The Official "Should/Will Metaknight be banned?" Thread (LISTEN TO THE SBR PODCAST!)

[Jon.777]

yeah ive noticed that as well >_<

meh its obvious he should be banned, that hax'd bat is overprioritized, has almost no lag at all [only on a few attacks], he gimps like a mofo, way too **** fast, and other stuff im too lazy to write XD

his only real downside is that hes really light

still, i doubt the MLG will ban him D:

 

[Salem]

yeah ive noticed that as well >_<

meh its obvious he should be banned, that hax'd bat is overprioritized, has almost no lag at all [only on a few attacks], he gimps like a mofo, way too **** fast, and other stuff im too lazy to write XD

his only real downside is that hes really light

Which I use to counter Metaknight, with others as well, though I never really got to fight a real epic Metaknight online... I seriously wanna fight one...

 

[Jon.777]

you counter him by taking advantage of his weight? if u could do that then PT would be uber since hes got a lightweight middleweight and heavyweight XD

i was just kidding i know u meant that u use powerful characters for quick K.O's which explains why u said u never fought a good MK. MK can easily **** most heavy hitters with his speed

 

[Lord Viper]

Which I use to counter Metaknight, with others as well, though I never really got to fight a real epic Metaknight online... I seriously wanna fight one...

You mean the one's that master the unlimited cape or the one's that know how to time they attacks? But either way, finding a good Meta Knight online isn't easy anymore. =/

 

[Tenki]

Clouderz plays online.
According to him, wifi doesn't affect him much, so I guess if you want a glimpse of what MK can do offline, you can play him.

I can't say much more than that though, since I haven't played against him. ever.

 

[Kookie]

Meta Knight online and Meta Knight offline are two completely different entities.

But I guess that goes for all the characters.

 

[Master Raven]

You can always play me too. >_>

Clouderz is good, but he's an ***, and asking for friendlies from him is... not so easy. Plus he lives like north-western Canada, so you'd lag a bit more often than usual from him.

Meta Knight online and Meta Knight offline are two completely different entities.

But I guess that goes for all the characters.

That depends on the person playing. My offline MK isn't that much different from my online aside from being able to control him better of course.

 

[darkserenade]

Anybody who is against MK being banned is either a.) in the SBR b.)sucks at playing MK c.)never seen a good MK d.)is M2K e.)is a MK mainer. If you're not, you're probably a casual player. Likewise, anybody who mains high tier/top tier and complains should SHUT UP, especially if you can't use advanced techniques for said char. "I only main Snake, it's NOT FAIR! Dash Cancel? BS. Mindgames? BS." SOOO stupid. If you want to beat MK, then get low with the dogs. Too weak-hearted? Don't play him.
I'm really two-sided on this one.

 

[Kookie]

Anybody who is against MK being banned is either a.) in the SBR b.)sucks at playing MK c.)never seen a good MK d.)is M2K e.)is a MK mainer. If you're not, you're probably a casual player. Likewise, anybody who mains high tier/top tier and complains should SHUT UP, especially if you can't use advanced techniques for said char. "I only main Snake, it's NOT FAIR! Dash Cancel? BS. Mindgames? BS." SOOO stupid. If you want to beat MK, then get low with the dogs. Too weak-hearted? Don't play him.
I'm really two-sided on this one.

Generalizing is never really a good thing, you know.

 

[Jon.777]

yes it is....
meta is cheap, ban him

easy

 

[Salem]

Thanks MR, i'll see if this possible later though, I still need to master all of snake's moves before actually going up against any metaknight, I espcially have to figure out the way's of breaking Metaknight's moves, becuase some people think frames are gonna help they're so called metagame... or whatever that is...

 

[Red Exodus]

I just realized most of the people going for the ban haven't even been around before 08. Go figure.

 

[CR4SH]

I just realized most of the people going for the ban haven't even been around before 08. Go figure.

A fairly large majority of the active community on this site are 08ers. And an even larger majority of the brawlers.

That argument doesn't hold any water.

 

[Zankoku]

Yet the majority of them don't attend anything larger than local tournaments and don't have the deep understanding of the game they imply or claim to have.

 

[Red Exodus]

A fairly large majority of the active community on this site are 08ers. And an even larger majority of the brawlers.

That argument doesn't hold any water.

Of course you would say that, you weren't around when people we constantly making futile efforts to ban advanced techniques and trying to convince us to use items.

The majority of the people that would stand against scrubbish bans are long gone and all that's left is the flood of new people wanting to get in on Brawl just because Melee was too hard for them.

 

[CR4SH]

You guys are missing my point entirely. I'm not trying to defend 08ers. If every single 08 member was a dumb**** it wouldn't change my point one bit.

What you said was a majority of anti-metas were 08.

What I said was that a majority of this site was 08.

That basically makes your point moot. Since calling attention to a majority of 08ers anywhere on this site is fairly useless.

 

[Zankoku]

It'd be quite significant in the Melee section of the boards.

 

[Fatmanonice]

yes it is....
meta is cheap, ban him

easy

Define cheap... Playing as Metaknight doesn't guarentee you'll win but it certainly does increase your chances against most characters. Regardless, he's not unstoppable.

 

[CR4SH]

It'd be quite significant in the Melee section of the boards.

Ok, my fault for using hyperbole on the internet.

It's still completely beside the point.

 

[Daimonster]

^^ Fwiw, I understand where your coming from.

 

[LeeHarris]

I created a new account for wifi wars, so I don't count

 

[darkserenade]

Of course you would say that, you weren't around when people we constantly making futile efforts to ban advanced techniques and trying to convince us to use items.

The majority of the people that would stand against scrubbish bans are long gone and all that's left is the flood of new people wanting to get in on Brawl just because Melee was too hard for them.

The majority of MK mainers are against the ban. MOST bottom-tier mainers are long gone and all that's left is the flood of MK and Snake mainers cause mastering suckish characters was too hard for them.

See how moot your logic is? By the way, I speak for myself when I say that I'm pro-Melee and pro-Brawl. We shouldn't have this kind of judgement.

 

[CR4SH]

The majority of MK mainers are against the ban. Bottom-tier mainers are long gone
.

Except for me and....you?

 

[da K.I.D.]

you do realise that theres like 7 sonic mainers that actively participate in this discussion right?

but than again those of us that still play sonic now will never ever quit.

and dont use join date as a means to invalidate someone, its just another form of racism/ageism/classism

im not 08 and i want the ban. how does that work?

 

[Tenki]

and I'm 08 and I'm still impartial/slightly leaning against it for now.

 

[CR4SH]

and I'm a PC, just like B.G.!

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Responce to Tenki -

I'm 08 and I think MK is the BEST character to play as. Personally, I would like MK to not be banned, although you'll see me arguing oddly once in a while - this is because I think it would be best for the metagame if MK had weaknesses, but we can't all get what we want.

So yea, MK is really fun, and I do want him to stay in tourneys, but not because of the specific reasons given in this thread against a ban. If MK stays, I want it to be because it's found (if possible) that he doesn't break the game.

MK for Brawl!

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

Some 06er was talking about how punishable MK's dtilt is you really shouldn't look down on someones opinion just because you see 2008 next to there name.

 

[kupo15]

I feel that all the characters when going for hits play the rock paper scissors game. Mk does not. Mk just says screw that childish game and does what he wants to do. Thats what I feel like when I play Mk instead of my Pit.

Also, if a 2 week old meta player can compete against a different character with months of training and win (easily), this proves that Meta has the most potential and truly shows how broken he is.

He has no bad matchups nor Bad stages.

All (or almost all) of the pros and ppl placing high switched or picked up MK in some way.

Does this convince ppl why a ban is needed? If not, idk what will.

 

[NeoCrono]

Of course you would say that, you weren't around when people we constantly making futile efforts to ban advanced techniques and trying to convince us to use items.

The majority of the people that would stand against scrubbish bans are long gone and all that's left is the flood of new people wanting to get in on Brawl just because Melee was too hard for them.

*Sigh*
For starters, I have been using this site since 07. But I had no internet at my house, so I was reduced to using it in school (we be po black folk) I was pretty good in melee, I love melee. So just because of my join date. I have been stereotyped, and called a scrub. Ouch, but I have been playing melee competitively since 2006. But its all about my join date lol.

 

[OrlanduEX]

I'm surprised this thread is still here. 400 pages? How much is left to say? The general consensus is that MK is either banworthy or borderline banworthy, but the game is too young for us to come to such a drastic conclusion. The thread pretty much ends with that. In a few more months when it becomes clear to everyone that MK is screwing over the metagame, a MK ban across the board will come naturally. This thread has been reduced to just rambling and bickering at this point.

 

[Espy Rose]

In a few more months when it becomes clear to everyone that MK is screwing over the metagame, a MK ban across the board will come naturally. This thread has been reduced to just rambling and bickering at this point.

I'm sorry, but isn't he screwing the metagame over NOW? Why not just ban him, since he's so **** close to teetering over to the ban side?

I mean, he's got no solid counter character/level, has incredibly ease of use, higher level play is nothing but a dream if you don't play him...

Whatever.

 

[Tien2500]

I'm sorry, but isn't he screwing the metagame over NOW? Why not just ban him, since he's so **** close to teetering over to the ban side?

I mean, he's got no solid counter character/level, has incredibly ease of use, higher level play is nothing but a dream if you don't play him...

Whatever.

Because banning a character is fairly serious. Some people still hold out some hope that a counter or two will be found and MK can stay unbanned. Personally I think that unless we find something as big as wavedashing or L-cancelling MK will remain broken.

 

[Napilopez]

I'm sorry, but isn't he screwing the metagame over NOW? Why not just ban him, since he's so **** close to teetering over to the ban side?

I mean, he's got no solid counter character/level, has incredibly ease of use, higher level play is nothing but a dream if you don't play him...

Whatever.

Well I don't think the ease of use argument really applies, although it certainly helps people pick up the character and at least use him as a secondary.

I still think we've given it too little time. He may be messing with the metagame, but whatever way you look at it, its still only 6 months into the game. I've seen arguments about other games banning chars immediately, but I just don't feel like we are in the same situation here.

I think part of the problem is that with the current level of play, most character match-ups are simply not definitive. They may not all change drastically, but I think they will definately change with time. I honestly can't see MK becoming much more dominant than he is now, and I think there is a general, if slow, trend towards several characters being able to deal with MK more easily with the passage of time. Some may disagree, but its just what I'm seeing.

Do I think MK is by far the best char in the game? Yes. Although I have my personal beliefs about snake not being so much behind. Do I think MK has ban-worthy qualities? I think they are arguable, but not set in stone. Which is why I think we need more time.

What I'd like to see an argument on is whats the problem with waiting 6 more months before deciding upon a ban or not? Alot can change in that time. Like umm, the find of ummglidesprinting(lol)? Lol I don't think that would happen, what with so many more people involved in the development in brawl than those involved with melee, but its possible. But that not my point. I just don't see whats wrong with giving it more time, allowing match-ups to develop, tourneys to show more results. Remember that on paper match-ups do not always translate into real life practice, or else certain characters would be performing much worse(*coughSoniccough*)

 

[Luigi player]

It gets really annoying if you play DK...

I lost a 2vs2 match yesterday on Brinstar (DK/Lucas) vs (Diddy/MK).


I usually counterpick Brinstar, because I never lost there (in 1on1s...), but we didn't win in this match.
Why? Because I couldn't do anything the whole match because the MK was ONLY using B all the time.
It was unavoidable for me as DK. I couldn't even shield it (I always got hit out of it if I tried).


That's reason enough for me to want this **** banned >_>

 

[Deleted member]

If MK isn't banned, you may as well throw the counterpick system out the window, with Brawl's competitive scene tethered to it. Meta Knight completely undermines the counter scheme, which is the bread and butter of high-level player. Logically - and we've seen it happen already - every pro- who wants to win will switch to MK, as he has no weaknesses, no counters, no bad stages and a little advantage over every other character. Six months in, nothing relevational has been found on MK that would topple him off the top. Essentially, we're all going to start seeing more MKs at tournaments and less attendants overall, which are the quintessential traits of a plague.

There is no argument to these points other than, 'wait a little longer, wave a magic wand'.

 

[Ryusuta]

One of the main reason I'm not ready to ban Meta Knight just yet is personal, I admit.

I'm a dedicated Yoshi main. And although Meta Knight is still in good position against him, Yoshi is the one character that might give Meta Knight a bead of sweat.

One of the main reasons I've been pushing for improvements in Yoshi's standing on the tier list is because he's the only character (except maybe DK, though that doesn't appear to be the case now) that holds a neutral match-up against Meta Knight, due in large part to his CG to spike/up smash. And now, in addition to the CG and grab-release attacks on Meta Knight, Yoshi also has a couple of contextual INFINITE CGs on him, making counter-picking a very real possibility in the near future. Remove this, and a small but noteworthy argument for Yoshi's improvement on the tier list becomes irrelevant.

On a more practical note, it also severely reduces the possibility of finding similar exploits for other characters against him. Don't get me wrong, I can't say that I'm totally against banning Meta Knight, only because he IS that dangerous, but I think a temporary and/or soft ban would be more appropriate at this point in time.

 

[Napilopez]

Your bring up good points sir Orion. Everyone learning Yoshi to counter MK though would be funny =P. Normally I don't like factoring the ease of use aspect, but in this case it comes into play, as it would be much easier to pick up MK, then learn yoshi to beat MK, unless the advantage becomes like seriously good.

And note, I am against the ban. Just pointing out some stuffies.

 

[Dark Sonic]

I honestly can't see MK becoming much more dominant than he is now, and I think there is a general, if slow, trend towards several characters being able to deal with MK more easily with the passage of time. Some may disagree, but its just what I'm seeing.

The thing is, we're also seeing MK's game improve (at a much more drastic rate might I add), that points to just the opposite happening. MK players just learned how to shut down G&W, the Marth matchup, which was considered even at the start of brawl, is now far in MK's favor (65:35), and Snake (a previous MK counter) is being beaten by a few specific moves. My belief is that the only reason other characters are getting better against MK is because they're simply under the radar so to speak. MK mains are not trying to many new things against them, so you could equate these improvements to simple matchup inexperience on the MKs' part.

Do I think MK is by far the best char in the game? Yes. Although I have my personal beliefs about snake not being so much behind. Do I think MK has ban-worthy qualities? I think they are arguable, but not set in stone. Which is why I think we need more time.

No one thinks he should be banned right now (well, there are a few people, but not the majority). But we still need to have some kind of deadline don't we? Are we going to wait 4 or 5 years to ban MK, when he's hurting the metagame now?

What I'd like to see an argument on is whats the problem with waiting 6 more months before deciding upon a ban or not? Alot can change in that time. Like umm, the find of ummglidesprinting(lol)? Lol I don't think that would happen, what with so many more people involved in the development in brawl than those involved with melee, but its possible. But that not my point. I just don't see whats wrong with giving it more time, allowing match-ups to develop, tourneys to show more results. Remember that on paper match-ups do not always translate into real life practice, or else certain characters would be performing much worse(*coughSoniccough*)

The problem with giving it too much time is that more and more people are switching to MK, and thus developing his metagame, when they could be helping develop the metagames of other characters. And all that effort into developing MK's metagame would just be wasted, since he would eventually get banned anyway, meanwhile he continues to over centralize the metagame and continues to deter players.

Don't think that "giving him more time" is always the best option. I personally believe it's the best option in this case, since there really have been a few discoveries that hurt him a bit (now if only they were on characters that were actually good lol,) but sometimes an early ban can be justified.

 

[Tenki]

The thing is, we're also seeing MK's game improve (at a much more drastic rate might I add), that points to just the opposite happening. MK players just learned how to shut down G&W, the Marth matchup, which was considered even at the start of brawl, is now far in MK's favor (65:35), and Snake (a previous MK counter) is being beaten by a few specific moves. My belief is that the only reason other characters are getting better against MK is because they're simply under the radar so to speak. MK mains are not trying to many new things against them, so you could equate these improvements to simple matchup inexperience on the MKs' part.

You might have missed when a few pages ago a startling majority of the people here realized how evil MK's D-tilt is.

they were like

"OH! SO MK IS EVEN MORE DANGEROUS THAN WE THOUGHT!"