The Unity Ruleset: Discussion

[xDD-Master]

The rule isn't needed at all if the top players wouldnt do such things...
I would say, that the players are the problem, so the players minds should be changed, not the ruleset. But on the other hand, if they aren't willing to change their behaviour of splitting & cheating, this rule & infraction system probably is the best, until they realize how bad their actions were.
People need to realize how really bad cheating is. It destroys everything a competitive community wants: Good matches.
I read people saying that no one was involved other than these 3 guys. Such a bull****. I go to tournaments to play AND to watch good finals live.
Thats were the accountability of the Top Players start. Sure, no one can tell other people what they do and what not. But anyway the Top players need to realize that what they are doing is bad for the community and they should either stop entering tournaments if they want to split anyway or they should stop splitting.
It's sad that they have done it the second time now, after MLG being the first big one.
And in the end, money probably is the biggest reason why this happens. If people aren't adult enough to understand the meaning of money in tournaments, we should probably start playing without money and for appreciation only, which should be what top players should play for in the first place ~

@BPC: Yes.

 

[Orion*]

The amusing thing is that top-level players are already talking about boycotting Unity events. You know what?

Don't even come anymore. No one wants you there, you're like fun vampires. You show up to tournaments and only talk amongst yourselves, in many cases treat your hosts like garbage (regional and national level), hog like 3 TVs for friendlies that no one else is "allowed" to use, seed for your own personal gain because you're the TO's "trusted friends," collude and manipulate brackets, and when it's time to play Grand Finals or Winner's Finals or whatever, the one thing you're even good for, you decide just not to play it because, hey, you and your buddies already decided how to split the money when you were playing friendlies earlier. No need to stress. No need to provide inspiration/entertainment to the people who have jobs and came to the tournament to learn and have fun, and basically footed your bill because you're a bunch of deadbeat losers anyway.

Nah, it's cool. Just stay home. High level players who are accustomed to standards, rules, and ethics set forth by a new Smash community, and who understand why you guys suck, will come forward, and be driven by a love for the game they play and not solely by money.

Man, I WISH you so-called "top level" players wouldn't come, but I know that won't happen, because otherwise you'd have to get a damn job.

(I guess I have to throw up a disclaimer that says this is obviously not aimed at everyone, but I imagine those who read it will know who they are.)

I really think you are exaggerating what's happening, plus you don't know the circumstances... Not that I feel like I should make an excuse for those players, because it's socially acceptable on the east coast there's almost a social standard once you get to a certain skill level.

I can only recall splitting in singles once. Splitting in teams I would do if my partner wasn't interested/didn't think we could win because well... I have no interest in playing with someone who thinks their going to lose lol. I just kinda took the back seat for that I will admit. But for singles the one time I split (I refuse to give names btw) it was actually because someone else bracket manipulated and set it up so that they would cleanly get a free tournament win. And when me and x player realized it, we realized that Losers was setup so that I would lose to him because my record was pretty bad vs that particular player, and then he always lost to the player waiting in GFs. We decided that we would split 1st and 3rd evenly if he forfeited to me and let me play GFs.

Irony in that the player waiting in GFs was so surprised when he found out I "won" and then wanted to split >_>.... I refused and just won lol.

However ever since that tournament. Once or twice I even got countered with the "HEY YOU SPLIT WITH X PLAYER HOW COME YOU WON'T SPLIT WITH ME" whenever I denied splitting. People will dangle your ties/faith/friendship in the community, not just with them but with other players and many times that is negative. And to some degree that is poisonous.

But then other times there's situations like. ADHD/Anti have played GFs 59305834095834 times by now. They are friends. They probably don't care, both are in HS and they just want to move on. It's honestly not like to many players underneath them are putting in work to catch up. Don't say they are because ADHD is actually sloppy as hell right now and still placing. They probably will split. It's not even that much money on the line lol.

To some degree regardless of it's positive or negative, top players are faced with a choice at some point to split, and I do think that people are ******** and do it. But it's just a slippery slope... One player who I actually always looked up to was Ally because he like never split, even at locals. It was always awesome.

Idk I think these kind of matters are best left out of public anyway because I just don't really feel any post can explain this situation, and I don't think anyones going to be happy lol

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

god damn that was a huge read to catch up too.

all i can say is this:

the new infraction shouldn't apply to coaching because there shouldn't be a rule on it anyways as coaching from groups of people is a lot of where match hype comes from (example: "esam he's just doing the same thing too you punish that!," "ally he keeps falling for the same thing, abuse that!" more hype and ooohs and awwwws).

second,
oh look, a new infraction system.... that's cool. looks nice and all. but..... uh..... couldn't you have at least released a replacement stage for picto or raised the lgl on non MKs or something that applied to the game too? i mean don't get me wrong, yay for forcing match hype and all, but seriously give us a stage to test out guys.

 

[AlphaZealot]

It's pretty true, although it isn't always true. A few bad apples, etc. Most of us already know who they are, and I stand by what I said: we'd be better off if they stayed home. Yellow Cards in at least two of these cases didn't go far enough. I've spoken online with at least one prolific TO from a pretty good region who considered placing a ban on at least one of these players specifically before the Yellow Card decision last night, and he's right.

Almost everyone I talked to thought MLG Dallas was one of the best tournaments ever...

Who was missing?

There is definitely some truth to it. If the top players are just going to deprive everyone of finals, sandbag, screw over other players (Dabuz was intentionally screwed because M2K knew he would get a split w/Anti and ADHD before he played Dabuz), etc then really it is better off not having them at a tournament.

To many people lately have forgotten what the purpose of a tournament is: to find out who the best player is on that day and to get as accurate results as possible. I don't want the "best player" coming to my event if he is just going to split the pot with 1, 2, or more players. That is pathetic. You don't even technically know who the best player is because the purpose of the tournament is to find that out, and when everyone is sandbagging and not caring because they agreed to split, then really what was the point of the entire thing?

Also it isn't the winner's money until the tournament finishes, and splitting is colluding with your opponents before you play (and before the tournament finishes) which if I ever see at my events, I'll hand the money to the players below them. Or as I worked to see happen, make sure at the very least the player is banned at the next event (AKA MLG).

second,
oh look, a new infraction system.... that's cool. looks nice and all. but..... uh..... couldn't you have at least released a replacement stage for picto or raised the lgl on non MKs or something that applied to the game too? i mean don't get me wrong, yay for forcing match hype and all, but seriously give us a stage to test out guys.

We updated the stagelist what? 10 days ago? We created the infraction system and responded to the splitting fiasco that happened just 4 days ago in 3 days. Geez. Would you prefer we have not addressed splitting for another week, two, who knows, just so we updated the stagelist/made other changes along with it?

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

meh, i just reallllllly wanna play on norfair in tourney and have people be like, "omg, this stage is soooo much fun!" because quite frankly i know that norfair and japes are the ones with the most attention for discussion and tbh im just being impatient and really wanna play on those stages because i enjoy the hell out of them.

 

[ADHD]

Almost everyone I talked to thought MLG Dallas was one of the best tournaments ever...

Who was missing?

There is definitely some truth to it. If the top players are just going to deprive everyone of finals, sandbag, screw over other players (Dabuz was intentionally screwed because M2K knew he would get a split w/Anti and ADHD before he played Dabuz), etc then really it is better off not having them at a tournament.

Twist the truth more please, he didn't know he would do this until after he beat dabuz.

I might just continue to split in private to spite these rules because it's getting a little bit outrageous.

 

[Orion*]

I might just continue to split in private to spite these rules because it's getting a little bit outrageous.

Honestly splitting should have been done in private in the first place....

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Are you guys done with this unity rule nonsense yet?

 

[MK26]

@adhd: thats the point

split in private, after the tourney

just work hard during it

split during = ruins hype and makes people feel cheated

split after = giving money to a friend, which this rule cant do anything about

 

[-Googs]

speak for yourself kiddo, i've met my fair share of pro peoples, some which you mentioned, which all have been pretty negative experiences. Cept for the Ohioan/Indiana people who are mad chill.

They deserve it definitely. Once you get outside your own little safety circle Googs, you'll begin to realize that this isnt about you and your experiences with these people. Its about how these players are slowing killing the community, taking away the fun aspect of the game whilst rolling a profit off of pot monsters without giving anything back.

No new blood or pot monsters means less attendance and less money pay out. So as long as they keep splitting, keep playing at 50%, the community as a whole suffers for it. No progress is made meta game wise, no one becomes inspired to become better. Its a vicious empty cycle that starts and begins with the pro players really. The weight is more so apon them to quit their shady behavior and play by the rules set forth. As long as they can continue to get away with what they're doing now, no one will win.

ROFL no one will want to because you can just get free winnings for sucking the other guys massive ****.

Leave my inner circle? I LEFT MY ****ING COUNTRY? To play a videogame with over 100 strangers? And 99% of top players all played friendlies, gave me advice, and were more than polite. IF top players are being rude to you, its because your probably trying to meat-ride them or acting like a complete idiot.

 

[Orion*]

Gotta be honest it's not hard to have to good experiences with top players if you have half decent social skills and you don't expect alot from them or something.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I might just continue to split in private to spite these rules because it's getting a little bit outrageous.

1. I don't think anyone expected otherwise and
2. That's the whole point.

 

[-Googs]

Gotta be honest it's not hard to have to good experiences with top players if you have half decent social skills and you don't expect alot from them or something.

That's what i'm saying.

 

[Orion*]

That's what i'm saying.

I know

Just adding my 2 cents hahahaha

@wyatt instead of worrying how to split work on your tech skill so I don't make you look free when I get home

 

[Gnes]

*Remembers when Anti use to rag on me for splitting at hobos

kekeke

 

[phi1ny3]

^LOL

 

[Reizilla]

Almost everyone I talked to thought MLG Dallas was one of the best tournaments ever...

Who was missing?

There is definitely some truth to it. If the top players are just going to deprive everyone of finals, sandbag, screw over other players (Dabuz was intentionally screwed because M2K knew he would get a split w/Anti and ADHD before he played Dabuz), etc then really it is better off not having them at a tournament.

To many people lately have forgotten what the purpose of a tournament is: to find out who the best player is on that day and to get as accurate results as possible. I don't want the "best player" coming to my event if he is just going to split the pot with 1, 2, or more players. That is pathetic. You don't even technically know who the best player is because the purpose of the tournament is to find that out, and when everyone is sandbagging and not caring because they agreed to split, then really what was the point of the entire thing?

Also it isn't the winner's money until the tournament finishes, and splitting is colluding with your opponents before you play (and before the tournament finishes) which if I ever see at my events, I'll hand the money to the players below them. Or as I worked to see happen, make sure at the very least the player is banned at the next event (AKA MLG).



We updated the stagelist what? 10 days ago? We created the infraction system and responded to the splitting fiasco that happened just 4 days ago in 3 days. Geez. Would you prefer we have not addressed splitting for another week, two, who knows, just so we updated the stagelist/made other changes along with it?

Nononononononononononononononono.

You really need to stop spouting your sugar-coated opinions like they're godsend. People said that about ALL of the MLGs. Dallas, likely, because it offered more than any Brawl tournament ever. For the number of selfish people that loved M2K and ADHD not being there, there were just as many that saw it as a lower-quality tournament without two of the top threats there.

And you're right, it isn't the winner's money until their place is decided, but they earn their place during the tournament. If they want to settle for something, they shouldn't be punished. And also, as we learned from Pound V, IT'S NOT THE TO'S MONEY. You have no right to take money from a player that earned it.

Not to mention you don't have any idea of the reason for people splitting half the time.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

But then other times there's situations like. ADHD/Anti have played GFs 59305834095834 times by now. They are friends. They probably don't care, both are in HS and they just want to move on. It's honestly not like to many players underneath them are putting in work to catch up. Don't say they are because ADHD is actually sloppy as hell right now and still placing. They probably will split. It's not even that much money on the line lol.

IMO there is a difference between splitting grand finals and splitting matches before that.

When you split in grand finals, sure, you rob a little hype, but nobody is really severely cheated. At worst the audience, but tbh if it's something like M2K vs. ADHD/Anti vs. ADHD/Dojo vs. Gnes which we've all seen a bajillion and a half times, it's not the end of the world.

When you split/forfeit before all the placings except the two you are fighting for are set, then you influence those placings. As seen at KTAR.

Honestly splitting should have been done in private in the first place....

THIS.

Look, it's funny to say this, but the problems of splitting go away when we don't know about it. No, seriously. It kills hype? Not anymore; the hype is still there if it happens but we don't know. It cheapens competition? Nobody will be able to tell, therefore it is moot.

Are you guys done with this unity rule nonsense yet?

It's actually a really good idea and you're a moron for ignoring it.

 

[Suspect]

You're calling him a moron for having an opinion? LOL

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I do that a lot. Like in the other thread, where I call Lp a moron for claiming that SV and BF are the only competitively valid stages in brawl. ^_^

 

[Suspect]

So seeing as you are a debater, you just call everyone you are debating a moron too?

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Nah, only Dre.


But seriously. Gheb posted a stupid troll post, I gave him a stupid troll answer?

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Nononononononononononononononono.

You really need to stop spouting your sugar-coated opinions like they're godsend. People said that about ALL of the MLGs. Dallas, likely, because it offered more than any Brawl tournament ever. For the number of selfish people that loved M2K and ADHD not being there, there were just as many that saw it as a lower-quality tournament without two of the top threats there.

And you're right, it isn't the winner's money until their place is decided, but they earn their place during the tournament. If they want to settle for something, they shouldn't be punished. And also, as we learned from Pound V, IT'S NOT THE TO'S MONEY. You have no right to take money from a player that earned it.

Not to mention you don't have any idea of the reason for people splitting half the time.

When peoples' spitting begins negatively affecting others (and it has several times throughout the course of this competitive scene) , this is when we have to intervene. Splitting doesn't ALWAYS hurt others, but it can. I don't see why Player A has to get screwed out of 2nd place because Player B can't beat him, so he has Player C do it for him and work out a deal. If Player A isn't involved in this deal then it hurts him and costs him money that he more than likely could have obtained. And people call that a fairly earned placement/payment? I'm not saying either thats EXACTLY what happened at KTAR5 but you get the gist of what I'm trying to say.

Also it's not us who act like our word is omnipotent. We do our best to work with and for the community. But hey we can't make these people care about this card system we're using. We don't have psychic powers like that frankly. But we can stop you from splitting at our tournaments openly.

I might just continue to split in private to spite these rules because it's getting a little bit outrageous.

No offense to you, but I find your splitting and disregard for others to be a bit outrageous as well.

 

[AlphaZealot]

You really need to stop spouting your sugar-coated opinions like they're godsend. People said that about ALL of the MLGs. Dallas, likely, because it offered more than any Brawl tournament ever. For the number of selfish people that loved M2K and ADHD not being there, there were just as many that saw it as a lower-quality tournament without two of the top threats there.

And you're right, it isn't the winner's money until their place is decided, but they earn their place during the tournament. If they want to settle for something, they shouldn't be punished. And also, as we learned from Pound V, IT'S NOT THE TO'S MONEY. You have no right to take money from a player that earned it.

As the TO you have every right to decide how to divvy up the money WHEN A PERSON BREAKS THE RULES. You seem to forget that splitting was banned, and if you break the rules the TO has to make a decision about what to do. That decision could (and should) be giving that money to the people who placed beneath you.

If you were at Dallas you saw a great tournament. Maybe the boo-hooing people on the forums were upset that there were no M2K/ADHD, but why include them when they would just split anyways?

 

[Scatz]

Nononononononononononononononono.

You really need to stop spouting your sugar-coated opinions like they're godsend. People said that about ALL of the MLGs. Dallas, likely, because it offered more than any Brawl tournament ever. For the number of selfish people that loved M2K and ADHD not being there, there were just as many that saw it as a lower-quality tournament without two of the top threats there.

And you're right, it isn't the winner's money until their place is decided, but they earn their place during the tournament. If they want to settle for something, they shouldn't be punished. And also, as we learned from Pound V, IT'S NOT THE TO'S MONEY. You have no right to take money from a player that earned it.

Not to mention you don't have any idea of the reason for people splitting half the time.

Using Pound V as an example for this topic is making your argument a fallcy because Pound V didn't have a player (or players) breaking the rules.

At any rate, players that have gotten that far can just discuss about splitting after the tourney. When they walk away with the money in their hands, there's nothing that can prevent people from doing what they want with the money that they've earned when the tournament is fully completed.. People complaining that this is bull**** and stupid, it's going to keep your "pot fillers" coming to tourneys, which in turns gives you more money. I really don't see how hard it is to give it your all during the tournament and then discuss about splitting after the tourney. Hell, if you want to discuss about splitting, then do it privately, but still give it your all in the matches. It's what your "pot fillers" come to enjoy and see. I don't see why it's that hard to show respect towards the game and the community.

 

[AlphaZealot]

The problem is people don't want to give their money away after the tournament. They want to split before they play in order to stop caring and to manipulate the results via sandbagging.

 

[-Googs]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7AfBiBtaFI
Yellow card for diddy kong

 

[-Ran]

They also make sure to tell everyone they are splitting before hand, in order to make sure that the deal goes through. The more known the split, the stronger the contract becomes between the two players. By making it taboo to talk about, players are going to have to rely on personal relationships for the deals to go through. If a deal goes sour, they are left with no public recourse for the betrayal. This will happen eventually, and I believe it will cause a physical altercation to take place, which will be rather hilarious to watch on Youtube.

Everything we do now, is a matter of the future. Don't think about this in the capacity of just Brawl, but for the next Smash game to be released. We have to clean up our game.

 

[Scatz]

The problem is people don't want to give their money away after the tournament.

That's their problem then lmao.

They also make sure to tell everyone they are splitting before hand, in order to make sure that the deal goes through. The more known the split, the stronger the contract becomes between the two players. By making it taboo to talk about, players are going to have to rely on personal relationships for the deals to go through. If a deal goes sour, they are left with no public recourse for the betrayal. This will happen eventually, and I believe it will cause a physical altercation to take place, which will be rather hilarious to watch on Youtube.

Everything we do now, is a matter of the future. Don't think about this in the capacity of just Brawl, but for the next Smash game to be released. We have to clean up our game.

I didn't say it just for Brawl; it was for all smash (past and future). Players relying on "trust" will probably feel more pressured to agree to a split (I believe something of similar fashion happened at the 8-man Vegas tourney?) since people can just take back their promise and keep the money they've earned for that placing. If they want to resort to physical violence, then that's on them and they'll most likely be punished accordingly (somewhat similar to Noel Brown bionic arming SmoothViper lmao).

 

[Vayseth]

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, not so sure how this is a good idea.

1st of all, 6 months????? What is that? And we're saying ANY tournament that uses the rules can give someone a yellow card? What gives? Who cares if friends wanna split at locals? EVO did it because it was a tournament that gave points to seed the biggest fighting game tournament in the entire world. The possibility of getting a yellow card, that lasts for six months, at a 12-20 person local tournament that just so happens to use the rules has really no purpose.

Maybe if they were national tournaments, with hundreds of people and real stakes, but blanketing this ruling on "EVERY TOURNAMENT EVER OMFG," isn't exactly going to do anything. If anything, players will STILL do it and just not tell anyone. Players might both be nervous and then say, "Hey, wanna split?" and then now that they're not so nervous, they play awesome matches for the pride since money is now off of the table.

Telling Justin Wong he won't be able to enter EVO for rigging the seeding of their event and, "OMG UR BANNED FROM SMASH FOR SPLITTING" are completely different things, especially in terms of scale. It seems like a really stupid rule, and one you'll soon find is IMPOSSIBLE to enforce properly. It'll turn into a lot of "OMG YOU DID THIS, BANNED FROM SMASH", "No I didn't! What are you talking about???" "I'M TELLING SMASHBOARDS ON YOU."

Just a thought.

EDIT: it's kind of effed up that those 3 players are also included in these new rules that DID NOT EXIST before the tournament in question. Unless they did, in which case discard this but if that IS the case, I feel like giving 3 top players a 6-month yellow card for doing something that isn't even a rule is EXTREMELY low. If you want to clean up the image of smash, "making an example" out of your top players is going in the opposite direction.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, not so sure how this is a good idea.

1st of all, 6 months????? What is that? And we're saying ANY tournament that uses the rules can give someone a yellow card? What gives? Who cares if friends wanna split at locals? EVO did it because it was a tournament that gave points to seed the biggest fighting game tournament in the entire world. The possibility of getting a yellow card, that lasts for six months, at a 12-20 person local tournament that just so happens to use the rules has really no purpose.

Maybe if they were national tournaments, with hundreds of people and real stakes, but blanketing this ruling on "EVERY TOURNAMENT EVER OMFG," isn't exactly going to do anything. If anything, players will STILL do it and just not tell anyone. Players might both be nervous and then say, "Hey, wanna split?" and then now that they're not so nervous, they play awesome matches for the pride since money is now off of the table.

Telling Justin Wong he won't be able to enter EVO for rigging the seeding of their event and, "OMG UR BANNED FROM SMASH FOR SPLITTING" are completely different things, especially in terms of scale. It seems like a really stupid rule, and one you'll soon find is IMPOSSIBLE to enforce properly. It'll turn into a lot of "OMG YOU DID THIS, BANNED FROM SMASH", "No I didn't! What are you talking about???" "I'M TELLING SMASHBOARDS ON YOU."

Just a thought.

EDIT: it's kind of effed up that those 3 players are also included in these new rules that DID NOT EXIST before the tournament in question. Unless they did, in which case discard this but if that IS the case, I feel like giving 3 top players a 6-month yellow card for doing something that isn't even a rule is EXTREMELY low. If you want to clean up the image of smash, "making an example" out of your top players is going in the opposite direction.

this is the perfect post for everything that has gone down. i mean really? 6 months? why not like 6 weeks? your taking away from the people who WANT to compete against THESE players too. did you think of it that way? i wanna play m2k in a tourney using these rules, and sooner than 6 months from now that's for damn sure. that's seriously too harsh for something like a video game guys. seriously wtf. smash community integrity or not it is still too harsh imo.

inb4hatespam

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Um...they have a yellow card, not a red card. They have the warning, they aren't banned from Unity tournaments yet. Just saying...

 

[Raziek]

And the rule existed before they did that event. 1.1 explicitly banned bracket manipulation and splitting, IIRC.

 

[Tesh]

Yellow card warning if fine. They will behave for half year at least or they will get banned from alot of events and miss out on ALOT more prize money than splitting at a national.

This punishment is fine imo and you can't just let them get away with it because we all want to see them play. We DO want to watch the pros compete, but no competition lets the pros blatantly take a **** on the fans and keep competing. Potfillers aren't just competitors. They ARE spectators as well. Do you think 2 teams get to work hard until the super bowl and then just mess around in the final games? The fans aren't competing so its none of their business right?

 

[Reizilla]

Tesh, do you not read anything? I already explained all of that. I'll get to other points later, but for now, when is the BBR-RC going to release their discussions on stafes and rules and stuff so that other TOs can see the reasoning behind it and more than just the 2 or 3 that post here?

 

[Bizkit047]

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, not so sure how this is a good idea.

1st of all, 6 months????? What is that? And we're saying ANY tournament that uses the rules can give someone a yellow card? What gives? Who cares if friends wanna split at locals?

I should point out that it was locals where splitting originated, which caused players to not think anything of it when it comes to regional/national tourneys.

As for the rest of your post, a yellow card isn't harsh. It doesn't ban them from going to tourneys, so that doesn't matter. Also, yes, it was a rule before it was changed into an infraction system. It specifically stated that TO would punish splitting/intentional forfeiting, etc.

 

[Gears]

I love how they're saying that if you aren't using the unity ruleset, you can't bring red carded players.

What's stopping anyone from running a tourney with the unity ruleset and allowing red carded players to join? What are you going to do, call the police?

Honestly, so effin ********.

 

[Chuee]

I love how they're saying that if you aren't using the unity ruleset, you can't bring red carded players.

What's stopping anyone from running a tourney with the unity ruleset and allowing red carded players to join? What are you going to do, call the police?

Honestly, so effin ********.

lmao
qft
Honesty, this whole discipline junk sounds really silly.

 

[Flayl]

It makes sense to do this at nationals and large regionals IMO. At other tournaments doesn't matter if they split really.

 

[Browny]

Also,

Once again the 'unity' ruleset succeeds at nothing else than splitting the community.

Call it the 'we tell you whats good for you and if you disagree you are wrong ruleset'