This is how liberty dies!

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Even if you say other things are socialist it does not change that this is socialist.

OK, but 4+ people asked you if you thought police stations, fire departments, etc were unconstitutional and you said nothing to that.

I also don't understand why this being socialist is such a terrible thing, when all of the things other people stated (some of which are important parts of society) are technically socialist as well.

It seems like you're clinging to the "omg this is socialist it must be bad!!!!!!!11!!" argument now, and that's basically all you're saying.

Eh, I gotta go eat dinner. Be back later or something.

 

[saviorslegacy]

I thought you said that it being socialistic was an opinion?

It is.
Did I miss-word something that did not satisfy you your highness?

He doesn't know opinion from fact. I think it is capitalist. So do 37 other states.

Hannah Montana has 5+ million fans. She is obviously the best music artist.

A lot of people said that slavery of blacks was right, doesn't mean that it actually was.

But they aren't making you eat the food, just pay for it. No one is making you go to the doctor, there is no requirement to go to a doctor so many times a year, you are simply paying for insurance, like it was a tax. You aren't forced to use the insurance, but you are paying for it none the less.

Now, let's assume it WAS a TRUE tax, what then? Would you not be downing this as a "single payer" system?

What sort of fix do you purpose? how would you insure those who truly need it, without having a mandate, because without the mandate, there would be no way to decrease insurance cost while at the same time making sure that high cost patients are insured.

Oh God, we are still are one of two things that we can still argue aren't we. Get off the baby food and argue with this *****:

1. What big government entitlement program has ever:

• Reduced the deficit?
• Only cost what it says it will and lowered the costs of goods and services?
• Improved quality?
• Enhanced efficiency?
• Decreased delays?
• Fostered more choice and competition?
• Featured competent bureaucracy?
• Operated with honest accounting?
• Avoided fraud, abuse, waste, maddening red tape, and higher taxes?

Why should we trust that Health Care will do all that? Health Care deceptive budget cooking was described in one instance by Senate Budget Committee chairman Kent Conrad (D-ND) as "a Ponzi scheme of the first order, the kind of thing that Bernie Madoff would have been proud of."

2. Why does Health Care exempt some in Congress and the White House from having to buy the same health care plans that the law forces other Americans to purchase: President Obama, Vice President Biden, Cabinet members, top White House staff, congressional committee staff and leadership staff, such as those who work for House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.)?

Republican Senators Chuck Grassley (Iowa) and Tom Coburn (Oklahoma) tried to close this loophole, but Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) wouldn’t even let it come up for a vote. As Grassley says, “It’s only fair and logical that top administration officials, who fought so hard for passage of this overhaul of America’s health care system, experience it themselves. If it’s as good as promised, they’ll know it first-hand. If there are problems, they’ll be able to really understand them, as they should.”

3. How will we deal with a doctor shortage caused by Health Care, particularly when doctors are being asked to treat 32 million more Americans now insured by the new law?

The Medicus Firm a medical recruitment company, found in a survey that 46 percent of physicians said they’d quit or retire if Health Care became law. According to the survey, "even if a much smaller percentage such as ten, 15, or 20 percent are pushed out of practice over several years at a time when the field needs to expand by over 20 percent, this would be severely detrimental to the quality of the health care system."

4. How will patients—particularly senior citizens—feel when their doctors and even hospitals tell them, “Sorry, but we’re only taking on non-Medicare patients who pay privately, in full”?

The New York Times (which championed Health Care) wrote last year that “Some doctors—often internists but also gastroenterologists, gynecologists, psychiatrists and other specialists—are no longer accepting Medicare, either because they have opted out of the insurance system or they are not accepting new patients with Medicare coverage. The doctors’ reasons: reimbursement rates are too low and paperwork too much of a hassle.” Under Health Care, physicians’ Medicare fees are supposed to be cut 21 percent and hospital reimbursements for Medicare patients chopped by $1.3-billion. How long can doctors and hospitals sustain those losses before they’re forced to pull the plug on treating Medicare patients (although some exceptions may be made in dire emergencies)? Count on Congress to use budget tricks like temporary “fixes” to defer those cuts until at least after the November elections.

5. How can President Obama claim that insurance premiums will go down when the very same nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office he quotes, selectively, has said that Health Care will cause the average family’s premiums to go up by as much as 13 percent by 2016?

6. Remember the “jobs saved or created” canard regarding Obama’s economic stimulus?

The president is repeating that fantasy by applying it to Health Care. However, the nonpartisan Lewin Group estimates that as many as 600,000 people will lose their jobs due to the onerous new employer health care mandates in Health Care.

7. Do you realize that Health Care turns Medicare into what should really be called "Medi-pare"?

Health Care slices $528-billion from Medicare, including $136-billion carved out of Medicare Advantage. As The Washington Examiner’s Susan Ferrechio has reported, “The Medicare Advantage cuts will force 4.8 million seniors off the popular plan by 2019. An additional $23 billion in cuts to Medicare will come from a panel charged with slashing Medicare spending.”

Those are just some of the gut-wrenching questions about Health Care that cry out for answers. But as the expression goes, “It’s what you don’t know that really hurts you.” Health Care is so full of dubious assumptions that in future years we may rename it Obama’s box, as in Pandora’s box.




Furthermore, I ask that this be kept to a debate and not an argument, if you know the difference.

OK, but 4+ people asked you if you thought police stations, fire departments, etc were unconstitutional and you said nothing to that.

I also don't understand why this being socialist is such a terrible thing, when all of the things other people stated (some of which are important parts of society) are technically socialist as well.

It seems like you're clinging to the "omg this is socialist it must be bad!!!!!!!11!!" argument now, and that's basically all you're saying.

Eh, I gotta go eat dinner. Be back later or something.

Well there is no real way to answer a question that isn't a question. All I can do is acknowledge what they have said.

Socialism is not a Republic. America was set up to be a Republic. Thus it is un-American.

I am not trying to cling to anything. It is also far from what I have been saying.
When I have posted something about it, it would be response to a bunch of people. If I didn't keep on posting things about it I would get, "This dude don't know **** he is ignoring what we have said." :Ignoring it just proves us right, so shut up."
So it's like I am stuck in between a rock and a hard place.


Why can't everyone reply in this manner? -_-

 

[Melomaniacal]

It is.
Did I miss-word something that did not satisfy you your highness?

...okay, I'm going to go ahead and ignore that second part. You definitely deserve to be able to throw around some insults in here. No, that's not sarcasm, you have a topic filled with people insulting you, it's only fair. So knock yourself out.

Anyway, you can't claim it is your opinion and than declare it is socialistic as if it is fact. Pick one. It's either an opinion ("I feel that it is socialistic") or fact (what you have been doing - "it is socialistic"). Granted, you said once that you "believe" it is socialistic, but you immediately followed it with "this is socialist."

 

[saviorslegacy]

...okay, I'm going to go ahead and ignore that second part. You definitely deserve to be able to throw around some insults in here. No, that's not sarcasm, you have a topic filled with people insulting you, it's only fair. So knock yourself out.

Anyway, you can't claim it is your opinion and than declare it is socialistic as if it is fact. Pick one. It's either an opinion ("I feel that it is socialistic") or fact (what you have been doing - "it is socialistic"). Granted, you said once that you "believe" it is socialistic, but you immediately followed it with "this is socialist."

I forgot to state that it was my opinion in the final sentence. I'll try not to trip on that anymore. -_-
happy?

 

[Melomaniacal]

I forgot to state that it was my opinion in the final sentence. I'll try not to trip on that anymore. -_-
happy?

As happy as one can be when they are arguing politics. :bigthumbu

On that note, I don't have it in me to try to argue your points. It's a combination of laziness and being infuriated by politics. Politics make me angry and I don't like being angry, so I'm going to take myself away from it.

 

[CRASHiC]

wow, okay, honestly Savior, if you think the government has never done anything right, get off the internet, which is provided, and set up in part by the government. So yeah, litterally, get the **** out and go on the publically set up internet.

Honestly, you really don't know what you are talking about, and are just posting irrelavent things now. You didn't even responded to what i said and just went into a rant about how the government can't do anything right, which Jam had already countered earlier in this thread with the picture showcasing how everyting you do in your life is thanks in part to SOCALIST programs. You didn't respond to my point that they aren't forcing you to use health care, just to pay for it, like any other tax. You aren't forced to go to the doctor, you aren't forced to do anything with it.

You also didn't explain to me how the free market could fix the health care problem in this country. Fun fact: they can't. If you have even taken an economic class, you would have learned about inelastic demand, which applies THE MOST to health care. Inelastic demand says that the laws of free marker and supply and demand don't apply to things that will always have the same demand no matter the price, aka, things we need to survive and have no other alternative or choice for, aka, medicine, hospitales, etc. When you are having a heart attack, you have no choice but to go to a hospitale. If this hospitale runs COMPLETELY on the idea of supply and demand economics, they will take every penny you have, because they can, becasue you chose death or to pay them. Your demand will always be the same no matter how much they charge. Furthmore, the ambulence doesn't ask which hospital you would like to go to. Never the less, you are going to have to pay the bill, and going to have to use the goods and services they provide, or die. Now, what we see here is that medicine can't possibly run at full efficency when left to run at a truly free market. We imploy this system on many other things that also run on inelastic demand, such as electricity, heating, our road ways, the police and fire departments, etc. etc. Health care falls into the same economic category as all of these, and should be treated as such.

Also, much of what you posted is drastically untrue, and we can look at France as a model for this. France has arguably the best health care system, has the most people insured in a non-single payer system, AND has some of the best medical reviews in the world. They have no doctor shortage, they don't turn any patients away, and neither will we.

I could respond to each point individually, but you clearly don't listen. I've already brought up the cap it sets on insurance premiums, but you clearly ignored this. I'm done here, as you are both greatly misinformed, and are willing to be so to justify your unjustifable anger.

 

[saviorslegacy]

As happy as one can be when they are arguing politics. :bigthumbu

On that note, I don't have it in me to try to argue your points. It's a combination of laziness and being infuriated by politics. Politics make me angry and I don't like being angry, so I'm going to take myself away from it.

Yeah well it piss's me off too. This post was supposed to be a joke about politics, but then it got turned into a debate and then later an argument. -_-

Good idea, I might be following you example here soon. I am getting tired of the constant arguing. -_-
Now onto CRASHiC's post that will only make him reply just as pissed as before.

wow, okay, honestly Savior, if you think the government has never done anything right, get off the internet, which is provided, and set up in part by the government. So yeah, litterally, get the **** out and go on the publically set up internet.

I never claimed these things that you are stating.
(and) I do believe they have done some things right. Like letting blacks be equal, and the Second Amendment.

*Google and many other sites are not provided by the Government.
Thing with .gov at the end are provided by the Governemnt. Unless you know something I don't.

Honestly, you really don't know what you are talking about, and are just posting irrelavent things now. You didn't even responded to what i said and just went into a rant about how the government can't do anything right, which Jam had already countered earlier in this thread with the picture showcasing how everyting you do in your life is thanks in part to SOCALIST programs. You didn't respond to my point that they aren't forcing you to use health care, just to pay for it, like any other tax. You aren't forced to go to the doctor, you aren't forced to do anything with it.

I never said that the Government can't do anything right.
The reason I did not respond to you was because you were acting immature in your post and I did not feel like feeding the troll.
I responded to plenty of others though.

To answer that, die or use the Health Care plan, your choice.
I would say that is pretty much forcing you. Granted, not everything is life threatening.

You also didn't explain to me how the free market could fix the health care problem in this country. Fun fact: they can't. If you have even taken an economic class, you would have learned about inelastic demand, which applies THE MOST to health care. Inelastic demand says that the laws of free marker and supply and demand don't apply to things that will always have the same demand no matter the price, aka, things we need to survive and have no other alternative or choice for, aka, medicine, hospitales, etc. When you are having a heart attack, you have no choice but to go to a hospitale. If this hospitale runs COMPLETELY on the idea of supply and demand economics, they will take every penny you have, because they can, becasue you chose death or to pay them. Your demand will always be the same no matter how much they charge. Furthmore, the ambulence doesn't ask which hospital you would like to go to. Never the less, you are going to have to pay the bill, and going to have to use the goods and services they provide, or die. Now, what we see here is that medicine can't possibly run at full efficency when left to run at a truly free market. We imploy this system on many other things that also run on inelastic demand, such as electricity, heating, our road ways, the police and fire departments, etc. etc. Health care falls into the same economic category as all of these, and should be treated as such.

Maybe if there weren't so many lazy bums on welfare that don't need it that had horrible coverage we wouldn't need this. That said, part of the health care reform isn't a bad idea. It is that it is cluttered with crap that makes it bad.

I skip read the last bit because I have to go. So repost anything that you want me to make a direct response to.

 

[Maniclysane]

To answer that, die or use the Health Care plan, your choice.
I would say that is pretty much forcing you. Granted, not everything is life threatening.

Not to butt into the conversation between you and CRASHiC but, wouldn't that mean the Health Care plan would be saving your life?

EDIT: If what you're trying to say is that, you HAVE to use the health care plan set by the government, you don't. You can use whatever insurance plan you already have.

 

[CRASHiC]

And I'm now double done now that i see he only thinks people are poor because they are lazy.

 

[Sucumbio]

I just wanna say, I hated that line from Star Wars Ep 3. It was totally contrived. Like most of the prequels actually... Meh.

Anyway... haha sup yo, ain't seen you in a minute! So this is what you be doin, gettin your own thunderous applause (or boos as it seems) ... I watched part of that video about how Obama was like this ... basically a tool of the la le lu li lo or some ****, lol. But now, I see you've got your own health care thread.

Why everyone so bent? I mean... number 1 if you have good coverage that you like and enjoy, you don't have to change it, you can leave it like it is... 2... if you have none, you can buy into -this- plan, it's like a giant government HMO... 3 it radically changes "medicare" which was in the hole anyway, it makes it possible for people like my mom who are nearing 70 to not fall into things like the donut costing her tons of money she ain't got cause she's on a fixed retirement income. The only real gripe I can see anyone having is small business owners who fall just within the category of "i'm small enough right now I don't want to pay for insurance but now I have to" but that's nothing new, small businesses are constantly having to adjust, plus this sets a new precedent for SBE (small business entrepreneurs) which is basically don't waste time trying to start a new business unless you're first prepared to consider the costs of health care. It's not too dissimilar to "don't start a new business unless you're prepared to meet OSHA requirements, or EPA requirements, etc.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Not to butt into the conversation between you and CRASHiC but, wouldn't that mean the Health Care plan would be saving your life?

EDIT: If what you're trying to say is that, you HAVE to use the health care plan set by the government, you don't. You can use whatever insurance plan you already have.

You guys are stuck up on the good points of this Health Care Reform. I never said they were not there. I am saying that there are a bunch of bad ones.

And I'm now double done now that i see he only thinks people are poor because they are lazy.

I happen to live in an area that has the most welfare people in my state. I am.... was very active in the community because I am... was a volunteer. I quit because a lot of people are lazy and are riding the welfare checks so that they don't have to do anything.
We were putting on a roof for this one guy and he decided to go outside and help a little bit on the last day. That man was stronger than me and I am pretty strong. He was carrying two bags of shingles up the ladder at a time. There was nothing wrong with this guy. His condition was some weird thing that had never heard of. Someone joked and said that it meant he has gas in the morning.
I also have friends whose parents are on welfare. They say that their own parents are lazy. One of these people have 8 children!
There are some people that need help, but from my experience most of them are just lazy.
Then again, you have people that are disabled and still get jobs. There is a cashier at our local Krogers that is missing one leg.

I just wanna say, I hated that line from Star Wars Ep 3. It was totally contrived. Like most of the prequels actually... Meh.

Anyway... haha sup yo, ain't seen you in a minute! So this is what you be doin, gettin your own thunderous applause (or boos as it seems) ... I watched part of that video about how Obama was like this ... basically a tool of the la le lu li lo or some ****, lol. But now, I see you've got your own health care thread.

Why everyone so bent? I mean... number 1 if you have good coverage that you like and enjoy, you don't have to change it, you can leave it like it is... 2... if you have none, you can buy into -this- plan, it's like a giant government HMO... 3 it radically changes "medicare" which was in the hole anyway, it makes it possible for people like my mom who are nearing 70 to not fall into things like the donut costing her tons of money she ain't got cause she's on a fixed retirement income. The only real gripe I can see anyone having is small business owners who fall just within the category of "i'm small enough right now I don't want to pay for insurance but now I have to" but that's nothing new, small businesses are constantly having to adjust, plus this sets a new precedent for SBE (small business entrepreneurs) which is basically don't waste time trying to start a new business unless you're first prepared to consider the costs of health care. It's not too dissimilar to "don't start a new business unless you're prepared to meet OSHA requirements, or EPA requirements, etc.

Hey man how have you been!
BTW, did you ever do anything with that Vampire pic I made you?

 

[Sucumbio]

Hey man how have you been!
BTW, did you ever do anything with that Vampire pic I made you?

LOL nah, I just keep it tucked away for that one day I decide to frame it (is a custom design framer for michael's now :D)

 

[thegreatkazoo]

And now you're using anecdotal evidence. Oh god make the pain stop.

SL, use the link I gave you. Please!

 

[OFY]

Can anyone provide me a socialist country that has been more successful than the United States when it comes to economic prosperity, individual freedom, innovation? I could have sworn our country was built on "build yourself up" and capitalism. If you really think this country will be a socialist country than I hope you are loading and preparing your guns because there are plenty of people in this country that are willing to put their lives on the line to protect their freedoms in which socialism takes away. The 2nd amendment was put in the constitution for a reason.



....

The Health care bill isnt a tax. its a mandatory insurance. like car insurance, why pay for car insurance, if you dont drive a car? Same for health insurance. Why pay for health insurance when you know yourself you don't get sick very often. Like me, I hardly ever get sick. maybe once every other year. Now if you have a family and you want to GET health insurance for them, it should be an option. its stupid to pay for something you dont use.

^reinforce my car insurance compared to this new health care insurance statement from earlier.

@savior, the government established the internet in the military like in 1960's or something

 

[_Keno_]

Evidence for what pre-tail?

Ummmmm, did you skip the posts before mine? You should read before responding... Here they are, in order of posting

but you're still using false information to support your points.[directed at savior]

As true as that is Vrael until you provide actual proof of anything he posted being wrong it just looks like an attack on him.

Pink, I'm pretty sure its up to savior to provide evidence, not for Vrael to provide counter-evidence...

I'm just saying that I agree that you should post your sources for all information you say. And if you dont, or the sources are sketchy, what you say should be ignored.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Ummmmm, did you skip the posts before mine? You should read before responding... Here they are, in order of posting







I'm just saying that I agree that you should post your sources for all information you say. And if you dont, or the sources are sketchy, what you say should be ignored.

I think you are mistaking me for someone who feels like spending 30 or more minutes searching around on google to provide the info.
Instead, if you have a problem with what I say point out where it does not say what I have stated in the bill.

 

[Aesir]

It is un-American.
So here are some of my questions:

1. What big government entitlement program has ever:

• Reduced the deficit?
• Only cost what it says it will and lowered the costs of goods and services?
• Improved quality?
• Enhanced efficiency?
• Decreased delays?
• Fostered more choice and competition?
• Featured competent bureaucracy?
• Operated with honest accounting?
• Avoided fraud, abuse, waste, maddening red tape, and higher taxes?

Why should we trust that Health Care will do all that? Health Care deceptive budget cooking was described in one instance by Senate Budget Committee chairman Kent Conrad (D-ND) as "a Ponzi scheme of the first order, the kind of thing that Bernie Madoff would have been proud of."

2. Why does Health Care exempt some in Congress and the White House from having to buy the same health care plans that the law forces other Americans to purchase: President Obama, Vice President Biden, Cabinet members, top White House staff, congressional committee staff and leadership staff, such as those who work for House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.)?

Republican Senators Chuck Grassley (Iowa) and Tom Coburn (Oklahoma) tried to close this loophole, but Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) wouldn’t even let it come up for a vote. As Grassley says, “It’s only fair and logical that top administration officials, who fought so hard for passage of this overhaul of America’s health care system, experience it themselves. If it’s as good as promised, they’ll know it first-hand. If there are problems, they’ll be able to really understand them, as they should.”

3. How will we deal with a doctor shortage caused by Health Care, particularly when doctors are being asked to treat 32 million more Americans now insured by the new law?

The Medicus Firm a medical recruitment company, found in a survey that 46 percent of physicians said they’d quit or retire if Health Care became law. According to the survey, "even if a much smaller percentage such as ten, 15, or 20 percent are pushed out of practice over several years at a time when the field needs to expand by over 20 percent, this would be severely detrimental to the quality of the health care system."

4. How will patients—particularly senior citizens—feel when their doctors and even hospitals tell them, “Sorry, but we’re only taking on non-Medicare patients who pay privately, in full”?

The New York Times (which championed Health Care) wrote last year that “Some doctors—often internists but also gastroenterologists, gynecologists, psychiatrists and other specialists—are no longer accepting Medicare, either because they have opted out of the insurance system or they are not accepting new patients with Medicare coverage. The doctors’ reasons: reimbursement rates are too low and paperwork too much of a hassle.” Under Health Care, physicians’ Medicare fees are supposed to be cut 21 percent and hospital reimbursements for Medicare patients chopped by $1.3-billion. How long can doctors and hospitals sustain those losses before they’re forced to pull the plug on treating Medicare patients (although some exceptions may be made in dire emergencies)? Count on Congress to use budget tricks like temporary “fixes” to defer those cuts until at least after the November elections.

5. How can President Obama claim that insurance premiums will go down when the very same nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office he quotes, selectively, has said that Health Care will cause the average family’s premiums to go up by as much as 13 percent by 2016?

6. Remember the “jobs saved or created” canard regarding Obama’s economic stimulus?

The president is repeating that fantasy by applying it to Health Care. However, the nonpartisan Lewin Group estimates that as many as 600,000 people will lose their jobs due to the onerous new employer health care mandates in Health Care.

7. Do you realize that Health Care turns Medicare into what should really be called "Medi-pare"?

Health Care slices $528-billion from Medicare, including $136-billion carved out of Medicare Advantage. As The Washington Examiner’s Susan Ferrechio has reported, “The Medicare Advantage cuts will force 4.8 million seniors off the popular plan by 2019. An additional $23 billion in cuts to Medicare will come from a panel charged with slashing Medicare spending.”

Those are just some of the gut-wrenching questions about Health Care that cry out for answers. But as the expression goes, “It’s what you don’t know that really hurts you.” Health Care is so full of dubious assumptions that in future years we may rename it Obama’s box, as in Pandora’s box.

Communications consultant Jon Kraushar is at index.

 

[REL38]

Best response I've seen in this entire thread so far

So glad I've stopped caring about politics

 

[CRASHiC]

Can anyone provide me a socialist country that has been more successful than the United States when it comes to economic prosperity, individual freedom, innovation?

and even then, most of our inportant innovations have ceom from socialized research. Why? Because a scientist can't come up to a private company and go, "give me a grant to do something just to see what the hell happens." This kind of open ended research that government provides for is the basis for many inventions in our modern day life.

Furthmore, American's prosperity is out of wack, its set off by the extremly rich, and this interfears with our median income and standard of living, this combined with the average house holds addiction of debt, not invested, good debt, but debt for TVs, cars, and commodities that lose them money and not gain, these all have made the US seem a more prosperious nation over the last 30 years than it really is, and now as we return to healthy spending habbits, we are suffering for it.

 

[_Keno_]

Can anyone provide me a socialist country that has been more successful than the United States when it comes to economic prosperity, individual freedom, innovation?

Isn't Norway?

 

[saviorslegacy]

Multiple European countries are failing.
Also, according to my EU friends, right now everything is sooooo expensive right now that they can barely afford to do anything. Most of them are now riding bikes to every where because it costs like 9$ for a gallon of gas. A game over there is equal to 70$ AMerican dollars. I am talking about a Wii game BTW. The only thing that is keeping the continent from failing right now, is that everyone still has a job... except for Iceland, Greece, Turkey and Spain.

Canada is doing good because almost everyone is self sufficient. What I mean by that is everyone can fix a car, do plumbing, do electrical work, till the land, ect, ect. The exception is their smaller cities.
They also have very good sources of fish and wood.
So yeah, it is not because of the Government CRASHiC, it is because of its smart people and good stable resources.

America has over spent and now we cannot return to healthy spending habits what are you talking about? It will probably take another 10 years or so until we can spend again. That is if we can get jobs and this Health Care reform hasn't back rupted us yet. -_-


@Aesir

 

[Aesir]

Multiple European countries are failing.
Also, according to my EU friends, right now everything is sooooo expensive right now that they can barely afford to do anything. Most of them are now riding bikes to every where because it costs like 9$ for a gallon of gas. A game over there is equal to 70$ AMerican dollars. I am talking about a Wii game BTW. The only thing that is keeping the continent from failing right now, is that everyone still has a job... except for Iceland, Greece, Turkey and Spain.

The reason why they're having those fluctuations is because of the series of strikes that are going on right now. Which is causing industry to react with raising the prices.

I can't believe you're basing the economy off how much a game is, but you're not showing the whole picture once again. A new game over there is between 50-70 dollars American. Furthermore have you seen how much new games over here costs? it's roughly the same.

The only thing keeping the economy together is because of the countries that are fiscally responsible. France, Germany ect... The Greeks for instance are a "socialist" country but they don't have an income tax. They just barrow money and never pay it back.

But yeah they must be doing really bad if their currency is worth more than ours.

Canada is doing good because almost everyone is self sufficient. What I mean by that is everyone can fix a car, do plumbing, do electrical work, till the land, ect, ect. The exception is their smaller cities.
They also have very good sources of fish and wood.
So yeah, it is not because of the Government CRASHiC, it is because of its smart people and good stable resources.

They have good stable resources because the government provides social justice and social welfare for it's citizens. Secular democracies, the ones that provide these types of programs have shown to constantly be happier than any other governmental model.

America has over spent and now we cannot return to healthy spending habits what are you talking about? It will probably take another 10 years or so until we can spend again. That is if we can get jobs and this Health Care reform hasn't back rupted us yet. -_-

Where have you been? H.Care reform isn't going to rupt us, the past 8 years rupted us. This is what happens when you cut taxes and raise spending for 8 years. in a deregulated economy, this is why the Republican answer to the economy is immature and a fantasy.

 

[saviorslegacy]

The reason why they're having those fluctuations is because of the series of strikes that are going on right now. Which is causing industry to react with raising the prices.

I can't believe you're basing the economy off how much a game is, but you're not showing the whole picture once again. A new game over there is between 50-70 dollars American. Furthermore have you seen how much new games over here costs? it's roughly the same.
Hey ******* I also said gas. Groceries are more expensive too but I do not know to what extent.

The only thing keeping the economy together is because of the countries that are fiscally responsible. France, Germany ect... The Greeks for instance are a "socialist" country but they don't have an income tax. They just barrow money and never pay it back.

But yeah they must be doing really bad if their currency is worth more than ours.
But it takes more currency to buy something......


They have good stable resources because the government provides social justice and social welfare for it's citizens. Secular democracies, the ones that provide these types of programs have shown to constantly be happier than any other governmental model.
If I give you money you will get a bunch of fish......
There were good stable resources when they were territories, some are even still called territories..... The Government has nothing to do with how many tress and how much fish there are. That is left up to the land. Of course the Government can keep pollutants down and plant more trees, but all that does is replace what you have taken/not be a burden on nature.




Where have you been? H.Care reform isn't going to rupt us, the past 8 years rupted us. This is what happens when you cut taxes and raise spending for 8 years. in a deregulated economy, this is why the Republican answer to the economy is immature and a fantasy.

I take it you haven't looked at how much this is going to cost the American people have you? Goo check that out then restate your paragraph.

The American people are broke not from taxes, but from getting to much debt.
It is their own bloody fault for not using their heads. I will never get a credit card because my parents were dumb enough to get into debt. We are currently out of debt though. My dad refers to himself as an "idiot" for buying into the banks scheme.
If America wants to look at the problem as to why they are broke, they should look into the mirror.

Now as for the price for this health care reform....... it will cause the American people to become more broke because they can't pay for this Hcare plan and pay off their debt at the same time. They just can't do it. My dad makes more money than the average American (he works on machines that enrich uranium) and we could barely live with all of the debt we had. I remember asking to go to church and I got told that they didn't have the gas to go to church. I wore ratty old clothes and we grew our own food. America is not ready to tell their teens that they can no longer go places because they don't have the gas. America is not ready to give up eating out. America is not ready to stop shopping for name brand clothes. America is not ready to give up buying a brand new car every 4 years or so.
America has a rude awakening coming up......

I suggest watching Dave Ramsy and talking to people about debt before you continue discussing it. Watching Dave Ramsy may also be a good thing for you anyways because it might open your eyes a little bit more.

 

[Maniclysane]

I think your dad was just lazy.

Obviously if he didn't have enough money to go to church he obviously wasn't working hard enough.

 

[saviorslegacy]

I think your dad was just lazy.

Obviously if he didn't have enough money to go to church he obviously wasn't working hard enough.

**** you
My dad was laid off and couldn't find work for almost a year 8 hours away.
He worked as a handy man trying to provide for the family. He is anything but lazy.
While he was searching for a job we got a lot of debt.
There isn't much work for people who know how to maintain or use machines dealing with uranium. He got some electrical jobs, but those don't last.
The only other thing he knows how to do is fix jet air craft. He was involved with Desert Storm. His job in the Marine Corps was to maintain the f-18 Hornets.
The reason why we couldn't go to church was the gas money. He needed that gas money to go to houses/places of business to fix the electrical.
It's not like he could go get a job flipping burgers. You can't maintain a family of four off of that money.

Don't ever call my father lazy again.
In fact, watch your mouth when referring to my father. Anything derogative in unacceptable.

 

[CRASHiC]

oh no, but see, he's poor so he must be lazy, like you said earlier.

 

[Eyada]

**** you
My dad was laid off and couldn't find work for almost a year 8 hours away.
He worked as a handy man trying to provide for the family. He is anything but lazy.
While he was searching for a job we got a lot of debt.
There isn't much work for people who know how to maintain or use machines dealing with uranium. He got some electrical jobs, but those don't last.
The only other thing he knows how to do is fix jet air craft. He was involved with Desert Storm. His job in the Marine Corps was to maintain the f-18 Hornets.
The reason why we couldn't go to church was the gas money. He needed that gas money to go to houses/places of business to fix the electrical.
It's not like he could go get a job flipping burgers. You can't maintain a family of four off of that money.

Don't ever call my father lazy again.
In fact, watch your mouth when referring to my father. Anything derogative in unacceptable.

You missed the point entirely.

Rather than raging mindlessly, you should stop and consider the valuable lesson he is offering here. It would help you overcome your slanted worldview concerning the poor and unemployed.

Or you can just continue to be pissed off and voluntarily remain blind to the fact that poverty is not a black-and-white situation. (And you can choose to ignore the massive hypocrisy inherent in criticizing all poor or unemployed people except for your father, who was also poor and unemployed.)

If you choose to remain willfully ignorant: enjoy dwelling in your mental prison, I suppose; otherwise, congratulations on being a strong enough person to change your worldview --it's a tough thing to do, and many people are far too weak to achieve it, so kudos to you if that's the path you take.

 

[SuperBowser]

Don't ever call my father lazy again.
In fact, watch your mouth when referring to my father. Anything derogative in unacceptable.

Maybe you should think about your own language when referring to poor people too.

 

[PassWurD]

Looool, hahahah.

 

[saviorslegacy]

oh no, but see, he's poor so he must be lazy, like you said earlier.

**** you

You missed the point entirely.

Rather than raging mindlessly, you should stop and consider the valuable lesson he is offering here. It would help you overcome your slanted worldview concerning the poor and unemployed.

Or you can just continue to be pissed off and voluntarily remain blind to the fact that poverty is not a black-and-white situation. (And you can choose to ignore the massive hypocrisy inherent in criticizing all poor or unemployed people except for your father, who was also poor and unemployed.)

If you choose to remain willfully ignorant: enjoy dwelling in your mental prison, I suppose; otherwise, congratulations on being a strong enough person to change your worldview --it's a tough thing to do, and many people are far too weak to achieve it, so kudos to you if that's the path you take.

Guess what genius, there is a difference between poor and trying to find a job and lazy and riding the welfare check. I guess you ignored that.
My dad and almost everyone that isn't on the welfare around here hates people that are on welfare. There is an ongoing joke down here in Portsmouth and that is, "Avoid Wal-Mart at the first of the month." It is referring to the crowd that goes to Wal-Mart to get food and usually a movie, game or something.
I take it you are in an area where only the people that need welfare have it.

Maybe you should think about your own language when referring to poor people too.

There is a difference between poor and lazy. *refer to the above

Looool, hahahah.

cute

 

[CRASHiC]

Saviorlegacy, the man who can instantly judge everyone he knows and has never met, despite not knowing the full extent of their situation.

 

[Melomaniacal]

I know what I said earlier, but this isn't political so I can post. :D

Anyway, savior, you're not seeing the hypocrisy here. You have personal experiences with people on welfare that you are applying to the entire country. You can't do that.

Savior: Everyone who is poor and on welfare is lazy.
Everyone else: That's not true.
Savior: Yes it is, I know, like, 18 people who are on welfare and their lazy as hell.
Everyone else: Than your father, who also could not get a job at one point, must have been lazy.
Savior: NO HE'S MY FATHER YOU'RE AN *******.

Do you not see the hypocrisy in this?

 

[saviorslegacy]

Saviorlegacy, the man who can instantly judge everyone he knows and has never met, despite not knowing the full extent of their situation.

I have a reason to say that almost every person who is on welfare that is in Portsmouth is lazy. Why shouldn't I assume that it is like this in other places?

Anyways, if you aren't going to debate over the health care reform then leave. Right now you are just being an annoying troll.

This is why the Health Care Reform is bad:


1. What big government entitlement program has ever:

• Reduced the deficit?
• Only cost what it says it will and lowered the costs of goods and services?
• Improved quality?
• Enhanced efficiency?
• Decreased delays?
• Fostered more choice and competition?
• Featured competent bureaucracy?
• Operated with honest accounting?
• Avoided fraud, abuse, waste, maddening red tape, and higher taxes?

Why should we trust that Health Care will do all that? Health Care deceptive budget cooking was described in one instance by Senate Budget Committee chairman Kent Conrad (D-ND) as "a Ponzi scheme of the first order, the kind of thing that Bernie Madoff would have been proud of."

2. Why does Health Care exempt some in Congress and the White House from having to buy the same health care plans that the law forces other Americans to purchase: President Obama, Vice President Biden, Cabinet members, top White House staff, congressional committee staff and leadership staff, such as those who work for House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.)?

Republican Senators Chuck Grassley (Iowa) and Tom Coburn (Oklahoma) tried to close this loophole, but Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) wouldn’t even let it come up for a vote. As Grassley says, “It’s only fair and logical that top administration officials, who fought so hard for passage of this overhaul of America’s health care system, experience it themselves. If it’s as good as promised, they’ll know it first-hand. If there are problems, they’ll be able to really understand them, as they should.”

3. How will we deal with a doctor shortage caused by Health Care, particularly when doctors are being asked to treat 32 million more Americans now insured by the new law?

The Medicus Firm a medical recruitment company, found in a survey that 46 percent of physicians said they’d quit or retire if Health Care became law. According to the survey, "even if a much smaller percentage such as ten, 15, or 20 percent are pushed out of practice over several years at a time when the field needs to expand by over 20 percent, this would be severely detrimental to the quality of the health care system."

4. How will patients—particularly senior citizens—feel when their doctors and even hospitals tell them, “Sorry, but we’re only taking on non-Medicare patients who pay privately, in full”?

The New York Times (which championed Health Care) wrote last year that “Some doctors—often internists but also gastroenterologists, gynecologists, psychiatrists and other specialists—are no longer accepting Medicare, either because they have opted out of the insurance system or they are not accepting new patients with Medicare coverage. The doctors’ reasons: reimbursement rates are too low and paperwork too much of a hassle.” Under Health Care, physicians’ Medicare fees are supposed to be cut 21 percent and hospital reimbursements for Medicare patients chopped by $1.3-billion. How long can doctors and hospitals sustain those losses before they’re forced to pull the plug on treating Medicare patients (although some exceptions may be made in dire emergencies)? Count on Congress to use budget tricks like temporary “fixes” to defer those cuts until at least after the November elections.

5. How can President Obama claim that insurance premiums will go down when the very same nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office he quotes, selectively, has said that Health Care will cause the average family’s premiums to go up by as much as 13 percent by 2016?

6. Remember the “jobs saved or created” canard regarding Obama’s economic stimulus?

The president is repeating that fantasy by applying it to Health Care. However, the nonpartisan Lewin Group estimates that as many as 600,000 people will lose their jobs due to the onerous new employer health care mandates in Health Care.

7. Do you realize that Health Care turns Medicare into what should really be called "Medi-pare"?

Health Care slices $528-billion from Medicare, including $136-billion carved out of Medicare Advantage. As The Washington Examiner’s Susan Ferrechio has reported, “The Medicare Advantage cuts will force 4.8 million seniors off the popular plan by 2019. An additional $23 billion in cuts to Medicare will come from a panel charged with slashing Medicare spending.”

Those are just some of the gut-wrenching questions about Health Care that cry out for answers. But as the expression goes, “It’s what you don’t know that really hurts you.” Health Care is so full of dubious assumptions that in future years we may rename it Obama’s box, as in Pandora’s box.






So are you gonna let 7 valid points sit there and show you that this is a bad health care reform or are you gonna keep on b*tching over little things that is irrelevant to the reform like laziness, abortion that I have already said I was wrong over or the opinion that this is Socialist. Nice points bro, you sure have shown me who's boss.

 

[Maniclysane]

Not to butt into the conversation between you and CRASHiC but, wouldn't that mean the Health Care plan would be saving your life?

Answer that and I'll answer your 7 points throughly and thoughtfully.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Saviorlegacy, the man who can instantly judge everyone he knows and has never met, despite not knowing the full extent of their situation.

 

[The_Guide]

@ Saviors
What do you think of government mandated auto-insurance? That's another fine that people are required to pay, no matter what.

If you've already answered this, I apologize. Large thread is large.

 

[GreenKirby]

**** you
My dad was laid off and couldn't find work for almost a year 8 hours away.
He worked as a handy man trying to provide for the family. He is anything but lazy.
While he was searching for a job we got a lot of debt.
There isn't much work for people who know how to maintain or use machines dealing with uranium. He got some electrical jobs, but those don't last.
The only other thing he knows how to do is fix jet air craft. He was involved with Desert Storm. His job in the Marine Corps was to maintain the f-18 Hornets.
The reason why we couldn't go to church was the gas money. He needed that gas money to go to houses/places of business to fix the electrical.
It's not like he could go get a job flipping burgers. You can't maintain a family of four off of that money.

Don't ever call my father lazy again.
In fact, watch your mouth when referring to my father. Anything derogative in unacceptable.

I LOVE how this guy literally cried when someone called his unemployed father lazy, but then turns around and calls someone else unemployed parent lazy XD

 

[john!]

I understand you savior. But the question remains, how would the government separate those like your father from those who are just lazy? Where's the cutoff point?

 

[CRASHiC]

• Reduced the deficit?

See, what you are forgetting here is that this isn't the creation of a new program, but the revision of one. Also, this is a horribly silly question. "When has spending money ever stopped us from spending money?"

Only cost what it says it will and lowered the costs of goods and services?

Nearly all of them. You don't see the police going, "Okay, we saved your wife, that will be 200 dollars please"

Improved quality?

energy
transportation
anything that has inelastic demand and does not run off of profit. Did you ever take an economics class? Mine covered this quite throughly, as to what kinds of economic circumstances government and non-profit does better than profit.

Enhanced efficiency?

Again, I've already explained this through the law of inelastic demand.

Decreased delays?

The LA transportation saves the average driver during the day, to and from work, an average of 3 hours driving time.

Fostered more choice and competition?

Not always a good thing in economics, as already explained by inelastic demand. And so I see you never took an economic class.

Operated with honest accounting?

Actually, most of them do, especially compared to private companies. My family has run Waffle House since it first opened, and I can't tell you all the kind of crazy paper work **** we do, and it runs down right into the very base, we teach servers ways to exploit the computers to make our paperwork look better, for instance, we only count each customer that has a drink other than water, thus making our drink percentage look higher, thus making our profit margins look higher. This is just one tiny example of how we are preparing for a giant sell out. Honestly, what you are saying applies far more to private companies than to non-profit and government based, why? Because there is an incentive too in private companies, as they stand to make a profit. The executives of non-profit make a set salary and nothing more.

As for the other points, you have NO IDEA how completely invalid those are. Wherever you copy pasted those from, STOP GOING. I can ASSURE YOU, that ALL of those are horribly, horribly wrong. For instance, Medical Review found that 60 percent of doctors FAVORED the health care reform plan, back when it covered 100 percent of Americans, and not the new lower percent. All of that info you provided in those 7 points are horribly biased and manipulated information and quotes. No one is going to turn away Medicade patients when they get a PAYED INCENTIVE TO TREAT. THEY GET PAYED FROM THE GOVERNMENT TO TREAT EACH ONE OF THEM.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Answer that and I'll answer your 7 points throughly and thoughtfully.

I never said that there was no benefits from this reform.
That is a benefit.

I know what I said earlier, but this isn't political so I can post. :D

Anyway, savior, you're not seeing the hypocrisy here. You have personal experiences with people on welfare that you are applying to the entire country. You can't do that.

Savior: Everyone who is poor and on welfare is lazy.
Everyone else: That's not true.
Savior: Yes it is, I know, like, 18 people who are on welfare and their lazy as hell.
Everyone else: Than your father, who also could not get a job at one point, must have been lazy.
Savior: NO HE'S MY FATHER YOU'RE AN *******.

Do you not see the hypocrisy in this?

As I said, I have no reason to not believe that the same thing that is happening here is happening somewhere else.

So are you gonna let 7 valid points sit there and show you that this is a bad health care reform or are you gonna keep on b*tching over little things that is irrelevant to the reform like laziness, abortion that I have already said I was wrong over or the opinion that this is Socialist. Nice points bro, you sure have shown me who's boss.

I take that as a yes.

I LOVE how this guy literally cried when someone called his unemployed father lazy, but then turns around and calls someone else unemployed parent lazy XD

My dad refused to get welfare.
He provided for this family to the best of his ability.
You people, who have probably never provided for anyone but have been provided for, are making fun of my dad and using facts that I have stated for at least my area, as an excuse.



So are you going to post anything to prove that lazy people are not on welfare or are you going to post something proving my 7 points wrong?