This is how liberty dies!

[SwastikaPyle]

Wait so you're against abortion, something that pretty much only occurs with children who would have a substandard upbringing, yet you do not want them to have the right to free healthcare?

So like, you can't stick a clotheshanger up there to kill the foetus, but you can deny a poorer person healthcare due to lack of private insurance and let them die because they're obviously lazy bottom feeding filth.

Has it ever occurred to you that conservatives will give a person so many rights and so much consideration until it exits a woman's nether regions? He was sacred life in there, now he's a god**** deadbeat lowlife ****ing jobless bum, and everything that's wrong with America.

Life is cheap here in America. It's the living that's expensive - David Cross

 

[rvkevin]

Shut up hippy, that was to give Iraqis the RIGHT TO DEMOCRACY.

Should I move before we invade North Korea then?

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

I don't know what Health Care reform you are talking about Green Kirby but this one provides federal funds (tax payer dollars) for abortion operations.

I'm 99 percent sure that they eliminated any loopholes regarding tax payer money funding abortions.

I understand if you have an opposing viewpoint, but making things up really doesn't help your cause.

 

[GreenKirby]

I don't know what Health Care reform you are talking about Green Kirby but this one provides federal funds (tax payer dollars) for abortion operations.

NO.... THERE.... ISN'T!

This reform is unconstitutional because the Government is forcing the populace to pay for something they do not want to pay for. That is why there are like 13 states rejecting this.

People were also forced to pay taxes for the Iraq War... OOPS.
And government forces people to not possessed weed, a drug less harmful than alcohol.... OOPS!
And you're also forced to to buy car insurance when you get a car. And not everybody live in a small town that has a diameter of 2 miles.
And yet no one complains about those.

75% of the United States says no according to a recent poll. Our representatives did not represent what we wanted. Thus, it is Socialist.

You have no clue what you're talking about. Just because something is unpopular doesn't mean it's socialist.
Also, the majority of Americans still support a public option (which isn't in the bill) So you're right that the reps didn't listen to the people, but you're wrong as to why. lol

Green Kirby, you have made fun of my sources but it is clear to me that you have none and that is why you do not know what you are talking about. If you want to discuss this bill please do not talk about things that people already know about and have known about. Talk about the possible gun taxes or something that others don't know that much about. That way we can all advance our knowledge on the Health Care reform.

ps It states that dangerous people will have an extra tax. People with guns are dangerous.
-NRA

Where does it say THAT in the bill? Show me. Grab the bill (it's easy to find) and SHOW me where it says that there's not only a gun tax but showed that the gun owners are whacky

 

[Melomaniacal]

I don't know what Health Care reform you are talking about Green Kirby but this one provides federal funds (tax payer dollars) for abortion operations.

Blatant. ****ing. Lie.

This reform is unconstitutional because the Government is forcing the populace to pay for something they do not want to pay for. That is why there are like 13 states rejecting this.

The government also forces you to wear seat belts.
Don't you know that every **** time we go to the hospital, our costs are ridiculously high to pay for those that are uninsured. That's why a ****ing band-aid is $50. Have you ever seen a hospital bill?

75% of the United States says no according to a recent poll. Our representatives did not represent what we wanted. Thus, it is Socialist.

Who's poll? Glenn Beck? Please, show me your sources so I can laugh at how terrible they are.
You show me one poll with 75% against it, I can show you another saying the opposite.

That way we can all advance our knowledge on the Health Care reform.

You know, I never thought irony was a physical thing, but I swear to god I can taste it right now.


Please, just back up some of the ridiculous **** your spewing with some legitimate sources, okay?

 

[PassWurD]

People with guns are dangerous.
-NRA

Well they are.

 

[Teran]

No they're not, I heard Cho Sung Hui was pretty chill.

 

[rvkevin]

Well they are.

Why Switzerland Has The Lowest Crime Rate In The World: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nf1OgV449g
"The country has a population of six million, but there are estimated to be at least two million publicly-owned firearms"

I think you're wrong.

 

[GreenKirby]

The Swedes don't cling to their guns like it's a needed growth like Americans does.

 

[jivegamer]

I would've typed a long argument, but crashic and GM Jack really got the point across on the first page. Good job guys !

Saviorslegacy really isn't that radical at all. If you guys think he is, you do not know a true radical rightist. I think there are legitimate concerns about this plan that are important to talk about, but it's not really the death of liberty. Again, I would type more, but my position has basically already been stated by others.

 

[Melomaniacal]

By the way, I'm in the process of searching through the health care bill for any mention of federally funded abortions. Guess how much I found? Huuuuuuur nothing.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/pending-legislation/h.r.-4872

Will edit once I find the information.

Okay, I'm finding a lot on abortion now. Here's a good quote:

"PROHIBITION OF USE OF PUBLIC FUNDS
FOR ABORTION COVERAGE.—An affordability credit
may not be used for payment for services described
in section 222(d)(4)(A)."

...


"USE OF FUNDS.—Funds awarded under a grant
under this section—"

...

"may not be used to provide abortions."

 

[thegreatkazoo]

Jam Stunna wins for JV5ing Savior's argument.

Savior loses for being a fail debater.

He wins, however, for being a smart troll.

On point: As much as I approve of the idea of healthcare for all Americans, I do think the implementation wasn't that great.

 

[saviorslegacy]

alright fine, I am pissed that you made me read some of this again but here you go:
http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3200/text

proof for abortion:
Subtitle F, section 156-157
It also states at Section 124 4, B:
"ABORTIONS FOR WHICH PUBLIC FUNDING IS ALLOWED- The services described in this subparagraph are abortions for which the expenditure of Federal funds appropriated for the Department of Health and Human Services is permitted, based on the law as in effect as of the date that is 6 months before the beginning of the plan year involved."


The War:
It is constitutional to defend freedom. More or less, you kill those who try and kill you. Ever heard of a little event called 9/11? I wrote a whole report for my college on how we should be at war.
BTW, Americans wanted war in 2001. You have to finish what you started when it comes to war, cuz if ya don't the enemy will just kill you laying down.


Guns:
In Chapter 34, h, 1:
"an individual who expresses suicidal or homicidal thoughts or gestures, if determined dangerous to self or others."
A politician said on his cliff notes that I read that this is indirectly referring to fire arms.
(and) no, I could not find that page again. I don't know where to begin to find that. Do you know how many things I have been reading on this? I skipped lunch today so that I may continue reading (I didn't want to go fix it).


Poll:
I googled a poll this time (the last time a friend linked me) and I found varying results. One said that most America doesn't want it, one said that it does and one said we are like 49% and 51%. We cannot debate over poll results if we do not know which one to rely on.


Guns making you dangerous:
I own a gun and so does everyone in my family (for the most part). The only ones that have shot people are the ones that served in a war and they only killed people during that war.


@Vrael:
I am 99% sure that they are sly and will lie.

@That one Russian dude:
lol

I never said that I thought abortion was wrong. It is morally, but it may be a good decision for that person. THAT SAID, I do not want to pay for their abortions.

 

[Pink Reaper]

you know what's really unconstitutional?

Fire Departments.

 

[Teran]

alright fine, I am pissed that you made me read some of this again but here you go:
http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3200/text

proof for abortion:
Subtitle F, section 156-157
It also states at Section 124 4, B:
"ABORTIONS FOR WHICH PUBLIC FUNDING IS ALLOWED- The services described in this subparagraph are abortions for which the expenditure of Federal funds appropriated for the Department of Health and Human Services is permitted, based on the law as in effect as of the date that is 6 months before the beginning of the plan year involved."

What's wrong with slicing up foetuses?

The War:
It is constitutional to defend freedom. I wrote a whole report for my college on how we should be at war.
BTW, Americans wanted war in 2001. You have to finish what you started when it comes to war, cuz if ya don't the enemy will just kill you laying down.

Yeah but some people don't want to pay for it. Plus it really wasn't to defend freedom. Otherwise America would've carpet bombed 3/4 of the globe by now.

Guns:
In Chapter 34, h, 1:
"an individual who expresses suicidal or homicidal thoughts or gestures, if determined dangerous to self or others."
A politician said on his cliff notes that I read that this is indirectly referring to fire arms.
(and) no, I could not find that page again. I don't know where to begin to find that. Do you know how many things I have been reading on this? I skipped lunch today so that I may continue reading (I didn't want to go fix it).

I think firearms are good too.

Guns making you dangerous:
I own a gun and so does everyone in my family (for the most part). The only ones that have shot people are the ones that served in a war and they only killed people during that war.

They only make you more dangerous if you have violent intent. Angry unarmed 20 year old vs angry pensioner with a Colt .45

Yeah I'll go with the 20 year old.

I never said that I thought abortion was wrong. It is morally, but it may be a good decision for that person. THAT SAID, I do not want to pay for their abortions.

Some people think that sex outside of marriage is immoral. Some people think that a man touching a woman he is not married or related to is immoral. Some people think eating animals is immoral.

Morals are relative and entirely arbritary. Nobody cares about them, not even your government. This world is driven by money and power, and you are the pawns they play on the chessboard with your washable brains and their ability to control you with constitution mumbo jumbo and apparent rules of morality.

Get real.

No government cares about you.

You are just a mindless peon to them.

 

[Melomaniacal]

proof for abortion:
Subtitle F, section 156-157
It also states at Section 124 4, B:
"ABORTIONS FOR WHICH PUBLIC FUNDING IS ALLOWED- The services described in this subparagraph are abortions for which the expenditure of Federal funds appropriated for the Department of Health and Human Services is permitted, based on the law as in effect as of the date that is 6 months before the beginning of the plan year involved."

If you understood that it makes it clear that it is not effecting current abortion funding laws, you would understand what those "services described" are. AKA ****, cases where the mother or child are in serious health risks.

I already made a quote, but right above the one you made it says:

"ABORTIONS FOR WHICH PUBLIC FUNDING IS PROHIBITED.—The services described in
this subparagraph are abortions for which the
expenditure of Federal funds appropriated for
the Department of Health and Human Services
is not permitted, based on the law as in effect
as of the date that is 6 months before the
beginning of the plan year involved."

So clearly you're misunderstanding something. Where does it say when public funding is allowed?

I can continue to point out places where it says it will not fund abortions, but it seems that you are actually reading it now. I hope that means you will find it yourself instead of stopping there.

**** it, I don't trust you.

Some more quotes for you:

"5 (a) NO PREEMPTION OF STATE LAWS REGARDING
6 ABORTION.—Nothing in this Act shall be construed to
7 preempt or otherwise have any effect on State laws regard8
ing the prohibition of (or requirement of) coverage, fund9
ing, or procedural requirements on abortions, including
10 parental notification or consent for the performance of an
11 abortion on a minor.
12 (b) NO EFFECT ON FEDERAL LAWS REGARDING
13 ABORTION.—
14 (1) IN GENERAL.—Nothing in this Act shall be
15 construed to have any effect on Federal laws regard16
ing—
17 (A) conscience protection;
18 (B) willingness or refusal to provide abor19
tion; and
20 (C) discrimination on the basis of the will21
ingness or refusal to provide, pay for, cover, or
22 refer for abortion or to provide or participate in
23 training to provide abortion."

Pay very close attention to where it says it will have no effect on the current laws.

And yet I somehow believe you still won't be convinced.

 

[GreenKirby]

Not to mention that the link hasn't been updated since Oct 2009, unless I'm misreading that.

 

[Super_Sonic8677]

Can you find automobile ownership in the constitution? You aren't forced to own a car...

You're aren't forced to live in a house or wear shoes either.

Just sayin

 

[Mic_128]

<table style='font:11px arial; color:#333; background-color:#f5f5f5' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='360' height='353'><tbody><tr style='background-color:#e5e5e5' valign='middle'><td style='padding:2px 1px 0px 5px;'><a target='_blank' style='color:#333; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com'>The Daily Show With Jon Stewart</a></td><td style='padding:2px 5px 0px 5px; text-align:right; font-weight:bold;'>Mon - Thurs 11p / 10c</td></tr><tr style='height:14px;' valign='middle'><td style='padding:2px 1px 0px 5px;' colspan='2'<a target='_blank' style='color:#333; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-february-9-2010/rnc-meeting-in-hawaii'>RNC Meeting in Hawaii<a></td></tr><tr style='height:14px; background-color:#353535' valign='middle'><td colspan='2' style='padding:2px 5px 0px 5px; width:360px; overflow:hidden; text-align:right'><a target='_blank' style='color:#96deff; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/'>www.thedailyshow.com</a></td></tr><tr valign='middle'><td style='padding:0px;' colspan='2'><embed style='display:block' src='http://media.mtvnservices.com/mgidms:itemomedycentral.com:264229' width='360' height='301' type='application/x-shockwave-flash' wmode='window' allowFullscreen='true' flashvars='autoPlay=false' allowscriptaccess='always' allownetworking='all' bgcolor='#000000'></embed></td></tr><tr style='height:18px;' valign='middle'><td style='padding:0px;' colspan='2'><table style='margin:0px; text-alignenter' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='100%' height='100%'><tr valign='middle'><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes'>Daily Show Full Episodes</a></td><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.indecisionforever.com'>Political Humor</a></td><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/videos/tag/health'>Health Care Reform</a></td></tr></table></td></tr></tbody></table>

EDIT: No idea what's with the subarmine picture (not in the video at all) but watch the video.

 

[john!]

oh my goodness this topic has gotten a lot of replies in a single day, well done legacy

 

[Ciggs]

lol. money. jobs.

 

[GreenKirby]

^Wow! Nice anecdotal evidence. You judge an entire class based on a few people.

Why am I not surprised that this is somehow not considered a fallacy?

Edit: REAL ballsy suddenly editing your post that exposed your ignorance. =/

 

[Melomaniacal]

Not to mention that the link hasn't been updated since Oct 2009, unless I'm misreading that.

http://docs.house.gov/rules/health/111_ahcaa.pdf
Is more recent and official.

 

[cutter]

The War:
It is constitutional to defend freedom. More or less, you kill those who try and kill you. Ever heard of a little event called 9/11? I wrote a whole report for my college on how we should be at war.
BTW, Americans wanted war in 2001. You have to finish what you started when it comes to war, cuz if ya don't the enemy will just kill you laying down.

Since when was Iraq related to Al-Qaeda? The people who are against the Iraq war aren't against it simply because they don't like war. They just don't like pointless wars.

 

[highfive]

The War:
It is constitutional to defend freedom. More or less, you kill those who try and kill you. Ever heard of a little event called 9/11? I wrote a whole report for my college on how we should be at war.
BTW, Americans wanted war in 2001. You have to finish what you started when it comes to war, cuz if ya don't the enemy will just kill you laying down.

How can you win a war against someone you can't see? How can you win a war against an idea? Tell me you that, Mr. college.

You know what killed liberty? Palin. Get at me.

 

[SwastikaPyle]

Why Switzerland Has The Lowest Crime Rate In The World: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nf1OgV449g
"The country has a population of six million, but there are estimated to be at least two million publicly-owned firearms"

I think you're wrong.

The swedes are required to keep their weapons at home instead of carrying them like around like a third arm the way us patriots do.

 

[SwastikaPyle]

Guys HE IS TROLLING YOU

He is NOT serious. He is trying to make your guys' heads explode with rage because of how funny it is to him. Apparently working.

 

[Insetick]

Politics works better when it's less ideological and more pragmatic.

 

[highfive]

>.>

Savior is a troll? I thought he was a writer.

 

[SwastikaPyle]

RANDOM GIANT VIDEO CODE







EDIT: No idea what's with the subarmine picture (not in the video at all) but watch the video.

Oh jesus christ, when year was this taken? This is the only video so far in 2010 that has made me spit laughter out instead of just laughing normally.

 

[GreenKirby]

Guys HE IS TROLLING YOU

He is NOT serious. He is trying to make your guys' heads explode with rage because of how funny it is to him. Apparently working.

Well considering that it's not uncommon to find people who believe what he says, it's hard tell the difference between guys trolling as ultraconservatives and people are actually ultraconservatives

 

[saviorslegacy]

>.>

Savior is a troll? I thought he was a writer.

I am soooooo surprised that you know that.

 

[Mota]

Mmm Natalie Portman

 

[LordoftheMorning]

I support savior's claim.

 

[SuperBowser]

What? Of poorly-based lies?

 

[PEEF!]

Savior, if you want to be a real patriot, stop driving on our 100% socialist roads.

Thought so.

You are an ignorant Glenn beck- watcher that thinks it's cool to say socialism and scare yourself and others. if you really think socialized (government controlled and publically funded) stuff is a destruction of America, you might want to look into the part of the Constitution that says that the government can set up publically funded and government controlled post offices. Article 1, Section 8, Clause 7. You probably don't have a Constitution to refer to, but in case you did that reference makes me feel better.

 

[CRASHiC]

I never said that the Government cant do anything right.
Socialism in medicine, however, is against the foundation of this nation. If you think socialism in anything in this country is right, then stop calling yourself American and refer to friends as comrad.

First off, I want you to point out to me exactly what is socialist about this bill. Please point to me one new type of government agency that interacts directly with the economy providing a good or service. There isn't one.
Secondly, and actually, the constitution does allow, and to some extent REQUIRES socialist behaviors on part of the government, such as the requirement for socialized post offices.

 

[saviorslegacy]

You are forced to pay large sums of money to support people you do not want to support.

Now let me ask you something, all of you.
Do you like the idea that all of this money, these billions of dollars are going to be coming from you and the rest of the populace? I do not seem to enjoy the fact that I know PLENTY (like 10 or more families!) of people who are on welfare and do NOT need it. I know 2 families that do need it. Those 10 families are riding on the Government, because they are lazy.

*where I live has the most welfare people in my state

 

[OFY]

Forcing health care upon American citizens and penalizing them for not using it is unconstitutional and absurd.

Also, like other government run programs like (Social Security, USPS, Medicare,etc.) this health care reform will spiral into setting our country back in much much debt.

If you are a large employer (defined as at least 101 employees) and you do not want to provide health insurance to your employee, then you will pay a $750 fine per employee (It could be $2,000 to $3,000 under the reconciliation changes). (Section 1513)

^Expect some downsizing by a lot of companies. This bill is very ridiculous.

 

[saviorslegacy]

That is why it is unconstitutional and that is why like 13 states are banning this in their state. My state is at a 9 9 right now so someone has to buy someone out.
On top of down sizing companies AND outrageous taxes, no one will be able to pay and live at the same time. If you do not pay, it is jail for you.

Now do you see why it is unconstitutional? Ophy brought up some things that I had forgotten (the employer fee), so thanks.

Where does this put? The second Great Depression.
We are living it.