The Unity Ruleset: Discussion

[~ Gheb ~]

But your first point is pretty lolzy anyway, "closer to the death zone, so it isn't a better position?" xD That's just dumb. Position isn't just where you are on the stage, it also factors in who you are, who your opponent is and what you are doing. It's position as in "status" rather than position as in "location".

> find some less important sub-clause you don't agree with
> "zomfg ur whole point is 4 teh lulz anywayz oloolol lololol"

Congrats, you have successfully strawmanned my argument for the 2nd time in a row. Feeling proud yet?

Who are you again?

Somebody who attends tourneys in a competent region with increasing success. I don't call somebody a "nobody" when he isn't a nobody.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

> find some less important sub-clause you don't agree with
> "zomfg ur whole point is 4 teh lulz anywayz oloolol lololol"

Congrats, you have successfully strawmanned my argument for the 2nd time in a row. Feeling proud yet?

I'm not doing it intentionally.

The line where you said that "it's stalling because they're close to the blast-zone" was your entire support for differentiating "camping" and "planking".

I countered that, and I don't see any other reason (from your post) to treat Marth's planking any differently to Ice Climbers hiding behind Blizzards or Snake hiding behind tilts.

Somebody who attends tourneys in a competent region with increasing success. I don't call somebody a "nobody" when he isn't a nobody.

Don't kid yourself, no one has heard of you outside your region or these boards. The same applies to me.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

The line where you said that "it's stalling because they're close to the blast-zone"

Problem - I never said this!

Don't kid yourself, no one has heard of you outside your region or these boards. The same applies to me.

Define region? Most people from america don't know a lot of european players. Within europe I'm quite well known.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

They can not attack a character from far away so the "better position" argument holds no truth [since when is being closer to the death zone the superior position?]

And I am well known in Australia. Again, not that our notoriety matters.

At all.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

So how do you draw the connection from that quote to "it's stalling because you're close to the blastzone"?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

- Characters whose planking only serves for stalling purposes.

Here you mention stalling.

They can not attack a character from far away

Better position != Offensive position.

so the "better position" argument holds no truth

Attempting to counter a common argument using either the preceding (countered above) or following (countered earlier) sentence

[since when is being closer to the death zone the superior position?]

As I already said, "status" position not "location" position.

 

[MK26]

gheb, say an ics player is simply hiding behind a desyched wall of blizzards against a dorf. Ganon can't get through this at all. Doing this is essentially 'attacking while remaining unattackable', as you mention in your second point. Does this mean we should put a blizzard limit on the climbers to stop them from stalling the clock with this tactic?

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

um. i don't get where you mad that connection, seeing as how his "closer to the death zone" quote was just a random thrown in one liner that sounded kind of like just a joke. his point is that planking for some characters ONLY has the point and ability to time people out (insert said characters), and has absolutely no other purpose.

his other point being that planking is more of a legitimate position and tactic for other characters (insert said characters) since they can force an approach even from the ledge and thus has more depth than just timing out as it can be used both offensively and defensively and gives them simply a superior advantage when fighting certain characters as they can mix up there tactics even from ledge to rack damage and even kill.

what is so hard to get about that? just take out the one liner from his statement and read it again (besides i think the one liner is in parenthesis and normal grammar says something in parenthesis can be ignored and not change sentence structure-definition #2)

 

[King Funk]

I'm still confused as to why you allow BOTH Rainbow Cruise and Brinstar.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

gheb, say an ics player is simply hiding behind a desyched wall of blizzards against a dorf. Ganon can't get through this at all. Doing this is essentially 'attacking while remaining unattackable', as you mention in your second point. Does this mean we should put a blizzard limit on the climbers to stop them from stalling the clock with this tactic?

Thanks MK, the discussion was going off-topic due to me being autistic while reading Gheb's post xD

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

edit:

there, that was all the time you had to respond

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

Originally Posted by Nidtendofreak
And I can strike FD, SV, and BF just to watch the other guy give me a rather puzzled look! :D
I lol'd and I will be doing this also. Good ruleset..outside of Brinstar/Rainbow.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

you live solely to make pointless arguments and drag them out grim, at least that is so far all i've EVER seen you do on here with the exception of like 2 times

I have a habit of trying to avoid letting others feel like they are right when they aren't in debates, even when it's a meaningless point.

So yeah, I do drag out debates a lot.

Hooooooowever, I am also pretty amazing, quite often right and not stubborn enough to continue chasing a point when I realize I'm wrong, so it's all good in the end.

Edit in response to your edit: "You're too slow!"

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

All brawl sets will now take about 2-5 minutes longer now.

Just sayin

Do you need like, 10 minutes to strike each round?

Imo they can reach at least Germany if they finally get rid of the last remaining broken stages in their list - namely Brinstar and Rainbow Cruise.

ASDIF$(#*FH#JGJ#

STOP SAYING THAAAAAT

- Characters whose planking only serves for stalling purposes. They can not attack a character from far away so the "better position" argument holds no truth [since when is being closer to the death zone the superior position?] and they can't hope to achieve anything by planking other than to abuse their invincibility to stay not attackable. They should have a limit of 30 LGs [MK, DK, Bowser, Marth, GW]

A position where you are at an extreme defensive advantage and have the lead is a better position.

Finally, I'd like to make the request that the committée starts discussing the advantages of a 10 minute timer and takes it into serious consideration as an option for the future. People who agree with this movement should echo this request!

This honestly doesn't seem like a bad idea.

...For once, an idea coming from gheb that I approve of! Holy **** the world is gonna end!

I'm still confused as to why you allow BOTH Rainbow Cruise and Brinstar.

Because neither stage is broken or overcentralizing. And because even if it were the case that one of them needed to be banned, there is still a better solution that doesn't involve dropping viable stages: two stage bans.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Rainbow cruise is overcentralizing. If you don't ban it, your opponent could (should) just go MK and take you there for game 2. I'm not sure how that doesn't make it over-centralizing.

Regardless, most stages are banned or allowed by the BBR-RC only because they enjoy or don't enjoy playing there. There's no mission statement with regards to stages (which I'd really like to see) because there basically isn't one. BPC, your fervent, passionate arguments are ideological when there really isn't any ideology or science behind these decisions. They're just voting.

With that said, I hate RC and Brinstar a lot.

 

[MK26]

bpc, no need for the rage against browny

just leave it as 'wtf are you talking about?'

because at first i thought he was referring to japes/greens/norfair being very stallable stages...but now im unsure

but either way, chill lol

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Especially since he used to live in the same state as Ghost and I...

Well, either players in your region are too stupid to hold a controller, or you're just talking out of your ***.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Rainbow cruise is overcentralizing. If you don't ban it, your opponent could (should) just go MK and take you there for game 2. I'm not sure how that doesn't make it over-centralizing.

On any stage except FD, you should go MK. You're at an advantage in basically everything except a handful of characters on their best counterpicks.

There are a wide variety of characters who actually prefer stages like Brinstar and RC against MK, and a very large number of characters who, at the very least, do decently against him (Ness, Lucas, Link, and Toon Link all love Brinstar, Sonic, G&W, ZSS, and Pikachu fare moderately well on RC, etc.).

But even if the above statement didn't matter, the problem is still not the stages. MK breaks the counterpick system. We get that. For some reason, we're not addressing the problem in any other way beyond the one which is not only the most obvious, but that removes two of the most interesting stages we have. **** THAT ****. Two stage bans, people. Come on. SO MUCH BETTER.

With that said, I hate RC and Brinstar a lot.

I think I don't like you any more

 

[san.]

What is wrong about Brinstar/RC other than a few characters are good on it? A few characters are good on FD and BF, too..

Brinstar, the only complaint I can think of is static sharking, but sharking was never established as particularly broken, and many stages allow temporary sharking.

 

[Juushichi]

Doesnt rob also like RC when MK isn't involved? Kinda sure D3 does or would too.

Mario likes Brinstar, and I'm sure a lot of others do too.

I do hope that there is more consideration for two stage bans as well as a 10 minute timer.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Also, just so that people don't get me wrong... I do see the potential issue with RC/Brinstar both legal. I just don't see it as a huge deal and don't think that banning one or both of the stages is the best solution.

 

[Tin Man]

I'm still confused as to why you allow BOTH Rainbow Cruise and Brinstar.

Well correct me if I'm wrong but the reason to remove one of the 2 is that it gives characters like MK a counter picking advantage. Well rules shouldn't be placed into the game in order to buff or nerf characters. Hence why the ledge grab limit is somewhat iffy.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Well correct me if I'm wrong but the reason to remove one of the 2 is that it gives characters like MK a counter picking advantage. Well rules shouldn't be placed into the game in order to buff or nerf characters. Hence why the ledge grab limit is somewhat iffy.

One could argue that they are inherently broken with or without MK.

 

[Yikarur]

2 Stage bans doesn't solve anything.
RC and Brinstar are broken with MK.
You are NEVER EVER allowed to counterpick Brinstar (RC is less extreme I think) because you could encounter a pocket MK and gets *****.
Thats the problem.
I LOVE Brinstar, I really like playing there, but I'm never ever allowed to counterpick it because my opponent could just go MK.
Thats so stupid :/

 

[MK26]

'i love playing on final d but i think my opponent has a pocket ics, so cping there is probably a bad idea'

and 2 stage bans does solve the rc/brinstar dilemma, actually. Two near-instant-win stages, two bans. Wheres the problem?

 

[T-block]

I challenge ALL of you to remove the word "overcentralizing" from your vocabulary when posting here. It's been so overused it's lost its meaning. You can ALWAYS find a different way to express your thoughts instead of using that word.

Gheb, I would love to hear how you think these stages are inherently broken.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Didn't one of the BBC-R members say that they would never ban both Brinstar and RC? Or was it never ban either one of those stages? I don't feel like trying to search through this topic for that post, both words come up too frequently.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Gheb, I would love to hear how you think these stages are inherently broken.

Get on Skype, I will NOT explain here with BPC around. He knows my opinion on it and has no legitimate counter-argument which is why he tries to discredit me constantly. And I don't really want to have the same debate all over again but I can tell you in private easily.

 

[WindMajor]

I'm pretty sure that they said something among those lines, Nidtendofreak.

T-Block, neither stage on their own are broken in the slightest. Metaknight is just a broken piece of **** and is good on both Brinstar and Rainbow Cruise (along with the rest of the stage list), which is an quality that a lot of the characters that normally do well against MK don't share (For example: Diddy, Snake, Falco, Olimar, etc.). This isn't the only problem, but it's one of the many things that influence people's opinions.

Not that I needed to tell you that or anything, I just felt like writing it.

 

[T-block]

lol... well, I appreciate it, Twinkie =P

Get on Skype, I will NOT explain here with BPC around. He knows my opinion on it and has no legitimate counter-argument which is why he tries to discredit me constantly. And I don't really want to have the same debate all over again but I can tell you in private easily.

Is it that hard to just ignore what he says? =P

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I don't support PTAD.

As for questions, does the BBR-RC think they can reach out to Europe and other out of the country areas?

We have plans to reach out to Canada and other North American countries. Europe is a possibility but in all honesty, that would take a while. Our scenes and rulesets and drastically different at the moment. Its a possibility though and we're going to go as far as we can with this.

Didn't one of the BBC-R members say that they would never ban both Brinstar and RC? Or was it never ban either one of those stages? I don't feel like trying to search through this topic for that post, both words come up too frequently.

Our individual views on those stages vary greatly between members personally. I remember someone saying it during the live discussion we had a long time ago but not sure about the boards.

@Gheb and Grim: For future reference, your infamy is completely irrelevant to this discussion. Please keep those kinds of qualms between yourself. Thanks.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Yeah, as I said before (Thank you for remembering people) we will never ban Brinstar OR Rainbow Cruise. I am of the opinion that we will ban MK before we ban those stages because there is NOTHING WRONG WITH THOSE STAGES! There are a few glitches on RC and that's it for their bad layout. So please, stop complaining. Just because Strife took Brinstar out of his ruleset doesn't mean it was actually a good idea, he was just trying to appeal to the OOC crowd, which as of now isn't our objective. We want to make a solid ruleset before we start reaching out and trying to incorporate other countries (I think).

I'll bring up the 10 minute timer

I'm not going to bring up the discussion of LGLs again.

 

[Yikarur]

9 minute timer is cooler because you can say 3 minutes per stock :D

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Yeah, as I said before (Thank you for remembering people) we will never ban Brinstar OR Rainbow Cruise. I am of the opinion that we will ban MK before we ban those stages because there is NOTHING WRONG WITH THOSE STAGES! There are a few glitches on RC and that's it for their bad layout. So please, stop complaining. Just because Strife took Brinstar out of his ruleset doesn't mean it was actually a good idea, he was just trying to appeal to the OOC crowd, which as of now isn't our objective. We want to make a solid ruleset before we start reaching out and trying to incorporate other countries (I think).

Thank you. Now we can avoid having that particular pointless discussion again. Stop asking for these stages to be removed people, start asking about things that actually have a chance of happening.

 

[Yikarur]

Thank you. Now we can avoid having that particular pointless discussion again. Stop asking for these stages to be removed people, start asking about things that actually have a chance of happening.

ban MK?

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

ban MK?

I see what you did there...

 

[DRDN]

I think you should have all the stuff you change from each version in bold or a different color

lets get JJ back as a CP it was so good

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Why is RC still legal???

http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=107313

 

[Alphicans]

Uggghh... All is brawl.

 

[T-block]

lol... Jebus with his infallible logic and compelling evidence.