuts and nonsensical theories about why they won't happen - with pretty much the sole intention of trying to vindicate one specific cut character, Lincoln Loud. (the protagonist of The Loud House, the only "modern" Nicktoon repped in the game, who's inclusion was widely mocked in the first game's prerelease due to him being a kinda bland audience surrogate compared to his sisters who have distinct hobbies - one of which, Lucy the goth, is in both games) When Lincoln was finally confirmed cut, one of his fans claimed to have a meltdown and the other basically disappeared from the site and only came back a few times to post cryptic memes about either cuts or Grandma Gertie (a NASB2 newcomer they hate(d?)) - NASB2's prelaunch discussion on SmashBoards was practically entirely Lincoln-centric because of this small group, with even the super-speculation-ready story mode being ignored in favor of cut discussion - basically a cautionary tale on why it's bad to assign emotional attachment to fighting game roster selections.
 
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RodNutTakin

Smash Ace
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Jul 14, 2014
Messages
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NASB2 cut a """""huge""""" chunk of characters from NASB1, 11 out of 25, and the NASB thread got REALLY obnoxious about it, with a small group of users on the thread intentionally prolonging discussion relating to cuts and derailing any non-cut related discussion to be raging about cuts and nonsensical theories about why they won't happen - with pretty much the sole intention of trying to vindicate one specific cut character, Lincoln Loud. (the protagonist of The Loud House, the only "modern" Nicktoon repped in the game, who's inclusion was widely mocked in the first game's prerelease due to him being a kinda bland audience surrogate compared to his sisters who have distinct hobbies - one of which, Lucy the goth, is in both games) When Lincoln was finally confirmed cut, one of his fans claimed to have a meltdown and the other basically disappeared from the site and only came back a few times to post cryptic memes about either cuts or Grandma Gertie (a NASB2 newcomer they hate(d?)) - NASB2's prelaunch discussion on SmashBoards was practically entirely Lincoln-centric because of this small group, with even the super-speculation-ready story mode being ignored in favor of cut discussion - basically a cautionary tale on why it's bad to assign emotional attachment to fighting game roster selections.
I am an outsider to the whole thing, but from my perspective, the controversy about the cuts seemed to be less genuine emotional attachment and more "wow, the tiny smash clone couldn't even keep the small 25-character roster intact for one sequel! laugh at these incompetent devs!"
Losing nearly half of your game's roster for a mostly-iterative sequel is a pretty boneheaded PR move, especially in terms of escaping Smash comparisons, but I wouldn't be surprised if people went out of their way to harass and dump on developers and fans that likely are only in this mess because of the unfeeling entity that is Viacom or Paramount or whatever the danged parent company is called now. I do think Viacom (I'm just calling it that for familiarity) should rightfully be derided for decisions that majorly hurt NASB and its sequel, and there are some other design elements I think are a bit underbaked regarding both games (mainly characters having the "Two Flickies syndrome" as I like to call it), but it's clear that most of the vitriol and unconstructive criticism was unfairly aimed at developers and those still wanting to play the game.
 
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