The Unity Ruleset: Discussion

[Maharba the Mystic]

i play pit bro. i know how much planking effects MUs. if pit had no lgl he would beat wario +2 instead of losing -2. diddy would get *****, falco, etc. i could go on all day about how much one tactic can change a MU. trust me, i know that.

 

[UberMario]

I haven't been paying attention to this thread too much, so when did Pictochat finally get placed in the banned list?

 

[Player-1]

Why doesnt AiB ladder use Unity ruleS?

Maybe it would be a good idea to ask this on AiB....?

 

[AlphaZealot]

Update to the ruleset coming tomorrow at Noon. It will be the last update until after Genesis.

Tesh: Online play and offline play are completely different beasts. This is the Unity of live tournament hosts, it doesn't really have much to do with online play, and the people who run live tournaments are not really an authority on what the best rules are for online play, are they?

 

[Tesh]

I thought AiB was officially on board with Unity though? cockblocking tournament coverage and all. Online competitive play isn't different on THAT level. Ps2 isn't sudden not okay online and Pictochat and Japes aren't suddenly okay because of lag.

 

[san.]

Nice, AZ. Glad to see updates occur regularly.

It's up to AiB to decide what it wants to do.

 

[AlphaZealot]

Tesh: at no point have we ever announced that the ladder play on AiB would fall under the Unity Ruleset. What you are missing is that the people who play online may not necessarily be the same people who play offline, and the online community may have different values than the offline community. We have mentioned the coverage/featured tournaments/etc. Not the ladder ruleset because it falls into a different realm. AiB is officially on board.

 

[Tesh]

And the people who play in Virginia may not necessarily be the same people who play in California. Different regions ALSO have different values.

Alot of players start off on wifi. If this is the official ruleset of our community, why should online be different in a way we can control?

 

[Player-1]

I don't see why you just don't ask Nealdt...

 

[AlphaZealot]

Tesh: wifi IS different. There are a lot of things on wifi that will not be able to 100% match the Unity Ruleset because there are different constraints for playing online than offline. The Unity ruleset is made for offline play by offline TOs.

Next I'd bet you want us to think about online play when we make a tier list? The realms should be kept separate, I'm not against the online rules using mostly unity (whatever they could reasonably match up) but I'm not about to push for something that I think is in a completely different realm/space than what the goal of the Unity Ruleset is.

 

[Tesh]

What differences between wifi and offline have anything to do with stagelists?

 

[AlphaZealot]

So you only want online play to use the Unity Stagelist and not the full ruleset...which basically is the same as not using unity still.

 

[Tesh]

unity ruleset is basically the same as online ruleset anyway

they had a dishonor system long ago that already banned players for doing disrespectful stuff. unity doesnt have much else special.

 

[WindMajor]

I'm predicting that we're getting both more starters and more counterpicks, namely Pirate Ship, but if not, then Jungle Japes.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

that's suprising. pirate ship over japes, norfair, and ggs. im astonished. not in a bad way, i just didn't see that coming at all

 

[z00ted]

Okay, it's time to re-discuss the banning of .

 

[Kantrip]

There is a Ledge Grab Limit of 35 for Meta Knight and 50 for all other characters. If a game goes to time and one player goes over the Ledge Grab Limit for their character, they will automatically lose the game. If both players exceed their Ledge Grab Limit, then this rule is ignored.

Does this mean that if one of the players actually wins the match, the LGL doesn't apply?

 

[T-block]

That is correct.

 

[Kantrip]

Well then, why is there worry about Pit? If you know you could legitamitely win a match if you had free reign without worry on the ledge, go for it! Exceed that LGL all you want and kill your opponent! Unless by "Pit would be better without a LGL", it is actually meant that "Pit is really good at timing opponents out by planking".

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

not so much that as people would then time you out whether they are losing or not as soon as you exceed the lgl and thus wat went from pit being in a good position against like wario, (which is a match that could very well go to time even if pit play normal defensive play) who can pretty much just run away and circle camp any platform stage, to being timed out and losing even if you were in the lead and actually trying to get the kill in

 

[z00ted]

Okay, it's time to re-discuss the banning of .

 

[Javix]

Okay, it's time to re-discuss the banning of .

I went ahead and fixed that for you, since I'm such a nice guy.

 

[Life]

Methinks AZ just dodged Tesh's question.

 

[Sinister Slush]

The Truth hurts.

All I hope for is more Stages instead of always ending up on SV or just A CP the opponents pocket MK will take me too. (RC or Delfino)

 

[Tesh]

Methinks AZ just dodged Tesh's question.

Online play at the very least mimics offline play. Its also where alot of players start off and there is no reason to introduce them to something further from the standard than necessary. If AZ honestly has no control over it, thats fine and he should just say that. So far all of his points could easily be applied to a local tournament with a low skill level.

 

[z00ted]

Online play at the very least mimics offline play. Its also where alot of players start off and there is no reason to introduce them to something further from the standard than necessary. If AZ honestly has no control over it, thats fine and he should just say that. So far all of his points could easily be applied to a local tournament with a low skill level.

Yeah, I agree with Tesh.

I don't know why AZ is being so rude about it.

If a player is coming from online to offline to play in a tournament, should they have to learn the game all over again? If the "Unity Ruleset" isn't enforced in a "Unified" manner in the smash community - what is the point of having it?

I know that Anti, ADHD, Ally, and myself have all started on wifi. It's sorta of a shock if you go to an offline tournament only to find that all the rules have been changed. Which would decrease attendants in tournaments.

Unify it on AllIsBrawl. Just because you may not respect wifi at your current standpoint AZ, doesn't mean you should just disregard it altogether.

It helps mold and shape players to become what they are today.

 

[Yikarur]

the Unity Ruleset is a Unity Ruleset for US Tournaments.
Don't just say "unify smash community" because that seems not to be the idea behind it (because anything outside US is unaffected)

 

[z00ted]

Before the Unity Ruleset, AllIsBrawl followed the BBR's rulesets to a tee, which was also designed strictly for United States' tournaments.

Why should they stop now?
Just enforce it - it's fairly simple.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

*shrugs* you guys should still talk to Nealdt more than us. I don't think any of the BRC members are powerful mods there...

 

[T-block]

Well then, why is there worry about Pit? If you know you could legitamitely win a match if you had free reign without worry on the ledge, go for it! Exceed that LGL all you want and kill your opponent! Unless by "Pit would be better without a LGL", it is actually meant that "Pit is really good at timing opponents out by planking".

Because once you exceed the LGL, your opponent can now time you out, and he can do so even without the lead. If you see a Pit planking from the beginning of the match, all you need to do is stand on the other side of the stage and not get hit by arrows. Once he exceeds the LGL, he has to come and kill you before the time runs out or he loses.

 

[WindMajor]

Yeah, I agree with Tesh.

I don't know why AZ is being so rude about it.

If a player is coming from online to offline to play in a tournament, should they have to learn the game all over again? If the "Unity Ruleset" isn't enforced in a "Unified" manner in the smash community - what is the point of having it?

I know that Anti, ADHD, Ally, and myself have all started on wifi. It's sorta of a shock if you go to an offline tournament only to find that all the rules have been changed. Which would decrease attendants in tournaments.

Unify it on AllIsBrawl. Just because you may not respect wifi at your current standpoint AZ, doesn't mean you should just disregard it altogether.

It helps mold and shape players to become what they are today.

The thing is that the Unity Ruleset is tailored for offline tournament gameplay, not online. AiB can't just quickly adopt the Unity Ruleset in its purity because there are a lot of rules that don't transfer correctly, and are hard to enforce over a wifi ladder. For one, the yellow/red card system doesn't correctly blend in with the wifi ladder, even though AiB has a very similar system.

I have no idea if there is a ledge grab limit in the wifi ladder, but if there is, how would one reliably enforce it? Same with Metaknight's IDC and any other thing that would require either a photograph or a replay to prove. It's too easy to forge, and it's not reliable, so rules to work with enforceability would have to be added/changed in order to suit the wifi ladder.

Point is that if AiB were to adopt Unity, they wouldn't really be adopting the Unity ruleset, they would only be using a framework of it to create an entirely new ruleset that adjusts for online play. It's not the BRC's area of expertise to create online rulesets, since none of them are online tournament organizers. If you want the ladder to adopt the Unity Ruleset, the BRC aren't the guys you should be badgering to get it on, since they have little to no relation to online play. Like they have been saying, get nealdt from AiB to make the changes, or to at least work with the BRC to get them to help out with the ruleset.

 

[AlphaZealot]

Twinkie hit the nail on the head. It would be impossible for them to adopt the entire ruleset (which I think I already mentioned).

Also, the ruleset has been updated to 1.3, we are switching to a 7 stage starter list, with Castle Siege and Pokemon Stadium 1 being added to the starter list from Counter Pick list.

Starters | Counterpicks
Battlefield|Battleship Halberd
Castle Siege|Brinstar
Final Destination|Delfino Plaza
Lylat Cruise|Pokémon Stadium 2
Pokemon Stadium 1|Rainbow Cruise
Smashville|Frigate Orpheon
Yoshi's Island (Brawl)|

Strike order is: 2-3-1

Again, there will be no further updates until after Genesis II occurs.

 

[John12346]

Yay progress

Hopefully the next update will have some more CP stages, but I like what I see.

 

[Life]

Pretty much what Johnumbers said.

I will wait patiently for Japes' inevitable addition, but I applaud this update.

 

[MK26]

A step in the right direction

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Yay progress

Hopefully the next update will have some more CP stages, but I like what I see.

This.

It's a great step in the right direction.

Now to just switch FD and PS2, add in Japes, GG and Pirate Ship...*rambles on*

 

[T-block]

Props, BRC.

I like the fact that the changes are small actually.

Again, could we get the OP updated for C/P purposes?

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Now we can keep BPC quiet for a while...

 

[san.]

It'd be nice to have some sort of changelog so we can see the progression.

Finally, I can strike FD, SV, and YI:B.

 

[•Col•]

Finally, I can strike FD, SV, and YI:B.

My feelings exactly.