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The Perfect Character

Kofu

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This isn't a discussion about Meta Knight, so if that's what you were looking for, then GET OUT :mad:

Moves are often considered the attribute that makes or breaks a character in Smash. However, a character's attributes- Walk Speed, Air Speed, Fall Speed, and the like- are just as, if not more important to the character. Just think, for a moment, how different certain characters would be if they didn't have the attributes they do.

What if Meta Knight had a better Air Speed or faster Fall Speed?
What if Snake could jump higher?
What if Wario had worse air mobility?
What if Falco's jumps were worse?
What if the Ice Climbers had a better grab range?
What if King Dedede had a worse grab range?
What if Olimar's air speed was worse?
What if Fox's Run Speed was reduced?
What if Luigi had a better Air speed and traction?
What if Jigglypuff was heavier?
What if Wolf's ledge grab range was better and he didn't fall as fast?
What if Bowser's walk speed was improved?
What if Kirby only had two jumps?

Basically, this thread is to see what combination of attributes, from various characters, could be combined to create the greatest character.

Walk Speed-
Dash Speed-
Run Speed-
Turnaround Animation-
Short Hop Height-
Full Hop Height-
Aerial Jump Height-
Number of Jumps-
Air Speed-
Air Speed Acceleration-
Standing Grab-
Dash Grab-
Pivot Grab-
Aerial Grab Release Animation-
Ground Grab Release Animation-
Launch Resistance-
Character Model-
Normal Fall Speed-
Fastfall Speed-
Airdodge-
Forward Roll-
Back Roll-
Spotdodge-
Shield-
Ledge Grab Range-
Ledge Drop-
Ledge Jump-
Ledge Getup-
Ledge Roll

If there's any more that you think of, just tell me- I'll add it.

I understand that some people don't like how characters play because of their attributes, so these "superlatives" aren't, in that regard. It's the combination of attributes that make a (hypothetical) perfect competitive character.
 

Poltergust

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This seems fun.

Walk Speed- Marth
Dash Speed- Fox
Run Speed- Sonic
Turnaround Animation- Squirtle
Short Hop Height- No idea, but not ZSS
Full Hop Height- ZSS XD
Aerial Jump Height- Falco or Yoshi, depends on what you want
Number of Jumps- Meta Knight, Kirby, or Jigglypuff
Air Speed- Yoshi
Air Speed Acceleration- Wario
Grab Range- Is this shield grab or grab range in general? Dedede for the former, ZSS for the latter
Dash Grab- Ness
Pivot Grab- Yoshi
Launch Resistance- DK, with up-B momentum canceling, if applicable
Character Model- Squirtle, I think he's the smallest character in the game...
Normal Fall Speed- Jigglypuff
Fastfall Speed- King Dedede
Airdodge- Meta Knight
Forward Roll- Meta Knight
Back Roll- Lucario
Spotdodge- King Dedede
Shield- Diddy
Ledge Grab Range- Uh... no idea. ZSS if we count tethers, and... Falco if we don't?
Ledge Drop- Pikachu
Ledge Jump- Pikachu
Ledge Getup- Lucas
Ledge Roll- Lucas

Uh, I did it right... right? >.>


:069:
 

Kofu

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Yeah, you did it right.

"Grab Range" wasn't quite the right term, since King Dedede's Grab, in its general usefulness (disregarding his throws) is better than ZSS's due to its sheer range with a lack of lag.
 
Joined
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I think you all should add in a couple of other things as well. If you are going so far as to include pivot grab animations, and such, you should include air-ground release animations as well. Having an air release like wario would be horrible. Also, there are different ledge animations given at 100% and over, or 100% and under.
 

John12346

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Yeah, you did it right.

"Grab Range" wasn't quite the right term, since King Dedede's Grab, in its general usefulness (disregarding his throws) is better than ZSS's due to its sheer range with a lack of lag.
Or, you know, the grab could have ZSS range but come out at the speed of Dedede's grab.
 

Kofu

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I'm mostly going with established values here, since there's a line between "borderline reasonable" (King Dedede's grab range) and "just outright stupid" (ZSS's range on DDD's grab).

Will do, Xeylode.
 

Excellence

Smash Champion
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Walk Speed- Sonic
Dash Speed- Sonic
Run Speed- Sonic
Turnaround Animation- Marth
Short Hop Height- Wario
Full Hop Height- Falco
Aerial Jump Height- Meta Knight
Number of Jumps- 6
Air Speed- Wario
Air Speed Acceleration- Wario
Standing Grab- Dedede
Dash Grab- Wario
Pivot Grab- Dedede
Aerial Grab Release Animation- Marth
Ground Grab Release Animation- Marth
Launch Resistance- Snake
Character Model- Mario
Normal Fall Speed- Yes, like Mario
Fastfall Speed- No.
Airdodge- Wario
Forward Roll- Meta Knight
Back Roll- Meta Knight
Spotdodge- Wario
Shield- Olimar
Ledge Grab Range- Meta Knight
Ledge Drop- Meta KNight
Ledge Jump- Meta Knight
Ledge Getup- Meta KNight
Ledge Roll - Meta knight

Best character ever ^^
 

TheOriginalSmasher

Smash Ace
Joined
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605
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Smashville, Pennsylvania
Walk Speed- Sonic
Dash Speed- Sonic
Run Speed- Sonic
Turnaround Animation- Squirtle
Short Hop Height- Falco
Full Hop Height- Jiggly
Aerial Jump Height- Jiggly
Number of Jumps- w/e Jiggly has
Air Speed- Wario
Air Speed Acceleration- Wario
Standing Grab- Olimar
Dash Grab- Olimar
Pivot Grab- Olimar
Aerial Grab Release Animation- n/a
Ground Grab Release Animation- n/a
Launch Resistance- Ivysaur
Character Model- Pikachu
Normal Fall Speed- Toon Link
Fastfall Speed- Fox
Airdodge- MK
Forward Roll- MK
Back Roll- MK
Spotdodge- MK
Shield- Bowser
Ledge Grab Range- Olimar
Ledge Drop- Pikachu
Ledge Jump- Kirby
Ledge Getup- Kirby
Ledge Roll- Sheik
 

Blacknight99923

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or falcos/diddys/links/toonlinks/ some other character I'm forgeting with their spot-dodge as well
 
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It's worth mentioning that SH and FH size, and I'm sure a few of the others, are entirely moveset-dependent-if you have a lot of super-fast aerials, your shorthop wants to be fairly small; if you're sluggish in the air, a little higher SH is good.
 

Neon9837

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
62
Im gonna add all attacks in the end as well

Walk Speed- marth
Dash Speed-metaknight
Run Speed- sonic
Turnaround Animation-
Short Hop Height- wario
Full Hop Height-wario
Aerial Jump Height- marth
Number of Jumps- 5 mk
Air Speed- wario
Air Speed Acceleration- wario
Standing Grab- donkey kong
Dash Grab- metaknight
Pivot Grab- snake
Aerial Grab Release Animation- marth?
Ground Grab Release Animation- donkey kong (10 frames faster than everyone else)
Launch Resistance- donkey kong
Character Model- squirtle
Normal Fall Speed- wario
Fastfall Speed- fox
Airdodge- wario
Forward Roll- lucario
Back Roll- lucario
Spotdodge- rob
Shield- snake
Ledge Grab Range- mario
Ledge Drop-marth
Ledge Jump- marth
Ledge Getup- donkey kong
Ledge Roll- donkey kong (would work better with smaller frame)

And now for attacks...

Ground

jab- snake
ftilt- snake
dtilt- donkey kong (trips)
utilt- snake
dash attack- snake
(only one character so ic chain grabs dont work)
fthrow- donkey kong (cargo spike)
bthrow- Ness
uthrow- captain falcon (for combos, setups)
dthrow- King Dedede
neutral B- snake
side B- zero suit samus
down B- diddy kong
Up B- meta knight
fsmash- mario
usmash- snake (no pikmin=no olimar)
dsmash- donkey kong (kills fresh around 95)

Aerials
nair- rob
fair- marth
dair- wario
uair-meta knight
bair- Donkey kong
zair- samus

glide toss length- rob (+bananas!)

Hows that for a great character?
 

Steeler

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i think once we come to a sort of consensus on everything, i'll put all these attributes on a squirtle PSA (since his model would be 'the best one' to use) and see how ridiculous it would be
 

Judo777

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Sheiks double jump is the best in the game aside from maybe yoshi. Its the same height as falcos and a little faster.
 

Kofu

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It's worth mentioning that SH and FH size, and I'm sure a few of the others, are entirely moveset-dependent-if you have a lot of super-fast aerials, your shorthop wants to be fairly small; if you're sluggish in the air, a little higher SH is good.
Very true.

Anyway:
Walk Speed- Marth
Dash Speed- Fox
Run Speed- Sonic
Turnaround Animation- Squirtle
Short Hop Height- Diddy
Full Hop Height- Falco
Aerial Jump Height- Mr. Game & Watch
Number of Jumps- 5 aerial
Air Speed- Yoshi
Air Speed Acceleration- Wario
Standing Grab- King Dedede
Dash Grab- Ness Speed, Dedede Range
Pivot Grab- Dedede
Aerial Grab Release Animation- Marth
Ground Grab Release Animation- Donkey Kong
Launch Resistance- Bowser
Character Model- Squirtle
Normal Fall Speed- Jigglypuff
Fastfall Speed- Link
Airdodge- Meta Knight
Forward Roll- Meta Knight
Back Roll- Lucario
Spotdodge- King Dedede
Shield- Diddy
Ledge Grab Range- Jigglypuff? I dunno lol
Ledge Drop- Meta Knight
Ledge Jump- Bowser (seriously)
Ledge Getup- I dunno
Ledge Roll- Similarly

I know Squirtle's pivot is unique, but why? I've never understood this.

And sounds like a fun idea, Steeler. :estatic:
 

Steeler

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I know Squirtle's pivot is unique, but why? I've never understood this.
i think it's because he actually accelerates as he pivots or something

idk all i know is it lets you do CRAZY *** MOTHER****IN STUNTS

WAVESQUIRTING YO MELEE HAS GOT NOTHING ON DIS **** RIGHT HURRRR
 

KuroganeHammer

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Copied this template from a poster above:

jab- Bowser
ftilt- Jigglypuff
dtilt- Mario
utilt- Ganon
dash attack- Charizard
fthrow- Samus
bthrow- Samus
uthrow- Samus
dthrow- Samus
neutral B- Ness
side B- Zelda
down B- Zelda (This allows her to transform into Metaknight)
Up B- Lucario (With half the range)
fsmash- ZSS
usmash-ROB
dsmash- Wario

Aerials
nair- Mario
fair- Zelda
dair- Sheik
uair-Jigglypuff
bair- Bowser
zair- Lucas

Perfect character.
 

Shy Guy 86

Smash Ace
Joined
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Walk Speed- Fox(Same speed as Marth)
Dash Speed- Fox
Run Speed- Sonic
Turnaround Animation- Squirtle?
Short Hop Height- Falco
Full Hop Height- Falco
Aerial Jump Height- Yoshi
Number of Jumps- Kirby
Air Speed- Yoshi
Air Speed Acceleration- wario
Standing Grab- King DeDeDe
Dash Grab- King DeDeDe
Pivot Grab- King DeDeDe
Aerial Grab Release Animation- Marth
Ground Grab Release Animation- Donkey Kong
Launch Resistance- Bowser
Character Model- Squirtle
Normal Fall Speed- Jigglypuff
Fastfall Speed- Link
Airdodge- Meta Knight
Forward Roll- Meta Knight
Back Roll- Lucario
Spotdodge- Falco
Shield- Diddy Kong
Ledge Grab Range- ???
Ledge Drop- Meta Knight
Ledge Jump- Bowser
Ledge Getup- ???
Ledge Roll- ???

Attacks:

Ground:
Jab- Ike
F-Tilt- Snake
D-Tilt- Meta Knight
U-Tilt- Snake
Dash Attack- Ganondorf

Smash Attacks:
F-Smash- Luigi
U-Smash- Fox
D-Smash- Donkey Kong

Grabs:
F-Throw- Donkey Kong
B-throw- Ness
U-Throw- Captain Falcon
D-Throw- King Dedede

Specials:
Neutral B- Captain Falcon Meta Knight
Side B- Mario?
Up B- ROB or Meta Knight(Undecided)
Down B- Diddy Kong


Aerials:
N-Air- Luigi
F-Air- Marth
D-air- Ganondorf
U-Air- Wario
B-Air- Ness
Z-Air- Samus
 

KuroganeHammer

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Meta Knight's up b is the best move in the game.

And Mario's side b isn't great. Zamus' or Falco's would arguably be better. Marth's could be the best.
 

Life

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Here's another to consider: regular dair or fastfalling dair (I'm not sure if it's the right term, but like Sonic/TL's dair)?
 

DaomarIsBear

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Key West, FL
Lemme take a shot at this
(copy and pasted the template from whoever was above)

Walk Speed- Marth
Dash Speed- Fox
Run Speed- Sonic
Turnaround Animation- Squirtle
Short Hop Height- Falco
Full Hop Height- Falco
Aerial Jump Height- Yoshi
Number of Jumps- Jigglypuff
Air Speed- Yoshi
Air Speed Acceleration- Wario
Standing Grab- King DeDeDe
Dash Grab- Metaknight
Pivot Grab- Yoshi
Aerial Grab Release Animation- Marth
Ground Grab Release Animation- Donkey Kong
Launch Resistance- Bowser
Character Model- Squirtle
Normal Fall Speed- Jigglypuff
Fastfall Speed- Fox
Airdodge- Meta Knight
Forward Roll- Meta Knight
Back Roll- Lucario
Spotdodge- D3
Shield- Diddy Kong
Ledge Grab Range- Pikachu
Ledge Drop- Pikachu
Ledge Jump- Bowser
Ledge Getup- Donkey Kong
Ledge Roll- Captain Falcon

Attacks:

Ground:
Jab- Falco
F-Tilt- Snake
D-Tilt- Meta Knight
U-Tilt- Snake
Dash Attack- Ganondorf

Smash Attacks:
F-Smash- Luigi
U-Smash- Fox
D-Smash- ZSS

Grabs:
F-Throw- D3
B-throw- Ness
U-Throw- Lucario
D-Throw- Snake

Specials:
Neutral B- Falco
Side B- Falco
Up B- MetaKnight
Down B- Diddy Kong


Aerials:
N-Air- Luigi
F-Air- Marth
D-air- Metaknight
U-Air- Wario
B-Air- Wolf
Z-Air- Samus
 
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Here's another to consider: regular dair or fastfalling dair (I'm not sure if it's the right term, but like Sonic/TL's dair)?
It's "stall then fall". Depends on the rest of the moveset, really. If you have a decent spike already, then a stall then fall is very valuable (or, you know, you could just take G&W's which is REALLY good)... But MK's dair is just so good that no other dair really compares. Maybe Falco's.
 

PieDisliker

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If anyone has Wario's side B their recovery would be twice as good (or in MK's case 1 1/2x as good.)
 

Luxor

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If anyone has Wario's side B their recovery would be twice as good (or in MK's case worse.)
Fix'd.

Ground:
Jab- Falco
F-Tilt- Snake
D-Tilt- MK
U-Tilt- Snake
Dash Attack- ZSS/Snake

Grab D3
Pivot grab Olimar
Dash grab MK

Smash Attacks:
F-Smash- Luigi/Lucario
U-Smash- Fox
D-Smash- ZSS/MK

Grabs:
F-Throw- Marth
B-throw- Ness
U-Throw- Olimar (purple)
D-Throw- D3/Olimar (white)

Specials:
Neutral B- MK
Side B- Ness/Olimar/Ganon (oh yes)
Up B- MK
Down B- Diddy Kong


Aerials:
N-Air- Marf
F-Air- Marf
D-air- MK
U-Air- ZSS
B-Air- D3
Z-Air- Samus
 

PD4FR

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 11, 2008
Messages
631
Perfect Character:

Up B - MK
Dsmash - MK
Everything Else - Ganondorf with increased priority and speed, while having less cool-down time

Is that reasonable enough?
 

Flayl

Smash Hero
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Copied this template from a poster above:

jab- Bowser
ftilt- Jigglypuff
dtilt- Mario
utilt- Ganon
dash attack- Charizard
fthrow- Samus
bthrow- Samus
uthrow- Samus
dthrow- Samus
neutral B- Ness
side B- Zelda
down B- Zelda (This allows her to transform into Metaknight)
Up B- Lucario (With half the range)
fsmash- ZSS
usmash-ROB
dsmash- Wario

Aerials
nair- Mario
fair- Zelda
dair- Sheik
uair-Jigglypuff
bair- Bowser
zair- Lucas

Perfect character.
Are you implying Bowser's jab and BAir are bad? LOL
 

CRUSH_

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 13, 2008
Messages
66
Walk Speed- Ike
Dash Speed- Captain Falcon
Run Speed- Captain Falcon
Turnaround Animation- Diddy (he changes directions super fast)
Short Hop Height- Ike
Full Hop Height- Ike
Aerial Jump Height- Wario
Number of Jumps- Kirby
Air Speed- Wario
Air Speed Acceleration- no idea
Standing Grab- Charizard
Dash Grab- MK
Pivot Grab- Fox
Aerial Grab Release Animation- dunno
Ground Grab Release Animation- dunno
Launch Resistance- Ike
Character Model- Ike
Normal Fall Speed- Ike
Fastfall Speed- Snake
Airdodge- does it matter?
Forward Roll- don't know
Back Roll- can't tell a good one from a bad one
Spotdodge- Falco
Shield- Bowser
Ledge Grab Range-I didn't know that was character dependent
Ledge Drop- Meta Knight
Ledge Jump-dunno
Ledge Getup- dunno
Ledge Roll- dunno

Attacks:

Ground:
Jab- Ike
F-Tilt- Rob
D-Tilt- Samus
U-Tilt- DDD
Dash Attack- Snake

Smash Attacks:
F-Smash- Lucario
U-Smash- Rob
D-Smash- Falco

Grabs:
F-Throw- Snake
B-throw- DDD
U-Throw- Kirby
D-Throw- Squirtle

Specials:
Neutral B- Falco
Side B- Lucas
Up B- MK
Down B- Pikachu


Aerials:
N-Air- Wario
F-Air- Ike
D-air-Rob
U-Air- Ivysaur
B-Air- Ike
Z-Air- Samus (as if it doesn't go without saying =P )
 

KuroganeHammer

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Are you implying Bowser's jab and BAir are bad? LOL
I've never seen Bowser's bair to really be bad. I can't think of anyone who has a bad bair actually.

And you're right. Bowser's jab isn't worse than MK's.
 
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